Obama calls out Bill Clinton. About Time.

[Barack_America]

Also from dailykos:

Obama calls out Bill Clinton. About Time.

by poblano

Since the Iowa Caucus, the Clintons have run an increasingly dishonest campaign. The laundry list of grievances is long, but would include:

1. Distortion of Obama's position on the Iraq war (the first of the two specifics that Obama mentions).
2. Distortion of the mechanics of the at-large caucuses on the Las Vegas strip (the second think that Obama mentions).
3. Hillary's non-apology for Bob Johnson's comments.
4. Hillary's failure to distance herself from the teacher's union lawsuit against the at-large precincts.
5. Distortions of Obama's position on Yucca mountain.
6. Allegations of fraudulent behavior by Clinton supporters in the Nevada caucus.
7. Allegations of robocalls against Obama in Nevada.
8. Hillary's borrowing of right-wing frames on the Levin Amendment.
9. Hillary's hypocrisy in calling out Obama on his remarks about Ronald Reagan, when she's made similar statements herself.
10. Hillary's failure to be accountable for her comments about Gordon Brown and the 9/11 card.
11. Hillary's accusing Obama of starting the "race war" on Meet the Press.
12. The blatantly misleading mailer on Obama's position on social security.
13. The blatantly misleading mailer on Obama's position on abortion.
14. Hillary's claiming she wanted the 2001 bankruptcy bill to fail, even though she voted for it.

Some of these complaints are more tangible than others. For me, #8 and #12 tell you the most that you need to know about how she's chosen to run her campaign, as they both borrow heavily from right-wing frames.

I believe that how somebody runs their campaign tells you a lot about how they're going to run their White House. Although Obama is not perfect, I believe that he has run an essentially honest campaign, whereas the Clintons have run an essentially dishonest campaign.

"This is part of what we have to change. You know, folks willing to say anything just to get elected."

It's about time. Thank you, Barack.

More

ETA: This post was in response to what Obama is planning to say about Bill tomorrow, originally per Drudge:

EXCLUSIVE: OBAMA RIPS INTO BILL CLINTON MONDAY DURING ABC INTERVIEW WITH 'GOOD MORNING AMERICA' HOST ROBIN ROBERTS... SAYS HE FEELS LIKE HE RUNNING AGAINST BOTH CLINTONS... Bill 'has taken his advocacy on behalf of his wife to a level that I think is pretty troubling. He continues to make statements that are not supported by the facts. Whether it's about my record of opposition to the war in Iraq or our approach to organizing in Las Vegas. This has become a habit and one of the things that we're gonnna have to do is to directly confront Bill Clinton when he's making statements that are not factually accurate'... DEVELOPING....

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4162996&page=1">ABC Link


Feel free to bookmark this. I'm sure that we'll have a few items to add to the list in no time. :eyes:

[journalist3072]

1. What I will feel free to do, is call B.S. on your post. eom

[Barack_America]

3. You are suggesting that I fabricated this?

:shrug:

[jefferson_dem]

7. Put your thick skin on.

This poster is big on insults...short on rational discussion.

[Essene]

20. Not to mention all the other wonderfully nasty posters =)

Heaven forbid you suggest the Clintons do anything wrong or dirty!

They will turn it into Obama acting like a nazi.

[Barack_America]

28. Step on in...

...Just between you and me, sometimes I like to play sweet before I go completely bitch on someone. Let's see if this guy takes the bait. ;)

[here_is_to_hope]

44. I would take you up on this but

I see no star next to your user name.
:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[Barack_America]

48. You know...

...I've been meaning to fix that. Check back in five minutes.

ETA: Better?

[here_is_to_hope]

99. I still dont want to wrestle you....

:scared: :hide: :hi:

[still_one]

6. Are you saying that Bill Clinton was completely accurate about Obama? /nt

[still_one]

23. OK, so if something is said false, Obama should NOT respond, huh? /nt

[Perry Logan]

2. It is my experience that all of the accusations made by Obamites are crap.

[Barack_America]

5. You are confused. I did not write this. Please check the link.

Thank you.

[still_one]

12. You must be part of the MSM I bet. Do you own stock in Disney? /nt

[jefferson_dem]

4. Way to go, Obama!

Truth to "Power"!

