I'm Almost Sorry I Posted Here Today

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I was happy that Hillary won the New Hampshire primary after being wrote off, mocked, and left for politically dead... Then I came hear and read the board and saw several threads implying she stole the election...

It reminds me of the ESPN NBA Board after my favorite basketball team, the Miami Heat, came back from a 2-0 game deficit against the Dallas Mavericks in the 06 NBA Finals...To make it more dramatic the Heat were down double digits in Game Three of the Finals with less than eight minutes left...But they rallied back against insurmountable odds, and against an arguably more talented team to win the championship...

But the Mavericks fans on the ESPN Message Board couldn't accept the outcome...They couldn't attribute it to the Heat's heart and superior play...They had to attribute it to biased refereeing...

It sucked then and it sucks now...

DSB

[Vincardog]

1. And the fact that the votes were counted on Diebold BBV machines had nothing to do with it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. The Actual Results Matched The Exit Polls

How do we verify the actual results then?

[Vincardog]

10. The point is how do you verify anything with The damned paperless monstrosities in the way?

You can not "prove" HRC won when they exit polls match any more than we could prove GB loss when the exit polls did not match.

[Silent3]

35. In my polling place at least, and I'm pretty sure in most of NH...

...tabulation is electronic, but there are still nice big piles of totally-recountable paper ballots. I haven't heard of any paperless system being used anywhere in NH.

[Stewie]

41. There are no paperless machines in New Hampshire

They all use hand ballot or optical scan. There was no fraud, New Hampshire voters just don't like the media telling them who to vote for.

[Vincardog]

48. I am glad there are no paperless machines/ I never said there was fraud.

[danalytical]

9. Give it up

You sound like a whining child.

[Vincardog]

15. And you like having the paperless monsters decide our elections?

What ever problems I might have or not have with HRC's candidacy has nothing to do with my desire to have TRANSPARENT ELECTIONS regardless of the candidates.

[1corona4u]

22. Wait a second....

yesterday, this board was jam packed with post saying that 'NH was running out of ballots'. That would mean that there IS a paper trail, wouldn't you agree??

HELLO???? Reconcile that for me please.

[Vincardog]

24. The use BOTH. Some precincts use paper some use the GD paperless monsters.

In Texas where I am they say they have to use the paperless boxes because it would cost too much to print the ballots.

[1corona4u]

32. So....you're not actually IN new Hampshire....

and have no first hand knowledge....but you're qualified to assess the situation?

[Vincardog]

47. And you are in Florida. Does that imply that you prefer stolen elections?

[rodeodance]

3. whow--great analogy. Thanks

[redqueen]

4. Those refs *were* biased...

In fact... wasn't one of them the guy that got busted for cheating?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. No

He didn't ref any of those games... Referees get to officiate championship games based on seniority...He didn't have seniority...

His cheating was also proven to be random... He was trying to affect the spread not favor this team or that team...

[redqueen]

14. Well I'm from Dallas so...

maybe I was biased in seeing the bias. :P

[murbley40]

29. Would this discussion be taking place if your candidate won?

[redqueen]

31. Yeah, cause I'm not talking about candidates,

I'm talking about that game. :)

[William769]

5. I'm glad you did.

I had not planned on posting much today, but after a couple of threads that I read, I was not going to let stupid shit go unanswered.

[niyad]

6. I was thinking yesterday morning that it would be amusing if the msm were proven wrong and hillary

took NH-- showing that the nomination is NOT a dead cert. was very interested to see the results last night, and very disappointed to see the vitriol in here today. there are seven months to go until the convention, a month until super tuesday. WHY is it assumed that things have to be settled yesterday?

[JackORoses]

7. in fact, this is exactly like the Mavericks vs. Heat affair,

Both were decided by the establishment rather than the players.

But unlike the Mavericks, Obama will not have 4 in a row stolen from him.

Go Mavs!
Gobama!!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Bookmark This Post

The Mavs will not win a championship no matter how much Mark Cuban tries to buy one...

Instead of getting in a pointless argument about my prediction you can just bookmark this post and private message it to me when they win one...

Fair?

[JackORoses]

28. too bad Duane Wade was not quite the 'New MJ' he was expected to be,

or the Heat might still be the League favorite
:)

[hfojvt]

8. "it sucked then and it sucks now"

I agree completely. A Hillary victory sucks and so did the Miami victory then. :P :argh:


As for Hillary being politicall dead, I said a few times that she was hardly even scratched. Evil never dies that easily. Haven't you ever read the Voldemort series?

