Not seeing a "problem" with the United Church of Christ that Obama belongs to. Can someone help?

[FrenchieCat]

What am I missing? :shrug:

It appears to be fine. The fact that his particular church happen to be afrocentric doesn't seem to be something unusual.
-----------------------------------

The United Church of Christ (UCC) is a mainline Protestant Christian denomination principally in the United States, generally considered within the Reformed tradition, and formed in 1957 by the union of two denominations, the Evangelical and Reformed Church and the Congregational Christian Churches.

According to the 2006 yearbook, the United Church of Christ has approximately 1.2 million members and is composed of approximately 5,633 local congregations.

The Reformed Church in the United States carried out the tradition of the German version of the Reformed/Calvinist movement, which some commentators have characterized as less rationalistically doctrinal than its Dutch and British Isles counterparts. The German Reformed Church employed the Heidelberg Catechism as its primary, if not sole, confession. Its roots trace mostly to 18th-century immigrants hailing primarily from areas near the Rhine River in Germany, but also from certain parts of Switzerland. The denomination had strong concentrations in Pennsylvania, northern Maryland, and eastern Ohio, but was also present in more scattered patterns in states to the west and south.
Many of the primarily Reformed/Calvinist Congregational churches, whose organizational structure was, obviously, congregationalism, separating them from the then-theologically similar Presbyterians.

The UCC uses four words to describe itself: " Christian, Reformed, Congregational and Evangelical." The church's diversity and adherence to covenantal polity (rather than government by regional elders or bishops) give individual congregations a great deal of freedom in the areas of worship, congregational life, and doctrine.

The motto of the United Church of Christ comes from John 17:21: "That they may all be one." The denomination's official literature uses broad doctrinal parameters, honoring creeds and confessions as "testimonies of faith" rather than "tests of faith," and emphasizes freedom of individual conscience and local church autonomy. Indeed, the relationship between local congregations and the denomination's national headquarters is covenantal rather than hierarchical: local churches have complete control of their finances, hiring and firing of clergy and other staff, and theological and political stands.

The United Church of Christ acknowledges as its sole Head, Jesus Christ, Son of God and Savior. It acknowledges as kindred in Christ all who share in this confession. It looks to the Word of God in the Scriptures, and to the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, to prosper its creative and redemptive work in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_church_of_christ

[Adelante]

1. Only the black one is bad

The white one is gooooooood :crazy:

[The Magistrate]

2. There Is Nothing Wrong With It, Ma'am

It is well within the normal range of predominantly African-American congregations in urban centers.

But there is a great deal about any 'afro-centric' pastor that can be cast in very poor light for an audience that is, shall we say, unfamiliar with that line of thinking....

[lapfog_1]

4. Time to drag Farrakhan out of his grave to scare the white folks again!

oh... oops, he isn't dead yet.

Well, drag him out of his near grave then.

..............................................................

Seriously, probably 99 per cent of black pastors at predominately black churches have had something good to say about Farrakhan. And Farrakhan is a well known anti-Semite as well as past leader of the "Nation of Islam". Farrakhan has been very sick and is likely dying... however, he was being treated for his numerous ailments in Cuba... perhaps Michael Moore knows his current condition!!! :)

So because a pastor said something a while back about Farrakhan, and Obama attended this church, by extension, Obama (remember it's HUSSEIN OSAMA!!!) must be an anti-Semite as well, despite Obama's specific statements to the contrary.

[The Magistrate]

5. Welcome To The Wonderful World Of Presidential Politics, Sir

"Governing a democracy is the art of running the circus from the monkey cage."

[IndianaJones]

8. "Well, Farrakhan's a prophet and I think you ought to listen to

what he can say to you, what you ought to do."

[avaistheone1]

20. Evidentally, Obama's church published a magazine in praise of Farrakhan

I think that is generating alot of the controversy.

Farrakhan is not seen as fair and balanced to say the least, by alot of people.

Farrakhan is seen by many as leading the politics of hate and divisiveness.

[lapfog_1]

24. Duh! ... scare the white folks...

The church praised Farrakhan for his work in getting black men to take more responsibility for their lives, to quit playing the race victim. About 99 percent of black churches around the country probably have as well.

And Obama issued a statement distancing himself from that article quite a while ago.

Every organization that I might belong to or person I might know will say and do things I don't agree with... and I'm sure that this is true for everyone. To link Obama to Farrakhan's anti-Semitic statements with this tenuous connection is a smear.

But I'm getting used to it in this campaign... the constant nasty and disgusting tactics of one of our three leading candidates against Obama is what pushed me to having the avatar that I now have

[GalleryGod]

33. 110% agree, Magistrate. WAY OUT OF BOUNDS.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. UCC churches are often liberal. Evangelicals don't think they count.

