Is this shit helpful at all to the GLBT community?

[Egnever]

post after post after tired post about who has the most homophobes around them or who has had the most homophobes perform for them or who once saw a homophobe near one of our candidates.

Its getting old.

Obama has been fighting for GLBT rights for longer than most of you knew who he was and continues to stand in front of churches full of people that think being gay is a sin and tells them to put their hatred aside.

I don't know what all Clinton has done to support GLBT rights or to stand up for them but I will assume she has.

This shit is extremely hateful and has no place on DU on either side. We all want our candidates to win but does it need to be done by using the GLBT community as a tool to bash either candidate? it comes across as disingenuous and opportunistic instead of supportive of the GLBT community.

GLBT rights are a serious issue but if you really care about them tell me what your candidate has done to support them not how many people they have come in contact with who don't.

[aquart]

1. So shut up and go away?

Because no one can criticize Obama. Only Hillary can be criticized.

Good luck with that.

And thank you SO MUCH for your concern.

[Egnever]

5. WTF are you talking about?

both are being criticized for exactly the same things. Or do you only read the hate obama threads?

[liberalnurse]

39. Good catch...I previously

just popped in and scanned the post. After a closer look, it's some passive-aggressive anti-Hillary stuff. Gay's should show their offense at being used by these rednecks.

[Egnever]

41. Anti Hillary stuff?

you smoking crack?

[liberalnurse]

52. No, I never engage in the use of illegal drugs.

Don't use them; never have. What I do support and enforce is full prosecution for those who do....That said, very well may include you.

[Mythsaje]

59. Why?

I think the War On Drugs is racist from inception to implementation and can't figure out any good reason a liberal should ever support such a heinous policy.

[liberalnurse]

78. If I had time I would elaborate on the conseqences of illegal drug use.

Tell me this; how many crack and/or heroin addicted babies have you delivered? How many drug dealers or users have you sent to the morgue after they were in a drive-by shooting? How many shootings have you been indirectly involved? Just tonight for me and I'm in the ER of the hospital! My 3rd since December 07. Hauled one out of the van, in the ER parking lot...ducking in case the shooter is nearby. The kid was shot in his chest; start CPR compression, get him in the ETC; doc opens chest, aorta severed, blood gushes, manual heart massage unsuccessful ...need more, just ask....

Racism you think? Nah; I see all races, genders and ages being affected by illegal drug use.

[Mythsaje]

88. Most of those cases were CREATED by the drug war...

Or, at least, escalated and perpetuated by it.

When was the last time rival gangs were shooting one another over alcohol profits? Oh, yeah. Prohibition.

And how well has our new prohibition done in stopping crack babies and the like? Not very fucking well. In fact, I'd say the whole problem's simply gotten worse since the whole idea went into overdrive. How many crack babies do you think there were around in 1970? Damn few. But gee, it was sure profitable to figure out a way to distribute cocaine to all them poor folk so everybody could afford it.

Now we've got meth in nearly every community in America. That whole drug war thing sure took care of that.

If the War on Terror is as successful as the War on Drugs has been, we'll all be bowing to Mecca in no time.

On the other hand, how have our civil liberties fared? Not so well. So, I suppose, it's been remarkably successful from that standpoint.

When something isn't doing the job it's supposed to be doing, it's time to re-evaluate it.

[liberalnurse]

94. Actually, I could care less at the moment, another day perhaps.

I just wanted to respond at the time to the inappropriate poster who asked me if I was smoking crack...and I clarified my "No" for what it was worth around this zoo.

[Mythsaje]

102. I'm honestly not trying to jump down your throat.

I think the drug war has been far more destructive than drugs themselves, which, I'll admit, is saying something. It's not that I don't think many drugs are harmful, but we, as a society, are paying a very high price for a failed policy.

Believe me, I am far more sympathetic to you than to the person you're responding to. It's just one of my hot button issues.

Oh, and I'll admit, so's "could care less." It really should be "couldn't care less." That's a particular pet peeve of mine as a card carrying member of the language police.

:)

[liberalnurse]

110. Well excuse me...........

I just worked 18 hours and I was a bit tired.....I use my PDA at work for a nice breaking diversion while in chaos.

Will Pitt, a man I admire, he gave you accolades of support the other day when you were leaving DU....I didn't know you but gave you encouragement to hang in there as well.

Today, I find that I may of presumed too much. You have been nothing but intrusive, judgemental, unnecessarily critical and selfish. You apparently harbor some inner misery and are displacing it towards me.

Nice attitude ya got there:

" Oh, and I'll admit, so's "could care less." It really should be "couldn't care less." That's a particular pet peeve of mine as a card carrying member of the language police."

[Mythsaje]

111. Sorry if I offended you.

It really wasn't my objective. "Could care less" bugs me to no end. I don't think there's another example of language abuse that makes me crazier. But it was intended as a good-natured jibe to lighten the mood. I obviously suck at that in this format. I'm much better at it IRL, I suppose. Believe it or not, I'm usually very good at defusing tension.

Sorry to hear about the 18 hour shift. You folks are definitely overworked and it can't be easy to deal with what you do day in and day out.

