Hillary vs Obama on the issue of gay marriage

[LittleClarkie]

Obama's quote:

"I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

http://pilgrimsole.blogspot.com/2007/12/god-is-still-speaking.html

Hillary's quote:

"Hillary Clinton and Gay Marriage: Some gay and lesbian voters don't feel like Hillary Clinton has done enough to support gay and lesbian rights, while others believe she is the best candidate for gay and lesbian issues. Clinton opposes gay marriage but supports civil unions between members of the same sex. During her husband's administration, she supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a law preventing the federal recognition of same-sex marriage.

"Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time, and I think a marriage is as a marriage always has been, between a man and a woman." - Hillary Clinton, opposing same-sex marriages, quoted in The New York Daily News.

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/HillaryClinton.htm

To be fair, some have said that Hillary apologized for stating her opposition in this way, but without link. If you have a link to that apology, I'd appreciate it.

Nevertheless, it seems her opposition still stands.

Other questions I have include:

-How do either of these stances are all that different from most of the other candidates on this issue, either in 2008 or 2004.

-Didn't most of the Dem candidates in the last two elections favor civil unions over gay marriage? Did those who held this opinion cite some sort of religious reason? I know Kerry did. Not sure about the others.

-Is Hillary's or Obama's stance on this issue somehow better, or worse, than what we've seen before in other Dem candidates from the last two elections? If worse, why?

Discuss.

[msongs]

1. kucinich favors gay marriage. Edwards' religion is against it and so is he nt

[Barack_America]

2. If your top issue is gay marriage, your top candidates are Gravel and Kucinich.

Sorry.

[LittleClarkie]

3. Sorry for what?

Actually it's not my top issue. But after watching to board today for a little while, I'm left wondering how one set of supporters can hammer a candidate on this issue when their candidate's position is very close, and when most of the candidate's in the last two elections felt the same, and stated their positions in a similar fashion.

How is Obama's opposition different from Hillary's, or many of the candidates for the last two elections? Did they not also frame their opposition around religion in some way.

I have a bit of an ulterior motive, what with my candidate being who he is and all. But I'm still open to discussion on the issue. If someone can come up with a reason why Hillary's stance is better than Obama's, or any of the Dem candidates who have opposed gay marriage in the past, favoring civil unions insttead, I'd like to hear it.

Just not sure why it's being held up as a point against Obama, when it could be argued that it's a point against several people in the race, Dennis and Gravel notwithstanding.

[Barack_America]

4. Sorry that there's not much distinction between Obama and Clinton...

Sorry that none of the big three are in favor of it.

[no name no slogan]

5. Quite frankly, the differences between Clinton and Obama are more style than substance

They're very very similar on just about every issue-- which is probably why their supporters are busy tearing each other new ones at every turn.

[LittleClarkie]

7. Is Edwards much different either, really?

Is it style with him as well?

I'm trying to stay a bit above the fray, even if I am supporting Obama. If I see something out of line, I say so, even if it's not my candidate. Or at least I alert, anyway.

[no name no slogan]

9. I think Edwards is quite similar, too

I think it reallly comes down more to experience and style than anything at this point. The only two that are reallly different are Kucinich and Gravel, and they're basically out of the running.

I'd take any of them at this point, but I really wish there was a bit more dialog about the issues that Edwards and Kucinich are talking about ("free trade", economic justice, etc.)

[sandnsea]

8. It's proven record vs proven liar

The difference between what Obama did in Illinois in the 90's and what Clinton did in DC is clear and vastly different. In his 2002 speech, he not only opposed the war, he exposed Perle and Wolfowitz and their phony agenda, while Hillary was giving it merit with her vote. He wants to change our foreign policy, become global partners and providing inspiration and hope. She wants to continue the slicing and dicing and resource driven foreign policy of the past. His stimulus plan gives assistance through payroll taxes and social security so the poor are helped, hers skips us. Her health care plan relies on tax credits which poor people can't use, his relies on subsidies. The devil is in the details and his are ten times better to the people who have most at stake.

[LittleClarkie]

6. This is my first primary season as a politically aware person

I guess I'm scratching my head at the fake outrage between two candidates who's stance on that issue is nearly the same as each other and most of the candidates we've fielded in the last 8 years or so.

I guess that's politics for you. Throw something at your opponent and see if it sticks, even if it's disingenouous.

[no name no slogan]

10. It's the truth

My first presidential election I voted in was in 1988, and I'd say the top three are more alike than any of the previous groups of frontrunners form other elections.

I liken it to that crosstown rivalry between two high schools: they're so close that they can't stand each other. I've always thought that's why the Repubs hated Clinton so much: he co-opted big parts of their platform (like NAFTA and "welfare reform"), and they hated his guts for it.

Either way, I'd say any of our candidates are head and shoulders above whatever the GOP flings at the American people.