Who won tonight's debate in Las Vegas?

[Renew Deal]

Poll question: Who won tonight's debate in Las Vegas?

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

[ellisonz]

1. Obama by a kilometer.

[dailykoff]

42. That was also my impression.

They made him work harder for it but I get the impression he's used to that.

[maddezmom]

2. WE ALL WON!!

:D

[KathieG]

3. Absolutey!

[HughMoran]

8. Agreed

It was a good debate.

[ncteechur]

27. Absolutely! I think they all did well. I think we are in good shape

no matter who wins the nomination as long as we keep our eye on the ball.

[saltpoint]

4. Sturdy performances all, but The Carolinian shone.

[OzarkDem]

35. Yes, he did

leadership, brains, heart, good ideas and the passion and commitment to see it through without backing down or selling out.

[saltpoint]

40. Hey there, OzarkDem. Very good to see you on the boards tonight.

I hope all's well your way. Happy 2008!

[OzarkDem]

44. You, too!

Back in the trenches again!

[Quixote1818]

5. I support Edwards but I think Obama came out slightly ahead tonight.

Clinton and Edwards tied for second.

[Colobo]

6. Obama won. Clearly and resoundingly.

[Maximus Invictus]

12. Edwards all the way

Obama came in second. He´s starting to clone the Edwards ideas. Jesus, what a "copy paste" guy.

Hillary is calling to 9/11 all the time. Dumb! Bronze medal!

From Europe with love...

[Dem_4_Life]

18. Agreed. Go John!!! nt

[Muttocracy]

7. points to the heckler too! n/t

[Renew Deal]

9. Absolutely!

Thank God for him.

[AX10]

10. Clinton and Edwards did well.

[ShadowLiberal]

11. They all did well, no one won.

[OzarkDem]

13. Edwards and Clinton

as these debates go on, their maturity and experience over Obama really shows.

[Renew Deal]

14. How many positions did Edwards have to apologize for?

I think it was just about everything. What does he stand for?

[OzarkDem]

31. Another stale GOP talking point

Let's see, he hasn't taken cocaine; he hasn't gotten in a big mudslinging fight with his opponent that made them both look like hysterical idiots, he did change his mind about some of his votes in the Senate, but unlike Obama, he owned up to them instead of trying to gloss over them.

[Cha]

17. We all have our different perspectives..

and mine is much different than yours.

[OzarkDem]

32. So be it.

[adabfree]

58. Indeed

Mine too!

[denem]

15. You need a option : The Democratic Party

[IndianaGreen]

16. A bullshit debate with the 3 candidates the corporate media wants us to choose from

Same thing that happens in the grocery story when one sees one's favorite brand disappear from the shelves because the grocer is getting paid by another company to put your brand's competitor on a preferred location in the store.

I won't ever watch another debate this year!

[AntiFascist]

19. Edwards won for Nevada, because...

The middle class predominates, and he is the most pro-middle class.

Against all nuclear power, which plays very well for Yucca mountain.

Was careful to only address assault weapons, instead of addressing "illegal guns" which are very popular in Nevada.

Ending the war and all combat operations can only be good for the Nevada economy. Also, fear mongering keeps people from travelling to the casinos.

[Renew Deal]

20. Edwards has the worst record on Yucca Mtn.

So it's a mess for him.

[AntiFascist]

22. Yucca mountain was solving a very important problem at the time...

but it didn't turn out as planned. He regrets the votes, but one has to look to the future.

[Renew Deal]

23. They care in Nevada.

[AntiFascist]

29. According to Stephens Washington Bureau...

"Sen. Hillary Clinton's commitment to fight Yucca Mountain was challenged Wednesday by a Republican senator who said the Democratic presidential candidate was a no-show for two nuclear waste hearings her committee had last year."

Clinton is the one making an issue out of this.

On edit: dated July 27, 2007

[Tellurian]

45. I have no idea what you're talking about!

Senator Hillary Clinton on Yucca Mtn:

"Clinton has been an opponent, saying at an October Senate hearing that “Yucca Mountain is not a safe place to store spent fuel from our nation’s nuclear reactors.” She has said the fault lines and seismic activity in the area makes it unsafe. She said the containers that the waste would be stored in would have to be trusted not to rust for hundreds of thousands of years. She said the country does need to find a solution for storing nuclear waste, but Yucca Mountain is not the answer. Until a better solution is made, the country needs to make sure the waste is stored safely at the existing reactor sites. Clinton also voted in 2002 against a Senate bill that called for a nuclear dump at Yucca."