As I said, the drug war is one of my hot button issues. I think IT in itself is criminal and have a lot off real data to back me up. You have personal reasons to hate drugs and I can understand that. I've seen a lot of what they can do as well. But that doesn't change the facts that many of the things we're facing can be attributed directly to the drug war as a test program.

Here's a great thread on DU that touches on the issue, if you're interested and have the time to read it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2729853

I was tired last night myself, and in a not inconsiderable amount of pain. I suppose that made me crankier and more terse than I should have been.

My apologies for giving offense.

[mckeown1128]

95. Your problem seems to be with the fact that drugs are illegal...

If drugs were sold in liquor stores then there would be no drug dealers or drive buys. Gangs would lose their funding. Kid's wouldn't be able to get their drugs from some guys basement down the street... they would have to show an ID at a mainstream establishment. People wouldn't go the hospital because their drugs were "cut" with poisons. Their would be directions to prevent over doses. In fact if you did any research at all you would find the only dangerous drugs are crack and heroin (and that is because of their physically addictive nature.) But they wouldn't be available if other drugs like weed and ecstasy weren't funding gangs and drug dealers. Do a little research for your self. erowid.org is a fantastic resource website for you to check out. There is no reason that our jails should be filled to capacity with (mainly minorities) because of these ridiculous drug laws.

[Bonobo]

101. It includes me too. You probably want to taser me.

[ZombieHorde]

127. Drug war

What I do support and enforce is full prosecution for those who do

Prison for drug use is cruel. Many prisoners get subjected to rape, beatings, and humiliation. Many of these rapes spread AIDS. I don't believe that these things make people better citizens, I believe that things such as rape make people more disturbed, disturbed people are more prone to violence.

The war on drugs has an environmental impact as well, it is illegal to grow hemp in the U.S. because people are afraid that someone may smoke a joint.

The war on drugs has a medical impact too, medical marijuana.

[karynnj]

106. There is NO anti-HRC stuff there, unless you read it in

[NMMNG]

2. Don't act like you give a flying rip about the LGBT community

You don't. And I'm getting the impression that much of DU doesn't either. Frankly if Obama pureed and burned LGBTs live on stage most of his supporters wouldn't give a flying freaking rip, so long as he gave a pretty speech stating he supported their rights and had an "Obama Pride" page on his website.

We're being thrown under the bus. As usual.

[Skittles]

19. that's how I see it too, Buffy

I cannot believe the shit that gets glossed-over by so many DUers - very egregious, deeply offensive stuff

[Egnever]

22. glossed over?

hundreds of threads on it are glossed over? so you like the GLBT comunity being used as a tool for partisan bullshit?

DO you seriously believe Barrack or Hillary are anti gay? Or do you just want to smear them because you dont like one or the other?

[Skittles]

28. I believe Obama panders to homophobes, absolutely

yes I do

And I suppport NEITHER for the presidency

[NMMNG]

24. I just get so frustrated

I stand up for the underdog, no matter who it might be and whether or not I or someone I personally know is in that group. I've never seen DU this bad. The way I and people I know have constantly been told that our needs, rights and lives are unimportant or don't count appalls me beyond words. I would never tell someone who was offended by racism, sexism, Antisemitism or the like to "get over it" yet I've been told that more times than I can count in the past few months over homophobia. Maybe I thought Democrats stood for more than they do.

[Egnever]

30. wow you care so much its a personal flaw

I am not telling anyone to get over it I am asking if using the GLBT community as a tool to bash our candidates is helpful be it Obama or Hillary or whoever.

Mclurkin is an ass caldwell is an ass whatever dick weeds are on Hillary's staff are asses. Both hillary and Obama have great records of standing up and talking about gay issues.

WHY in the fuck would you want to tear either one down for people they were associated with? IMHO that cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[NMMNG]

43. I'm not using the GLBT community as a tool

I'm tired of the GLBT community being used as a tool. We get used as a tool every single election time.

Vote for me because I'll ban gay marriage!
Vote for me because I think gays are an abomination!
Vote for me because I think gays deserve equal rights (just ignore that ex-gay I'm using to get votes from the homophobes who hate your guts).
Vote for me because I'll give you a gays-only drinking fountain (as long as you ignore these homophobes I'm sucking up to).
Vote for me even though I'll throw you under the bus just like I did last time....


I'm sick to death of it all, and I'm sick of my so called party mates telling me to "get over" my "faux outrage" when I'm being screwed up the backside without the courtesy of lube or a "please ma'am".

[Egnever]

51. which of the two Hillary or Obama

Has ever thrown you under the bus? I will admit I dont know hillary's stances on GLBT issues becuase I have other Issues with Hillary that preclude me from voting for her so I cant really give you examples of her standing up for the GLBT comuntiy.

Obama on the other hand has a clear record of fighting for equal rights for the GLBT comunity. He has done it time and again from introducing legislation to hell just today standing in MLKs church and calling for people to embrace their GLBT brothers and sisters

Who is throwing who under the bus?

[Skittles]

89. I see what you see Buffy

it absolutely appals me - it reminds me of repukes - no empathy whatsoever. I found Obama's pandering to homophobes and his praise of Reagan absolutely sickening.

