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Rose Rosetree Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:06 PM
Original message
Cloned Beef -- Soul or No Soul?
"Only God can make a tree," Joyce Kilmer famously wrote. Does God have any active part in making cloned animals? If that cow is 100% cloned, God has 0% active participation. The meat is 100% pure machine. So are the milk and cheese coming from that animal.

Does that matter to you? I hope so. The purpose of this post is to explain why it matters so much to me.

Since I began to investigate auras of cloned animals as part of the new ruling in American food safety, it has been an education for me in many ways. Although I knew that many people didn't read auras yet, I wasn't prepared for the reactions I would receive in some media interviews and online, like the interview with Wireless Flash that began, " Cloned cows are 'steering' one spiritual teacher in the wrong direction."

Even if you don't read auras yet, you deserve some clarification straight-from-the-real-live-physical-shoulder. So here are questions framed from some conversations I've had recently, in media interviews and online:

Q. Why should it matter if food that you eat or drink has no aura?
A. When we eat food, we are eating physical nutrients but we are also taking in the consciousness of the food. If you study ancient wisdom traditions like Chinese Herbal Medicine or India's Ayurveda, you can learn about different properties of consciousness food, how they stimulate different kinds of functioning within the body, for instance whether you are "increasing the metal element" or "aggravating vata."

Ancient wisdom traditions don't discuss eating machines instead of food. And I don't think that's only because such atrocities weren't available 5,000 years ago. Even the great sages who predicted our era, Kali Yuga, a time when falsity would trump truth 99 times out of 100, didn't have the tragic imagination to anticipate a time when human beings would voluntarily eat food with zero energy, no soul within, pure zilch.

Q. Can you be more practical about what it means to eat food with no soul? What's the big deal about eating a Frankenburger?
A. Okay. Is your idea of a great love experience to have an affair with an inflatable doll or a vibrator? Which would you prefer for a friend, a real human being or a robot? And which do you think your body would prefer to eat, a pie or a soft, chewy brick?

Q. But cloned animals can be happy. Look at this photo of Scuppy, the cloned dog. If an animal can be happy, doesn't it have a soul?
A. A mood is not all that inner life means. And, please,check out the photo of Scuppy, cloned by a Korean scientist. (He's easy to find at Google and easier to find at my blog, www.rose-rosetree.com/blog.)

Being able to move doesn't mean happiness. Haven't you ever read kid's books about animals who are humanized by the author? I loved "The Wind in the Willows" as much as the next child, but toads don't really drive motor-cars. Similarly, a dog can run and drool and have bright eyes, but that doesn't mean anybody is home inside. If you don't anthropomorphize, you'll be able to tell the difference. For reading reality and not fantasy, nothing approaches reading auras or doing empathic merges.


Q. Then how can you tell the difference between seeming happy to you and really having something go on inside?
A. Read auras. It's like x-ray ability into the inner person. In my latest book, Cut Cords of Attachment, I say that reading auras is a survival skill for the 21st century. Cloned animals are a case in point. If you can't tell the difference between the surface and deeper energy reality, you might want to learn how to tell that difference. Read auras and you'll receive quite an education.

Q. My initial impression has been that if something is animated, regardless of its origin, it has an element of spirit or soul, else - what else is IN there? How is it alive?
A. Something that is animated can run, like a car. You, being alive, may project aliveness into it. If you're warm and nurturing, like my blog-buddy Colleen, you might name it "Baby." But a car isn't alive.

Machines can have devas, elemental spirits that help make them run. Spiritual life is always present. I've heard a sweet story about the deva who runs the broken down washing machine at Findhorn.

So a cow that has been cloned is a machine that behaves like a cow. It's more like a robot. And such machines have their uses, but not as something to eat.

Q. Do leather goods, having come from live animals, still have residues of auras in them?
A. Yes, of course the energetic residue is there. If you ever study psychometry, you can learn to refine your ability to make contact with the source of an object… that has been owned by someone with a soul.

Q. Why would one seek to come into form in a cloned body?
A. One doesn't incarnate in a cloned body. That's the point. A machine doesn't incarnate. If machines, in animal (or human) are to be mixed in with the rest of us here, it would be like "The Stepford Wives" only without the happy ending. Who would be able to tell fake from real? Aura readers.

In one of my how-to books (Aura Reading Through All Your Senses), there are over 100 techniques. See the part about reading the effect of irradiated juice boxes and other food that is so "well preserved" that it is energetically dead. That's close to cloned, but not as bad.

Q. Does that mean that cloned sheep don’t have souls? I mean, I believe that animals otherwise have animal souls. Would cloned people have souls?
A. Ask animal communicators and they will tell you that animals have individual souls, sometimes more evolved than those of humans who own them. Even a mosquito has a soul, I've learned.

But cloned people? They wouldn't have souls. They would be a kind of biological robot.

Q. What do you think the consequence is of eating cloned food?
A. Really, we don't know, do we? I predict that the consequence is becoming more dead inside with every mouthful. I don't mean poisoned-type dead, I mean half-alive, numb, incurious, and aurically diminished.

