Obama supporters! The Ronald Reagan Appreciation Thread!

[wyldwolf]

A Great President who yearned so much for freedom and democracy in Soviet-bloc nations but showed limited concern for democracy and human rights in other parts of the globe. After Democrats and Republicans in Congress passed sanctions against the apartheid government of South Africa, Reagan vetoed the measure. His Administration cuddled up with the fascistic and anti-Semitic junta of Argentina and backed militaries in El Salvador and Guatemala that massacred civilians. It moved to normalize relations with Augusto Pinochet, the tyrant of Chile. Reagan sent George Bush the First to the Philippines, where the Vice President toasted dictator Ferdinand Marcos for fostering "democracy." Pursuing a quasi-secret war against the Sandinista government in Nicaragua, the Reagan Administration violated international law and circumvented Congress to support contra rebels engaged in human rights abuses and, according to the CIA's own Inspector General, worked with suspected drug traffickers. Reagan covertly sent arms to the mullahs of Iran and courted Saddam Hussein, even after his use of chemical weapons. He appointed officials who claimed nuclear war was winnable, thus raising the chances that miscalculations by the Soviet Union or the United States would plunge the world into chaos.

On the home front Reagan was almost as divisive and disingenuous as the second Bush. His deficit-causing supply-side tax cuts (derided by the elder Bush as "voodoo economics") were sold with phony numbers and sleight-of-hand accounting. These "trickle-down" tax cuts--coupled with a tremendous boost in military spending--were designed to bankrupt the government, pressuring it to reduce government spending and thereby justifying draconian cuts in social programs. (Remember ketchup as a vegetable?)

Reagan showed little concern for the deindustrialized workers who suffered during the 1980s, and he was actively hostile to unions, firing PATCO air-traffic controllers en masse after they struck for better pay and working conditions. His Attorney General, Edwin Meese, displayed little regard for civil liberties, noting, "You don't have many suspects who are innocent of a crime." His Interior Secretary, James Watt, fancied dead trees over live ones. And no one in the Reagan White House appeared to care about a new pandemic that mainly killed homosexuals. Reagan's inaction and bigotry against gays and drug-users led to tens of thousands of deaths that might have been avoided if he had moved earlier.

Reagan effectively installed a revolving door at the White House through which key advisers passed on their way to lucrative jobs as lobbyists--and subsequent indictments for influence peddling. Despite his Administration's "law and order" language, by the 1990s nearly 200 Reagan-era officials had faced investigation and prosecution. Special prosecutor Lawrence Walsh's conclusion that Reagan had "created the conditions which made possible the crimes committed by others" in the Iran/contra scandal holds true for the more widespread lack of ethical standards. His Administration weakened workplace safety standards. He presided over an S&L scandal that stuck taxpayers with a bill approaching a trillion dollars. He appointed Antonin Scalia to the Supreme Court. He tried to gut the Civil Rights Commission, and his Administration waged a relentless series of attacks on affirmative action while trying to grant tax-exempt status to private schools that engaged in racial discrimination.

Reagan once malapropped, "Facts are stupid things." He meant "stubborn," and we hope that they are, and that the facts of Reagan's presidency survive the hagiography now being written. His life, as the cliché-soaked commentators note incessantly, may have been an "American life." But his presidency was no morning in America; it empowered and enabled some of the worst elements of public life in our country: greed, arrogance, neglect and hypocrisy. This Reagan legacy, unfortunately, survives its namesake, and, worse, it has been enhanced by the son of his Vice President...

... and Barack Obama.

From: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040628/editors with comments added.

[sunonmars]

1. I'm telling you, i have no idea if he's.....

A democrat or a republican these days.

This serious love fest he has with republicans worries me a lot.

[FrenchieCat]

30. Yes, John Conyers has the same problem......

But has decided to take a chance on Obama.

Maybe he's just being fooled. :sarcasm:

[jackson_dem]

49. Obama was endorsed by a very RW newspaper in Nevada just yesterday

[awaysidetraveler]

58. Obama didn't endorse Ronald Reagan in that article. Where's your proof?

Or is there any?

