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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:38 PM
Original message
Winning ugly
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 04:49 PM by babylonsister
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/michael_tomasky/2008/01/winning_ugly.html

Winning ugly

US elections 2008: Hillary Clinton's victory in Nevada may be a hollow one if her husband continues to hurt her campaign
Michael Tomasky
January 19, 2008 11:00 PM


Well, it wasn't big and it sure wasn't pretty - in fact it was downright ugly - but Hillary Clinton's win in Nevada gives her an advantage now over Barack Obama in the Democratic contest.

The effect of the result is perhaps most easily grasped by envisioning the counterfactual. Let's say Obama had won. In that case, the media would have been full of reports about how the underdog (which he assuredly is) had regained momentum, had knocked the powerful Clinton machine back on its heels a second time, and seemed primed to win next Saturday's match-up in South Carolina. In that state, and in the 22 states voting on February 5, sit hundreds or thousands of political operatives who, if Obama had won, would be on the phone with one another right now asking if they should go ahead and get with Obama, emboldening one another to buck the mighty Clintons. But now Clinton has held that effect off - at least for a week, perhaps for more, perhaps for good.

But she has held off such talk at a price. First, the win was narrow - not big enough for her to take a large helping of momentum into South Carolina. (While she won 51% of the vote compared with Obama's 45%, he managed to pick up more convention delegates.) I would expect that she'll still need a convincing win in South Carolina to start putting real distance between herself and Obama. And, as we know, it's the only state where he's been consistently ahead in polls.

The Nevada results can change that, which we'll start seeing in a new batch of polls in the next two or three days. Whether John Edwards stays in the race after today's anemic showing in Nevada may have a big impact on how things turn out next Saturday, as it's generally thought that he takes more votes from Clinton there.

Clinton may also have paid a price by dint of the fact that this was a dirty, bitter race. Obama didn't completely wrap himself in glory, and he probably erred in praising Ronald Reagan and calling the Republican Party the party of "ideas" in recent American history. But the Clinton campaign twisted those words and a lot more.

I don't know who on this planet has the stature to go face-to-face with Bill Clinton and look him in the eye and tell him he behaved in a discreditable fashion. His wife? His buddy Vernon Jordan? Whoever it is, someone had better stop him. He campaigned against a fellow Democrat no differently than if Obama had been Newt Gingrich. The Clinton campaign may conclude that, numerically and on balance, Bill helped. But, trust me, to the thousands of committed progressives who supported him when he really needed it, who went to the mat for him at his moment of (largely self-inflicted) crisis but who now happen to be supporting someone other than his wife, he's done himself a tremendous amount of damage.

The final price of victory is the splintering of base Democratic voters. African Americans solidified behind Obama, 79-18%. Hispanics, behind Clinton, 64-23%. Young voters went heavily for Obama. Old voters heavily for Clinton. These divisions threaten to flower into schisms. There will be plenty of time to put the pieces back together. But if Clinton becomes the nominee and black voters feel that Obama was treated unfairly ... well, let's imagine that black voter turnout in November is down by 10% in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio. That could mean the difference between victory and defeat in those three states.

But that's a long way away. For tonight, she's a winner. It wasn't all Bill's negativity, of course - her campaign really got its vote out and she showed her usual doggedness. But if she's going to win the nomination and unite the party, she's going to need to show more.
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Hurt her campaign"? She's winning. nt
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You must have donated like a $1000 to DU or something.
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I argued against one of the comments in the OP article. Is that breaking the rules
:shrug:
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. No, I just mean generally.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:46 PM
Original message
who the fuck are you to say that?
You've been here less than a week and you're calling people out?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. The scoreboard is 3:1
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. No, it is 1:2
;)
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. a calulator would assist your math skills
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Let me help you with that.
New Hampshire = 1
Michigan = 0
Total: 1

Iowa = 1
Nevada = 1
Total: 2

See! Easy. :)
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. Now here ye here ye! the latest rhetorical anti-Hillary dart!
Bill is being a bad boy & it's gonna hurt 'em!
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gaiilonfong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. your denial is beyond laughable
as are all the DLC Clintonistas.

Better wake up Clinton lovahs before it is too late, actually it may already be too late...Oh well

Hope like your patroness Taylor marsh you like President McCain
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Why are you following me around here like a hungry dog?
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gaiilonfong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Do any of you Clinton supporter believe in FREE SPEECH?
Wow sorry that was a stupid question!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. sure we do, but we do not like UGLY speech
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. You mean FREE SLUR?
Don't you know it's a give-away when a troll starts in with the free-speech shit?
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Oh Cybil ..... hush!
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Tomansky is taking the talking points from the right wing I see.
So any win by Hillary is "ugly" and any win by "Obama" is "glorious"? :puke:
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gaiilonfong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. like you spew Taylor marsh DLC talking points!
OH I see!
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. Winning UGLY will fracture the party behind repair, but the Clintons haven't thought it out that far
They may be able to BULLDOZE the nod, but their tactics will guarantee a Democratic backlash which will manifest itself UGLY in the GE.
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. No it won't. Bill Clinton is in SC going door to door mending the fence even before it breaks
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. He isn't "mending fences" in SC --- He's creating chaos & resentment in the party.
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gaiilonfong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. It is already BROKEN
take a gander around the internets to the African American blogs...IT IS TOO LATE!
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Actually they probably have
They figure they can come back to the disaffected voters to smooth things over later and they won't have anywhere to go but Hillary. They will make the usual arguments: do you want a Republican in the WH, Obama and Hillary are similar enough on most policy, we can put a woman in the WH and so on.

But if they go too far . . .
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. and Obama could have shown himself to be a Leader had he come out immediately
and say that what Sen. Clinton said about MLK was not racial.

Instead he let a toxic stew build up. That was UGLY!
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. And every left wing blog and right wing talker...
took that smear against the Clinton's as did a certain unworthy junior Senator from Missouri.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. Excellent article nt
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. I'm glad someone liked it!
;-)
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Pleased to make you glad
:)
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yeah..I wish Obama would clean up his act..
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&merceR
It's dirty, and it does not bode well for the GE.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
18. Schisms are off the map this year. The other choice is a Pug. Whoever is the nominee
must get our undivided and undiminished support. And that means "period"!
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. Whatever it is that Bill Clinton is doing, it is working.......
He worked those caucuses with the enthusiasm of a much younger person and the results showed - 7 out of 9 on the strip for Hillary?

Is that writer British?
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. "worked those caucuses with the enthusiasm of a much younger person"
right on suston96. He made them feel that their voice would be heard and their vote counted.
And I applaud him for going out and working so hard for Hillary, after all ...she did the same (and more) for him for decades.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
23. Karma is a hell of a thing
She can stomp her little feet through to the convention all she wants, but every bit of this will come back to haunt her if she wins the nom.

It will be the Integrity Express, non-stop, 24/7 reminding people why they didn't like her the first time around.

Be prepared, democrats.

Vote smart.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
28. DU needs to open up a "Sore Loser" section.
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