[Catsbrains]

93. I would be deeply offended, no one should be pureed and buried alive except maybe Bush.

[mckeown1128]

97. Don't act like you talk for the GLBT community...

My brother is gay and an Obama supporter. My brother is aware of the Mclurkin event and he doesn't give a flip. He looks at the positions of the candidate to determine where they stand. Most of the people posting this crap about Obama weren't supporters before the controversy started. This just gives you all a reason to feel good about your choice not to have supported Obama. Wow. The fake outrage is crazy.

[LostinVA]

114. How dare you talk to Buffy that way -- how fucking DARE you

WE know her, and know what a great GLBT activist she is, and what a defender she is against the small minds on both DU and IRL. She does speak for me and many other others on here -- straight and gay and TG and bi -- and I'm proud she does.

Fake outage? WHATTHEFUCKEVER. I'm sick of THAT shit, too, and the always, ALWAYS brother/friend/sister/et al who never seem to care about anti-gay outrages.

This shit does beyond candidates. It's about civil rights.

[maddiejoan]

121. My brother is straight

Me? I'm a big ol' flamin' trannie.

But I'll tell you what --even though he and I don't agree on which Democratic candidate to support --he doesn't dismiss my justified outrage at Obama as being faked.


So you can kiss my queer ass. Because I'm angry. Obama has opened a can of worms by associating with the "ex-gay" movement --it's HIS problem to fix now.

And unless he STRONGLY condemns that movement --HE can kiss my queer ass as well.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/21/9585/77975/958/440438

[JackBeck]

124. LOL

:spray: :hug:

[NMMNG]

130. Cut that "fake outrage" crap

I'm sick to death of that "fake outrage" crap.

I would never disrespect someone who was disgusted over Imus's "Nappy headed ***" comment by telling them they were expressing "fake outrage". I have more compassion and empathy. than that. When Senator Obama called for Imus to be fired was that "fake outrage"?

Everyone who claims we LGBTs are sick of being thrown under the bus are expressing "fake outrage" can go piss up a rope. Don't forget to stand under it.

Stop drinking the Kool-aid and you might be able to see that other people have feelings.

[LostinVA]

112. No, you're right, they don't

It's all just a fucking game of political masturbation to them, and I'm sick of it.

[NMMNG]

131. I keep wondering why I come back here

It's become so awful lately. :-(

[Maven]

3. Wow.

In one post you've managed to:

1. Blame the victim

2. Distort the truth about Caldwell, what he represents and what role he's played/will play in Obama's campaign

3. Mischaracterize the motives of those who are understandably bewildered and angry about the Obama campaign pushing the McClurkin knife in deeper

4. Pretend that your frustration over your candidate being called on atrocious pandering is actually concern for GLBTs

Did I cover it all?

[Egnever]

7. catch a fucking clue clinton is getting this shit too

or do you just enjoy wallowing in bullshit?

[Maven]

8. Yeah.

I'm sure you're heartbroken about that.

[Egnever]

11. so your answer then is yes its totaly helpful

[Maven]

15. GLBTs and their allies should know when candidates give heinous bigots a voice.

Especially when such signals are meant for a "special" audience.

So yes, from that perspective uncovering the role of people like Caldwell in a candidate's campaign is helpful.

[Egnever]

20. a special audience?

dont know what thats about. I can accept the notion of being aware of who is involved in what campaign is helpfull. I dont accept that guilt by association is.

[Maven]

25. Guilt by association

What a joke.

This will actually be the third time Obama's campaign has used him to campaign. It's an association they sought out. This is someone who makes a living reprogramming GLBTs to hate themselves--it's not just a detail in a broader portfolio--and bringing him into the fold shows tacit acceptance of what he represents.

I suppose you'd have no problem if a candidate allowed a white supremacist leader to "make visits" on his behalf, as long as the candidate stated disagreement with his racial views?

[Mythsaje]

17. I was curious how the spin would start.

I guess I have my answer.

[Egnever]

23. what spin?

I asked is it helpfull.

how is that spin?

[liberalnurse]

4. We have poster here these days

who do not embrace the theme and intent of DU. The title of Trolls come to mind. There mission is to try and offend the members of our core community .

[Solon]

6. Like you give a shit about the GBLT community!

Look, your favorite candidate is being slammed for a colossal fuckup, either own up to it or STFU about it, because you aren't doing him any favors.

[Egnever]

9. Clinton is getting slammed too

I have seen you dont like either one but it aint just my candidate.

[Solon]

13. True, and if you were a Hillary supporter, I would have posted the same damn thing...

word for word. So stop with that deflection shit. Both candidates suck to GLBT people for similar reasons.

[Egnever]

16. so mark you down as yes its helpful

Rogger that

[Solon]

69. If it helps for Obama to slam the "ex-gay" movement and apologize for McFuckstick...

then yes, if it doesn't then yes again, I'll know he's not worth supporting.

[Egnever]

72. he does it all the time

he did it just today at MLK's church.

[Solon]

77. He uses the same "hate the sin, not the sinner" bullshit the homophobes use...

to justify their own bigotry. To be frank, that's not impressive, in fact, that is downright insulting.

