Did playing the race card work? CNN poll shows Obama making gains among black voters.

[Karmadillo]

It seems to have improved his standing with black Democrats, but both Clinton and Obama lost support to Edwards.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/18/poll.2008/index.html

(CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Clinton has lost a large amount of support among African-Americans, with a majority of black Democrats now supporting Sen. Barack Obama, according to a new poll out Friday.

Sen. Barack Obama has the support of a majority of black Democrats, a poll found.
In a national survey by CNN/Opinion Research Corp., 59 percent of black Democrats backed Obama, an Illinois Democrat, for their party's presidential nomination, with 31 percent supporting Clinton, the senator from New York.

The 28 point lead for Obama is a major reversal from October, when Clinton held a 24 point lead among black Democrats.

"There's been a huge shift among African-American Democrats from Clinton to Obama. African-American Democrats used to be reluctant to support Obama because they didn't think a black man could be elected. Then Obama won Iowa and nearly won New Hampshire. Now they believe," said Bill Schneider, CNN senior political analyst.

"Obama's lead over Clinton among black men is more than 50 points, and among black women, once a Clinton stronghold, Obama has an 11 point advantage," said CNN polling director Keating Holland.

It also appears the recent bickering between Clinton and Obama and their campaigns over race has hurt both candidates. Clinton has the support of 42 percent of all registered Democrats in the new survey, down seven points from last week's CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll. Obama has the backing of 33 percent of those questioned, down three percentage points in a week.

more...

[ccpup]

1. perhaps they were afraid of being accused of having

a "slave mentality" if they voted for someone else :shrug:

Obama doesn't play the race card as long as the african-american community "wakes up and gets it" and votes for him (quote courtesy of Michelle Obama)

[indimuse]

19. and let's not for get what michelle said,,,

now or never again..last chance for romance... lame! and obvious!!!!!!!!!!!

[jenmito]

31. What Michelle Obama said was exactly right talking about people who WANTED to

vote for Obama but were afraid they'd be wasting their vote thinking a Black man couldn't win, but they ARE waking up and realizing he COULD win. IA proved that. It's not that Black people are "afraid of being accused of having a 'slave mentality'"...it's that they WERE afraid a Black man couldn't win.

[Perky]

2. I actually wonder if it really is not a "white Card"

What I mean is that it may have been attempt to bait Obama and his allies into a divisive argument that would have the effect of tagging himself as a candidate who is less than it seems to white voters.

[jackson_dem]

7. They both played the race card. It looks like Obama won

He gained among blacks and hasn't suffered any noticeable decline with white voters in polls nationally.

[Essene]

11. Obama made 1 tiny comment about the MLK diss being "unfortunate"

He rightfully just said it was an unfortunate comment and analogy, which many would take issue with.

Guess he was right...

So stop lying about how Obama "started it" and "played the race card" when the blatant, undeniable truth is that the Clinton camp had spent the previous week making smear after smear after smear... including a whole wave of racialized, baiting comments.

[BeyondGeography]

3. Who played the race card again?

Fool.

[book_worm]

4. Nope it backfired on the Clinton campaign.

and if she's the nominee in November AA may not respond enthusiastically in terms of turnout for her which could mean losing in November.

[Essene]

10. Exactly. And this isnt a "black" issue. All honest democrats should be disgusted.

[bigdarryl]

5. Why is this posted this has been talked about for three weeks now

[Karmadillo]

6. Because the poll showing Obama's playing the race card might be working came out yesterday.

nt

[Essene]

13. but but but let's not talk about it!! The truce, remember?

You know... the truce that Bill Clinton broke the very next day when he said:

"There's still some African Americans who support Barack, even though they like Hillary, because they think he is the first African American to have a chance to be president. And there's a lot of women who are voting for Hillary, even though they like Sen. Obama, because they think it would be better if a woman broke the glass ceiling."

Oh wait, did Bill Clinton really say that? Re-read it a few times.

ALL blacks like Hillary.