:kick:

[Justyce]

8. Calling out a popular former president with a very high approval rating...

Not a very good idea IMO. That could cost him some votes, unless he handles it with extreme tact.

[still_one]

18. Where is the latest poll on Bill Clinton? I do not mean when he was in office, I mean now?

In addition, whether someone is popular or not if they distort your record, are you saying he shouldn't respond?

[Essene]

22. His approval as President has little to do with peoples' view of him as a person *cough*

I dont think people want him in office again... and Hillary has a 40-45% "dislike" rating in america.

So... reality check.

[still_one]

27. The point is if someone lies about you, then you better respond no matter who does it

That was one lesson that should have been learned from the 2004 election

[Justyce]

36. What exactly did WJC say that was a lie? All I'm seeing are

candidate X hinted at a distortion or an exaggeration on this or that, which both camps have been doing IMO. But I haven't seen anything WJC has said that was a blatant lie. I also think BOTH camps better get a grip before they turn off anymore voters with this childishness.

[Barack_America]

45. Check out the ABC article. I just added the link...n/t

[still_one]

75. I.don't know if it was a lie, distortion or whatever, however,

I do agree with you that both campaigns better get a grip

[aquart]

81. But...shouldn't you?

How do you know the truth if you don't know the truth?

[still_one]

98. Interesting, that is the trap. It will result in a focus, NOT on the issues

but on distractions

That is what happened in 2006, it wasn't about the issues, it was about Kerry's service in Viet Nam. The republicans are expert in this, i.e., Let's bring up a flag burning amendment or a Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage

As far as what the truth is, what do we base that on?

I do not believe because someone says something about someone else that makes it necessarily true. What if speeches are taken out of context, i.e., When Khrushchev made the statement "...We will bury you..." during the cold war, when the context being referred to was bury you economically

Is there an absolute truth? I don't know, but I do know there are voting records, and complete contexts of speeches thanks to the internet

I also know that during the mccarthy period, if you were accussed of being a communist, whether true or not, it didn't matter if you weren't, you still carried the label

[Essene]

43. Unless you are black and the issue is race... cuz you'll be blamed for "pulling the race card"

For example.

[aquart]

92. Especially if you've done it just to get black votes in a Southern state.

It's heinously cynical thing to do. But my mom says I need to look at it more practically. Obama did what he had to and it worked.

[aquart]

94. Totally agree.

Best make sure you respond with the truth, of course.

[aquart]

77. Amazing how that dislike brings them to the polls to vote for her.

I'm quite shocked.

[Essene]

80. In the Dem primary... in which she's behind on delegates... yes.

[MADem]

9. Well, that list isn't the 'juicy' bit. The DRUDGE exclusive that the KOS poster cites is

Specifically:

According to The Page and Matt Drudge (edit: also ABC News), Barack Obama has directly confronted Bill Clinton in taped remarks that are to air on Good Morning America tomorrow.

As Drudge has it in his typical Drudge-y style:

EXCLUSIVE: OBAMA RIPS INTO BILL CLINTON MONDAY DURING ABC INTERVIEW WITH 'GOOD MORNING AMERICA' HOST ROBIN ROBERTS... SAYS HE FEELS LIKE HE RUNNING AGAINST BOTH CLINTONS... Bill 'has taken his advocacy on behalf of his wife to a level that I think is pretty troubling. He continues to make statements that are not supported by the facts. Whether it's about my record of opposition to the war in Iraq or our approach to organizing in Las Vegas. This has become a habit and one of the things that we're gonnna have to do is to directly confront Bill Clinton when he's making statements that are not factually accurate'... DEVELOPING....



That's ... er...petulant, in print, anyway. It may play better on tee vee.

[Barack_America]

13. Yes, the Drudge quote has been posted elsewhere...

But thanks for reposting!

[MADem]

33. Obama is learning. He's trying to get in front of the bad news cycle about this story

It is old, but it keeps turning up like a bad penny. A real drip, drip, drip thing. I personally don't see it as a big deal, but then again, a lot of the crap tossed at other candidates really isn't a 'big deal.' But the press, if they choose, can make it one

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/749138,obama20web.article

Obama surfaces in Rekzo's federal corruption case
Source confirmed Obama is the unnamed "political candidate" referred to in document which outlines case against Rezko

January 20, 2008
BY DAVE MCKINNEY, NATASHA KORECKI, CHRIS FUSCO AND TIM NOVAK Staff Reporters
For the first time, Democratic White House hopeful Barack Obama has surfaced in the federal corrupton case against his longtime campaign fund-raiser, Tony Rezko, the Chicago Sun-Times has learned.

