Obama files a formal complaint about illegal Clinton tactics in NV

[mckeown1128]

It is the second story down.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

Here is the actual complaint
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/NV001.PDF

The Obama camp has received over a thousand complaints about misconduct violations of rules and irregularities. The second link is a must read...but here is a quick rundown of the complaints.


-"Obama supporters were being told that they could not register to vote because the sign in sheet was only for Clinton voters."

-"In precinct 21, a Democratic worker...(who was clearly for Hillary) refused to register Obama supporters and said she was only registering Hillary supporters."

-"A Clinton supporter...tried to take our box containing precinct packet and voter registration forms, I had to run her down. By the time I found her she had thrown things out."

-"Hillary people were turning our supporters away, by asking to see their ID's and telling them that they weren't valid."

The most obscene was the copy of the Clinton memo that told supporters to be aggressive and that "it's not illegal unless they tell you."

Many more go into details about Obama and Edwards supporters being turned way at the door at 11:30 and encouraging Hillary supporters to pressure the party officials to close the doors. Hillary Precinct captains pocket voter preference cards of Obama supporters. A side note for the "sour grapes posts to come"...the complaint clearly states that they are not trying to reverse the caucus results.

[DJ13]

1. Someone needs to send a link to that story to Olberman

Lets see if he would do a segment about it.

[rodeodance]

9. and the Clinton campaign will send over their testimonials they are collecting.

[Hello_Kitty]

16. Yeah, we already heard Bill's claim that he "overheard" voter suppression in a loud casino

John Stewart did a nice job skewering that on TDS.

[babylonsister]

25. Done! nt

[truebrit71]

2. Wow...I knew she was dirty and desperate...but THIS takes the cake...

...this kind of behaviour we expect from rethuglicans...not fellow Democrats...

She must REALLY be worried then to resort to this sort of rat-fucking...

Gobama!! Go Edwards! Go Anyone but HRC!!!

[rodeodance]

12. yup--whinning again--same ol, same ol

[tigervalentine]

26. hey rodeodance

When Hillary does it, spell it "whinnying." When the rest of do it, it's just plain old "whining."

[izzie]

3. Time to rid our self of all the group that went to school with Nixon

I guess any thing to win. One does get sick of it.

[rodeodance]

4. and the Clinton cam is collecting

testimonials. it will be a draw.

[Cha]

5. "A 1000 complaints"!! I guess you'd have to do something

about that..did they think no one would notice or did they give a shit?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

6. waaaahhh.

[IndianaJones]

7. boohoo

[KennedyGuy]

8. Gawd..I can find a thousand Hill folks to say the same thing

How come this did not happen in Iowa...I didn't see Hill supporters going into this mad froth frenzy because they lost.
Anything but absolute Obama victory will be called false..rigged..and phony by his supporters..

[AX10]

14. Obama is the Bush of 2008.

He is not to be questioned. But should anything not go his way, he has the right to crucify you.

[mckeown1128]

17. What does your statement have to do with the events

that I listed in my post? What question for Obama do you have about the info in my post? Do you just go around randomly posting attacks with no facts.

[AX10]

22. "No facts" You mean like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4173519&mesg_id=4173656

I am sick of hearing about how everytime Obama does not get his way, there is "fraud".

[mckeown1128]

32. I don't understand what you are getting at....

can you explain what I am looking for in your link?

[AX10]

33. The poster says that they will not vote for Clinton...

and gives no reason as to why.

[mckeown1128]

41. Well that is their problem....

I know who I am voting for and I know why. My post has nothing to do with my "not wanting to vote for Clinton". It does have to do with a disturbing set of events that seems to have been a theme in Clinton's Nevada election plan. I have a problem with that.

[Andromeda]

60. Do you go around posting attacks without facts?

Looks like that to me. Show me some proof, or STFU.

[Dogmudgeon]

10. An Obama blogger on anti-Clinton Politico

You're right -- it's not sour grapes. It's for the media, who won't investigate it at all.

--p!

[rodeodance]

13. a good treatment for sour grapes is LOTS of sun.

[Dogmudgeon]

19. Investigate 'em all

Spot audits for ALL the campaigns. No exceptions.

Whining to the press is NOT an effective way to bring about change. Complete accountability and patency in our elections will only happen if the voters make it happen by demanding it.

--p!

[Hutzpa]

61. huh... huh you're used to

having your way, so time to twist, turn and shout for

corrupt regime. (Status Quo)

[mckeown1128]

23. The memo went to the NV Dem chair....I have yet to hear about it

on the MSM.

