For the record, I don't care about Bill Clinton's hummers in the oval office

[proud2BlibKansan]

That is between him and Hillary. BFD. Didn't care then and don't care now.

What I DO care about:

NAFTA

Waco

Welfare Reform that didn't have enough of a safety net

No health care reform

Sanctions against the Iraqi people

And since he left office, his friendship with poppa bush is positively revolting.

Then his behavior on his wife's campaign leaves a lot to be desired.

But no, I don't give a shit about his sexual behavior. For the record.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4115575#4115656

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. Question, just who in the hell do

these people think they are??? Seems as if they breathe rarified air or sumpin'. I hear ya though...

[neutron]

12. Clinton Accomplished More than Any President Before or Since

all while being tailed by the right wing accusing him of everything from
Murder to Theft.

[niceypoo]

25. In terms of actual accomplishments, yes, you are right

He is one of the most accomplished presidents in US history and he did so with one of the most hostile congress' in history.

But don't mention this to Republicans or Obama supporters, it is bad for their blood pressure.

[LaurenG]

2. I'm with you.

[Bonobo]

3. Could not agree more. nt

What I care about is that because of him, what was considered the center was moved so far to the right that Progressives have fallen off the scale into "commie wacko land".

We don't even have a place in the party anymore thanks to him, it seems.

[dmosh42]

8. Hmmm, you have to wonder what room he can use for his BJs! n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. He pulled us to the left and then he went to the right

He lost his base a long time ago. Now he wants us to vote for his wife. Sure, Bill.

[LeftCoast]

4. I don't think it's entirely fair to blame him for failing to pass HC reform

Congress had a little something to do with its failure as I recall.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Are you forgetting the health care industry and big pharm?

And their sudden interest in him??

[THUNDER HANDS]

5. i care

because it affected his ability to be a functioning president for a year, and maybe cost Gore the election - there's no way 2000 should have even been as close as it was.

As for how it affected his relationship with his wife and his family, that's their business.

But it happened on the job, and in a job paid for by taxpayers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Good point.

[TwilightGardener]

6. Do I personally care? No. Did his sex life bring us GWB, a moron

who ran solely on "bringin' honor-n-dignity back to the White House"? Yes. Did he throw the Democratic party into turmoil, wanting to stand by their President but embarrassed by how bad he made us look? Yes. Did he severely hamper Al Gore's chances? Yes. Will he promise to "be good" for the next 4 to eight years? I don't care. I don't want him back as "First Laddie", embarrassing us again. This is not France.

[ladjf]

27. I agree with you. But, I predict you are going to get flamed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Thanks I can handle it

LOL

[global1]

7. Now How Do You Get A Vehicle That Big Into The Oval Office?......nt

[Occam Bandage]

15. While the Clenis is mighty indeed, it can be worked

into virtually anywhere. Some say the tighter the fit, the better.

[sandnsea]

10. Waco shouldn't be put on him

The Koresh investigation was started by Poppy. Poppy was the one who went all crazy over every collecting every gun in the country. Clinton actually stopped a lot of that stuff. Waco happened within a month of Clinton taking office, just days after Reno took office. She took responsibility, but they were using an agency that was still operating under Bush ideology and leadership.

Otherwise, I agree with your statement. Except his lying then has proven to be more important than I realized. I had no idea he was willing to lie about anything, which is what I've seen on the campaign trail. I'll never believe anything they say in office. It's going to be a horrible 4 years. And she won't get a second term.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. If she gets elected at all

I am starting to wonder about her chances.

[sandnsea]

18. Not good against McCain

She's only winning in Dem strongholds. I don't understand why. I think the Obama campaign has got to start putting out more of his record on working for people. She could have beaten anybody else, but not McCain. It'll take a real new government kind of movement to beat him.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. If they nominate McCain, we will HAVE to make the election about the war

The majority of Americans want our troops home. We can beat McCain if we play the right cards on the war.