The Illinois senator isn’t accused of any wrongdoing. And there’s no evidence Obama knew contributions to his 2004 U.S. Senate campaign came from schemes Rezko is accused of orchestrating.

[Essene]

47. It is smart to make it seem like it's Obama vs Bill. Reminds people how Hillary came to power...

Yes, i said that.

I respect Hillary Clinton as a very smart and capable person, but she wouldnt be Senator Clinton without being Bill's wife. She's done fine as a Senator, but that's not the point.

Bill has become too much of the attention and Obama's going to use that against HER.

[MADem]

74. You feel free to keep thinking that.

I will wager the strategy will be somewhat "less than successful"--to put it very mildly-- but your mileage will of course vary.

We'll see who has the most tread on their tires at the end of the race, won't we?

[Essene]

85. Ya, you just sit and wait until another Clinton is President. Hold your breath.

[MADem]

86. Don't assume that I am your opposite number, and possessed of your ardent advocacy.

That would be erroneous.

But then, that wouldn't be the first time, either.

[Barack_America]

56. Um yeah, okay. I just hope you aren't supporting Clinton...

...Because if you are, I have many words I could say to you, but for now I'll say just two:

Norman Hsu.

[MADem]

71. The same Norman Hsu who donated to Obama? The same Norman Hsu who hooked Obama up with his

BIGGEST fundraiser, and the guy who sits on his FINANCE COMMITTEE???

The same Norman Hsu whose contributions Clinton returned, but Obama did not? Instead, he "donated them to CHARITY"--basically, raising his altruistic profile on TAINTED money.

That Norman Hsu? Is that the fellah you mean?

Don't bring an empty, "internet" threat without doing all your research. It doesn't enhance your profile as an honest broker.

Here, let me get you started, so you don't make that same sillybilly mistake again:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090703047.html

Hsu Steered Major Fundraiser to Obama

Campaign Acknowledges Link to Democratic Donor Who Is Now Under Arrest

By Matthew Mosk and John Solomon
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, September 8, 2007; Page A05

Before becoming a major bundler for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign, disgraced Democratic donor Norman Hsu helped host a 2005 California event for Barack Obama's political action committee and introduced the senator from Illinois to one of the biggest fundraisers for his presidential bid.

Federal Election Commission records show that Hsu gave $5,000 to Obama's Hopefund PAC in connection with the fundraiser and that people publicly identified with Hsu and his companies gave an additional $19,500 to the PAC in 2005 and 2006.


Mark Gorenberg, who now sits on Obama's national finance committee and is one of his biggest fundraisers, said Hsu organized an early 2005 event for the Hopefund and invited him to help raise money.... .Gorenberg said he is worried about Hsu. "Despite it all, I still love the guy," he said. "Despite everything you read, every experience I ever had with him was nothing but delightful, and I just scratch my head."

[Barack_America]

88. $850,000...and she didn't even want to give it back!

Seems like Hillary promised him a whole lot more!

You tell me who's for sale.

The Clinton campaign, after initially returning Mr. Hsu's $23,000 in direct donations but saying it saw no reason to return the contributions he solicited, plans to toss back the entire bundle now that it has become a political hot potato.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/11/AR2007091101970.html

[MADem]

90. Uh, oh. That lame attempt at deflection failed. Hsu introduced Obama to his Sugar Daddy.

The guy is working on Obama's campaign, too.

Let's review. Who gave BACK the money, and who didn't?

Having a little cognitive dissonance?

You should be.

[aquart]

93. Sugar Daddy? You mean Rezko?

Or does he have several?

[MADem]

96. Mark Gorenberg. Largest BO donor. Introduced to O by Hsu. Now serving on his finance committee.

Light reading:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090703047.html?hpid=topnews

[Barack_America]

95. Not a deflection. HUGE difference between....

$850,000 and twenty, some-odd thousand.

I mean, which would you rather have.

Obama may have gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar, but Hillary was in the fucking cookie jar.

