He'll probably lose but

[cali]

Obama will be one of the leaders of the dem party for the forseeable future and will hardly just go away and fade into obscurity. Furthermore, it's likely he'll that he'll be seen as a furture front runner for the presidency no matter what happens.

He's already done what was unthinkable two short months ago: He's put up a credible fight for the nomination against very strong odds. That a black man named Barack Obama has accomplished this is remarkable.

[Windy]

1. I'm still hopeful, but if he doesn't get the nom, I hope he doesnt even consider

running with Clinton.

[Tarc]

2. Hopefully, Obama will not be as childish as you

There's no reason to categorically dismiss the VP slot if Clinton is the presidential candidate. I'd think it'd be rather refreshing to see a ticket composed of two candidates with skills/appeal that complement each other, rather than a VP chosen from a battleground state just to get a leg up there.

[Windy]

4. There absolutely is and you are the naive immature one.

The attack machine will be out against the clintons on day one! Running with the Clintons will only hurt obama for a later run.

I personally have great doubts about Hillary's ability to beat John McCain in a general election. Further, you can count on at least Nader running again if Clinton gets the nomination, maybe even Bloomberg.

I think Barack is a very viable candidate and would make a wonderful president. He doesn't need to attach himself to the Clinton baggage. Its called a long term strategy.

I find your comments extremely offensive.

[MonkeyFunk]

9. The attack machine will be out against

ANY candidate from Day One. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.

[Windy]

14. If you think that any other candidate is as vulnerable as Clinton to attack, you're certifiable.

You better hope and pray that Bill has been a good boy for the past several years. The RNC knew that Clinton would try and run this election cycle. As they were so damn convinced she would walk away with it, trust me, they have had their people on Bill and Hill like flies to shit.

Every piece of dirt will be brought to the fore and quickly.

Why do you think they want her to be the nom so badly?
Why is it that Rove, Noonan and other repub hacks say that hillary will unite the republican party? They know that if HRC is running, especially against McCain, the chances of a win for them grow exponentially.

Get your head out of the sand!!!

[MonkeyFunk]

24. Disagreeing with you

doesn't mean my head is in the sand.

They will attack ANY candidate with the same ferocity. The Clintons have shown an ability to fight back against these attacks. Hillary Clinton is, by far, the most vetted candidate of any running. 75 million dollars was spent investigating them, and they found nothing but a blowjob.

Every time they got attacked by the right, their popularity went up.

[Windy]

26. You will see. This is not going to go well..

Any of our other candidates with the exception of Kucinich or Gravel would have a better shot in the general,especially once the machine gets in gear.

The attacking of the Clinton's only inflamed the dem base. you will not get independents or cross overs with Hillary. You need those to win general elections.

Putting Clinton and her husband out there as the nom which is what it will be as it has become clear that we will have a dual presidency if Hillary gets in, will be the death nell for our party next fall, especially if McCain is the nom.

[Big Blue Marble]

39. The attacks on Clinton will be vicious.

And they will be intended to stir the animosity towards Bill that many Republicans and Independents felt in
the 90's. She is the most vulnerable to attacks of any of our candidates.

Then Bloomberg will come into the race and pickup much of the discontentment.
If he enters the race, I do not think she can be elected.

[vi5]

20. This is no doubt true...

But people already have their minds made up about Clinton. Every single person I know, already knows how they feel about her one way or another. Love her or hate her they've already decided and absolutely nothing is going to change their minds either way. At least someone about whom the electorate knows comparatively little about stands the outside chance of making their case. Hillary has had 15+ years to make her case. The case is made and it is what it is.

I'm not saying Obama is going to magically overcome the attack machine and I'm not even sure I care or want him to given the things he's done and said to irritate me and piss me off politically. So he's another story altogether. But at least he stands an outside chance of making the case and not polarizing people so vehemently.

But the Hillary supporters who don't think she absolutely has more of an uphill battle with regard to perception are I feel not being honest with themselves and based off of what I've been reading on this board over the past month, nothing anyone says is going to convince them otherwise, so.......

[Tarc]

18. "The attack machine" will be out against ANYONE

You think the Rovian Wheels of Politics are only going to try to roll over Hillary Clinton? It'll hit any candidate up there, but at least she and Bill have a good 20-25 years of experience fighting it. They've done a pretty good job so far in outmaneuvering the Obama campaign on severals fronts, and will have no trouble handling the Republican shit-storm, as it is all old hat.

As for Obama and "long-term strategy", Democratic Party candidates for president rarely get a chance for a second act. Ask Kerry, Dukakis, Mondale, Gore, etc... If he hops on the VP bandwagon, he's setup nicely for 2016. If not then he's a Senator-for-life, which isn't so bad of a thing either.