Some "still" like Obama because they want a CHANCE at a black president.




And then he played the gender card (lol). Where's the outrage? Where's the media attention? None.

WHY? Because Obama agreed to the truce and isn't addressing their insane, divisive smears. And because the media is too scared to honestly call it like it really is... narcissistic behavior by the Clintons who feel entitlement. Entitlement for the nomination. Entitlement for black voters. Etc.

[EffieBlack]

28. Absolutely amazing

White people can talk about Obama's race all they want - they can poll on it, they can analyze it, they can insist that white people won't vote for him because of it, they can tell him he should wait this one out because America's not ready for it, they can talk about how the fact that he's running proves that race is no longer an issue in America, blah blah blah . . .

But as soon as he starts to look like he could actually win, it's because HE played the race card.

Rich. Too rich.

But sadly predictable, given the backwards attitudes that every now and then slip out in posts like yours.

[TokenWasp]

8. It worked for black people - worked in the opposite direction...

...for white people. His best shot of winning was to be a black guy who transcends race. He has lost that now, and has no shot as a result.

[snagglepuss]

25. I couldn't agree more. Obama transcends race? I don't think so.

[Essene]

26. He only "lost it" in the eyes of those manipulated by the media and clinton smears

Get the facts.

[TokenWasp]

45. Which is the bulk of those voting...

I deal with facts and reality, not pie-in-the-sky fantasies.

[Essene]

9. The Hillary camp RACE BAITED (and it back-fired)

I realize many (perhaps most) people around here are unwilling to see the truth... that Obama did NOT "play the race card," but was in fact baited into a media frenzy set by the Clinton camp. The Clinton camp had for a week been race baiting and engaged in NASTY smearing from all angles, trying to bait the public discourse into racialized tensions. It's standard politics. Bait the black opponent into showing indignation, then say they are playing the race card and hold up black leaders on your side.

There was a huge smear campaign that started the day before the NH primary and continued for like 10-12 days. Even after a "truce" was called, Bill Clinton was race baiting and getting nasty.

This is an inconvenient and uncomfortable truth for party die-hards... but the truth nonetheless.

Consider the facts/sources/quotes of the entire smear campaign:


### Clinton aids confirm race baiting agenda

It isnt a direct quote and it's the Guardian after-all, but it's on record. "Aides believe that, combined with a surge of support among women, Clinton's 'crying' incident, and the possible role of race in bringing white voters to the New York senator's side, they see the makings of a reconfigured strategy to carry the campaign forward." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/11/as-new-hampshire-dust-set_n_81159.html

### He's likely to get assassinated.

Somebody who introduced Hillary Clinton emphasized the comparison with JFK and how he got killed. “Some people compare one of the other candidates to John F. Kennedy. But he was assassinated." The Clinton admin distanced themselves from his comments, calling them inappropriate, but the damage was done. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

### He's no MLK. And dreams need a President not speeches.

She dissed MLK, suggesting REAL change only happened because of President Johnson (not MLK's dream or the civil rights movement). She then implied that he doesn't remotely compare to MLK or Kennedy. "You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches." Sad. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

Let's look at the statements in more detail.

“Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act.” “It took a president to get it done.” (Read: it took a white president)

“You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches. President Kennedy was in Congress for 14 years. He was a war hero. He was a man of great accomplishments and readiness to be president. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. led a movement. He was gassed. He was beaten. He was jailed. And he gave a speech that was one of the most beautifully, profoundly important speeches ever written in America, the “I have a dream” speech. And then he worked with President Johnson to get the civil rights laws passed, because the dream couldn’t be realized until finally it was legally permissible for people of all colors and backgrounds and races and ethnicities to be accepted as citizens."