(Note: The Sun asked top tier Democratic candidates this question in October.)

All Democratic candidates oppose Yucca Mountain, but what’s your solution to solving the waste issue — and what’s your stance on nuclear power?

Clinton:

I’ve been against Yucca Mountain from the beginning, and I’m working with Harry Reid to try to starve it to death. When it comes to nuclear power, I’m an agnostic. We’ve got two big problems: What to do with waste? And how do we afford to build and maintain nuclear plants?

If we can deal with those two big question marks, I’m not against it. I’m just not sure it’s the most economical way to move toward renewable energy, which I think is essential to our national security, environment and economy.

YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8_LE8_Q8D4

At a Senate Environment and Public Works Hearing on Oct. 31, 2007, Clinton addressed the licensing process and the status of the Environmental Protection Agency’s radiation standard for the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository.

Las Vegas Sun: Clinton, others weigh in against proposed Nevada nuclear dump (Oct. 31, 2007)

Las Vegas Sun: Brian Greenspun sees Yucca foe in Clinton (12-16-2007)

http://blogs.lasvegassun.com/politics/hillary-clinton/issues/hillary-clinton-on-yucca/

[AntiFascist]

51. Apparently Clinton is mostly talk...

but she didn't bother to attend a couple of important meetings on the issue by her own committee. You can point to any senator's voting record and pull out problems like these.

[Tellurian]

24. Edwards has too many regrets..his entire Senate record is 6 yrs of regrets..

He never helped anyone...just himself!

[AntiFascist]

33. He doesn't have to regret kissing up to corporate lobbyists n/t

[Tellurian]

37. That is the least of his problems..

Edwards helping to Bankrupt Americans..

which makes the middle class highly susceptible to Poverty. (the centerpiece of his platform)

Remember who Co-Sponsored the Iraq Vote?.. John Edwards in case you've forgotten..

and promoted the Iraq War for two years on Bush's White House website?

* Edwards supported a bankruptcy bill that was vetoed by President Clinton. In 2000 John Edwards voted for the Bankruptcy Overhaul bill. While this bill included a slight increase of the minimum wage, its major design was to revise bankruptcy laws to make it easier for courts to force debtors to repay their debts, while before the law had allowed debtors to discharge their debt. 12 Democrats and 2 Republicans rejected this bill, including Chris Dodd, Ted Kennedy, Paul Wellstone, and Tom Harkin. President Clinton eventually vetoed this bill because it was too hard on debtors.

* Edwards voted for the same bill in 2001, again choosing financial interests over working families. In 2001 Edwards voted for a similar Bankruptcy Overhaul bill that again required Americans facing bankruptcy to undergo debt repayments instead of debt relief. Specifically, the bill required debtors able to pay $10,000 or 25% of their debts over five years to file under Chapter 13, which requires a reorganization of debts under a repayment plan, instead of seeking to discharge their debts under Chapter 7. Edwards voted with nearly the entire Republican caucus in supporting this bill, as well as voting to end debate on the measure. Chris Dodd voted to reject this bill, joining Senators Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kennedy, Kerry, and Wellstone. In all, the bill was rejected by 13 Democrats and 2 Republicans.

* Edwards would not allow relief for people who were forced into bankruptcy from medical bills. Edwards also sided with the entire GOP caucus to vote against the Wellstone amendment to the 2001 bill. This amendment would have provided an exemption for debtors who were forced to file for bankruptcy due to medical expenses, under the rationale that health expenses are often unpreventable and can be an especially debilitating cost to low and middle income families. Chris Dodd was one of the 34 Democrats who voted for this amendment?a group that included Senators Clinton, Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kennedy, Kerry and Wellstone.

