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babylonsister (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:02 PM Original message |
TPM: Obama: Reagan Changed Direction Of Country In Way Bill Clinton Didn't |
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gaiilonfong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:08 PM Response to Original message |
1. I think this is going to help with thoughful Democrats |
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alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:54 PM Response to Reply #1 |
20. Yes, but we need a majority |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:10 PM Response to Original message |
2. Yeah, Clinton only undid Reagan's voodoo economics and saved the country |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:20 PM Response to Reply #2 |
10. Did Clinton get a lot of cross over voters behind him like Reagan (Obama's point)? |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 05:52 PM Response to Reply #10 |
26. Answer - YES |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 06:56 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. Doesn't show much unless you factor Perot in |
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Zynx (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:23 PM Response to Reply #30 |
37. There have been a bunch of studies showing Clinton would have won anyway. |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 08:15 PM Response to Reply #30 |
45. Perot was no factor |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 08:27 PM Response to Reply #45 |
46. Of course he was! |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 09:07 PM Response to Reply #46 |
50. nope! None. And as was pointed out to you above, there were studies that proved it. |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 10:32 PM Response to Reply #50 |
56. Wrong- and studies can't "prove" anything because they can't take into account the dynamics |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:25 AM Response to Reply #56 |
80. Dukakis was a weak campaigner who wasn't willing to play on their level |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 05:26 AM Response to Reply #56 |
86. your gut feeling is just as good as studies and stats! LOL! LOL! Well, end of discussion then! |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 08:28 AM Response to Reply #86 |
92. It's pretty obvious from past discussions that you don't understand |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 08:30 AM Response to Reply #92 |
93. "quantitative analysis" = "gut feeling." Right. Got it. |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 08:43 AM Response to Reply #93 |
94. Gut feelings- intuition is JUST as good when one cannot model dynamics |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 09:55 AM Response to Reply #94 |
95. right. Deny electoral studies and analysis, rely on gut feelings, call it something fancy. Got it. |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:16 AM Response to Reply #45 |
76. Perot likely gave Clinton some of those states he won by just a bit |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 05:27 AM Response to Reply #76 |
87. well, sure. But the outcome was unchanged. Without Perot, Clinton still wins |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:19 AM Response to Reply #45 |
77. Are you ****ing kidding me? |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 05:28 AM Response to Reply #77 |
88. I'm saying with a straignt face, based on studies, stats, exit polling, etc. |
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incapsulated (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:03 AM Response to Reply #2 |
72. Thank you. |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:10 PM Response to Original message |
3. Here are some good comments on what Obama was saying: |
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babylonsister (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:12 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. Thank you for those great additions. The linked interview is pretty |
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indimuse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:17 PM Response to Reply #3 |
35. Quick.. |
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Kurt_and_Hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:14 PM Response to Original message |
5. The electorates mood in 1980 was a desperate turn toward proto-fascism |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:17 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. noted. nt |
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Cameron27 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:18 PM Response to Reply #5 |
8. Thank you |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:52 PM Response to Reply #8 |
19. You guys are missing the point - perhaps on purpose. Read the comments in |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:20 PM Response to Reply #5 |
11. I was there too |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:23 PM Response to Reply #5 |
13. Oh please, people didn't vote for Reagan because they were in a mood for proto-facism. |
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balantz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:25 PM Response to Reply #5 |
14. I was there. |
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jasmine621 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 11:39 PM Response to Reply #14 |
64. I think what Obama is saying is that there is nothing like a huge, swift |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:55 PM Response to Reply #5 |
21. I see it the same way... |
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LandOLincoln (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 10:24 AM Response to Reply #5 |
98. Absolutely right, IMO. |
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2rth2pwr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:14 PM Response to Original message |
6. Obama: Reagan Rocks! |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:20 PM Response to Reply #6 |
9. why be deliberately obtuse? |
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2rth2pwr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:31 PM Response to Reply #9 |
15. ... |
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Maven (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:57 PM Response to Reply #9 |
23. "Reagan was a transformational president" who addressed the "excesses of the 60s and 70s" |
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chimpymustgo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 05:08 PM Response to Reply #23 |
24. I'm curious what Obama considers the "excesses of the 60's and 70's". |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 11:12 PM Response to Reply #24 |
57. Me, too. |
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incapsulated (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:06 AM Response to Reply #24 |
73. Sounds exactly like a repuke |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:02 PM Response to Reply #23 |
32. Can you honestly deny that Reagan was a transformational President? |
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MrCoffee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:05 PM Response to Reply #32 |
33. isn't there a means to the end argument here? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 08:49 PM Response to Reply #33 |
49. Which is why we need a change of that magnitude, in the right direction |
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MrCoffee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 12:16 PM Response to Reply #49 |
102. you can create any narrative you want...the end is the same |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-18-08 12:18 AM Response to Reply #102 |
104. FDR? LBJ? Jefferson? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 09:10 PM Response to Reply #33 |
51. A couple of thoughts about means and ends, too |
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MrCoffee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 12:15 PM Response to Reply #51 |
101. and yet we rant and rail against chimpy's "unitary executive" |
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incapsulated (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:02 AM Response to Reply #23 |
71. Um, he really said that?? |
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Cameron27 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:06 AM Response to Reply #71 |
74. Yes incap |
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incapsulated (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:10 AM Response to Reply #74 |
75. Ugh. |
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Andromeda (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:53 AM Response to Reply #9 |
81. It sounds to me like Reagan... |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 05:38 AM Response to Reply #81 |
89. LOL - Reagan transformed ketchup into a vegetable! |
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BeyondGeography (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:21 PM Response to Original message |
