Political family dynasties SUCK! Just look at these HORRIBLE examples...

[TwilightZone]

Our history provides some really terrible examples of "family rule": the Adams, the Roosevelts and the Kennedys.

I mean, come on. They were horrible, right? They just ruined America!

That FDR guy, for example. Somebody should have told him that we'd already had a Roosevelt in the White House, and one is all history allows. Hell, who needs the New Deal, the SEC, Social Security or the FDIC?

Then, there's RFK. What was he thinking running for president; wasn't one Kennedy enough? His stances on Civil Rights and other issues should have been overridden by his familiar last name.

Same thing with Teddy Kennedy. Never mind that he's fought for liberal issues for his entire political career; his name alone should have disqualified him from running for president. Only one Kennedy allowed.

First, but not least, we know that the Founding Fathers couldn't have possibly wanted members of the same family to be president, which must explain why John Quincy Adams followed his father, a Founding Father, to the presidency.

All he did was author the Monroe Doctrine and later argue that if a Civil War broke out, the president could abolish slavery by using his war powers. Like that ever amounted to much.

[babylonsister]

1. Just ducky. Are you ready for Jeb in 8 years? nt

[TwilightZone]

4. Pessimistic, are we?

What makes you think that we'll give the White House up in eight years? If Obama doesn't win the nomination and the presidency this election, I see no reason for him not to be a very solid candidate for 2016.

After the disaster of Junior, I think that we may be in the White House for a very long time.

[Orangepeel]

28. what does that have to do with anything?

If Jeb is going to run, he's going to run, regardless of who our nominee is now.

There are plenty of reasons that one might choose not to support Clinton for president, but a paranoid fear of a dynasty isn't one of them.

[Atman]

30. Jeb is far more likely to run if The People show tolerance for this bullshit.

Jesus. Are you mad? If we repudiate everything Bush and BushCo stand for, and let the families know that we're sick of this shit, why would Jeb run and who would give him money to do so? But as long as We The People demonstrate how brain-dead we are as a nation, and keep sending the same criminals back into the same offices to do more of the same damage, sure..what's to make Jeb think it's not worth a go? I'm just dumbfounded at how so many people STILL seem to think elections have no consequences or send no messages...Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid notwithstanding. They're complicit anyway, and part of the whole mess which needs to be cleaned out.

.

[TwilightZone]

33. Apparently, some think that 12 years of Bush is somehow proof of Hillary's "dynasty"...

and now a potential Jeb run that is currently nothing but a pipe dream is also her fault!

Hillary shouldn't run for president because Bush did...and Jeb...uh...might...someday.

Sometimes this place is pretty amusing.

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. were any of them married to a former president?

I mean,that FDR guy was secretary of the Navy, right? Then a state senator, then governor of New York.

That RFK guy was attorney general and a senator.

And last time I checked, FDR was president 32 years after Teddy.

Adams was president 28 years after his father.

And no other Kennedy ever got elected.

Oh, and neither one of them had their namesake campaigning with them, or have them available to serve in the White House with them.

[wyldwolf]

so, if a dynasty meets all your caveats, it isn't a dynasty?

[TwilightZone]

9. It's only a dynasty if...

1) The members are husband and wife
2) There's an eight-year separation between their presidencies
3) Their last names are both Clinton

That seems to be the criteria being applied.

[THUNDER HANDS]

12. to me, a dynasty is

when one ruling group, or family, assumes and holds power over a long stretch of time with no breaks in between.

I'd say the Clinton and Bush camps are, and have been, angling for a co-dynasty for a while now.

Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton over a possible 24-year span is a dynasty, even if they are from different parties.

Anyone breaking that up, whether it would be Obama or Edwards or McCain or Huckabee, would be not part of that dynasty.

FDR and Teddy wasn't a dynasty because they occurred so far apart, five presidents.

The Kennedy's were more of a regional dynasty - but they never became a national one like the Bush's and Clintons because RFK was shot and Ted failed in 1980.

The Adams' also, were too far apart, separated by three presidents.

Clinton would be separated from her husband by just one president, who himself was separated from his father by one president.

[wyldwolf]

24. "to me." Fortunately, you don't define it for anyone but yourself.

[THUNDER HANDS]

26. well, yeah

I mean, you didn't ask for the textbook definition did you?

[TwilightZone]

7. Your caveats are interesting.

Perhaps you can explain how RFK would have had his namesake campaigning with him?

Same with Teddy Kennedy.