And he gave the money to charity...you need to read your own link (also, his campaign manager gave an update of that today regarding the Rezko donations as well, in case you missed it).

But I don't expect any of this to make sense to you, so whatever.

[MADem]

97. Huge difference, all right. Who introduced BO to Moneybags Mark? Why, HSU did!

Who got rid of his naughty dough AFTER HRC did? Why, BO did!

You brought it up. Reap and sow.

I said he gave the dough to charity. What, you didn't understand that sentence with the word "altruistic" in it?

What makes sense to me are your lame and unsucessful obfuscation efforts. It's the only way you can backpedal out of a mess of your own making.

You're the one that fired the first snarky little shot on this Hsu shit, after all, not ME.

And you got bagged, and embarrassed yourself, because you didn't have the full story. Blowback can get pesky.

[Barack_America]

101. You're quite good at deflecting yourself.

So I guess that Hillary is completely in the clear because Obama accepted less money from Hsu.

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it?

[MADem]

104. Who started this thread, Sunshine? Why, YOU did. And now you're whining

because it isn't going the way you anticipated? And it's going badly because YOU didn't do your homework before shooting off your keyboard!

You started this topic, you might want to stick to it!

Senator Clinton wasn't introduced to "Mark Moneybags" by the fellow that YOU so direly brought up, now, was she? OOOOOH, TWO WORDS....Norman Hsu!!!!!! Be Very Afraid!!!!

:rofl:

Pssst--when you repeat sentences that others have said back to them, it doesn't make you look clever. It makes you look like a bit of a parrot.

:rofl:

[durrrty libby]

35. He's going on TeeVee to whine. That will go over just swell

[aquart]

78. Kos uses Drudge as a source?

Well, why not?

[MADem]

87. Naaah. Not KOS. Some whining and frantic advocate who posts there.

The commentary accompanying the rant is actually the best bit, as the whine itself is a bit lame. The comments cover all the bases. Some of them are quite acerbic.

[okasha]

10. Teacup Chihuahua calls out Wolf X

n/t

[MADem]

19. Well, I dunno about that, but what I DO notice is that every time that Senator Obama

uses 'gonna' and 'wanna' as opposed to the "going to" and "want to" --as is his natural speaking pattern-- he is wandering into unfamiliar territory. And it's usually territory mapped out by his 'handlers.' It doesn't always end well.

I wish I could see it. I am not near 'reliable' television right now, I'm at the mercy of a recalcitrant antennae that doesn't include "GMA" within range.

I'm sure YOUTUBE will get the 'fun' bits, though.

[tabatha]

21. no, honest calls out dishonest.

[Barack_America]

64. Exactly right....n/t

[SoFlaJet]

11. Great post Kristi

thank you from an Edwards supporter-I hate the way the Clinton "machine" has employed Rovian tactics...of course we all know that it's all OK with them-anything to get elected...just like Bush/Rove disgusting display by the people of the party I never would have expected it from

[KennedyGuy]

14. Do you think someone will tell Obama that Bill's not running?

He can't even handle Hills surrogates..let alone Hillary..

[tabatha]

24. Hillary can't hande Bill.

Yes, please tell Hillary that she and Obama are in the race, not Bill.

[Essene]

25. Tell BILL CLINTON that he's not running...

He talks more about his views than HIllary's.

And he's crying just as much as her...

[KennedyGuy]

30. He's really got you rattled eh?

[Essene]

49. The whole nation is rattled, actually...

[GoldieAZ49]

31. Bill is the one that needs to be told he is not running.

If Hillary can't run on her own then she is not ready to be POTUS.

[MADem]

39. Welcome to DU... uh, make yourself comfortable. Third post, eh?

You settle in quick!

[Meshuga]

15. I vote in Maryland

So my vote might not count since it is a week or so after super tuesday. But if my vote counts I would vote for Obama. I was a Kerry supporter back in 2004 and one of his main mistakes was that his campaign was not aggressive enough. Is Obama going to run trusting that the American people are not going to be influenced by smear or is he going to be passive in his campaign?

[Barack_America]

67. I'm in a late primary too...

I'm away at school in PA.

In any case, I think it's entirely possible that the nomination just might come down to us late voters...

[dailykoff]

16. I expect the Hillbots to try to spin this as an endorsement.

She could use it.