[Egnever]

81. this doesnt sound like what you describe to me

And yet, if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that none of our hands are entirely clean. If we’re honest with ourselves, we’ll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King’s vision of a beloved community.

We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them. The scourge of anti-Semitism has, at times, revealed itself in our community. For too long, some of us have seen immigrants as competitors for jobs instead of companions in the fight for opportunity.

[Solon]

82. Yeah, the homophobes are all about embracing gay folks...

but only the celibate ones.

[FreeState]

123. "Embracing them" is ex-gay speak - notice he does not use

accept or value or hold as equal - he uses a phrase you probably are not aware of that is used extensively in ex-gay ministries in an attempt to sound caring by trying to help GLBT persons overcome their "problem". Obama talking out both sides of his mouth here. He's hoping no one tells anyone that "embracing them" really means something else entirely.

[Bluenorthwest]

126. Where is the soul?

Why the quick flash card reference? He stood in a place where a bit of talk about Bayard Rustin, an openly gay man who was integral to Dr King's career. Now that would be some actual connection. That would have been true to people who actually did the work with King. Ruskin taught him Ganhdi's techniques. And many other things. He was Martin Luther King's friend, unmentioned again. A moment missed. More canned code speak in its place.
Does it take more words to explain why Hillary's words about Dr King were disprespectful, or to explain that open anti-gay preaching at Democratic campaign events is not bigoted pandering? Just wondering. It amazes me how those who split hairs in their own favor expect others to give benefit of the doubt freely.
I support Dennis Kucinich. Edwards is ok too.

[Kucinich4America]

27. Can we put that quote in a big flashing neon sign somewhere on the main page of DU??

"Both candidates suck to GLBT people for similar reasons."

The complaints against those who Obama associates himself with are valid, and I find it difficult to justify a vote for him myself for that reason. But some choose to believe that Hillary Clinton will help the LGBT community, and her past record says that SHE WON'T. Nor will anyone in the DLC. Their entire purpose is to push the party more to the right with each political cycle. You cannot possibly do that and end discrimination against LGBT's at the same time. It's impossible.

28 years of Bush/Clinton/DLC is what has kept this discrimination alive. If you vote for more of that, then you get what you deserve.

[Egnever]

34. So then what will you do ?

bash both of them continuously till one of them gets the nod and then vote for them?

Or will you just sit it out? I don't have a problem with sitting it out based on your principles. One of them is going to be your choice on the dem side though.

[Kucinich4America]

44. What I will do, is pray like Hell that people wake the fuck up, ignore the media

and vote in their own goddamned interest for once, giving Dennis Kucinich a historic sweep of Supercalifragilisticexpealidocius Tuesday. Failing that, I hope Edwards takes it.

If Obama does, then he had better start reaching out to the Left instead of the right, and that includes our LGBT brothers and sisters.

Hillary is not an option, period. If we do not stop the Bush/Clinton/DLC cancer this time, it will KILL this country, and nobody will ever convince me otherwise.

[NMMNG]

14. Obama is the new GWB

He could do anything and his culties wouldn't care. Look where that got us for the past 8 years.


BTW. You are the greatest. :yourock:

[ellisonz]

90. We are not culties.

[Sapphocrat]

10. And all the shit...

...attempting to defend Obama by slamming Hillary supports the LGBT community... er... um... how, again?

When you find a way to actually stand up for us LGBTs without it sounding like you're just using us as one big ol' pawn in your "FUCK HILLARY! GOBAMA!" agenda, let me know, and then we can talk.

[Egnever]

12. both of them are getting it pay attention

its lame on BOTH sides

Mark you down as yes its helpful

[Sapphocrat]

18. And mark you down as...

..."No, I don't really give a fart in a jar about you homos except as you serve My Barack Obama's purpose."

[Egnever]

21. if this sort of behavior is what people who stand up repeatedly for GLBT issues should expect

then why would anyone give a fart in a jar ?

[Sapphocrat]

29. If this sort of behavior is what people who stand up repeatedly for Obama should expect...

...then why would I give a fart in a jar for Your Barack Obama?

[Egnever]

31. so you just hate barack

so its ok with him OK got it. What about the shit being thrown at Hillary you ok that that too?

[Sapphocrat]

37. No, buddy-boy.

I don't hate Barack. You, however, hate gay and lesbian Americans. Got it.

And *IF* you -- like every other Obamaite I've engaged tonight -- can manage to keep on the topic of Obama's anti-gay campaign tactics without bringing any other candidate into it (i.e., "Hillary does it too! Hillary does it too!"), then I will agree to a discussion with you.

But you can't do that. You just can't help yourself, can you? Talk about knee-jerk reactions. It's fucking Pavlovian.

Transparent. Gossamer-wing transparent.

[Egnever]

38. yea I got it I am a breeder

I know your kinda hate and its lame ass shit. Bring it on what you want to talk about?

[Sapphocrat]

47. That's right...

Deflect, deflect, deflect. Who called you a "breeder"? (Hint: YOU)

I'm not "lame-ass," baby boy. I'm willing to talk FACTS with you.