Somebody remind Hillary that she supported Barry Goldwater back then... o.0

### Al qaeda will strike!!

"Look what happened in Great Britain," she said. "Tony Blair leaves, Gordon Brown comes in, the very next day, there are terrorist attacks." Sorry, but that's a disgraceful comment, directly suggesting terrorists will strike with the election of Obama. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/05/cnr.06.html

### The hip black male who can't provide

In the words of a Clinton adviser: "If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool." http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2238148,00.html

### False hope.

"An untested man who offers false hope." "We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delivered." Clinton herself said this. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_01/012851.php

### Obama just "shucks and jives"

Andrew Cuomo, NY Attorney General, and Clinton fan... came out swingin at Obama after NH primary. “You can’t shuck and jive at a press conference,” he added. “All those moves you can make with the press don’t work when you’re in someone’s living room.” http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Dept_of_word_choice.html

### Hispanics won't vote for him

Clinton pollster Sergio Bendixen: “The Hispanic voter—and I want to say this very carefully—has not shown a lot of willingness or affinity to support black candidates.” http://thepage.time.com/2008/01/12/racial-tensions-a-potential-boost-for-clinton

No... no... that's not an attempt to be divisive and race bait at all.

### "99 problems and a bitch aint one of them."

The New York Post said: "As Obama and his wife, Michelle, strolled triumphantly into his victory party in Des Moines, Iowa, on Jan. 3, Jay-Z's "99 Problems" was blaring. In it, Jay raps, 'I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one.'" Almost the entire article revolves around Clinton spokesperson commenting on the situation. Considering it was blatantly false and easily "checked" with a youtube search, it's fairly naive to believe the Clinton campaign accidentally bought into this lie and would comment on it without intent to give the story life. http://www.nypost.com/seven/01142008/gossip/pagesix/hillary__barack_rap__rock_142152.htm & http://youtube.com/watch?v=rAXAemXaivY

## Obama is an Uncle Tom who was doing drugs when the Clintons were fighting for blacks

BET founder Bob Johnson jumped up on stage with Hillary like a few other spineless black leaders, to attack Obama. The media focused on his comment about Obama's drug use, and Johnson later apologized. However, few cared to notice how Johnson compared Obama to Sidney Poitier's character in “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner.” This is the modern equivalent of calling somebody an Uncle Tom. While Obama accepted the apology, do not believe it's acceptable to careful & critical observers. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/bet-chief-raps-obama-in-sc/

### Blacks support Obama just because he's black.

The day after a "truce" was declared between Clinton and Obama, Bill Clinton went on a viscious but subtle attack with more desperate race baiting. He said: "Hillary has an enormous amount of African American support and Barack Obama has a lot of white people for him," he said in Sparks. There's still some African Americans who support Barack, even though they like Hillary, because they think he is the first African American to have a chance to be president," Clinton said. "And there's a lot of women who are voting for Hillary, even though they like Sen. Obama, because they think it would be better if a woman broke the glass ceiling." Re-read that. He says blacks all like Hillary, but some 'still' like Obama (merely} because he's black. A smart man like Bill doesn't use these words without full grasp. Words like "chance" and "still" are no accidents. Notice he then plays the gender card. This was AFTER the truce. http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-15-bill-clinton-nevada_N.htm

### Obama is just poetry.

She's been stumping with comments about how he's just talking poetry and she's ready to "govern with prose." Cute. " a doer, not a talker." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080107/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_rdp

### Obama is just a fairy tale.

Bill Clinton's rant the other day that i think shocked more than a few of us. Clinton flat out called Obama a liar, said he was a fairy tale. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Muslim (danger danger!).

Several Clinton campaign folks were removed over this. One may argue this absolves her from responsibility, yet anybody paying attention realizes this smear is arguably one of higher impact ones. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/10/second-clinton-volunteer-_n_76047.html

Not like Bob Kerrey and others kept this issue alive in the public dialog or anything, right? http://themoderatevoice.com/religion/islam/muslims/16573/clinton-support-bob-kerry-continues-to-raise-obama-muslim-issues/

### Drug record makes him unelectable.

Top Clinton advisor steps down after making various arguments about how Obama can't get elected due to his drug use. In the context of all the other stuff, this most certainly has racial overtones and will be taken that way by many minorities. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004077664_obama17.html


### Obama is in this only because of blind media.

Bill Clinton also suggested it was "wrong" that Obama has been able to get through 15 debates without being called a liar by the press. He implies the blind, uncritical media is the problem. "The press never reported on" yadda yadda. "Give me a break!" He thought Hillary was going to lose NH and was basically blaming the media for this "fairy tale." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Obama lacks depth and reality.