[Essene]

17. Yep. Bill Clinton became a liability for Hillary and the entire Party in the last couple weeks

And it's smart that Obama just goes after Bill Clinton, rather than getting baited by him into more race debates or other non-sense.

Bill Clinton's been acting like a complete fool and Obama took the right move to attack HIM< rather than Hiillary or "the campaign."

[suston96]

26. Yep, a real liability...and that is why Hillary keeps losing those primaries....yep!

[Essene]

29. Count delegates. Not very impressive for a Clinton...

Sorry.

[GoldieAZ49]

37. 2 wins, 1 default win, When her politics come home to roost she will cry again

real tears for a real loss

Hopefully it will happen in the primary and not the General Election

[Essene]

51. It's the entire party that could go down with her...

Not that i think Obama's particularly more electable.

But he has less baggage (besides his church lol)

[suston96]

Yep, down and down it will go. Then Social Security will die and then the sky will really fall....

Where did I put my suicide kit........?

[Essene]

59. Cute. Remember this when Mike Bloomberg declares...

[suston96]

68. Bloomberg? Never heard of him.

[Essene]

32. More quotes & sources regarding the "race war" & smearing

Clinton's campaign apologized for the assassination comment, but that's about it... and instead have tried to suggest it was Obama who "started it" even though this almost all happened before Obama said a word.


### He's likely to get assassinated.

Somebody who introduced Hillary Clinton emphasized the comparison with JFK and how he got killed. “Some people compare one of the other candidates to John F. Kennedy. But he was assassinated." The Clinton admin distanced themselves from his comments, calling them inappropriate, but the damage was done. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

### He's no MLK. And dreams need a President not speeches.

She dissed MLK, suggesting REAL change only happened because of President Johnson (not MLK's dream or the civil rights movement). She then implied that he doesn't remotely compare to MLK or Kennedy. "You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches." Sad. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

Let's look at the statements in more detail.

“Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act.” “It took a president to get it done.” (Read: it took a white president)

“You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches. President Kennedy was in Congress for 14 years. He was a war hero. He was a man of great accomplishments and readiness to be president. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. led a movement. He was gassed. He was beaten. He was jailed. And he gave a speech that was one of the most beautifully, profoundly important speeches ever written in America, the “I have a dream” speech. And then he worked with President Johnson to get the civil rights laws passed, because the dream couldn’t be realized until finally it was legally permissible for people of all colors and backgrounds and races and ethnicities to be accepted as citizens."

Somebody remind Hillary that she supported Barry Goldwater back then... o.0

### The hip black male who can't provide

In the words of a Clinton adviser: "If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool." http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2238148,00.html

### Obama just "shucks and jives"

Andrew Cuomo, NY Attorney General, and Clinton fan... came out swingin at Obama after NH primary. “You can’t shuck and jive at a press conference,” he added. “All those moves you can make with the press don’t work when you’re in someone’s living room.” http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Dept_of_word_choice.html

### Hispanics won't vote for him

Clinton pollster Sergio Bendixen: “The Hispanic voter—and I want to say this very carefully—has not shown a lot of willingness or affinity to support black candidates.” http://thepage.time.com/2008/01/12/racial-tensions-a-potential-boost-for-clinton

No... no... that's not an attempt to be divisive and race bait at all.

### "99 problems and a bitch aint one of them."

The New York Post said: "As Obama and his wife, Michelle, strolled triumphantly into his victory party in Des Moines, Iowa, on Jan. 3, Jay-Z's "99 Problems" was blaring. In it, Jay raps, 'I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one.'" Almost the entire article revolves around Clinton spokesperson commenting on the situation. Considering it was blatantly false and easily "checked" with a youtube search, it's fairly naive to believe the Clinton campaign accidentally bought into this lie and would comment on it without intent to give the story life. http://www.nypost.com/seven/01142008/gossip/pagesix/hillary__barack_rap__rock_142152.htm & http://youtube.com/watch?v=rAXAemXaivY

## Obama is an Uncle Tom who was doing drugs when the Clintons were fighting for blacks

BET founder Bob Johnson jumped up on stage with Hillary like a few other spineless black leaders, to attack Obama. The media focused on his comment about Obama's drug use, and Johnson later apologized. However, few cared to notice how Johnson compared Obama to Sidney Poitier's character in “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner.” This is the modern equivalent of calling somebody an Uncle Tom. While Obama accepted the apology, do not believe it's acceptable to careful & critical observers. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/bet-chief-raps-obama-in-sc/