[KennedyGuy]

11. amazing how quickly hope turns to hatred

anybody who didn't see this coming as soon as Obama lost one hasn't been paying attention.
this reaction was EASILY predictable.

[madinmaryland]

12. I thought the NBA was fixed.

:shrug:

[BootinUp]

16. I just don't take those threads seriously

It takes s a skewed world view and ignorance to always look for or expect hidden conspiracies.

Here is Chomsky discussing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzGd0t8v-d4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoDqDvbgeXM

[stillcool]

23. It takes a skewed world...

and intentional ignorance..to have faith in a system of voting that has proven to be error laden, and incapable of providing verifiable results. There will always be a winner and a loser, but until the vote can be verified as accurate, there will be those that will not accept the results...as in.. 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006..and now in 2008. Nobody gives a shit, until 'their' candidate loses...I so look forward to the general election. It should be a hoot!

[BootinUp]

26. who said I have overwhelming faith in the system?

stop putting words in my mouth Mr. conspiracy.

[stillcool]

33. Mrs. Conspiracy to you...

and I take that as a compliment...I kind of like science and facts. If you doubt the system...in any way...why are you all worked up when someone questions the results...that are not verified?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

[BootinUp]

34. Because errors and flaws in the system

don't equal a grand conspiracy, they equal errors and flaws that occur in a mostly non-uniform manner. Sorry about the Mr. thing.

[stillcool]

36. who said 'Grand Conspiracy"...

either the results are accurate or they are not. Move past Obama. Look at past elections. Look at the result of state elections that have been called into question. Read the scientific reports. Or...just yell conspiracy theorist...whatever...who cares?

[BootinUp]

37. the party and the candidates

participate in the system and agree to abide by the findings and law. If the candidate lodges a formal protest or takes other action following the law, then that is a different matter.

People in cyberspace raising questions about election results that the candidates accept, DO NOT IMPRESS ME.

[stillcool]

38. I don't think anyone is trying to impress "you"

"You" are not obviously not interested in the reliability of our election process. You are obviously not concerned about the numerous attempts and failures of Congress to alleviate the problems inherent in our unique style of computerized voting...and you are obviously perfectly happy to disregard the myriad of problems that still surround the 2006 election. Please, please Ignore.

[BootinUp]

39. You keep jumping to conclusions about

my priorities. There is a process for correcting the problems, crying about your candidates election result when he/she accepts it is not the way.

[stillcool]

44. go back and read again...

[BootinUp]

45. that would be a waste of my time. nt

[stillcool]

46. I agree...

[stillcool]

18. "She stole the election"...

is not the same thing...as are you comfortable with a system of voting, that uses proven.. unreliable unverifiable means of providing results. Think past Obama. Or not. Accept the results of all future elections provided by our error-laden system of voting. It's worked so far.

[HughMoran]

19. I hear ya

I've seen some new new voices here promoting this nonsense. I don't see their nonsense any more ;)

[sam kane]

20. Why trust Diebold?

Why indict people like Bradblog who have worked on the voting machine mess for years as partisan Obama supporters?

The hand count precincts show Obama ahead, Diebold counted Clinton ahead.

I wanted Hillary to win too, after all of the crazy sexist crap in the media, and wish all of NH was hand counted so it wouldn't be an issue. But it is because of Diebold's record. I find it highly doubtful that Clinton's people rigged anything, but the folks who had so much fun in Ohio, etc. have there own interests...

[Stewie]

42. Hand count precincts also tend to be ones where Dean did well against Kerry.

And optical scan precincts tend to be ones where Kerry did well against Dean. The rural north and west (Dean/hand coutn) is more anti-establishment than the more urban south and east (optical scan/Kerry.)

And since the ballot order is randomized throughout the state, how does Diebold rig every machine when they don't even know where Clinton is on the ballot?

[goodgd_yall]

21. Yeah, it's depressing here.

I'm going to sign off soon and take the day off.

[Armstead]

25. The automatic DU reaction for some is conspiracy theories

Some Duers never want to take things at face value...Or else they jump to conclusions without any proof.

I remember when Wellstone died in a plane accident, a distressing number of people immediately assumed he had been assassinated.

[sam kane]

43. Why do you trust Diebold so much? nt

[ihavenobias]

27. I was VERY unhappy that she won *but* at the same time

I don't think fraud had anything to do with it.

And instead of focusing on results we (most of us here at DU) don't like, we should be raising the issue of election fraud *in general* before it's too late in the year!

www.theyoungturks.com

[Dawgs]

30. Dude. Be happy that she win. Your obsession with this non-issue is tiring.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. Dude.Don't Like My Threads ...Don't Click...

Some people must have liked it...It made the greatest page...