Protest the FDA ruling that makes cloned meat legal, and help the USDA to demand that, if it must be produced, it is clearly labeled. For a start, click here: http://www.rose-rosetree.com/blog/?p=180


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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ooookey dokey.
:yoiks:
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hmmmmm
Where's the beef?

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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hmm.
It seems you're confused about what exactly is meant by "soul food."

:crazy:
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm sorry to say that you're probably going to get crucified for this.
Sentience is lost on a lot of folks.
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Rose Rosetree Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Controversy
Fivegan:

Your prediction has been quite accurate, except that fortunately emails do not spit nails.

I'm fascinated, if saddened, that so many people find it hard to handle a warning, kindly intended but a warning nonetheless.

It's not as though reading auras is something other people can't do. I've taught thousands of people my method (Aura Reading Through All Your Senses) and they have done really well. There are so many practical advantages to doing this, and it's a source of joy as well as a survival skill.

And it's not as though I'm the only teacher in the world of this form of spiritual literacy.

I wasn't prepared for how many people at DU have been rude. Though I must say, you've been more polite than responders at Daily KOS. As I told my husband, "It's like going to a MENSA meeting, but without the intelligence."
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. I prefer to approach the issue using...
The Scientific Method.

But if you got 'em, smoke 'em, I guess.





:D


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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Auras? Really?
There are all sorts of biological reasons why eating cloned food may not be wise, without resorting to 19th Century mysticism and supernatural armwaving.

Incidentally, it's precisely the wrongheaded belief that we absorb certain ineffable qualities from different animals that has made Chinese medicine the bane of conservationists. It's just more of that old "If I eat tiger meat, I'll become strong like a tiger" mumbo jumbo.

If you believe cloned people aren't people, trying telling that to any pair of identical twins. They're basically clones, you know.

Honestly, serious debate on the merits and demerits of genetically manipulated food is not helped by couching the argument in superstition.
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Rose Rosetree Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. So you're "debunking" all holistic medicine of THIS century?
Because, honestly, the number of people in America who visit holistic practitioners has exceeded the number of MD visits... for years now.

If you study any form of holistic healing, in contrast to standard allopathic medicine, you will find they all depend on the strength of the human energy field, a.k.a. aura.

Also, I'd like to point out that twins aren't clones. Aurically they are unique individuals. If you read faces of identical twins over 30 years of age, as I have, professionally, you will find that there are numerous facial differences. They all mean something. There is a person alive.

Please, before you attack my professional expertise, and the entire field of mind-body-spirit medicine, or denigrate it as "superstition", try taking a little dose of humility. Or at least manners.
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murray hill farm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. wow....did you know that
for years the James Randi educational foundation has offered one million dollars to anyone who can ACTUALLY see auras? You have to prove it, of course by a series demonstrative tests. As yet no one has even passed the preliminary tests. Hey! Pass that test, pick up the million (u can donate it to paranormal research or some other worthy cause..if you are against earning money with your "gift"). Until then...u might have come to the wrong place to profess that u can see auras.
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Tulkas Donating Member (592 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. And I thought I was the nOOb here
Edited on Sat Jan-19-08 10:08 PM by Tulkas
Thanks for the thread, you make me look good.



But more to the subject......


I look forward to the day when we can use this technology to "grow" only specific parts of animals for us to ingest.

I eat meat, don't get me wrong. Had Pork Chops tonight. Still I would prefer to not raise animals (under sometimes deplorable conditions) simply to put them on an assembly line of death.

If we could just grow the torso of a cow, without a brain or nervous system, I would not have any "beef" about slicing off a chunk and throwing it onto a grill. If I had to kill my own food I may never eat meat again. (fish and other seafood would have to do, maybe poultry on a special occasion)

Also, in the short term cloned animals will simply be used as breeding stock. Is there any information on the auras of the offspring of cloned animals?



EDIT ..... DOH that should link to the original post.... I told you I was a nOOb
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grizmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. There is no such critter as soul
and no such thing as a fictional cloud being

And there is more evidence for the existence of Santa Claus than either.
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Tulkas Donating Member (592 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. I love this last question
****What do you think the consequence is of eating cloned food?
A. Really, we don't know, do we? I predict that the consequence is becoming more dead inside with every mouthful. I don't mean poisoned-type dead, I mean half-alive, numb, incurious, and aurically diminished.****



How high was this guy? Talk about being numb, incurious and dminished !!!!
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Rose Rosetree Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. That guy is a woman, thank you.
My personal policy is to not respond to comments that are gratuitously rude, other than to wonder what's in it for you.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm unaware of any evidence that anyone or anything has a "soul". NT
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teleharmonium Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. this thread has no soul
IMO soul comes from living and being. There is no moral distinction between eating a cloned vs. natural born animal. We have no idea about long term effects of cloning since it is not a mature science by any stretch, so I wouldn't touch the milk (and I don't eat meat or eggs regardless).

Now, once the bring chicken breasts and steaks to market that are grown on plant stalks, THAT might be a moral dilemma. For somebody.
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