[FrenchieCat]

62. Yep, there is.

It's right here in his own words.

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080115/VIDEO/80115026&oaso=news.rgj.com/breakingnews

[awaysidetraveler]

59. Yes... Obama's Osama, he's pro-life, he's really for the war in Iraq too.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

2. I appreciate how Reagan pulled us all together.

:rofl:

[HowHasItComeToThis]

3. WHO MANAGED TO HURT AMERICA THE MOST????

NIXON RAYGUN BUSHTHEELDER JUNIORBUSH

[FrenchieCat]

4. Instead, I'll ask Reagan Democrats, as Wes Clark did in 04, and as Obama is doing in 08

come back to us!

We need you.

We've barely have a majority....and can't get shit done, and can't stop shit from happening.

So come over.....(don't come to DU, cause the circus will scare you)....

But come back on voting day, and stay awhile. We are a big tent!

THank you,

FrenchieCat

[BootinUp]

9. We didn't do too bad in '06

people were coming back. I don't think Clark ever spoke about the hope that Reagan inspired, this is a bit too much for me to stomach.

[jackson_dem]

50. "Reagan Democrats"=Wallace Democrats. It was always code for racist Dems who voted for Reagan

[BootinUp]

53. And... trickle down economics. nt

[FredScuttle]

63. and gutting our public schools and throwing the mentally challenged out on the street

pander to that? Ugh.

[silverojo]

5. If you think Hillary isn't in bed with the Repukes

You need your head examined. Only she's in bed with the worst Repukes of all: The Bush clan.

[leftynyc]

33. I['m sure they really appreciated when

she called chimp pathetic last night on national TV.

[crawfish]

72. Smokescreen

Actions speak louder than words.

[oasis]

6. Reagan was full of shit. He and Obama have much in common.(eom)

[Avalux]

7. I compared Obama to Reagan earlier today. Here me out.

I do not have kind words for Reagan, but he did have the uncanny ability to get people from all political corners to work together. That's where Obama is going with this - he's not talking policy.

[avaistheone1]

15. What did Reagan bring people together to do?

I must have missed it.

[Avalux]

22. He managed to get a lot of Dems to vote for him.

I grew up in central PA and was a kid at the time; people who had voted Dem their whole life jumped ship and voted for Reagan.

[wyldwolf]

29. up until, oh, five minutes ago, "progressives" said "good riddance" to those Dems...

[Avalux]

31. We need them back - people like my Dad.

He even voted for Bush but now has realized the Democrats really are the best hope for this country.

[Maven]

41. No, Obama needs them maybe.

Because he does better among independents than registered Dems.

[Avalux]

45. WE need them. All of us.

I am tired of exclusionary divisive attitudes - there are people out there who have merely been misguided and need to be shown that the Democratic Party is where they want to be.

[Pacifist Patriot]

32. Yep. That baffled me then and still baffles me today.

[avaistheone1]

8. Reagan wanted to cut school lunch program afterall Ketchup is a vegetable!!!

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SteppingRazor]

11. Of course, what Obama actually said...

was that Reagan fundamentally changed the direction of this country in a way that neither Nixon nor Clinton was able to.


He didn't say whether it was a positive or a negative change. And he's right. Reagan's presidency utterly transformed this nation. Not for the better, of course, but that's not what the argument was about. The argument was about the ability to carry out change in this country, and how certain election years represent watershed moments in our history.

Here's a link to the pretty even-handed bit on this at Talking Points Memo:
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/obama_reagan_changed_direction_of_country_in_way_bill_clinton_didnt.php

[Occam Bandage]

12. I love fascism.

[TooBigaTent]

13. An objective assessment of Raygun's administration shows what a disaster he

was for any and all democratic ideals.

For anyone on DU to say anything positive about the SOB is discouraging.

I myself have severe doubts about Obama, but I have not heard anything that links him to Raygun. Has he praised the asshole or something similar?