"On a lot of these issues it is hard to know where he stands, and people need to ask that." "As famously was said years ago, 'Where's the beef?'" Clinton said that herself. In the context of the other smearing, this takes on racial overtones (onfortunately, because it otherwise is fair game). http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1

### Male chuavanism and the gender card.

Folks may reasonably disagree on the interpretation, but she's clearly playing the gender card lately - even implied that her gender alone equates to meaningful change in the White House (just imagine the outcry if Obama said that about being black). She said that in the 1/5/08 debate. Similarly, the spin out of NH is that his comment was rude and poor Hillary's being beaten up on by the boys *tear*. That's how i intepret this spin, and it seems very clear to me. And if you question her crying about her campaign hardships, she implies THAT is male chuavanism too. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530 & http://bourbonroom.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/07/clintons-candid-assessment/

And additionally... i'd like to just focus on this clip from the NH Debate. She was attacked on the issue of likability. She joked that he's likable. He DEFENDED HER in return. She even says "i appreciate that," yet all the Clinton spin doctors (and Rove) are trying to pretend he attacked her. Watch for yourself and be honest. These 2 were just handling an obnoxious question with grace, but now the Clinton base is trying to turn this into a chuavanistic attack by him? Get real. Watch it. It was friendly. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7RuzYvtCw

Lying about a black man's "tone" towards a white woman is easy to get away with in 2008, I guess.

### Obama is Bush 3.0

"He’s very likable . I agree with that…. You know, in 2000 we, unfortunately, ended up with a president who people said they wanted to have a beer with." “I think it’s good to have a likeable president. But if I remember right, many people said they wanted to have a beer with George W. Bush. Maybe they should’ve left it at that – have a beer, don’t vote him in as our president.” It's a slick way to deflect the likability argument, but she even tries to imply this has policy implications, electing an inexperienced guy just because he's likable.

### Flip flopper (abortion swiftboating)

Just watch the ABC debate from 1/5/08. She repeated this charge in various ways, although in fairness she did get into specifics in a few cases (which i think is fair game if you challenge the record itself on the issues). However, for a couple months... this has been her primary charge against him. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530

However, when they intentionally distorted his record on abortion to effectively swiftboat him in NH, that's really the kind of politics the democrats cannot afford in the primary. http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080106/NEWS01/801060396/1043

### Obama is too liberal.

"Hillary's aides point to Obama's extremely progressive record as a community organizer, state senator and candidate for Congress, his alliances with 'left-wing' intellectuals in Chicago's Hyde Park community, and his liberal voting record on criminal defendants' rights as subjects for examination." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/new-hampshire-will-be-key_n_79873.html

### Obama is too conservative.

They claimed he was "unwilling to take a stand on choice." His controversial gay marriage position is a legitimate issue, for sure, but they've tried to paint him as too conservative. http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/hillary_mailer_hits_obama_on_abortion.php

### Obama is soft on crime.

"Mandatory minimums take too much discretion away from judges." "Barack Obama's kind of change is where you sit down and you cut a deal with the corporate world." All the attacks on his record now are going to be cast in racial terms, unfortunately. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/hillary-hits-obama-for

[MethuenProgressive]

30. What a Bull Shit post - all your ###'s are either fiction or spin

[Evergreen Emerald]

12. Of course Obama played the race card. His whole campaign

is about race. "Our time is now," he has Michelle and Lowery telling black people that there is something wrong with them if they don't vote for the black candidate because he is black. They have their surrogates twisting and distorting statements and shouting racism from the rooftops. They send out press releases about the racism of Clinton, and they air ads that talk about how Clinton is not the friend of hispanics.