* Edwards rejected a means test amendment that would have protected debtors from sudden financial misfortune. On the same bill, Edwards again voted with the entire GOP caucus to reject an amendment that would have included a more consumer friendly means test than that included in the original bill. The amended means test would have used the average of a debtor's last two months of income to determine their ability to pay a certain threshold amount of debt, instead of the last six months of income. The amended means test was designed to protect debtors who face financial difficulties from sudden job loss or disability. Paul Wellstone, who authored the amendment, said the original test "will make it impossible for families to rebuild their lives." 22 Democrats supported this amendment, including Chris Dodd. Dodd was accompanied by Senators Clinton, Durbin, Feingold, and Kennedy.

* Edwards supported the final version of the Bankruptcy bill that "punishes the vulnerable." Months later, Edwards again voted for the similar version of the Bankruptcy bill that emerged from negotiations with the House of Representatives. He also voted to limit debate twice on the bill, stifling further amendments or arguments. This version was not substantively different from the earlier versions, as it still made it significantly harder for working Americans to discharge their debts through the bankruptcy system. Chris Dodd rejected this bill, along with Senators Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kennedy, Kerry and Wellstone. 14 Democrats and 2 Republicans voted against the final measure.

The bill Edwards supported "punishes the vulnerable and it rewards the big banks and credit card companies for their poor practices," said Sen. Paul Wellstone, D-Minn., a leading opponent of the legislation. "We are heading into hard economic times and we're going to make it hard for people to rebuild their lives."

Edwards has been part and parcel of the GOP agenda all the way. Edwards voting record is one of the worst of our Dem Senators. Edwards is helping create poverty in the middle class with his bankruptcy vote and earning millions for himself when working for the Hedge Fund sector. The same Hedge Fund sector that was buying sub-prime mortgages for their investment portfolios.. The same "POVERTY" he now professes to help as the centerpiece of his presidential campaign. It must be hard for Edward's supporters to understand the meaning of the words "poverty" and "hypocrisy", when their candidate, John Edwards exemplifies it so well.

Why shouldn't he, he voted for it!

[Tellurian]

38. Edwards walks a fine line regarding taking money from Lobbyists:

That would open up questions about the bundled money that Edwards has taken, the fact that the biggest contributers to his campaign came from hedge fund employees and trial attorneys:

"Mr. Edwards also developed mutually beneficial relationships with public and private institutions. He founded the Center on Poverty, Work and Opportunity at the University of North Carolina, which provided him with a platform. In return, he raised $3 million to sustain it. He was hired by the Fortress Investment Group, a New York hedge fund, to “develop investment opportunities,” according to a 2005 Fortress news release. That led to meetings with such people as Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany; Henry Kravis, founder of KKR, one of Wall Street’s most successful investment funds; and the chief executives of General Electric, Citigroup, Coca-Cola and DaimlerChrysler."

“Fortress became a vehicle for foreign travel,” Mr. Turlington said, “but it was also a way to spend more time with sophisticated financial people.”

The Edwards campaign declined to disclose the amounts raised or spent by the two similarly-named nonprofit agencies — the Center for Promise and Opportunity and the Center for Promise and Opportunity Foundation — since their 2005 tax filings, which are the most recent to have been filed.

snip:

...the line between a bona fide charity and a political campaign is often fuzzy, said Marcus S. Owens, a Washington lawyer who headed the Internal Revenue Service division that oversees nonprofit agencies.

“I can’t say that what Mr. Edwards did was wrong,” Mr. Owens said. “But he was working right up to the line. Who knows whether he stepped or stumbled over it. But he was close enough that if a wind was blowing hard, he’d fall over it.”

snip:

...Of the explicitly political entities, Mr. Edwards’ OneAmerica Committee 527 organization allowed donors to give without limitations. The money was transferred to his leadership political action committee. Leadership committees were initially created to allow prominent politicians to raise money for distribution to needy office-seekers. But Mr. Edwards spent the entire $2.7 million he raised for OneAmerica, including $532,000 raised by the 527, on himself, an increasingly common trend among politicians.