12. He sets a nice little trap for the Clintons here |
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GodlessBiker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:56 PM Response to Reply #12 |
22. Yes. The fact remains that the vast majority of Americans think Reagan was a great Prez. |
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avaistheone1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:32 PM Response to Original message |
16. No thanks. Reagan has taken this country backwards. |
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balantz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:41 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. A very poor choice of a president for Obama to give ANY praise to |
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Inuca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:30 PM Response to Reply #18 |
41. He did not say he agreed with him |
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William769 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 04:33 PM Response to Original message |
17. Clinton balanced the Budget Reagan destroyed it is one difference. |
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Avalux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:21 PM Response to Reply #17 |
36. Not talking about policy or actions in office. |
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VotesForWomen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 05:25 PM Response to Original message |
25. dissing the clinton era is probably not going to be a net win for obama. nt |
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BenDavid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 05:56 PM Response to Original message |
27. For Obama to even suggest there is something familiar in what |
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suston96 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 06:51 PM Response to Original message |
28. Doubling the national debt was a great legacy Reagan left....... |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 06:55 PM Response to Reply #28 |
29. You are missing the whole boat! |
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suston96 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:26 PM Response to Reply #29 |
39. No, I missed nothing. I remember those times very well.... |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:31 PM Response to Reply #39 |
42. Then miss the boat...... |
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LandOLincoln (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 10:09 AM Response to Reply #42 |
97. Frenchie, you know I love you, and I agree with Obama that |
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ZinZen (599 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 08:33 PM Response to Reply #29 |
48. Frenchie, |
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MrCoffee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:01 PM Response to Original message |
31. Is Obama willing to use the "mood of the electorate" to the extent Reagan did? |
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jackson_dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:09 PM Response to Original message |
34. Obama in his book before running for president: Clinton rocked, Clinton had progressive policies |
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Zynx (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:25 PM Response to Original message |
38. Reagan reflected, but did not change the electorate. |
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goodhue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:28 PM Response to Original message |
40. yes, in a bad way |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:31 PM Response to Reply #40 |
43. Clinton fulfilled his promises |
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LandOLincoln (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 11:06 AM Response to Reply #43 |
99. He used to. |
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Yael (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 07:32 PM Response to Original message |
44. Oh noes! The context!! |
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NashVegas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 08:31 PM Response to Original message |
47. Yeah, Reagan Brought All the Racist Assholes Out of the Closet |
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ShadowLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 09:53 PM Response to Original message |
52. Obama is right, Reagan got tons of people to come over to his side, he won landslide elections |
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Zorra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 10:12 PM Response to Original message |
53. Well, then...I can no longer consider Obama a viable Democratic candidate. |
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Colobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 10:22 PM Response to Original message |
54. I made the exact point some time ago, and people jumped all over me. |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 10:30 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. Sometimes, when one hangs out on the Internet for too long, |
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Barack_America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 11:15 PM Response to Original message |
58. How is this not a true statement? |
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Zorra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 11:22 PM Response to Reply #58 |
59. A great leader does good things for her/his people, no? Is it a great |
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Barack_America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 11:36 PM Response to Reply #59 |
61. He didn't say a great "leader". |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 11:47 PM Response to Reply #58 |
66. It pisses me off.... |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 11:26 PM Response to Original message |
60. And Hitler was a great orator. Holy Hell!! |
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Barack_America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 11:37 PM Response to Reply #60 |
62. You're confusing great = wonderful with great = effective. |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 11:41 PM Response to Reply #62 |
65. Like a said... |
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Barack_America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 11:50 PM Response to Reply #65 |
67. Unfortunately, the rest of the country.. |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 12:10 AM Response to Reply #67 |
70. Yes, it is the victors who write history... |
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Barack_America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:23 AM Response to Reply #70 |
79. And he did see that... |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 03:04 AM Response to Reply #79 |
82. I'll say it again... |
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bklyncowgirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 07:46 AM Response to Reply #60 |
91. Well he was. Were his policies good for Germany and the world, of course not. |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 11:10 AM Response to Reply #60 |
100. lol |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-16-08 11:38 PM Response to Original message |
63. Indeed... |
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Zorra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 12:02 AM Response to Reply #63 |
68. Lies! Damn lies and statistics! |
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paulk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 12:03 AM Response to Original message |
69. Bill didn't have much of a chance since he had to spend his |
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LeFleur1 (973 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:21 AM Response to Reply #69 |
78. What Reagan Really Did |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 05:14 AM Response to Reply #78 |
84. The facts are plain..... |
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paulk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 10:04 AM Response to Reply #84 |
96. how is it a "fact" that Obama will swing the pendulum back |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 05:09 AM Response to Original message |
83. No, Clinton just slowed it down a little |
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girl_interrupted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 05:21 AM Response to Reply #83 |
85. Yes , Reagan took us down the crapper |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 05:40 AM Response to Reply #85 |
90. For the bottom half it was more like a few inches back upstream |
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Carrieyazel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-17-08 01:54 PM Response to Original message |
103. Obama has NO CLUE. The direction of the country was changing BEFORE Reagan was nominated. |
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