[bunkerbuster1]

28. If by "evangelical" you actually mean "Conservative Fundamentalist Christians"

I hate to nitpick, but since we're talking religion, there are decidedly evangelical denominations that are not especially conservative politically.

The Mennonites in particular, are devoutly pacifist and evangelical. Some members/congregations are decidedly conservative as well; many are not.

[GreenPartyVoter]

39. That's why I said Evangelical and not evangelical. The fundies co-opted the word. :^(

(Although, now looking back at my post it was the first word in the sentence so would have been capitalized anyway. :P )

[goodhue]

6. There is no problem.

Some folks grasp at straws . . .

[aquart]

7. Cool. How did he come to be a member?

It wasn't his mother's church. Or his grandmother's. Or his father's. Is it his wife's?

Most of us just accept the religion our parents give us. But others go on a journey to find the right fit. How did Obama reach that church?

[FrenchieCat]

9. He must have made a spiritual journey that I have not been made privy to....

Hillary's stuff sounds stranger to me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4031623

[goodhue]

10. Who cares?

I doubt that all who join other churches or religions necessarily go on a journey. Sometimes it is as haphazard as convience, location, social networks, family and friends. And why is it relevant?, other than to highlight that he attends one of those black churches that those black folks go to.
Reminds me of recent campaign theme (not coming from the Obama camp) emphasizing that he is black.

[Essene]

14. He was saved through the efforts of this church in his 20s

South side of chicago... he was a young activity/civil rights hot-shot.

This is a major, major church that works hard to change lives and turn things around in the community.

The church's founders apparently found great meaning in the liberation theology movements and black power ideas of the 60s and 70s, and you can hear the liberation theology language in the Pastor's talks.

Liberation theology was a catholic (jesuit) missionary approach, mostly in south america, that involved empowering peasants through literacy and missionary work. This got tied DEEPLY into socialist movements in south america and was very much about increasing class consciousness, with a deep spiritual aspect to it. This still has ripple effects today.

In this church's case, i hear Paulo Freire style arguments but in terms of black empowerment.

While that's all groovy and so are all their community activities over the decades... the bottom line is that the rhetoric is black power, black theology, black liberation... not "american" or "christian." For a scared (white) mainstream america that feels under siege by minorities, this sounds radical and separatist.

Obama has an opportunity to explain this, to move ahead... but it's a HUGE swift-boat waiting to happen.

There have already been several Fox bits on this...

[rox63]

31. I was brought up as a Catholic, but don't consider myself one any more

Since then, I've been involved in UU and Quaker congregations. Currently I'm unchurched. A lot of people don't stay with the religion of their parents.

[Essene]

11. The "problem" is one of perceptions and inevitable claims that they are separatists

This isnt about the UCC. It's about the Trinity UCC.

Their website talks about black power, black theology, black liberation, etc. There is NOTHING wrong with this, but it's going to be a huge huge huge swift-boat issue because that will be understood as antithetical to everything Obama says he's about.

This church is going to be deemed a radical black power, separatist group...

It wont be so easy to write-off, either.

[goodhue]

12. so who is doing the swift boating now?

[FrenchieCat]

13. So can I ask you this.......

Why is the church going to be deemed a radical black power separatist group? I think that this is Howard Dean's denomination as well according to wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Dean

Too many Black people as well as Whites are familiar with this denomination, even though each church is locally ran.

The United Church of Christ (UCC) is a mainline Protestant Christian denomination principally in the United States, generally considered within the Reformed tradition, and formed in 1957 by the union of two denominations, the Evangelical and Reformed Church and the Congregational Christian Churches.

According to the 2006 yearbook, the United Church of Christ has approximately 1.2 million members and is composed of approximately 5,633 local congregations.

[Essene]

15. Dont confuse the UCC with the TUCC. When folks talk about his church, they obviously mean TUCC

Certainly emphasizing the wider UCC is a good tactic to deflect the predictable insanity.

This is an old, mainstream church affiliation.

[goodhue]

19. Indeed, because the TUCC is attended by black folks

God forbid

[FrenchieCat]

22. I don't see anything wrong with it.....(I went to the website)

and as a Baptist minister's wife, I could find nothing wrong their tenents.

The church is in a Black neighborhood, so it is afrocentric. Should they be worshiping a blonde Jesus with Blue eyes in order to be acceptable?

It appears that the church is a Christian church. That's what's important. They believe in God and Jesus; that's what's important in presidential politics.

So I don't see the beef.

If You don't like it? I think that's too bad.

We are progressive, not fundies here. And we tend to concern ourselves more with the likes of Hulkaberry who wants to change the constitution.

With OBama, wer concerned not so much.

But go ahead. be "concerned".