[SteppingRazor]

21. See my link above to TPM.

Obama discussed how Reagan was able to alter the course of American history, how his election in 1980 represented a watershed moment. And that's certainly true. Reagan's presidency was the beginning of the conservative ascendancy that only began to ebb in 2006.

Of course, this is now being spun as Obama somehow being pro-Reagan. Say what you want about the man, but to think that his policies are in any way similar to Reagan's is stupid, naive and/or disingenuous.

[TooBigaTent]

36. Read the TPM site article - Obama could have made the point of change that

Raygun brought about without being so damn positive. He could have made it more explicit that he wants to bring about change that would undo the damage that the repugs have done. I know he feels he has to tread softly, lest he offend the repukes and indies that he wants to attract. But damn - throw us liberals a bone once in a while. At least pretend that he wants our vote, instead of assumking that we have no where else to go.

When the tent fills up with right-wingers, the liberals will be pushed out.

[jackson_dem]

51. Why didn't Obama use FDR as his example? Why a rethug

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tejanocrat]

16. Obama quote: "my party can be smug, detached, and dogmatic at times. I believe in the free market,

competition, and entrepreneurship, and think no small number of government programs don’t work as advertised..."

The Audacity of Hope

[Tejanocrat]

19. Obama quote: "We Democrats are just, well, confused. There are those who still champion the old-time

religion, defending every New Deal and Great Society program from Republican encroachment, achieving ratings of 100 percent from the liberal interest groups …"

The Audacity of Hope

[jackson_dem]

54. Obamites should read his book and fast before we are stuck with him

[avaistheone1]

24. Obama shows true self as a Corporatist

The emptiness behind the slogan ‘free trade’ has been pointed out again and again by numerous NGOs, by Progressive Internet sites and by individual objectors to the obscene power of the transnational corporations. It needs however to be stressed constantly until the corporate empire falls and IN BOLDFACE CAPITALS, that the ‘free trade concept’ which the rich countries are holding forth as the savior of the world from poverty, increasing unemployment and horrendous inequality is just a legerdemain, an empty illusion. It is a way of duping all of us into believing that something positive is coming out of this huge scam.

In particular, the part of the world that is the target of the greed of the big corporations (represented by the World Trade Organization) is of course the poor countries in the South, especially Africa, which is being mercilessly screwed into becoming helpless buyers of overpriced products from the rich countries while they are being prevented, through crafty agreements, imposed by the World Bank, from continuing the production of what has been their main source of income and sustenance for hundreds of years. All for the profit of the already rich countries and corporations, and the people be damned.

http://www.lookingglassnews.org/printerfriendly.php?storyid=4386

[jackson_dem]

55. Obama is pro-free trade

Again, from the Audacity of Hope.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

47. I agree 100% with that quote

and the proof of that first part can be found all around us on DU.

[Radical Activist]

17. Talk about missing the point.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

18. These are all republican positions for the most part.

Thats why I don't vote for them.

[MrsT]

20. Calling Sen. Clinton a Goldwater Girl is just as lame

as what you and others are trying to do with this.

[robbedvoter]

25. If Hillary will become misty eyed over Goldwater TODAY, i'd do the same to her.

[robbedvoter]

23. Raygun made racism fashionable again - and took the kids lunches

WTG, Obama!
I realize he was probably very young at the time - but letting strategerists run the show like that...He's thinking GE - but will lose the primaries - fast.
The Raygun worshipper side is very crowded - and they usually prefer white.

[Bonobo]

26. *Boo hiss Boo hiss*

[ProSense]

27. Reagan may have changed America (for the worse), but he doesn't deserve praise

Speech by President at Ronald Reagan Building Dedication

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For Immediate Release May 5, 1998
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT RONALD REAGAN BUILDING DEDICATION

Ronald Reagan Building
Washington, D.C.