[sandnsea]

23. It will need to be about a whole new direction

for the country and the world. No more slicing and dicing regions based on resources, no more puppet dictators, a whole new face to the world. If we get bogged down in debating Iraq, we'll lose again. Hillary's foreign policy is so similar to what we have now, and she has no credibility on Iraq, she really can't win that debate. People around here just refuse to acknowledge what she was saying up until she realized she had to support troop withdrawal to win the nomination. She supported the actual war, not just the inspectors.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. I agree but she has a better position than McCain does

[sandnsea]

29. No she really doesn't

If you're going to continue on the basic path we've been on, global power, control resources, then you've got to be willing to occupy places like Iraq. You can't go to the American people and support a war for several years, and then support a shift in policy when you realize your political base is never going to back you. To most American people, that is what is really beyond the pale. The moderate voter will not see it as just changing an opinion based on facts, especially if Iraq continues to appear to be calming. McCain can go back to statements to prove his consistency, his willingness to put the troops on the ground from the beginning, and do it right or not at all. Hillary doesn't have that.

Obama has something completely different. Face to face discussion with enemies. An end to resource fights. Standing up for minority countries as much as white countries. Completely different. He'll win on a new face of America, a new global cooperation, a new road for Iraq. We won't have to have the stupid IWR vote debate because he didn't support it. We can finally argue the merits of our post 9/11 foreign policy. Republicans will lose that debate.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. McCain said he supports our troops in Iraq for 150 years

Whoever gets the Dem nomination needs to focus on THAT. How many Americans do you think agree with McCain?

[sandnsea]

33. Japan, Philippines, Germany, SKorea,

:shrug:

What do you think? If Iraq remains more or less calm, and there is no broader foreign policy alternative presented, yes America will support McCain.

[robbedvoter]

30. Thanks for the Waco part.

[Fabio]

13. I like HRC alot

but I do have issues with her husbands behavior, if only because I have reason to believe that his judgement has not improved since his departure from the Oval Office. I cannot substantiate this here, but I feel fairly knowledgeable in this area. In so much as new news in this area is generated and effects HRC ability to get elected, than I am bothered.

Btw, I deeply hope I am wrong about this -- forget because of politics -- but only because I think HRC deserves better treatment.

[sandnsea]

19. Somebody needs to tell, now

It will come out in the GE. What in the hell is the Party doing? And Hillary surrounds herself with Penn, Carville, and Bill. She chooses these hatchet men who will say anything, true or not. She shouldn't be held less accountable than they are. That's her character. Regardless, if there's any chance we're going to be dealing with "judgement", then for pete's sake let's deal with it now.

[eFriendly]

17. The Clintons have too much negative baggage

that follows them everywhere they go, for my taste. As much as I liked Bill when he was President, they are just too polarizing now.

[Debi]

20. I do care

Well, not about the acts themselves but about how he handled the fall-out when they became public. Had he stepped down and allowed Gore to become President we would not have seen the embarrassing impeachment hearings - the speeches - the books. Gore (and all of our members of Congress) would not have had to run w/that monkey on their back. Clinton's ego and imperial attitude hurt Democrats across America.

I agree with the rest of your post, and take issue with the 'exclusiveness' of the Clintons during Bill Clinton's presidency. Unless a person was a FOB (Friend of Bill) they were...invisible....I doubt that will be any different with a Hillary Clinton presidency.

[lolly]

36. Gore foolishly ran away from Clinton

Gore would have had a better chance if he hadn't listened to RW pundits and had used Clinton in his campaign.

I can't believe how many posters here think that if Clinton had just followed their script and resigned, the Republicans would have turned into nice people who don't smear and lie about their opponents.

One would think the 2004 campaign would have cleared up that bizarre misconception, but it apparently hasn't.

[Debi]

42. My belief wasn't written by the RW. Clinton brought the office of the President

to a new low.

I agree that the scorched earth campaigns by the RW would have continued - but it would have been better for all Democrats not to have to defend their highest elected official with regard to his WH antics and lack of honesty about them.

What a vote to have had cast, whether or not to impeach and convict the President for lying about a blow job or propositioning a woman. I'm pretty sure that no Democrat ran for the US Congress in order to be put in that position. I'm also sure that every Democrat running for re-election would have preferred to not have to run with a vote like that on their record.