[Essene]

40. So churches in white neighborhoods are white-centric? The problem is their rhetoric scares american

As has all black-empowerment rhetoric.

Anything outside the boundaries of meritocracy rhetoric will effectively destroy a black candidate for president.

It's that simple.

What's on that website equates to "separatism" in the american mindset.

[Cha]

35. That's right I remember

that church from the Dean days on DU.. There's always controversary except from the people we really need to see what's going on with them..a la bushit. Whatever the m$$$$m deem necessary to dig up on whomever they don't want near the whitehouse..a la tax cuts and monopoly.

[redqueen]

17. Sure people will try to make hay over it...

I don't know how much traction it will get though.

I'd think if it got ANY (considering that it's a frickin church), I'd think it was just racists who were already looking for an excuse to hate on him. Nothing more. It's that ridiculous, IMO.

[lapfog_1]

27. It's a smear tactic, used to ensure that the Jewish vote does

not go to Obama. Farrakhan is a well known anti-Semite. I'm guessing that ONE CAMPAIGN, already knows for their dirty tactics, is spreading this "connection" around.

I think this is what was intended.
=====
Obama attends the TUCC.

The TUCC published an article saying what good works Farrakhan is doing in the black community.

Farrakhan is an anti-Semite.

Therefore, Obama is an anti-Semite.

Don't vote for Obama, because he won't stand up for Israel.
=====

Only problem is that Obama is supported by AIPAC, as is Hillary Clinton. Does anyone believe that AIPAC would support an anti-Semite?

[redqueen]

36. Does anyone believe that AIPAC would support an anti-Semite?

Does any thinking person? I doubt it.

Does that mean no one would believe it? Sadly, no.

[lapfog_1]

38. It's more like no one knows, because it isn't pushed by the Obama

campaign, that Obama is actually supported by AIPAC.

The only trouble with the Obama folks is that they need to pick up on this crap and push back, hard.

The trouble is that it's like missile command, so many incoming attacks, some of which are really just chaff, and you don't know where to launch your counterstrike. Plus, it puts you on the defensive all the time, and people don't like defensive candidates.

Try to rise above the fray and you get Hari Kerry'd.

I'd love to be in the Obama war room while I'm reading DU and the other blogs and give them my .02 about where to direct their efforts.

"Shuck and Jive" - counter attack and play the race card.

"Fairy tale" - counter attack but don't play the race card.

"voter suppression" - nuke the bastards

and so on.

[bunkerbuster1]

25. Well, it's about the UCC as well.

It's a two-fer. RW thugs hate liberal churches, and they'll spread the idea that this is what happens when white folks allow the coloreds to get too uppity.

[redqueen]

16. I've been trying to ignore this church crap

but I just read a little snippet and... yeah... IMO there's nothing there. It's frickin nonsense.

[H2O Man]

18. The Sky is Falling!!!

Thank goodness there are Henny Penny-ites here to warn us! They are sincere! Concerned! You just can't see it! They can! They often even capitalize letters to raise awareness and express CONCERN!

What will the republicans do?

The Sky is Falling!

[LostinVA]

21. Very Concerned, I agree

[IndianaJones]

34. off topic...no Jones v Trinidad thread in sports? nt.

[H2O Man]

41. I do not

consider that a serious fight, worthy of being discussed in the context of a sports forum. But if you think I should, I will.

[Frustratedlady]

23. I've received many of those blurbs about Obama's church, but...

they get deleted without reading.

I belong to a Methodist Church that is white. I don't think there is a black member. Good thing I'm not running for president, as the blacks wouldn't vote for me, right?

I'm so sick of this crap. We have a lonnnnnng way to go, too.

[bunkerbuster1]

26. Be sure to brace yourself for the "Substitute 'White' for 'Black'" smear

Since Trinity UCC's mission statements have a fair number of references to "Black pride", the Nazi radio talking point is "duhh.... what would the drive-by meeeedia say if it were 'White Pride'? Huhh?"

These aren't real bright people they're directing the argument toward, and they will take some patient explainin'. I suspect the Nazis will push this one for all it's worth if Obama's nominated. C'est le vie--it's always something.

[FrenchieCat]

29. But these weren't people that would vote for a Democrat anyways.....

sounds like; "not real bright people". :shrug:

[grantcart]

30. Clinton machine

couldn't find anything substantive against Obama so we have entered the era of "throw everything against the wall and see how we can scare the peasant" mode. It worked well for Rove and Bush.

[totodeinhere]

32. What church a candidate attends should be irrelevant

This applies to all candidates. We need to judge them on their character, their qualifications, and how they stand on the issues, not their church. We are supposed to have separation of church and state. And for that matter, we shouldn't criticize a candidate who attends no church or who professes to be an atheist either.

[geek tragedy]

37. That's because you're not a racist. n/t