They are playing the race card. Dirty politics.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Evergreen Emerald]

15. where was I wrong? Everything I said is the truth

It is unfortunate, but true. He is engaged in dirty politics.

[Essene]

16. Clinton camp was race baiting for a week before Obama said 1 word

See my post above which details the facts and gives you sources.

If you sincerely want to delude yourself into believing his entire campaign is about race and always has been, go ahead. You'll find company in the GOP and Fox News board room.

[sniffa]

18. no, no, no.

Obama made them do that.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Adelante]

17. Playing the race card worked exactly the way the Clinton campaign wanted it to work

Racial politics was never in Obama's interest and he knew it. It could only help Clinton. Many black voters were offended when after almost a year's worth of race baiting in the black community, it went public with white Clinton supporters, escalating a situation that already existed since last spring. Blacks moved their support to Obama, not only because of this outrage, but also because Obama showed he could convince white voters to vote for him, something Clinton people had driven home again and again and again to the black community, he could not do. Obama showed them differently in Iowa. Clinton's strategy, however, had essentially turned him into the "Black Candidate" rather than the candidate for all Americans that he is. This is what Clinton needed to work and it worked. Obama was gaining too much acceptance from whites. It was a gamble and the Clintons took a hit for playing it, but it did the job calling up racial identity in order to erode Obama's white vote through perceived exclusion and racial division. Clinton can always get the black vote back if she is the nominee, or so the thinking probably goes. Where is the black vote to go if not to Democrats, right? So it worked, but is it going to hold past South Carolina? That's the mystery. If Obama can pull a strong surprise among white voters to back up his Iowa win in a couple of other states on Feb 5, Clinton's race strategy will have ultimately failed.

[Essene]

23. "Racial politics was never in Obama's interest and he knew it" - EXACTLY. 3 points.

Folks who don't grasp this don't understand race in america, frankly. Glad to see quite a few DU'rs see the truth.

It's like pretending a jewish candidate is going to play the religion/race card when they KNOW any sustained attention to their race/religion is going to be their downfall. It's simply silly to suggest these people at that dumb. Minorities know precisely how dangerous it is to do anything but smile and be "american" at this level of politics. Those implying Obama... after all he's said... intended to "play the race card" are either LYING or truly ignorant of how power (including race) works in america.

Two other points:

It was a gamble and the Clintons took a hit for playing it, but it did the job calling up racial identity in order to erode Obama's white vote through perceived exclusion and racial division. Clinton can always get the black vote back if she is the nominee, or so the thinking probably goes. Where is the black vote to go if not to Democrats, right?

Keep in mind that when divisiveness and racial tensions emerge, minorities often don't turn out at the polls.

Look at the 2001 NYC Mayoral race. Racial divisiveness hit a fever pitch and minority turn-out practically vanished, allowing a Republican to win a race the Dems had in the bag. The potential ramifications of the Clinton race baiting are significant.

I know many blacks who might NOT vote democrat for the first time ever because of just how nasty the Clintons got. Obviously most of the people on this forum either don't want to see it or to admit it, but this did not go unnoticed by many people (black, white, latino, jewish, etc).

If somebody like Bloomberg runs, alienated blacks have a very high chance of going with him vs Hillary. I don't think blacks will be alone in that alienation from the Democratic Party.

This idea that Hillary is going to naturally "get back" these people she's literally taken a poo on is a huge assumption. This doesn't just hurt her... it hurts the party. It's disgraceful. Watching her poo on shift-workers at nevada casinos... on blacks... taken these people for granted... has implications way beyond blacks or casino workers.

More importantly... minorities might just not vote this year because of this divisiveness.

So it worked, but is it going to hold past South Carolina? That's the mystery. If Obama can pull a strong surprise among white voters to back up his Iowa win in a couple of other states on Feb 5, Clinton's race strategy will have ultimately failed.