### Blacks support Obama just because he's black.

The day after a "truce" was declared between Clinton and Obama, Bill Clinton went on a vicious but subtle attack with more desperate race baiting. He said: "Hillary has an enormous amount of African American support and Barack Obama has a lot of white people for him," he said in Sparks. There's still some African Americans who support Barack, even though they like Hillary, because they think he is the first African American to have a chance to be president," Clinton said. "And there's a lot of women who are voting for Hillary, even though they like Sen. Obama, because they think it would be better if a woman broke the glass ceiling." Re-read that. He says blacks all like Hillary, but some 'still' like Obama (merely} because he's black. A smart man like Bill doesn't use these words without full grasp. Words like "chance" and "still" are no accidents. Notice he then plays the gender card. This was AFTER the truce. http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-15-bill-clinton-nevada_N.htm

Oh... and in the same speech, Clinton called Obama the "establishment candidate." Stand-up comedy.


### False hope.

"An untested man who offers false hope." "We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delivered." Clinton herself said this. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_01/012851.php

### Obama is just poetry.

She's been stumping with comments about how he's just talking poetry and she's ready to "govern with prose." Cute. " a doer, not a talker." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080107/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_rdp

### Obama is just a fairy tale.

Bill Clinton's rant the other day that i think shocked more than a few of us. Clinton flat out called Obama a liar, said he was a fairy tale. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Muslim (danger danger!).

Several Clinton campaign folks were removed over this. One may argue this absolves her from responsibility, yet anybody paying attention realizes this smear is arguably one of higher impact ones. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/10/second-clinton-volunteer-_n_76047.html

Not like Bob Kerrey and others kept this issue alive in the public dialog or anything, right? http://themoderatevoice.com/religion/islam/muslims/16573/clinton-support-bob-kerry-continues-to-raise-obama-muslim-issues/

### Al qaeda will strike!!

"Look what happened in Great Britain," she said. "Tony Blair leaves, Gordon Brown comes in, the very next day, there are terrorist attacks." Sorry, but that's a disgraceful comment, directly suggesting terrorists will strike with the election of Obama. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/05/cnr.06.html

### Drug record makes him unelectable.

Top Clinton advisor steps down after making various arguments about how Obama can't get elected due to his drug use. In the context of all the other stuff, this most certainly has racial overtones and will be taken that way by many minorities. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004077664_obama17.html


### Obama is in this only because of blind media.

Bill Clinton also suggested it was "wrong" that Obama has been able to get through 15 debates without being called a liar by the press. He implies the blind, uncritical media is the problem. "The press never reported on" yadda yadda. "Give me a break!" He thought Hillary was going to lose NH and was basically blaming the media for this "fairy tale." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Obama lacks depth and reality.

"On a lot of these issues it is hard to know where he stands, and people need to ask that." "As famously was said years ago, 'Where's the beef?'" Clinton said that herself. In the context of the other smearing, this takes on racial overtones (onfortunately, because it otherwise is fair game). http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1

### Male chuavanism and the gender card.

Folks may reasonably disagree on the interpretation, but she's clearly playing the gender card lately - even implied that her gender alone equates to meaningful change in the White House (just imagine the outcry if Obama said that about being black). She said that in the 1/5/08 debate. Similarly, the spin out of NH is that his comment was rude and poor Hillary's being beaten up on by the boys *tear*. That's how i intepret this spin, and it seems very clear to me. And if you question her crying about her campaign hardships, she implies THAT is male chuavanism too. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530 & http://bourbonroom.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/07/clintons-candid-assessment/

And additionally... i'd like to just focus on this clip from the NH Debate. She was attacked on the issue of likability. She joked that he's likable. He DEFENDED HER in return. She even says "i appreciate that," yet all the Clinton spin doctors (and Rove) are trying to pretend he attacked her. Watch for yourself and be honest. These 2 were just handling an obnoxious question with grace, but now the Clinton base is trying to turn this into a chuavanistic attack by him? Get real. Watch it. It was friendly. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7RuzYvtCw

Lying about a black man's "tone" towards a white woman is easy to get away with in 2008, I guess.

