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Watch It, Democrats, You Could Still Slip Up: "Serious vulnerabilities in both front-runners"

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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 12:53 PM
Original message
Watch It, Democrats, You Could Still Slip Up: "Serious vulnerabilities in both front-runners"
WP: NOT AGAIN
Watch It, Democrats. You Could Still Slip Up.
By Paul Starr
Sunday, January 20, 2008; B01

Until recently, like most liberals, I was convinced that 2008 was going to be a Democratic year. While Republicans have been listless and divided, Democrats have been passionate and enthusiastic about their candidates for president. An unpopular war, a sinking economy, a general sense of conservative exhaustion: All pointed toward a Democratic triumph in November. A lot of conservatives had come to grudgingly agree and were preparing to spend four years in political rehab. But after the first rounds of caucuses and primaries, the prospects don't look so rosy for the Democrats or so bleak for the Republicans. The presidential race now looks like a tossup -- perhaps even with a Republican edge. If Democrats don't stay smart, tough-minded and realistic, we could blow it yet again.

The first problem is our likely foe. Especially after his victory in South Carolina, Sen. John McCain has a plausible route to the GOP nomination, and he remains by far his party's best bet for holding on to the White House. The Republican field has been so preoccupied with appealing to the party's hard-core base that it seems that the eventual winner will have little appeal to the independent voters who can swing a general election. Even McCain started out by embracing the evangelical Christians he had once denounced. But as his seemingly dead campaign has been reborn, his initial efforts to pander to the religious right have been forgotten, and he is once again happily running as a "maverick." Though his nomination is hardly guaranteed, the Arizona senator would provide the GOP with a powerful mix of continuity and change -- continuity with the Bush administration on Iraq at a moment when it has become conventional wisdom that the "surge" is succeeding, and a sense of change and freshness from McCain's cheerfully frank past deviations from conservative orthodoxy.

But the major reason I see trouble ahead for the Democrats is that voting patterns so far, as well as rumbling tensions over race and gender, suggest serious vulnerabilities in both of the Democratic front-runners that McCain (or another rival) could exploit. Most pundits assume it's the Republicans who have the weak field, but the leading Democrats -- both attractive and impressive people -- carry dangerous downsides of their own.

Sen. Barack Obama appeals strongly to affluent whites and minorities -- the old John Lindsay coalition -- but he seems to lose working-class whites. Moreover, if the pollsters turn out to have been wrong in predicting the outcome in New Hampshire in part because of the "Bradley effect" -- that is, the polling tendency to overestimate the number of votes a black candidate will win because some bigoted whites refuse to speak to pollsters or claim to be undecided -- then Democrats may also be deceiving themselves about the Illinois senator's chances in the general election. National surveys that show Obama beating various Republicans may be overstating his potential share of the vote.

For her part, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has done better at appealing to lower- and middle-income whites, especially women. But her loss to Obama among male voters in New Hampshire suggests that just as race may block Obama's path to the presidency, so gender may obstruct hers. That's hardly a surprise, of course. But Democrats have been so excited about the prospect of a historical breakthrough that many of them seem to forget that plenty of voters are still swayed by old prejudices....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/18/AR2008011802870_pf.html
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ryanmuegge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's already starting.
The press is going to attack us even worse than they did in '04.
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. is that chewing tobacco sticking out of the side
of McCain's face?
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. Ya Got That Right... ANSWER... John Edwards!
:)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #23
38. John Edwards is no longer a factor in this race.
It's doubtful that he'll even have "kingmaker" potential. He certainly should stay in as long as he wants, but even his top advisors (per the NYT today) say that he's unlikely to win a single primary. His chances evaporated in Iowa.
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surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. JOHN EDWARDS Has ALWAYS BEEN THE A N S W ER
Oh Yes and he is still, just waiting for his time to come.
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Absolutely!
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. We thank Mr. Starr for his concern but are likely to maintain registration as
Democrats all the same.

We had 8 announced candidates for the White House when we started. The Republicans had even more, but the Republicans got nobody. They're all duds, dead people, crooks, hacks, psychos, propagandists, and fear-mongers.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. McCain will lose worse than Goldwater. By next fall the "surge"
will still be in full force & will have failed. He will run on a theme of belt tightening
Social Security & Medicare. Good luck.
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. I am very worried about a McCain candidacy.
I think he's the only Republican presidential candidate that could beat us. The few Republicans I know are all very moderate. They are sick of Bush and are primed to vote Democratic this year -- unless McCain gets the nomination.
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. 'member when McCain hugged the pRes - and got a nice kiss on top of his head?
That was a contract - and I b'lieve they mean to fulfill it.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I agree. I've been saying this for some time now
It looked like McCain was dead in the water for a while there, but he is the only one
who will be trouble. I also feel that if it is NOT McCain, Democrats have a good chance to
win Arizona. With McCain...not so much.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Does the nation want 100 years of war? Hillary will run against Bush - the same
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 01:10 PM by robbedvoter
way she did in 2000 with Lazio, in NY She started it in the last debate.

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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. Ask a republican this and get back to me:
Which would you choose -- ending the war in Iraq or stopping an HRC presidency?

75% of the country may be against the war, but don't kid yourself on where that falls on a lot of people's priority lists.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Agreed
McCain can repaint himself as acceptable enough for moderates and Independents if he can get past the usual suspects at the helm of the RNC.