1:36 P.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. Mrs. Reagan, Mr. Barram, Secretary Daley, Senator Moynihan, Delegate Norton, Senator Dole, Senator Lott, all the members of Congress and the Diplomatic Corps who are here; Mr. Mayor, Secretary Schultz and General Powell, and all the former members of the Reagan administration who are here and enjoying this great day; to Maureen and the friends of President and Mrs. Reagan who are here: I'd like to begin by thanking Jim Freed and his team for a magnificent building. I think we all feel elevated in this building today. (Applause.)

I also want to say on behalf of Hillary and myself a special word of appreciation to Mrs. Reagan for being here. From her own pioneering efforts to keep our children safe from drugs to the elegance and charm that were the hallmarks of the Reagan White House, through her public and brave support for every family facing Alzheimer's, she has served our nation exceedingly well. And we thank her. (Applause.)

The only thing that could make this day more special is if President Reagan could be here himself. But if you look at this atrium, I think we feel the essence of his presence: his unflagging optimism, his proud patriotism, his unabashed faith in the American people. I think every American who walks through this incredible space and lifts his or her eyes to the sky will feel that.

As Senator Moynihan just described, this building is the completion of a challenge issued 37 years ago by President Kennedy. I ought to say, and doggedly pursued for 37 years by Senator Moynihan. (Laughter and applause.) I must say, Senator, there were days when I drove by here week after week after week and saw only that vast hole in the ground, when I wondered if the "Moynihan hole" would ever become the Reagan Building. (Laughter.) But, sure enough, it did, and we thank you.

As you have heard, this building will house everything from an international trade center to international cultural activities to the Agency for International Development to the Woodrow Wilson Center for Scholars. It is fitting that the plaza on which we gather bears the name of President Wilson. And it is fitting that Presidents Wilson and Reagan are paired, for their work and, therefore, the activities which will be culminated in this building span much of what has become the American Century.

Since President Reagan left office, the freedom and opportunity for which he stood have continued to spread. For half century, American leaders of both parties waged a cold war against aggression and oppression. Today, freed from the yolk of totalitarianism, new democracies are emerging all around the world, enjoying newfound prosperity and long-awaited peace. More nations have claimed the fruits of this victory -- free markets, free election, plain freedom. And still more are struggling to do so.

Today, we joy in that, but we cannot -- indeed, we dare not -- grow complacent. Today, we recall President Reagan's resolve to fight for freedom and his understanding that American leadership in the world remains indispensable. It is fitting that a piece of the Berlin Wall is in this building. America's resolve and American ideals so clearly articulated by Ronald Reagan helped to bring that wall down.

But as we have seen repeatedly in the years since, the end of the Cold War did not bring the end of the struggle for freedom and democracy, for human rights and opportunity. If the history of this American century has taught us anything, it is that we will either work to shape events, or we will be shaped by them. We cannot be partly in the world. We cannot lead in fits and starts or only when we believe it suits our short-term interests. We must lead boldly, consistently, without reservation, because, as President Reagan repeatedly said, freedom is always in America's interests.

Our security and prosperity depend upon our willingness to be involved in the world. Woodrow Wilson said that Americans were participants in the life of the world, like it or not. But his countrymen did not listen to him, and as a result, there came a great Depression, the rise of fascism, the second world war. Our nation then learned we could not withdraw from the world.

Then a new generation of Americans reach outward in the years after World War II, building new alliances of peace and new engines of prosperity -- NATO, the United Nations, the IMF, the International Trading System. It is no accident that during this period of great American leadership abroad we experienced unparalleled economic prosperity here at home. And it is no accident that freedom's great triumph came on America's watch.

Today on the edge of a new century, the challenges we face are more diverse. But the values that guide America must remain the same. The globalization of commerce and the explosion of communications technology do not resolve all conflicts between nations. Indeed, they create new challenges. They do not diminish our responsibility to lead, therefore, instead they heighten it. Because today's possibilities are not tomorrow's guarantees, we must remain true to the commitment to lead, that every American leader of both parties, especially Ronald Reagan and Woodrow Wilson, so clearly articulated in this 20th century.

