Story on Lyndon B. Johnson

[surfermaw]

First I am a Edwards supporter.

But I have lived for a long time..

Lyndon B. Johnson did take office and quickly got legislation past, that Kennedy couldn't...all the things Kennedy wanted, Johnson got passed, how. Johnson had been in politics for many many years and in Washington. He knew about most every thing and every one. The how he got legislation pass so quickly is simple he knew where to twist arms in order to get the votes.

[MonkeyFunk]

1. Yes

Johnson was an arm-twisting, ass-kicking son of a bitch.

[Zynx]

2. The great tragedy about Lyndon Johnson is that if not for Vietnam he would

have been one of our five greatest presidents.

[Cooley Hurd]

3. True...

:(

[surfermaw]

4. He did many fine things...

But he did get the legislation passed, no question on that

[chelsea0011]

8. Well, if not for the fact I don't have a billion dollars means I'm not a billionaire.

Gulf of Tonkin was a bold-faced lie history is treating him just fine.

[MADem]

5. Robert Caro covers the rather interesting evolution of Johnson with regards to Civil Rights

in his MASTER OF THE SENATE opus. Johnson, ironically, was able to seize power by courting the Southern Democrats, who were a bunch of racist fucks (and who, today, would be called Senate Republicans!). For the longest time he upheld the status quo, but when he was finally in a position to really DO something, and he had the votes AND the power to sign the legislation, he stepped up to the plate. He knew, too, that he'd lost the south to the Democratic party for a 'generation' or more.

I love the way people are framing that sentence by Clinton as an either-or situation. The ones who are doing so are NOT students of history, at all. They really need to go back and walk Johnson's path, and pay particular attention to where it converged with MLK's.

Here's a NEWSFLASH--LBJ and MLK used to TALK to one another! They were ON THE SAME TEAM when it came to civil rights!

Such a SHOCK, that!


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/july-dec97/lbj_10-14.html

PHIL PONCE: The first conversation we're going to hear an excerpt from is a conversation between President Johnson and Martin Luther King. Sum it up for us briefly.

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: It's a few days after Johnson became President. There were a lot of people in this country who were very worried about Johnson on civil rights. When he first ran for the Senate in ‘48, he did so as an anti-civil rights candidate, as many did in Texas in those days. And so many black leaders especially worried that when Johnson, the first southern president in all that time, became president, he might not have the kind of commitment to civil rights that John Kennedy had. Here is talking to Martin Luther King, assuring him of his commitment to civil rights.

President Johnson and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.



PRESIDENT JOHNSON: A good many people told me that they heard about your statement. I guess on TV, wasn't it?

MARTIN LUTHER KING: Yes, that's right.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: I've been locked up in this office and haven't seen it, but I want to tell you how grateful I am and how worthy I'm going to try to be of all your hopes.

MARTIN LUTHER KING: Well, thank you very much. I'm so happy to hear that, and I knew that you had just that great spirit. And you know you have our support and backing. We know what a difficult period this is.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: It's just an impossible period. We've got a budget coming up that we've got nothing to do with. It's practically already made. And we've got a civil rights bill that hasn't even passed the House and it's November, and Hubert Humphrey told me yesterday that everybody wanted to go home, and I'm going to ask the Congress Wednesday to just stay there till they pass ‘em all. They won't do it, but we'll just keep them there next year until they do, and we just won't give up an inch.

MARTIN LUTHER KING: Uh-huh. Well, this is mighty fine. I think it's so imperative. I think one of the great tributes that we can pay a memory of President Kennedy is to try to enact some of the great progressive policies that he sought to initiate

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Well, I'm going to support ‘em all, and you can count on that. And I'm going to do my best to get other men to do likewise. I'll have to have you-all's help. And I never needed it more than I do now.

[Cooley Hurd]

6. Robert Caro's books on LBJ are excellent...

...as well as his book on Robert Moses, "The Power Broker.":thumbsup:

[MADem]

7. The guy is a national treasure, IMO. nt

[quickesst]

9. This is what will happen....

Clinton haters, namely Obama supporters, will read this, stare blankly into the void, and continue without missing a step, pushing the race card as far up our asses as humanly possible. Facts are their greatest enemy, as evidenced by their vigorous campaign to distort them. I will add, that despite his supporters doing everything possible to turn me off to Obama, if he is the nominee, I'll be first in line to vote for him. After all, he is a democrat. Thanks.
quickesst

[ellacott]

13. See, this is a major problem we have

We will never get an understanding because we can't talk to each other.

You don't understand the issue because it's you that aren't listening.

What Hillary said was correct nut the important point of this whole mess is what is her point? She was very clumsy with that statement and can at least admit to that.

The OP did a better job of explaining it than the Hillary camp has ever done. It appears that it is not their attempt to clarifiy this issue.

The big issue with her statement is that she said "It takes a President to get it done" could apply to Obama also since he is a serious candidate. What argument is she making? Is she saying only she can do it? Is she saying that Obama could never do it?

Believe me, many blacks have no desire to push the "race card".

[Strawman]

10. Sure, but the Civil Rights movement made it worthwhile for him to do so

He wanted to be seen as a national leader because it was good for his ambitions (rather than a Southern Segregationist), and he was always competing with RFK (read Jeff Shesol's book on this). The pressure back then was coming from LBJ's left. That's because of the Civil Rights movement (which was bigger than just MLK too).

As Robert Caro argues, LBJ's personal ambition paralleled the aim of social justice represented by the Civil Rights movement during the 1960's. If it hadn't, he would have chosen differently. Ambition always won out. The Civil Rights movement even made RFK more liberal. He was a bit late to the cause, but the movement opened his eyes.

I doubt the Clintons were really making the argument that LBJ was essential and that MLK was less essential. I don't think they're that stupid. I think they were probably just trying to say that being a skillful political operator in Washington is underrated and essential. That's a fair argument to make. They just were very clumsy about it.

Can we all just agree that both were essential to progress? It's a stupid argument.

[niceypoo]

11. Hillary was right

It took both the civil rights movement and presidential backing from Johnson to get congress to pass it. Obamas camp wants to make it either or.

[ellacott]

15. That's not true

You all are assuming too much.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

16. she is probably kicking herself for even bringing it up

even though it was an innocent comment

[ellacott]

18. That's how I feel also

She tried to make a point and was very clumsy doing it.

[peoli]

12. Wasnt he in on the JFK assassination?

[no name no slogan]

14. Yeah, he was the trigger man

:sarcasm:

[Zynx]

17. According to conspiracy theorists, who wasn't?