I guess it was OK for RFK to run because his namesake was dead.

By the way, RFK probably would have been elected.

[GalleryGod]

23. TZ: You are 100% correct in that analysis.

Richard Daley called my "Uncle Dick" Hughes,sitting Governor of N.J., and the 1968 DNC's Credentials Committee Chairman private line , 55 minutes before Bobby was shot and told him,point blank:

" Dick? Dick Daley here. I guess it's Bobby. We can deal with him, Hubert is a drag. We MUST insist on LOTS of input on his running mate,though".

Hughes: "I agree. I'll call Teddy."

Daley: " Great! I'll call Steve" (Steven Smith,Bobby's brother in law, and Campaign Mgr.)

Hughes: "See you in Chicago, Mr. Mayor" *



* from an interview I did with Chief Justice Richard J. Hughes, of the N.J. State Supreme Court in May, 1977.

I miss him every day.

[TwilightZone]

29. The world would have been a different place.

On a related note, had RFK lived to face Nixon in the '68 presidential context, I suspect that Nixon would have declared that he was getting a little tired of family political dynasties, too! :)

[GalleryGod]

8. Bobby= 3 years as AG;3 years as N.Y. Senator...then..

*

What a passionate presidential candidate!












*from my private collection, sorry about the 40 years of wear and tear.
Grab it if you want,enjoy!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. And no other Kennedy ever got elected.

You forgot Patrick Kennedy and Kathleen Kennedy...

[THUNDER HANDS]

37. elected president

[Atman]

3. BZZZZZT! NEXT.

Nice try. You won't be going to Hollywood with that audition.

.

[GalleryGod]

5. Well...I enjoyed the sarcasm. FDR & Teddy R. were barely related

they didn't even pronunce the last name the same.
FDR= rose-a-velt

Teddy= Roooooooooz-velt.

[SaveElmer]

31. Just as misleading...

In fact Teddy was FDR's idol...and Eleanor was Teddy's niece. Teddy gave her away at the their wedding. While the relationship was distant in terms of bloodline, the relationship between them personally was much close...

[TwilightZone]

38. Some seem to want to exclude Hillary simply because of her last name.

That's primarily why I included the Roosevelts in the OP. "Can't have another Roosevelt" was a swipe at "Can't have another Clinton."

[sniffa]

6. Here's another great family dynasty

[GalleryGod]

11. Hey! I need to wipe off my keyboard!

:spray: :rofl: :patriot:

[cali]

10. Learn just a little history

TR and FDR were distant cousins. And I mean distant- as in fifth cousins. do you have a clue as how distant that is? You've been informed of it. They're not much more related than Obama and Cheney who are something like ninth cousins. They shared the same name. It's simply misleading to suggest anythig else.

[GalleryGod]

14. Actually...it was quite OK,Cali (the OP) .

My class in The American Presidency is still in "drop & add" period. (shameless pimping of upper division Poli Sci course! :rofl: ) BUT...you guys will all have to commute to Philly 3X per week!

[ClericJohnPreston]

39. My hometown

Must have missed you at Temple where I had a double major in Political Science and History, before moving on to Villanova Law.

[TwilightZone]

18. What's your excuse for the Kennedys?

Let me guess - RFK was never elected.

[GalleryGod]

27. Bobby was indeed, SPECIAL,TZ

You should've seen him DIVE into those crowds,losing cufflinks,ties,even a SHOE in L.A.


Bobby at Berkley.

[cali]

32. What does that have to do with anything? I'm not making any excuses

or endorsing anything. I'm pointing out that you are in error. not that you care. you already knew that. you misrepresented the facts when you included TR and FDR in your OP. What the hell is your excuse for that bit of cheap rhetoric?

[TwilightZone]

36. Well, you dated David which you said makes you an expert on the Kennedys.

So I thought that you'd have some brilliant claim for how the Kennedys don't fit the pattern, either.

Guess not. The underlying assertion of my OP stands. The "dynasty" meme is a joke.

Edit: since you're the expert on the Roosevelts, as well, what do you think of this assertion: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4140244&mesg_id=4141123

[Orangepeel]

47. He was much more closely related to Eleanor

In addition to being a 5th cousin, Teddy was FDR's uncle-in-law. (which is neither here nor there, but interesting nonetheless).

[MethuenProgressive]

13. Ever since Rush Limbaugh invented the "No Dynasty" meme, Duers have parroted his propaganda.

It shows how shallow the "thinking" goes, in my opinion.