The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/us/politics/22edwards.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

As far as his generalized anti-lobby stance:

EDWARDS: Some Lobbyists Are Just More Equal Than Others

...Still reporting from SEIU's conference, TAPPED's Garance Franke-Ruta was amused to hear John Edwards 'jazzing up' conventioners for the SEIU's 'Lobby Day'. Franke-Ruta blogs: "John Edwards has made it very clear that he thinks lobbyists are the bane of the American political system, and will prevent needed healthcare reform. ...The SEIU has worked with: Bond & Co.; Clark & Weinstock; Colling Murphy Swift Hynes Selfridge LLC; Robert Giroux; Jennings Policy Strategies; the Nueva Vista Group; Bill Lynch Associates; and Tighe Patton Armstrong Teasdale. ... I seriously doubt that the Edwards campaign has a problem with any of this SEIU activity, either, despite his anti-lobbying stance."

http://blogometer.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/09/919_why_the_tas.html

Edwards talks from both sides of his mouth.

[AntiFascist]

39. If most middle class Americans needed to declare bankruptcy in 2000...

then I could see where this would be a centerpiece issue for the Middle Class. Most people would prefer to pay off their debts, however.

Now that the US is really in recession, I wonder if he has revised his position?

[Tellurian]

41. If you intend to declare Bankrupcy..you need approval before declaring..

because unlike the past when declaring a Ch 7, you were completely debt free when finalized. Not now, after the new Bankruptcy Bill pushed by Edwards..re: Edwards pushed for NO leniency on bankruptcy due to staggering medical bills...which imo is a tragedy he is responsible for, further debilitating middle class Americans into sheer poverty..

And in case you have a question how Hillary voted... The vote came about the day she was by her husband's side as he endured By-Pass surgery.

[AntiFascist]

43. People also began abusing the bankruptcy laws...

and banks would only pass on this pain to other consumers with fair credit ratings in the form of higher credit card and loan interest rates.

[Tellurian]

48. Don't be ridiculous..When was the last time you saw a bank go out of business because they've lost$

If you can't post a believable response don't bother. I'd rather look at your graphic and a blank space!

[AntiFascist]

50. Did you bother to even read the body of the post?

I said that banks pass on the pain to the consumers in the form of higher interest rates. Their own loss is minimal. The greater middle class ends up losing.

[Tellurian]

52. No one is forced to accept an interest rate from a Bank..

people shop rates..and Edwards gave a free hand to CC Companies to charge up to 30% to punish you if ...your late for a payment...go over your credit limit... the power to toy with your FICO score!

Please! The Fed sets the rate, and the banks charge a point to 1.5 over Prime for mortgage rates. Banks make their money on personal loans, car loans, equity (interest only) loans, checking account fees, investment fees, managing portfolio fees. etc..

[AntiFascist]

53. Unfortunately a large number of people do use credit cards....

to carry balances from one month to the next. When they do this they are at the mercy of the banks and the interest rates of their credit cards, which often have little to do with the prime rate. As more people abuse the bankruptcy laws, then the first people to suffer will be those carrying these balances at a high interest rate as their interest rate is raised at the whim of the banks.

[Tellurian]

55. Well you can thank John Edwards for helping CC Companies raping the public for that

[AntiFascist]

57. How does Edwards 'help the CC companies rape the public'?

:shrug:

[antiimperialist]

21. Sometimes I wonder...If Hillary ever won a debate....would DU'ers admit it? n/t

[MadBadger]

26. Id would and I have. In the early debates, I have said she has won some

But this was my guy's night. And the media is saying its was her's.

[Tellurian]

28. Obama stumbled a couple of times and had to gather his thoughts..

He is still a student of politics, although to be fair, he has improved somewhat. He's taken many of Hillary's ideas and reshuffled the words into his own phraseology..but the conclusions are the same.

[Renew Deal]

36. We'll let you know if that ever happens.

:thumbsup:

[robbedvoter]

47. Why wonder? See it tonight.

[Whisp]

25. Dennis Kucinich.

what was said in his dismissal from the debate is hardcore info.

[rucky]

30. Didn't watch it.

Fuck NBC

But judging from the reports here - they all won and they all lost.

[AtomicKitten]

34. Well, my candidate, of course!

:silly:

[robbedvoter]

46. Hillary - by going after Bush, mcCain. Obama did well too.

[leftofthedial]

49. Kucinich

[ThirdWheelLegend]

54. what debate?

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gmudem]

59. Obama won

I'm an Edwards supporter but Obama was great tonight. Edwards and Clinton both did well, although I didn't like her fear-mongering.