YOU started this thread. YOU tell ME what YOU want to talk about. As soon as you figure out how to stay ON-TOPIC about YOUR candidate -- wihtout shitting on the LGBT community, or attacking other candidates, or attacking the Man in the Fucking Moon. YOU bring it on, baby.

[Egnever]

54. WTF are you talking about?

all you do is say lets talk then talk about nothing you got issues? spout

I got time on my hands lets hear em or do you just bark?

[Sapphocrat]

55. Now you are making NO sense whatsoever. Explain.

See you in the morning, baby-pie.

[Egnever]

56. Thought you had something to say

Apparently you only came to talk a big game then run away.

[Sapphocrat]

58. He who smelt it, dealt it.

How old are you... 12?

[Egnever]

60. thats your issue?

wow you talk a good game but when it comes down to it you got nothin.

[Sapphocrat]

65. Baby, YOU got nothin'.

And it scares the shit out of you.

[Egnever]

67. more insults no substance

aparently you have nothing to say.

[Sapphocrat]

73. And I suppose crapping all over LGBTs...

...as a means to worshipping Your Great And Powerful Barack Obama is something to "say"?

I told ya, baby boy, you got nothin'. Obama fucks over us lowly homos, repeatedly, and you have no way to defend that, except by attacking those of us with the audacity to bring that inconvenient little fact to your attention.

I go to bed tonight with two comforting thoughts: 1) You can't beat the truth with your blame-the-victim attacks, and you never will, and 2) I'm putting you on ignore, so I don't have to listen to your fourth-grade bullshit anymore.

I wish you peace -- and most of all understanding -- yet pray that understanding never comes from your being forced to take it up the ass from people you once believed were your allies, the way my people believed in you, and have taken it up the ass from you. I do not wish upon you what you wish upon us.

*click*

[Egnever]

76. Thanks saves me the trouble

See ya

[Mythsaje]

75. "Ex-gays" don't endorse people who think gays should have equal rights.

They're religiously opposed to the very idea. They think it can be cured, that it's a "sin."
They think that gay people are "demon-possessed." This is no shit. Demon Possessed. Damn fanatics.

I don't blame the gays for distrusting Obama. He's sleeping with some real dogs, and they've got a veritable army of fleas to pass along.

[Egnever]

80. Really?

people are all one issue voters?

I find that impossible to believe.

Having said that I do agree that there are people who have latched on to Obama that are offensive to all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons. Why in the world anyone would think the way he has acted his whole life towards GLBT issues would change though somewhat puzzles me. Its not like theres a record of wavering there. He has been consistent in his voting for and speaking up for GLBT rights and inclusion.
He continues to be including just today.

I can understand the mistrust initialy but I would think once they looked at his long history of support they would be much more comfortable.

Obamas main theme is to unite the country that means everyone not just the ones you agree with. Here he said it well today.

------

We are told that those who differ from us on a few things are different from us on all things; that our problems are the fault of those who don’t think like us or look like us or come from where we do. The welfare queen is taking our tax money. The immigrant is taking our jobs. The believer condemns the non-believer as immoral, and the non-believer chides the believer as intolerant.


And yet, if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that none of our hands are entirely clean. If we’re honest with ourselves, we’ll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King’s vision of a beloved community.

We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them. The scourge of anti-Semitism has, at times, revealed itself in our community. For too long, some of us have seen immigrants as competitors for jobs instead of companions in the fight for opportunity.

[Mythsaje]

86. People don't vote for people

who consort with people who hate them and considered them to be possessed by evil spirits. People are weird that way.

Can't imagine what they could possibly be thinking.

There are certain issues that tend to trump all others in the minds of certain potential voters. With good reason.

For me it would be a little like a Democratic candidate deliberately courting the favor of people who believe my wife should be burnt at the stake, her being a witch and all.

Any chance of getting my vote would be, amazingly enough, a thing of the past.

[Egnever]

87. Thats not what I meant by one issue voters

your OP was ex gays don't endorse people who think gays should have equal rights. What i meant by one issue voters is don't you think its possible this ex gay is endorsing him in spite of that because he agrees with him on other issues? Or maybe he is endorsing him because he feels that clinton threw blacks under the bus.

If you would vote against a candidate because they thought your wife should be burned is it not possible this guy would endorse against clinton because he felt her campaign had done something similar to blacks and not because of Obamas stance on gays?

I think it comes down to priorities for anyone. No candidate is a perfect fit for anyone its the issues that relate closest to yours that make you chose your candidate or as you say something you can not tolerate from one candidate that pushes you to another.

Anyway I was referring to why this guy is endorsing not why you weren't.

[Mythsaje]

100. Riiiiighhht. Bush's "spiritual advisor" is choosing to support Obama

because Clinton isn't supportive enough of blacks? In what universe does that make any kind of sense?

[varelse]

133. people are all one issue voters?

If the issue happens to be equal protection under the law of ALL human rights for EVERY human being, then I guess I am a a one issue voter, yes.

[LostinVA]

116. "Breeder" is a term not allowed on DU, even in a joking manner

I find it... interesting that a heterosexual poster is the one throwing it around, when NO GLBT or ally DUer in this thread has. Hmmm......