I still think the distinct possibility of a GOP brokered convention might make all this even more unpredictable. Jeb Bush? Dick Cheney? Colin Powell? Schwartzkopf?

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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Show them that pic of McCain hugging Bush. That should do it.
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. McCain should be in Assisted Living
enjoying his golden years. Too much has to be cleaned up.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. Some people still think he is a "maverick."
Wasn't that a crappy car by Ford in the 70s?
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. 75 maverick was my first car How dare you!
Just about everything broke on that damn car. :)
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Almost as bad as a Pinto or Gremlin
We had a crap American Motors car, my dad called it a lemon, a Hornet. It was always in the shop for something. Then he switched back to VWs again. :)
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. I had a sinking feeling, watching his victory speech last night. nt
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. this is not an attack. it is a straight-laced analysis that isn't mincing words.
I fear there's much truth there.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. WaPo always had our best interests at heart, And grandpa McCain is soo scary:
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. he will be if repubs vote him in.
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 01:11 PM by sojourner
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. More "advice" from the enemy
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Do not underestimate McCain
The only way the media would not give him a free pass is if he ate a baby on national TV on the steps of the Capitol building and even then they would be torn as to how to cover it.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Media, schmedia - have you heard him talk? What he's saying???
People are tired of war! Of Bush. Hillary will paint him as his surrogate.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. That could depend on what wars are happening in six months,
and how those wars are being played.
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angie_love Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
36. ..
Hillary can't use the war as an issue if she VOTED FOR IT. The war will be a non issue if Hillary wins the nom, trust. All McCain has to do if Hillary says anything about the war is "but you voted for it, now you're against it?'. He'll paint her as a flip flopping politician.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. LOL - so true
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. THIS JUST IN
John McCain discovers new way to harvest stem cells!
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. Prediction: McCain will NOT get the nomination. His wins have
been in primaries where independents were allowed to vote; he loses the Repub core and will not win in closed primaries. His basic constituency is the MSM, and warmongering is not a winning platform.
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
19. Much ado about nothing.
If anything, this will be a bigger democratic win than the slam dunk I initially thought it would be.

Is the economy is going to get better? Nope.
Are soldiers going to stop getting killed in Iraq? Nope.
Are people going to suddenly get re-invigorated over conservatism? Nope.

All this worrying about "electability" is wasted energy when talking about the 2008 GE.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
20. Why we need Edwards
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 01:33 PM by OzarkDem
1. He's not as vulnerable as Clinton or Obama, both of whom carry a lot of personal and professional baggage that will be exploited

2. He will fight the smear machine instead of ignoring or spinning

3. He has a much stronger policy platform that helps him stand above media attacks

I noticed much preening of GOP candidates on MTP this morning, a sure signal that the corporatists and media have decided Edwards is neutralized and that its safe to move to Phase 2:

1. end the media's "kid glove" treatment of Obama and Clinton and switch it to the GOP front runners

2. start trying to extract more promises from Obama and Clinton campaign in exchange for their support

Phase 3 will begin after the primaries when, if a vulnerable Dem candidate wins, they will begin withdrawing financial support of their campaign.



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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
40. this is just getting ridiculous. Edwards is not going to be the nominee
and virtually all of your "reasons" that he'd win are simply opinion with nothing rooted in fact. He put all his eggs in Iowa. He lost there, and that was that.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. If there is enough of a fear scenario in the world picture
and we are in some way or other further entangled with "enemies", then the swayable voters might be convinced to vote for McCain over Hillary. With a more heightened fear scenario I think McCain would do well over Obama. I think Edwards would do best up against McCain as far as the public would be concerned if the world scene gets more dangerous.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
24. Everyone should read this
and think very seriously about what he's saying. The current front-runners are very vulnerable.

The corporations and media are not abandoning the GOP in this race, they're merely giving the illusion of doing so. They have the power to turn on the pressure and cut off the money in an instant. Don't assume they won't.
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stravu9 Donating Member (945 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. Without Edwards we might as well get ready for more Republicans in the White House.
IMO
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Exactly.
Anyone else is part of the machine that rules Washington. The others won't dismantle that machine.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
41. what nonsense. And virtually none of the objective data out there
supports your claim. Give it up.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
32. I think people aren't living in reality if they don't pay attention to this.
He makes very good points. None the least of which, I have been saying here for months and that is the numbing of the base. If the base elects a status-quo ho-hum candidate, the electricity isn't there and the urge to GOTV isn't there. Not like there would be if we thought we had a fighting chance as opposed to a battle of the ad agencies (which is what this will turn into).
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
39. Sad campaign that the Edwards supporters are running. Vote for me because I am a white man.
Edited on Mon Jan-21-08 08:53 AM by Mass
And some Edwards supporters are saying that we are hateful of their candidate.

Seems to me that he is the one who wants to capitalize on people's meaner instincts to win. (Well, I saw one of his supporters compare him to George Wallace yesterday -- on the economic side, granted, but still. Not sure I would want to be compared with him in any point).

And, BTW, no Bradley's effect in NH. Polls simply do not show it. White males voted for Obama, not Edwards and not Clinton. Women, though, got fed up by the attacks on her as a woman and reacted accordingly!
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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
42. That is the Washington RAG that others ALWAYS point to 'round here.
Folks: BEN BRADLEE is GONE; Kay Graham is GONE.

It AIN'T the Woodward-Bernstein "Post" anymore (to wit, "cheerleading for the Iraq war!")
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