And I really do not care if you're offended. Toughen up that skin a bit, as politics isn't a place for the weak.

[Windy]

22. Oh I have thick skin, but your attacks are juvenile

I do think that the attack machine against Hillary will be worse and that they will have much more ammo to use against her as they have no doubt been collecting it over the years.

But as another poster said, convincing the Hillary supporters of the obvious is a losing proposition.

That is too bad for this country.

[Tarc]

34. Trying to pry the Obamaniacs head out of the clouds

and their asses is the true losing losing proposition. Whatever ammo is against the Clintons has been seen, done, and heard before. Again, old hat.

But hey, good luck with that "hope" campaign. :rofl:

[Egnever]

35. And it will run just as well as a sequal as it did the first time

But this time they will be smearing both of them instead of just Bill for the most part. If theres anything that can save the GOP its Bill and Hillary.

[Big Blue Marble]

40. She is not covered in teflon.

When Bill was under fire in the 90's, the economy was great and the people did not want to rock their boats.
And that "same old hat' attack" has significant staying power.


You guys are big, big denial. Hope you enjoy the race this fall, if she is the nominee.

[Tarc]

41. I'll enjoy it far more

than watching a green, one-term senator get trounced.

[Big Blue Marble]

42. Are you speaking about a senator who would be drawing independent

and moderate voters? That guy? Naw, don't let no Repubs or indies vote for our candidate.
That just wouldn't be right.

[LeftCoast]

48. You seriously think the repubs have been holding back ammo on Clinton?

LOL

[GalleryGod]

13. Like Obama would have ANY power or responsibility in a Hillary Regime?

Off in a Bill Clinton Broom Closet for 8 years...not exactly a great place for a 46 year old eloquent,orator to be...not a chance folks.

[Windy]

27. Agreed. We are looking at a co-presidency. A "change" we want? I don't think so. n/t

[durrrty libby]

33. He needs to go orate in mega churces. He is a good fit there

The masses can swoon with hope

[Big Blue Marble]

36. It would be political suicide for Obama to run with Clinton.

She represents the aspects of the party and the country, he is running against.
Obama represents the future of this party and the future of this country.

Hillary represents the past. If the country choose to go backward now,
it is only temporary and Obama will be ready to take the country forward.

[MonkeyFunk]

3. We agree on this

If he doesn't win this time, he's surely an automatic frontrunner in the future.

[GalleryGod]

16. That worked out really well for Teddy Kennedy.

1. He will run as Top of ticket or nothing.

2. Why would he volunteer to be the "VP in Bill Clinton's Broom Closet" for 8 years?
Totally muzzled by whatever Redux Bill appointee run their media office.

3. He may NOT run again...sorry folks,I'ts happened before.

[MonkeyFunk]

19. Of course he may not run again

but I suspect he will.

Kennedy couldn't have run much sooner than he did, and then he ran against an incumbent Democrat. I don't think the two are comparable.

[GalleryGod]

21. Well, I'm sorry that Mayor Daley and my Uncle, Richard Hughes (Gov. of N.J.)

are both gone now...because they'd step up and tell you that the SOONEST Teddy could've had the "nod" was in Chicago, as the compromise candidate. Sen. McGovern was holding ALL RFK's delegates and was willing to put them behind Teddy,also.

Teddy,again, was INdecisive in the late Summer/Fall of 1971. So...even Gary Hart's/George McGovern's Insurgency, would've been blunted by a Teddy run. They felt emboldened,however, to take on Senator Muskie.

That's the way IT WAS. In that horrible year of 1968 and four years later in that almost mythical ride that McGovern-Hart-Pat Caddell-and Gene Porkorny took across he country.

[MonkeyFunk]

23. Are you saying

Kennedy had a reasonable shot in '72, 3 years after Chappaquiddick? I don't.

[leftynyc]

37. Not true

A sitting VP is usually the automatic frontrunner.

[Little Star]

5. I totally agree! I said the same to Katz a while back. It is also

true of Hillary if she does not win. she's already done what was unthinkable two short months ago: she's put up a credible fight for the nomination against very strong odds. That a woman accomplished this is remarkable.

[ccpup]

6. you're right, cali

Obama is here to stay and will assuredly will be one of the most popular Democrats we have. And, with more years in the Senate and a continuation of his conversation with the American Voter, I trust a future run at the Presidency will be nothing but successful.

[Captain Hilts]

7. Don't give up! There are a lot of primaries to go. nt

[izzie]

8. I sure like this Obama. I would so like to see him win.

I do think the country is moving to people who think like him, it just may take longer to get them all in place. It is not easy to move 300 million people but I do feel that they are going to the like of Obama. New, modern and the type that hears what people say. God will not help us if we put in these old f---- I am just sure about that.