[FrenchieCat]

26. It's ok...it is the "excuse"...good as any, I suppose.......

It is convenient. Obama won the GLBT vote in Nevada. Wonder why that was?

He goes to church and talk to Black folks about that specific issue, but he gets nothing for it....cause he committed the ultimate sin in not closing his doors....cause when he said unite, he meant everybody....not just the chosen few.

It goes to show that some in the GLBT community would want to believe that they have every right to hate and never forgive, but somehow they believe that someone hating them is unacceptable? So which is it? GLBT the only ones allowed to hate without remorse?

Obama was very clear in his speech that he knew everyone would be listening to, because it is a MLK day speech being given at King's church. He knew that the entire Black community in the entire US including his "friend" would hear this.......

For most of this country's history, we in the African-American community have been at the receiving end of man's inhumanity to man. And all of us understand intimately the insidious role that race still sometimes plays – on the job, in the schools, in our health care system, and in our criminal justice system.

And yet, if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that none of our hands are entirely clean. If we're honest with ourselves, we'll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King's vision of a beloved community.

We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them. The scourge of anti-Semitism has, at times, revealed itself in our community. For too long, some of us have seen immigrants as competitors for jobs instead of companions in the fight for opportunity.

Every day, our politics fuels and exploits this kind of division across all races and regions; across gender and party. It is played out on television. It is sensationalized by the media. And last week, it even crept into the campaign for President, with charges and counter-charges that served to obscure the issues instead of illuminating the critical choices we face as a nation.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/rospars/CGxG9#comments

But they will continue to pile-on and shit on him, cause that's all they have. After all, he ain't nothing by a N...., and has to be 5 times as good to get anywhere.

Unlike Hil....who can do no wrong, cause DOMA was perfectly acceptable.

[Sapphocrat]

32. "GLBT the only ones allowed to hate without remorse?"

Fuck. That. Shit.

I've been reading your posts for weeks, FrenchieCat, and just haven't given a damn about your rhetoric to be bothered enough to engage you. But let's do it. You want to go head to head? Let's do it, baby. Your OP. Your thread. Any subject about YOUR man. Let's do it.

Only condition: Leave every other candidate OUT of it. Think you can manage it? Show me.

Bring it on, baby. Let's see what you can do without calling your fellow Obamaites to battle. Can you handle a one-on-one?

[FrenchieCat]

33. Like ooooh Boy,,,,,

me skeered of your Avatar! :scared:

Like you get to call the fucking rules. Like who died and made you important?

[LostinVA]

118. Why are you mocking her Pink Triangle avatar -- are you unaware of the history?

[NMMNG]

129. You're "skeered" of her avatar?

You're "skeered" of a gay man killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust over 60 years ago?

What are you on?

[FrenchieCat]

36. Hey, we're both in San Francisco......

Maybe we can meet, and you can kick my ass.

Then maybe you'll feel good, or something?

We can meet at Cove Cafe on Castro. I used to work there. How's that?

[Sapphocrat]

42. You said exactly what I expected you'd say, but really hoped you wouldn't.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you would go head to head with me on ideology, on DU, and you went right for the "Ooooooooooo! I'm skeeeeeeered! I'm being threatened!" bullshit.

Pretty sad, kid. Pretty fucking sad you would try to spin it into some sort of threat.

Shameful.

And predictable.

[FrenchieCat]

45. That's me.....

sad shameful and predictable.... :(

you've got me all figured out.

You so smart massa ray!

[Sapphocrat]

48. Glad we agree on something.

Aside from this "massa ray" thing (no compute), but I assume you're calling me "racist."

[FrenchieCat]

53. Not at all. I don't know you, so I can't judge you.

It appears, on its face, that you may have an air of superiority about you, but maybe you actually believe that about yourself....that you are superior, I mean.

[Sapphocrat]

57. Oh! Thank you! Thank you!

Online psychoanalysis from an Obamamaniac is all I needed to see the light! :sarcasm:

For fuck's sake, get real... for a CHANGE. You want to talk like a grown-up? I'll be waiting.

[Egnever]

61. you havent talked like a grown up yet

talk about getting real.

[Sapphocrat]

63. So, you're... 12. Got it. n/t

[Mythsaje]

62. Good luck debating with Frenchie...

It's not a particularly productive endeavor. A lot like shouting down a well.

[Sapphocrat]

64. Or pissing up a rope.

:D

[FrenchieCat]

68. Do you piss up ropes.....?

That must be a real undertaking.

Gee, you must be very strong and fit! :)

[Mythsaje]

70. Conversing with a brick?

Shaving a yak?
Wokking a log?
Milking a frog?

I don't think they'll ever get it. Having these folks speak up for Obama, or, in the case of McJerkin, performing at a rally FOR Obama, would be like having the KKK or the Aryan Brotherhood stand up for Hillary, Edwards, or Kucinich...or have those two girls I read about a few years back do a racist concert with the proceeds going to one of the candidates.

It's as close to a deliberate slap in the face as you can get without literally reaching out and laying flesh to flesh.

But, hey, at least his rhetoric is all sweetness and light, right?