[TwilightZone]

15. It's a ridiculous meme.

I just love how Bush and Clinton are conveniently lumped together for the sake of the meme. Never mind that there's an eight-year separation of their potential terms. Never mind that Hillary is nothing like Dubya.

This is from the same people who brought us the delightful "There's no difference between Gore and Bush" meme.

[GalleryGod]

17. "Small potatoes" as Ted Sorenson says.

[TwilightZone]

21. The author of "Ask not what your country can do for you", was he not?

That guy could write a speech. Still can.

[GalleryGod]

25. Indeed he was, TZ

[GalleryGod]

16. Good "get" ,MP....I didn't know old Oxycotin was the perpetrator of this meme!?

:puke: :argh: WhatttttttaDick!

[IndianaGreen]

41. Hey, the Left has been saying the same thing long before Rush did

I am all for a French style revolution!

[William769]

19. Kepp beating thwm over the head with the truth TwilightZone!

[TwilightZone]

51. More like...

banging my head against a wall. :)

[Rageneau]

20. How come none of you "Dynasty-Fearers" raised a peep when Smirk was running?

I pay close attention to politics and I know for a fact that when Smirk ran eight years after his father served, mot one voice was publically raised about a possible "dynasty."

The ONLY time I hear the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton?? critique raised is when it contains the name Clinton. No one seemed to have a problem when it only contained the name Bush.

For my money, everyone bitching about a Clinton 'dynasty" is actually a right-wing troll, lurking here to create whatever discord they can.

If not that, then they are at the very least, big hypocrites. since they didn't raise this complaint in the past.

[TwilightZone]

22. It's just a convenient excuse. It's easier than discussing the issues.

There are plenty of things to criticize about Hillary Clinton. Her name is not one of them.

[Kucinich4America]

43. I sure as fuck raised more than a peep

Hell, I even voted for McCain in the 'Puke primary just to vote against the treasonous little bastard. And if you don't think that was a sacrifice, you should have read the shit that the state Republican party loaded my mailbox with for the next 4 years. :scared:

[David Zephyr]

34. And after Bill and Hillary comes Jeb for 8 years and then...Chelsea will be over 35 and can run.

Of course, at some point, the Bush and Clintons, of course, will have to inter-marry as royals did in Europe to maintain the throne.

[IndianaGreen]

40. Think of the Borgias or the Romanovs, or of Evita and Juan Peron

We'll get Jeb Bush four years from now, and we will become the laughingstock of the planet.

[TwilightZone]

42. I'll stick with U.S. examples, thanks.

They're at least loosely relevant.

[IndianaGreen]

46. America had no history of dynastic rule, until now.

I am sure those Hamiltonian "Democrats" wet their pants thinking about it, just as their hero did. I prefer Jefferson!

[LanternWaste]

44. It seems inherently more democratic

It seems inherently more democratic (to me) to judge a candidate based on their qualifications rather than blood lines or pedigree. The latter seems somewhat intolerant and narrow at best.

But, as it's currently one of the trendier defenses against allowing particular candidates to run for office, I imagine it will continue until the primaries are over (but start all over again if Amy Carter ever decides to run for office...)

[TwilightZone]

50. Agreed on all counts.

Disqualifying a candidate simply because of his or her name - whether it be last name or middle name - seems ridiculous to me, as does disqualifying them based on their family history. Is he or she the best candidate? If the answer is "yes", then the name should be irrelevant.

As I said elsewhere in the thread, it's a convenient excuse used to avoid coming up with something more substantial. There are plenty of issues to address re: our candidates. This isn't one of them.

Part of it could also be what I like to call "newcomer's disease". People inherently believe that a "new" candidate will magically alter the political landscape. That seems to be a common theme in the "dynasty" threads.

[suston96]

45. BTW, John Adams? Coming in March - at an HBO channel near you.....

http://www.hbo.com/films/johnadams/

From the celebrated David McCullough biography, which I own - and yes, have read it all.

John Adams wrote the Massachusetts Constitution, ratified in 1780 - listed as the oldest living, working Constitution on the planet.

It is said that when he was working on it at his desk, his wife Abigail reminded him to "remember the women, John. Remember the women."

[TwilightZone]

48. I've heard that it's supposed to be very good.

I'll definitely have to check it out.

[suston96]

49. I could not put the book down and I often refer to it when period historicals come up on TV.

I recommend folks watch the TV program, but check the book out also. Last I read it was in its 3rd printing.