Every race that has an incumbent member of Congress who had to vote on that issue with keep that issue alive. All b/c Bill Clinton refused to step down and let a highly competent Vice-President take over the Presidency and not shroud us all in embarrassment for years to come.

[Inspired]

21. I actually do care.

And I know I'm not in the majority here. There are a few reasons why I care.

1. This was not a private affair. This happened in OUR house. He could have taken her to field behind the skating rink where most junior high school boys use girls...but NO...he is brazen enough to do it in one of the most public places of all. Our White House.

2. His legacy and the implications it probably had on the 2000 election.

3. My daughter is almost 21. Yes, that means she is legal but she's a far cry from being a mature woman who understands the long term consequences of her behavior. If that man came close to my daughter...there would be hell to pay. He had zero respect for Monica Lewinsky, for Hillary, for his own daughter. He is NOT a friend of women.

4. He said he did it because he could. WTF?

5. Because cheating on a spouse is a form of domestic abuse. Especially if it is a repeated behavior.

[Seeker30]

35. Every one of those statements

is just completely nuts.

1. It was a private affair, he was residing there, therefore at the time it was HIS HOUSE.

2. It was the actions of repukes pursuing his private affairs that *may* have effected the 2000 election.

3. Your daughter is 21 and still doesnt understand there are consequences for her behavior? My 9 year old understands that!

4. SO WHAT

5. Cheating on a spouse is domestic abuse? Thats a new one, suppose you're all for passing a law that would throw people in jail for cheating.

[Inspired]

39. It's not nuts to me.....sorry.

It's about decency. And by the way....serial cheating is a form of domestic abuse.

[Inspired]

41. And by the way

not all forms of domestic abuse are punishable by the law. It is abuse and you are wrong on this....very wrong.

[lolly]

37. FTR, she wasn't "21"

I mentioned this in the (now-locked) thread about the "21 year old girl," but now I've found the link and yes, the age was slightly off and the exaggeration has been picked up and repeated as part of the right-wing talking point arsenal.

From http://dailyhowler.com/h110998_2.shtml" The Daily Howler:[br />

Monica Lewinsky observed her 22nd birthday on July 23, 1995; she first flashed The Big He three months later. Hence, Clinton never did have an affair with that “21-year-old-intern” whom the press so dearly love. Nope--when Bill first gazed on Mo-mo’s thong, she was already twenty-two years of age. In fact, as we’ve pointed out in THE HOWLER before, she was almost 22 and a half!

But it just sounds so much better to say “21” that it has now become a press corps urban legend; it’s de rigeur to misstate Mo-mo’s age. We first chuckled about this a few weeks ago, when we showed how figures within the conservative press have misstated Mo’s age in the Washington Times (see “Forever young,” 10/8/98). But as it turns out, it isn’t just the conservative press which is mouthing this fun-but-false line!

See how easy it is to run off on RW talking points?

To those of you who might say this is insignificant, ask yourself why it's been so doggedly and insistently repeated, despite multiple attempts to correct the facts? The younger they meke her, the worse they make Clinton look (and why hasn't anybody ever made a little-bitty error in the other direction?)

Also, as I said there, it's important to remember that she never claimed harrassment or sued. She tried to avoid testifying at all. They threatened her mother on some trumped-up tax violations, and then locked Monica in a hotel room incommunicado to try to coerce her to say what they wanted her to say.

She was victimized, all right. By Star and his inquisitors. But apparently, that was OK.

[Inspired]

40. He was still a married man regardless of her age.

And he was a pig.

[ladjf]

26. His office dalliances concern because they indicate to me that he has

a serious psychiatric problem. That poses a hazard for the best interest of the U.S.

[donheld]

28. I didn't care 10 years ago and I don't care today

It was just part of the witch hunt. Sadly some DU members seem to still be part of that witch hunt.

[Cha]

34. Yeah, I don't give a

crap about who clinton screwed in the oval office..it just showed a level of interest in the People of this country that his(or should I say hillary too?) triangulation with goperves' trying to impeach him, showed.

[stravu9]

38. I Agree, bj's have Nothing to do with POLICY...

I agree with everything you've said.