### Obama is Bush 3.0

"He’s very likable . I agree with that…. You know, in 2000 we, unfortunately, ended up with a president who people said they wanted to have a beer with." “I think it’s good to have a likeable president. But if I remember right, many people said they wanted to have a beer with George W. Bush. Maybe they should’ve left it at that – have a beer, don’t vote him in as our president.” It's a slick way to deflect the likability argument, but she even tries to imply this has policy implications, electing an inexperienced guy just because he's likable.

### Flip flopper (abortion swiftboating)

Just watch the ABC debate from 1/5/08. She repeated this charge in various ways, although in fairness she did get into specifics in a few cases (which i think is fair game if you challenge the record itself on the issues). However, for a couple months... this has been her primary charge against him. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530

However, when they intentionally distorted his record on abortion to effectively swiftboat him in NH, that's really the kind of politics the democrats cannot afford in the primary. http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080106/NEWS01/801060396/1043

### Obama is too liberal.

"Hillary's aides point to Obama's extremely progressive record as a community organizer, state senator and candidate for Congress, his alliances with 'left-wing' intellectuals in Chicago's Hyde Park community, and his liberal voting record on criminal defendants' rights as subjects for examination." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/new-hampshire-will-be-key_n_79873.html

### Obama is too conservative.

They claimed he was "unwilling to take a stand on choice." His controversial gay marriage position is a legitimate issue, for sure, but they've tried to paint him as too conservative. http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/hillary_mailer_hits_obama_on_abortion.php

### Obama is soft on crime.

"Mandatory minimums take too much discretion away from judges." "Barack Obama's kind of change is where you sit down and you cut a deal with the corporate world." All the attacks on his record now are going to be cast in racial terms, unfortunately. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/hillary-hits-obama-for

[Cha]

46. Thanks, Essene, for

the information listed so concisely.

[Essene]

50. Ignore my summaries if you want. The direct quotes and sources are there, tho... =)

[Cha]

57. Oh, I like your

summaries..they're an integral part it:)

[Cha]

34. Thanks Kristi via poblano

For this list that hilary created.

[Barack_America]

40. The obsessive-compulsive in me...

...really likes having all of these grievances in a nice, neat list-format. The lazy-bastard in me is grateful that somebody else did it for me.

Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day. What d'ya think the chances of Bill's head literally exploding are?

:popcorn:

[Cha]

55. Essene has done some really

great work on that(post #32), too..for us lazy ones(I don't believe that in you..we all use our talents differently:)

b c head exploding.. We'll see. A hillary said he wasn't going to stop so at least Obama is calling him on it and bill can incorporate it into his next lie to his groupies. But, in the long run I think bill clinton is pissing off too many of the wrong people and his so-called legacy is going down in flames. Power has corrupted those two if they ever weren't and absolute power would turn them into powerzombies.

[Windy]

38. Bill C needs to shut the hell up! he's so desparate to regain power.

His antics are deplorable.

[TriMetFan]

41. I keep on asking this question.

Is Obama going to ask his wife to stop campaigning on his behalf? What about Elizabeth Edwards? Obama should think twice about going after Bill. Bill is just the spouse of Hillary, who is just campaigning for his spouse. This would not be a big deal to Obama if Bill had not been President. Obama should ask his friend Oprah to hit the campaign trail again and not go after Bill.

[Essene]

42. Do you really think that's the issue?

Seriously?

You somehow think this is generically about a spouse campaigning?

This is the former President of the United States. He's being dishonest and smearing.

[TriMetFan]

63. Really how????

He is just the spouse. Just that he happens to be a former President means nothing to a lot of us. Micheal Obama has said some stuff I find out of hand. This is just one. "In Atlantic, Michelle said she travels with her husband in part "to model what it means to have family values," adding "if you can't run your own house, you can't run the White House." She didn't elaborate, but it could be interpreted as a swipe at the Clinton's." Should this mean that she should not campaign for her husband??? If any-one thought that running against Hillary was going to be easy by having Bill by her side, I got a house on the moon I would like to sell them.

[Essene]

69. "that he happens to be a former President means nothing to a lot of us" - get real =)

Sure, some people look to her purely on her own terms... but she IS married to Bill Clinton.