If Hillary wins SC, especially due to low black turn-out... expect even lower black turn-out on Feb 5th... and then in November. She's racialized this campaign and the public dialog. She's the one who's emphasized the "black vote" and the media are going to focus on it too. If she doesn't win with a majority from black voters, it's going to just stoke a fire that she's tried to put out (but which she started).

If Obama wins SC, it's going to be represented as "black guy wins because of blacks." No matter what the polls and trends are among whites there, this is going to now be made into a white vs black thing in the media. If black turn-out is HUGE, then it might further be represented as a massive rebuttal to Hillary's race baiting.

But since almost nobody in the media is accurately pointing out how she race baited for a week before Obama said a single word, this will look like uppity blacks going with their guy... because HE "played the race card." So, even if he wins... it could cause a huge backlash because race will be the main issue.

People don't want a Black President. They want a President.

The party itself has sustained such severe damage because of the Clintons' narcissism that it could cost the election in spite of their attempts to put the fire out.

If Bloomberg runs... Hillary is going to lose.

[babylonsister]

21. What 'would' you talk about if not the color of Obama's skin? nt

[Pirate Smile]

22. Winning Iowa worked. It proved white people will vote for Obama.

[Essene]

24. Yet if he wins from now on... the media will focus on the "black vote"

Watch.

[EffieBlack]

32. And that scares some other white people (including, obviously plenty of DUers) to death

Obama is these people's worst nightmare - a black man whom white people will vote for.

It scares them for many reasons. One of the reasons is that it rips off their masks of liberalism and racial tolerance and shows them to be the closet bigots that they really are. They talk a good game about civil rights and racial progress, they brag about their black friends and co-workers, they blast Republicans for being backward racists, but in reality, many of these people are just as bigoted as the people they criticize - they just lie about it. But when the possibility of a black man obtaining real power - not just the crumbs that are just enough to look good but not enough to change the balance of power - these folks go into a full-tilt panic, screaming "HE'S PLAYING THE RACE CARD!!!!" and insisting that he's some kind of a radical race pimp.

True colors are coming out and they're not pretty.

[Essene]

35. well said

The sad thing is how many DU-types just go along with this insanity.

I'd have expected this crowd to see the ploys for what they are.

[EffieBlack]

27. It hasn't worked any better than "playing the white card" has for white presidential candidates

over the past 200+ years.

Funny to see some white folks, who have had no problem with the race card being dealt from the bottom of the deck to only the white players at the table all of these years are SHOCKED SHOCKED that one of the black players has gotten hold of the card and is playing it almost as well as they have.

:sarcasm:

[MethuenProgressive]

29. Obama's Swiftboating of Clinton on Race is having Rovian Success.

Obama's Idol Ronnie Reagan would be proud!

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

36. Obama's Swiftboating of Clinton on Race is "all Hillary's doing" ?

You cult members are funny.

[jenmito]

38. Obama did no such thing. The Clinton camp swiftboated Obama with

their bringing up the "thought" that he may have been a drug dealer, that he went to a Madrassa, etc.

[AtomicKitten]

33. You are using race as a weapon.

[jenmito]

37. Hillary played the race card. And although it lost her support among Black voters, it turned Obama

into a "Black" candidate instead of just a candidate with universal appeal. Very low down trick by the Clinton camp.

[MethuenProgressive]

39. "Hillary played the race card." Who told you that?

And how were you told?

[jenmito]

40. I have ears. And a brain. n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

41. So, you have no idea why you believe that, Swiftboat Victim?

That's the way it works.

[jenmito]

42. I KNOW why I believe that. And I posted the reason above. To you.

Read it.

[Metric System]

43. History Lesson

Bill Moyers defends Hillary's MLK/LBJ comment (and plays it in it's entirty) AND provides a history lesson:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/064146.php

[jenmito]

44. It's not about the MLK/LBJ comment. At least not in the reasons I gave. n/t