:eyes:

[FrenchieCat]

66. I appreciate that , and didn't expect it from you!

I'll agree, that I have a deep mind, although I wouldn't have normally said it myself....

so, Thanks for the Compliment!

:hi:

[LostinVA]

119. She's calling you racist -- and apparently doesn't know Sappho was a women

[NMMNG]

35. Very nice speech, I'll give him that

But he's still using psycho-spiritual terrorists in his campaign. That's bad.

DOMA is one act that makes it so same-sex marriages cannot be recognized on a federal level. It's bad, but theoretically every state could enact same-sex marriage tomorrow and the only problem we'd have is that we wouldn't have the federal benefits. DOMA can be repealed any time. Furthermore Hillary did not enact DOMA. She was not president at the time so constantly referring back to it when trying to pit her against Obama means little.

The psycho-spiritual terrorists known as the "ex-gay" movement number in the thousands, if not the millions. They also infest the minds of many millions of churchgoers and others with their vicious rhetoric causing great hatred and discrimination towards the LGBT community. Worse yet, they directly inflict horrific emotional, spiritual and psychological (as well as sometimes physical) injury on untold numbers of LGBT people. They cause the deaths of LGBT people. Do you understand that?

There is no comparison between DOMA and the Ex-gay movement. One keeps us from having federally recognized marriage rights. The other causes significant harm and seeks to eradicate us.

There is no comparison at all.

DOMA is a single nutball on a street corner. The Ex-gay movement is Stormfront and the KKK combined in the guise of religious "therapy".


Do you get it now?



Read about the horrors of the Ex-gay movement and maybe you will.

http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/
http://www.beyondexgay.com/

[FrenchieCat]

40. So you mean that if Obama goes to a world reknown church......

and speaks on a topic that has been hidden for a long time (how in the Black community, especially the elders just like many Hispanics have a hard time reconciling the Bible to Gays).....on a day where millions of people will be watching and listening.......in other words Barack speaking from the most powerful Black Bully Pulpit on the most Powerful Black holiday, on the eve of a very important election, in which he is a very important figure...he bothers to mention the issue...and that ain't nothing?

But if he has these Ex-Gay on a campaign stop, then that's the end of life as we know it forever more?

God dam! :wow:

[NMMNG]

46. So if Hillary said some pretty words in favor of equal rights for blacks in a church,

That would overturn her (hypothetically) cozying up with Stormfront and the KKK for votes?

[FrenchieCat]

50. So you are saying that this Donnie guy has hung and beaten and burned and murdered

Gay people? Is that what you are saying?

He is equivalent to the KKK?

[Solon]

74. You don't have to personally involve yourself in violence to become a leader in a movement...

and mentality that leads to said violence. Whether its the torture of GLBT teenagers, with the blessing of their own parents in many cases, and churches, to the random beatings, killings, and humiliation of GLBT people by homophobes.

[LostinVA]

122. Yes, that's EXACTLY what the movement he belongs to has done

Hitler didn't kill a single Jew, but he murdered millions.

[NMMNG]

128. Are you capable of staying on topic?

Can you answer a direct question or must you always deflect?

I'll ask it again and we'll see if you can answer it this time.


If Hillary Clinton said a pretty speech where she mentioned equal rights for blacks would you then ignore her (hypothetically) cozying up to Stormfront and the KKK for votes?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

49. Sadly enough some seem to prefere living in their own reality n/t

[Duncan Grant]

71. Yours is an uninformed and irresponsible argument. You're vilifying LGBT people.

It goes to show that some in the GLBT community would want to believe that they have every right to hate and never forgive, but somehow they believe that someone hating them is unacceptable? So which is it? GLBT the only ones allowed to hate without remorse?

When "the State" begins to remove evangelical children from their parents, you can speak to me about LGBT hate.

When evangelicals are so oppressed by the dominant culture that it's a political act for them to "come out", you can speak to me about LGBT hate.

When evangelical children are institutionalized against their will in order to change their heterosexual orientation, you can speak to me about LGBT hate.

When families routinely shun their evangelical children, you can speak to me about LGBT hate.

But they will continue to pile-on and shit on him, cause that's all they have. After all, he ain't nothing by a N...., and has to be 5 times as good to get anywhere.

Unlike Hil....who can do no wrong, cause DOMA was perfectly acceptable.

And to suggest that LGBT people believe Obama "ain't nothing by (sic) a N...., and has to be 5 times as good to get anywhere" is a self-indulgent fantasy on your part. You have no evidence to support such an outrageous claim. That was your voice you heard, not an LGBT one.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

92. That was a great post

I knew she wouldn't respond to it. Trying to calling out the gay community as a whole was a big mistake. Perhaps even an alertable one.

[Mythsaje]

103. It offends the hell out of this straight guy...

So, yeah. I'd say so.

[terrya]

98. I will NEVER forgive the shills of the "ex-gay" movement.

Nor will I forgive the shameless politicians who cravenly accept their support.

[xchrom]

79. kirbyjon and donnie and the other anti-gay gospellers

are direct threats to the health and well being of lgbtq folk.

so talking about that is indeed helpful.