[Meshuga]

10. Too soon to say that he will probably lose

Let's see what will happen on Super Tuesday. :-)

[rucky]

11. Michelle seems to disagree.

I kinda wish he'd have waited. But maybe VP if Hillary wins?

[GalleryGod]

17. Waited? How'd that work out for Teddy?

I agree with Michelle Obama, to wit,
"We're NOT doing this again".

[wyldwolf]

12. I agree with that 100%

[BeyondGeography]

15. A fair portion of the party has already rallied around him

He broadens the appeal of the Dems to younger voters and independents, plays well in the red states and comes from a key segment of the base. No one else comes close in terms of his ability to inspire people. Obama is far more valuable to the future of this party than the Clintons. For that reason alone, he should be the nominee.

[Windy]

28. They're rallied around him for a lot of the reasons stated. They know that the clintons

are devisive and will be a detriment to the long term health and growth of the party.

[rox63]

25. What makes you think he'll lose?

There are lots of states still to come.

[Auntie Bush]

29. I agree with everything you say and have been hoping that myself..

Except for your post heading about him probably losing. Don't be so pesimistic. He still has a good chance of winning. I wouldn't write him off yet. However I personally hope he is our presidential nominee in 2016 after he has had the experience of being VP or a cabinet member in this election. He'll be unbeatable!

[Nimrod2005]

30. I don'ty think he could lose, very much alive....Saw a segment this morning

It is going to be the delegates even if he wins fewer states, maybe even fewer votes...He will have enough delegates to run the table.

Not over by a long shot.

[loveangelc]

44. when you say "run the table" what does that mean?

if no one has the majority of delegates and one has more than the other...what happens?

[Nimrod2005]

45. People will make deals, those with more delegates have a stronger role to play

Obama can offer Hillary the VP spot in exchange for delegates...etc.

[loveangelc]

46. oo ok. Well I think it's more likely he offers Edwards the VP for delegates imo.

thats why I hope Edwards stays in the race and gets a lot of delegates.

[Joe the Revelator]

31. "He'll probably lose"

Cali, just shut up and stop trying to be everything to every camp on the board.

[Renew Deal]

32. Obama has nothing to lose. Hillary has everything to lose.

There's a big difference. This is Hillary's only shot. And she will not be president, so Obama will have other shots if he doesn't make it this time.

[Cha]

38. I think Obama is going to win..

and if I'm not right then I'll be disappointed but right now I'm thinking he will win.

[loveangelc]

43. If Hillary is the nominee he will be the frontrunner in 2012

against President McCain.

[ChiciB1]

47. Folks! You're Getting Hillary... Hang On... Have Fun... & Good Luck! n/t

[JuniperLea]

49. This must have been a humiliating kick in the crotch for him...

January 20, 2008

The Honorable John R. Edwards
410 Market Street
Suite 400
Chapel Hill, NC 27516

Dear Senator Edwards:

It was good meeting with you yesterday and discussing my father's legacy. On the day when the nation will honor my father, I wanted to follow up with a personal note.

There has been, and will continue to be, a lot of back and forth in the political arena over my father's legacy. It is a commentary on the breadth and depth of his impact that so many people want to claim his legacy. I am concerned that we do not blur the lines and obscure the truth about what he stood for: speaking up for justice for those who have no voice.

I appreciate that on the major issues of health care, the environment, and the economy, you have framed the issues for what they are - a struggle for justice. And, you have almost single-handedly made poverty an issue in this election.

You know as well as anyone that the 37 million people living in poverty have no voice in our system. They don't have lobbyists in Washington and they don't get to go to lunch with members of Congress. Speaking up for them is not politically convenient. But, it is the right thing to do.

I am disturbed by how little attention the topic of economic justice has received during this campaign. I want to challenge all candidates to follow your lead, and speak up loudly and forcefully on the issue of economic justice in America.

From our conversation yesterday, I know this is personal for you. I know you know what it means to come from nothing. I know you know what it means to get the opportunities you need to build a better life. And, I know you know that injustice is alive and well in America, because millions of people will never get the same opportunities you had.

I believe that now, more than ever, we need a leader who wakes up every morning with the knowledge of that injustice in the forefront of their minds, and who knows that when we commit ourselves to a cause as a nation, we can make major strides in our own lifetimes. My father was not driven by an illusory vision of a perfect society. He was driven by the certain knowledge that when people of good faith and strong principles commit to making things better, we can change hearts, we can change minds, and we can change lives.

So, I urge you: keep going. Ignore the pundits, who think this is a horserace, not a fight for justice. My dad was a fighter. As a friend and a believer in my father's words that injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, I say to you: keep going. Keep fighting. My father would be proud.

Sincerely,

Martin L. King, III