For 50 years we fought for a Europe undivided and free. Last week the United States Senate took a profoundly important step toward that goal by welcoming Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic into NATO, an achievement I believe that would make Ronald Reagan proud. The alliance that helped to keep the peace for half century now brings us closer than ever to that dream of a Europe united, democratic and at peace.

Now Congress has other opportunities to fulfill the spirit and honor the legacy of the man whose name we affix to this building today. Congress has the opportunity to maintain our leadership by paying for our support to the IMF and settling our dues to the United Nations. I hope they will do it.

President Reagan once said we had made what he called an unbreakable commitment to the IMF, one that was unbreakable because in this age of economic interdependence an investment in the IMF is simply an investment in American prosperity. And we fought for 50 years for peace and security as part of the United Nations.

In 1985, Ronald Reagan said the U.N. stands as the symbol of the hopes of all mankind for a more peaceful and productive world. We must not, he said, disappoint those hopes. We still must not disappoint those hopes. President Reagan understood so clearly that America could not stand passively in the face of great change. He understood we had to embrace the obligations of leadership to build a better future for all. The commerce that will be conducted in this great building will be a testament to the opportunities in a truly global economy America has done so much to create.

The academic and cultural activities that will be generated from people who work here will bring us closer together as well. Because the agency for International Development will be here, we will never forget that the spark of enterprise and opportunity should be brought to the smallest, poorest villages in the world. For there, too, there are people of energy, intelligence, and hunger for freedom.

This is a great day for our country. This is a day of honoring the legacy of President Reagan, remembering the service of President Wilson, and rededicating ourselves to the often difficult but ultimately always rewarding work of America.

As I stand within the Reagan Building I am confident that we will again make the right choices for America, that we will take up where President Reagan left off -- to lead freedom's march boldly into the 21st century.

Thank you and God bless you. (Applause.)

END 1:47 P.M. EDT

[Yael]

28. This is a GREAT truce!

:popcorn:

[jonnyblitz]

34. I saw that thread.

:wow: unfuckingbelievable.

[troubleinwinter]

35. I lived under that motherfucker for sixteen years.

Eight as governor and eight as president.

He sent military tanks through the streets of my town, military bivoaked at the edge of town. Gassed the people from military helicopters when they were contained. Gassed the children in the California School For the Blind.

Ed Meese.

"Seen one redwood tree, you've seen 'em all." "Cut down all the Eucalyptus trees."

I am utterly delighted that the fuck is dead.

[mnhtnbb]

71. Me, too. His signature was on my BS from UCLA (that burned up)

when our house burned down last August.

Good riddance, Ronnie.

[frazzled]

37. Does The Nation enjoy willfully misunderstanding things?

This really pissed me off enough to actually log on from all the way in friggin' Belgium, where it's cold and rainy and I have the goddamned flu and haven't been able to eat anything in 48 hours.

So I'll be brief and try to explain in a way that even a fifth grader (or the Nation can understand): Obama is not saying he wants to emulate Reagan's shitty policies. He's saying he'd like to pull the majority (not 51 per cent, like Bush, or a plurality of Americans merely, like Clinton but a sweeping majority) to our side, like Reagan made away with Democrats en masse. I suppose The Nation prefers the razor-thin majorities and push-me-pull-you politics we've had the last 15 years or so? Hell, I'd be thrilled if Independents and Democrats became "Obama Democrats" and we could ultimately push through a bunch of the progressive things Obama stands for.

Jayzus, I think these freakin' Belgians can even understand this, and they are, like, totally fucked up and disunited.

[SteppingRazor]

40. To be fair to The Nation, the ending line about Barack Obama was added by the OP. n/t

[Maven]

38. There's an Obama ad in the middle of that page.

How appropriate.

[LittleClarkie]

39. All he said was that Reagan was a transitional president that got the country behind him

It doesn't appear that he was praising all of what Reagan did or all that Reagan stood for, only the way Reagan was able to rally people behind him, at least from what I've been able to read so far.

Which is why the Republican party has been looking for another Reagan ever since.

