The Clintons are dyed in the wool life long liberals. Obama is a blank slate seeking an agenda.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

The Clintons are masterful politicians and understand how far and how fast they can push through their liberal agenda. They understand that you can't talk like Kucinich and expect to get a chance to govern. BUT no sane person can say they don't have six decades of LIBERAL activism in and out of government under their belts. That's why the RePUKE right hates them.

They raised taxes on the rich and reversed Reagan's evil, they pushed for gays in the military as their first action and got halfway there, they appointed liberal judges, they won over enough Americans that they got the entire country behind them so they could defeat a RePUKE attempt to remove them from office, they invaded Haiti, they handled the chaos of the breakdown of the USSR almost without losing a single American soldier.

Obama is an ambitious candidate who wants to win an election. He's a candidate in search of a winning core identity. He writes books praising Reagan and targets "black fathers" as an example of a failure of "personal responsibility," one of his and Reagan's favorite phrases. He votes for the Patriot Act and war funding, waffles on the IWR, and says "no comment" on controversial issues like abortion. He supports the death penalty and opposes gay marriage.

Obama's record reads like someone whose first priority was to be a candidate who could win 51% in a presidential election. It's thin, silent, cowardly, pandering, and this past week went even further than that to be nauseating.

This isn't why I'm not voting for Obama. I'm not voting for him because he is seen as a lightweight on national security which I think will be the top issue in the election unless Huckabee is nominated.

This is also why I'll vote for Obama against the RePUKE if he's nominated BUT I won't make any effort beyond that to get him elected because I don't think he would win. Second, I'm not "inspired" enough to even peel off a bumper sticker and put it on my car because I couldn't tell you one thing he's ever "stood for."

[skipos]

1. Life starts after Goldwater, right? nt

[Unsane]

2. Game, set, match.

[LittleClarkie]

3. That was such a long time ago

Surely you have a more recent beef with her?

[TwilightZone]

9. If 1964 is the best you can do....

[Egnever]

4. Your foundations are flawed

but its your vote do with it what you will.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

8. Where. I'm listening. nt

[sunonmars]

5. This is what I feel too

I cannot see the real man, would he please stand, i just have a gut instinct we are not seeing the real Barack Obama at all.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

11. Not only aren't we seeing "real" Obama, I'm not convinced there is one. nt

[DJ13]

6. Name something "liberal" signed into law by President Clinton

..................

[Unsane]

7. DOMA, welfare reform, and Kosovo bombings were liberal?

[depakid]

10. Oh come on now!

One can only go so far, before damaging their credibility....

The far right hated them because the Clintons coopted so much of their agenda.

[THUNDER HANDS]

12. I'd say they're more like slightly left-leaning centerists

but that's just me.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

13. First action is gays in the military and that's a centerist?

:shrug:

[Unsane]

15. Followed up by DOMA.

[THUNDER HANDS]

22. don't ask don't tell is centerist

gays aren't in the military, at least not openly.

If they were, that would be a liberal position.

If they were banned with some sort of screening process, that would be conservative.

Don't ask don't tell is the middle ground.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

25. Don't ask don't tell was step one. Step two (don't ask, tell) will come sooner because of it. nt

[THUNDER HANDS]

31. okay

you're not disproving what I said though.

[Sparkly]

35. At the time, it was enormous and controversial. nt

[Iceburg]

38. And it was a life raft raft to the gay community at the time...

Prior to DADT there was a COMPLETE ban on gays in the military
If you had lived thru those times you would have experienced the witch hunts in search of gay servicemen/women that took place on a regular basis in all the gay hangouts. It was not pretty. I'm not saying it is easy to be gay in these times(especially in the miltary) but prior to DADT it was hell.

I put together some facts and thoughts on the Obama, Edwards and Clinton position on the specific topic of gay marriage over in the GLBT. The videos speak for themselves.