More importantly... the other spouses arent running around distorting records, race baiting and lying.

[TriMetFan]

So what you are saying is that.....

it is o.k. for Michelle Obama to make a speech on behalf of her husband and say stuff about others, but it is not o.k. for Bill to campaign for Hillary just because he is an ex-President. o.k. you win.

[Essene]

83. Of course not. It's that he's lying, smearing and distorting facts...

It's RISKIER for the Hillary Camp, because it makes it look like he is running.

That's not the problem. The problem is that he's lying, smearing and distorting facts.

[TriMetFan]

89. Really!

Man they all do! Politician are just that way. Its in their blood. Obama is no saint. But what I think people forgot is that Bill is Hillary's spouse. Bill will not just play died. Does it suck that Bill is a ex-President? Yes. Does it suck for Obama? Yes. I have also watched the video from Las Vegas about Bill in the casino and I didn't see one wrong thing he did.

[Barack_America]

60. Neither Michelle Obama nor Elizabeth Edwards are degrading the dignity...

that the phrase "Former President" holds.

To my knowledge, neither Michelle Obama nor Elizabeth Edwards have told blatant lies about their husband's rivals.

There are many differences.

[Essene]

62. Aint that the truth...

[MADem]

76. Seeing as they aren't FORMER PRESIDENTS, how could they?

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it?

:rofl:

[Barack_America]

100. Exactly. They can't. He can. That's why it's different for him. Thanks! n/t

[MADem]

106. Ten points for your rather unique, though pathetic, ability to be "deliberately obtuse!"

:rofl:

You really should quit before you're so far behind that the search party won't even bother to go back for you.

:rofl:

[Clarkansas]

52. Bill Clinton has been awful these last few weeks.

He must be making Karl Rove proud.

[Essene]

53. the Narcissism and sense of Entitlement... are very real

Her crying about her campaign hardships?

His crying after the NH results came in?

These two need to retire.

[durrrty libby]

54. I think he has been fabulous. I love love love how dedicated he is

Go Bill:applause: :woohoo: :applause:

[Essene]

58. dedicated to his wife?

or to himself, his legacy and hearing himself talk?

[durrrty libby]

65. Aww..........panties in a wad. BooHoo

[Essene]

Im not crying. Im laughing at your belief he's in this because of dedication to his wife...

[Clarkansas]

91. Yes, he is very dedicated to doing whatever it takes to get Hillary the nomination

no matter how unethical!
:woohoo:

[MrSlayer]

61. He IS running against both Clintons.

They are a package deal. They were a package deal when Bill was president and they will be one if Hillary gets elected. Kind of silly for him to not have realized this until now.

[Essene]

66. and he's smart to bring attention to this... to make an issue out of Bill

Because that's her downfall, either now or later.

40-45% of americans dislike her. So, why her? Because she's a package deal with Bill.

She is not going to get elected... and this is a shrewd way to make an issue out of her primary electability problem. And frankly, Bill Clinton has been way too visible and they knew this was the risk.

[Imagevision]

70. Obama should bring Bill back to the Monica/cigar days, talk about something...with meaning

[wisteria]

72. Good, I am beginning to wonder what Clinton is really running for president.

I use to have some respect for this man, but anymore his behavior is nothing short of intimidating,pushy and demanding and oh, real ugly. He demeans the office he held with his pursuit of power. frankly, I don't want to see this man anywhere near the White House again.

[rufus dog]

73. Bill is reinforcing the Right Wing stereotypes regarding the Clinton's

It is very sad.

[Essene]

79. Bill needs a Time Out

They had to know the risks of putting him out there so much... but they got desperate.

[robbedvoter]

82. Always with the laundry lists - or campaign memos?

[Essene]

84. Cuz all criticisms of Clinton are some evil campaign tactic, right?

/yawn

[ursi]

102. someone needs to stand up to them!

[Skip Intro]

103. What a crock.

Oh, if it weren't for all these things, my candidate would be winning...

sheesh

"a greivance is an allegation is a fact upon which we conclude they just better be nice to us, or else..."


all I hear is juvenile whining


what did Bill Clinton say about Obama's shifting stance on the war that wasn't accurate?


:shrug:

[SaveElmer]

105. Poor Barack...is Hillary's husband being mean to him...?

Is he gonna hold his breath until they stop?