[Egnever]

83. I agree talking about that is helpful

But thats not really what we are talking about in those threads are we. We are using them to cudgel the candidate we disagree with. Its not a discusion of how those peoples views are wrong. Its a discusion of how people who have totaly divergent views from theirs are wrong because they are near them.

I am all for calling out those peoples views as disturbed and totaly wrongheaded. I dont think painting two people who have a history of supporting gay issues as being of the same mindset as them is helpfull in any way whatsoever. I think its dishonest and I think it is using donnie and whoever as a tool to tear down people who have been fighting for gay issues for a long time.

[xchrom]

85. giving very public plartforms to people who are threats to lgbtq folk

is something to point out every time it happens.

obama is smiling at us -- holding out his hand -- while holding a ball bat behind his back.

[cloudythescribbler]

105. Exactly -- this isn't REALLY about defending gay rights, but about USING gay rights as a stick ....

to beat a particular candidate for reasons having little to do with gay rights at all. Although NO candidate's supporters (or bashers) are completely free of this sort of problem, those seeking to bash Obama (oh the protestations to the heavens of their sincerity and pure motives!) seem to be particularly bad.

Inevitably, this kind of observation will be twisted around by some to mean that I either don't oppose or don't care about the kind of politics represented by McClurkin. No -- but Obama clearly drew a bright line between those politics and his own. And now there is the issue of his turning down an endorsement (which I think would be best if he did) from a group linked to a ministry devoted to "curing" gays. Funny, I've never heard of anyone organizing to "help" unhappy heterosexuals by converting them to being gay....

[LeftCoast]

84. Staying silent in the face of homophobia is NEVER helpful to the LGBT community

I'm sorry you don't understand that.

[Enrique]

91. it has NOTHING to do with being helpful to the GLBT community

any more than the racial stuff has to do with helping minority communities.

[terrya]

96. Aha! The "geez, just get over it" memo!

How tediously predictable.

We silly fags and dykes just need to stop being so darned mad and, well...really, depressing about that tiresome homophobia crap.

I knew this would show up here sooner or later. :eyes:

[cloudythescribbler]

107. So it doesn't matter how DUBIOUS a claim of pandering is, or how many threads for how long are ...

devoted to it, or anything by way of perspective at all.

I say the same about such instances as the year-long protestations about Khallid Abdul Maurice Templesman Muhammad, any way you slice it -- people just seized upon the issue of antisemitism to promote their own less enticing agenda. (That's the whole reason for prescribing venues different from the raw facts, ALWAYS to the detriment of progressives and advantage of the right).

[Donald Ian Rankin]

99. Yes, it is. Letting Obama know that pandering to homophobes has a cost is helpful.

I don't think Barack Obama is homophobic himself.

I do think that he may be willing to throw the (immensely powerful) homophobic lobby a few bones in the form of homophobic policies to encourage them to vote for him.

I think it's important for his supporters to be reminded of that fact, so that there will be a cost to him if he does and so that he is aware of that himself.

I don't think the attempts by Obama's supporters to deflect attention by accusing Hillary of not supporting gay rights help the GLBT community, though.

[karynnj]

108. Which homophobic policies are these?

It wasn't him who signed DOMA.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

109. I don't know - I'm not psychic.

Concessions on the legal status of gay marriage, on adoption rights, and on gays in the military, would ll be obvious ones.

It may well be that he won't make any such. But making it more politically costly for him to do so, if/when he does start contemplating it, is a good thing.

[karynnj]

113. This is ridiculous - you are simply speculating

1) Concessions on the legal status of gay marriage - how do you concede something before you have it?
2) It was Clinton who did "don't ask, don't tell."
3) adoption - here I can tell you that on a personal level Michelle and Barack had no problem with a gay couple with a lovely adopted daughter who took dance with their younger daughter. One of them told us a cute story of how one Saturday when BO brought the young girl to dance classes, she was the first one he asked for help when he couldn't get his little girl's hair up the way her mom usually did.

[rucky]

104. Any kind of "______ does it, too" arguement is counterproductive.

It's just a race to the bottom. You will never repair an act of bigotry by calling that person a bigot.

[Cha]

115. Good question, Egnever!

I hope it comes out all right for all those concerned..

"This shit is extremely hateful and has no place on DU on either side. We all want our candidates to win but does it need to be done by using the GLBT community as a tool to bash either candidate? it comes across as disingenuous and opportunistic instead of supportive of the GLBT community.

GLBT rights are a serious issue but if you really care about them tell me what your candidate has done to support them not how many people they have come in contact with who don't."

The reason is comes across as disingenous and opportunistic is because it is and more.

[jlake]

117. Spin it any way you want. Obama will not get my vote EVER.

[ClericJohnPreston]

120. Would that be as "OLD" Egnever

as the Reagan dustup?

What are you going to do when Obama has five scandals going on at once? Are you going to be able to block all those thoughts so effectively?

Cognitive Dissonance is a bitch.

[More Than A Feeling]

125. I'll bet they'd rather have candidates battling for their support

than tripping over each other to shove them into the corner.

[mondo joe]

132. More information is always better. About the candidates. And other posters - like you.