[stravu9]

14. PUSHED THROUGH NAFTA.

Corporate Democrats.
Hillary was on the Board at Wal-Mart. Sam Walton called her "his little lady."
Clinton did NOT support Kyoto.
Clinton de-regulated the Cable TV industry.

Life long Liberal MY FANNY!

[kelligesq]

16. I'm not voting for anybody who has taken lobbiest money - that

leaves only one candidate.

Did you see Edwards face when Obama claimed in Tuesday's debate he didnt take lobbiest money and pac money either ?

like incredulous

No, he only took Chamber of Commerce, National Association of Mfts, Oil Companies...all the people killing our manufcturing and outsourcing another 35 million jobs this year.

[LittleClarkie]

17. I'm not sure even the Clintons would agree.

They are New Democrats, which would seem to mean they are centrists, not liberals. Oh, I suppose someone standing far enough to the right would call them liberal. But they are centrists.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

20. They are people with a "liberal agenda" who try to figure out the best way to get it through

within the landscape they're working in. After the Reagan years there was an anti-Dukakis anti Jesse Jackson landscape they had to pretend to be outside of in order to get the keys to the White House. So they came up with a word: "New Democrat." It meant old Democrat who can get things done.

[LittleClarkie]

21. It seems weird to have someone talk about their "liberal agenda" here

mostly I hear people like Rush talk about such things.

Reading the DLC's website, it seems to mean more than old Democrat who can get things done. They're more hawkish, for one.

[madrchsod]

26. i think the correct term is -neo liberal

[David Zephyr]

18. Which is why they gave us NAFTA, DOMA, IWR and Welfare "Reform"

And oversaw 8 straight years of off-shoring without lifting a finger to stop it.

You keep posting and I'll keep laughing.

[Capt. Al]

19. Obama & Reagan

Yeah. Just what we need after 8 miserable years of Bush Republican idealogy...4 more years of Reagan-omics. I can't wait to hear Obama's praise for Reagan's Union Busting expertise.
It appears that the change Obama is talking about is from Bush back to Reagan.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Why lie in your first post?

Obama didn't praise Reagan's Union busting anything.

Deal with the truth at least.

:eyes:

[Capt. Al]

33. Lie?

Expect the worst and you'll never be dissapointed.

[madrchsod]

23. liberals? i suppose

progressives? nope, far from it...

[flordehinojos]

27. it was poppy bush who made the word LIBERAL a durrrty, durrty word.

by the way, long live the liberals!

[robbedvoter]

30. Nope, It was actually ...Raygun. Imagine the irony!

[LulaMay]

28. I agree, LIFE LONG liberals...Obamas Reagan remarks say it all to me

[madrchsod]

29. hillary wasn`t a life long liberal

it was`t till wellesley that she became a liberal.

[LulaMay]

37. Casting back to her teens isn't much of a point, considering her upbringing

It's her record as an adult that matters, and that she was independent enough to decide what her own values are that shows her strength.

[madrchsod]

41. her up bringing has everything to do with who she is now

you need to read everything about her work in chicago as a young lady and her transformation at wellesley. i do not like her as a candidate but we both grew up in the same day and age and i understand where she is coming from.
as one writer put it--hillary was no bomb thrower" and i was one....

[emilyg]

40. Good enough for me.

[Capt. Al]

36. The Republicans are still desperately seeking a candidate...

and we all know how they loved Ronald Reagan.

[OHdem10]

32. Ditto Ditto Ditto----Except I still have to convince mysel on the voting

[Proud2BAmurkin]

34. well he's not batshit crazy like the top 4 GOP contenders nt

[LeftyMom]

39. Other than the lifelong and liberal parts, you might be right.

Obama's got a lot more in common with ol' Bill than either side cares to admit- they both have a knack for verbal Rorschach tests where they say almost nothing and people hear what they want. Hillary's politics aren't far off of either, but she lacks their speaking skills and appealing personality.

[OneBlueSky]

42. um . . . Hillary was a "Goldwater Girl" . . . n/t

.