[BenDavid]

42. When a republican, especially in 1980 said,

"I believe in states' rights" as Ronald Reagan did, then he(reagan) was elbow deep in the same old race-baiting Southern strategy of Nixon.


I have to wonder about obama.....

[DURHAM D]

60. Yep - someone should hand Obama a note with the following:

Reagan announced his run for the Presidency in Philadelphia, Mississippi - 3 civil rights workers murdered.

[arewenotdemo]

68. I agree with that. But maybe it's inevitable that the first AA candidate

with a snowball's chance of winning the WH would feel that he/she has to reach out to every element of white American society.

At least Obama didn't pull a Howard Dean and talk about Confederate flags in pickup trucks! And I love Howard...

[NoBorders]

43. I hope we have Dem prez as effective as Reagan was for the repugs

But for progressive issues instead.

[dionysus]

44. if Obama is conservative, as you so imply, why aren't you his biggest fan?

seeing as you're a proud Conservative Democrat and all?

[LittleClarkie]

46. Swiftboating is beneath you, wyldwolf

You know very well what he meant.

Or should we post a similar thread about Bill's kind words re: Reagan here:

http://www.clintonfoundation.org/legacy/050598-speech-by-president-at-ronald-reagan-building-dedication.htm

Using your logic, I guess Bill and Hillary are quite the fans of Reagan too.

[dionysus]

48. thing is, it's obviously *not* beneath him.

[LittleClarkie]

52. I've seen him do better

But I will agree it's been a sad decline for a while now. There was a time when he posted informative articles and didn't engage in this sort of thing.

[CyberPieHole]

65. When you can't attack the message...attack the messenger...

Obama's praise of Reagan is indefensible.

[jackson_dem]

56. It appears that wyldwolf has read the Audacity of Hope

Obama talks about Reagan on pages 31-33, 36, 43, 147, 156-58, 181-82, 201, 209, 288-289, 293.

[LittleClarkie]

61. Yes, but is he mostly talking about Reagan's methods

or his ideology? From the snippets I've seen so far, it's mostly about how Reagan got the job done.

But why act as if any of this is new then, when it's not the Audacity of Hope Wyldwolf is quoting from, but an interview from npr? If it bothered him so much from reading that book, why have a fit now?

[Perry Logan]

57. "Death Squad" Reagan's was by far the most corrupt Presidential administration, before GWB.

The Reagan gang racked up more convictions and forced resignations than any administration ever. They were so corrupt, they would sometimes rack up more convictions and forced resignations IN A SINGLE DAY than the Clinton administration managed in its entire eight years.

Reagan's was:
the first administration in American history to have a sitting cabinet member indicted.
the first administration in American history to have an Assistant Secretary of State indicted.
the first administration in American history to have an Assistant Secretary of Defense sent to prison.
the first administration in American history to have over 100 members of an administration charged with crimes.
the first administration in American history to have more members of his administration charged with crimes than the cumulative total of all other presidents in the twentieth century.

[L. Coyote]

73. George Bush Sr. May Face Charges: Conspiring to Kidnap and Murder Political Activists

George Bush Sr. May Face Charges: Conspiring to Kidnap and Murder Political Activists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2459135

[CyberPieHole]

64. K&R n/t

[Yael]

66. The surge, er, TRUCE is working!!

Y'all are cracking me up. :rofl:

:popcorn:

[DrFunkenstein]

67. Obama To Fight Cold War in Latin America - You Hear It Here First!

Seriously, if Obama can bring aboard moderates and conservatives to support major reforms to our health care and energy policies by praising Reagan, I am willing to concede the matter. And I say that as a subscriber to The Nation.

[Politicub]

69. Thank you for posting this

I'm seriously bothered by the sudden embrace of Reagan by many of Obama's followers. Notice I didn't say, "all of his followers," as part of me needs to believe that there are still folks, even if they support Obama, that can still comprehend the truth about the Reagan era -- not just this glossed over, genial old grandfather who never existed.

[2rth2pwr]

70. and Cousin of the current Vice President. nt