[MediaBabe]

11. If Obama had enough aides and volunteers

None of that would have happened. It's odd that he didn't have enough volunteers to keep order in the caucuses but had plenty to piss and moan after it was all over.

Getting out the vote takes people. People working for the candidate of their choice. To me it looks like Obama couldn't cut the mustard when it came to people working for his candidacy.

[mckeown1128]

15. I guess you are right....

that he didn't have enough aides and volunteers(since they were being blocked at the doors) to counter Clinton's people from hiding the voter registration forms. Yeah good point. :sarcasm:

[DemCam]

18. this reeks of nonsense

[MediaBabe]

29. Pretend you're a volunteer

You work for Obama. You've been stumping for him for weeks in your local precinct. You've been trained and received briefings and told what to expect and how to keep order in your caucus. You've been taught the dirty tricks that have been played out in the past in heated contests -

Now, are you going to be shut out at the door? Are you going to be so late that Clinton volunteers have beaten you to the punch? Are you going to meekly allow them to pocket cards and violate whatever rules they choose?

YOU. YOU are the volunteer who has given your time for this caucus. What are YOU going to do? Are you going to do your part to get Obama supporters into the room or are you just going to step aside and allow Clinton supporters to run the show?

1000 complaints. His people were non existent. My opinion is that he simply does not have the people supporting him as many think he does. No volunteers means no help on the ground where and when it's needed - At the caucus on caucus day.

[mckeown1128]

36. did you read the links i posted....

The Obama supporters talk about having to chase down Clinton supporters to keep them from throwing out their voter registration packets. They also talk about calling the cops and cutting locks off of back doors to let supporters in. You try to knock Obama's campaign for not having enough people to protect against voter suppression. What about the Hillary campaign? Was this a well organized attempt to stop Obama and Edwards voters or were they running around with little leadership. Don't try to blame voter suppression on those that are the victim of it.

[MediaBabe]

39. I don't think you're pretending hard enough

Did you put yourself in their place? Did you imagine if YOU would have allowed all that to happen if it were YOU volunteering at that caucus site?

I can tell you for sure - if it were ME I would have not allowed doors to be locked or cards to be unsupervised and collected by the opponents volunteer. That's what you're there for. To see the rules are followed equally.

Either Obama had no supporters at most of the caucuses or his staff didn't see any reason to have them properly trained for the job for which they volunteered. Neither is a good omen for a man who wants to run the whole country. What other details are too small to be delegated or bothered with?

[mckeown1128]

42. What?!

you use the fact that Obama voters got suppressed as a reason not to elect Obama...but you give Clinton a pass on the fact that her campaign workers were trained to do the F@#$ked up voter suppression things. By your logic the it is the fault of Gore and Kerry that the elections were stolen from them.

[MediaBabe]

65. By my logic a man who cannot organize campaign staff

May not be ready for the big time. If he cannot choose staff, delegate responsibilities, see to proper training and run a campaign organization how is he going to run the country?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

66. WTF?

Are you saying that one candidate's volunteers should have free reign to violate rules if there aren't enough volunteers for the other candidates to stop them?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. Blaming the victim, eh?

:rofl:

[rufus dog]

64. oh my fucking god

And it was Gore's fault in Florida! how fucking lame are you.

Bush sent in the super team, Gore played it through proper channels!

[Zodiak]

20. I find it interesting that no one is simply stating

That if these allegations are true, they do not speak well for our party or the future of this country. They are deplorable and should be put to an end. No one should EVER be trying to prevent people from casting their legitimate vote.

1000's of complaints may very well have a basis in fact, and they should be investigated.

Does this memo exist? If it does, it raises questions....questions about who we are supporting and if we are willing to put up with Bush-like tactics of voter suppression from our side. I, for one, am not.

[Bitwit1234]

21. Someone should tell him to put a lid on it

if he doesn't win he figures out a way to whine and try to get sypathy...Did someone say his name was SOUR GRAPES....

[mckeown1128]

24. You sound just like the republicans after the...

2000 and 2004 election.

[desi]

35. The Obamabots are all about Drama.

Drama and Whine!

[sniffa]

46. You should make this an OP

I'll gladly recommend it. :thumbsup:

[TeamJordan23]

27. Where is Bill's formal complaint? nm

[mckeown1128]

30. good point.. lol

there is an example of real voter suppression... Someone was trying to suppress Clinton supporters so much they didn't notice Bill Clinton...or his 20 secret service agents, or his personal aides, or the print press, or the cable news producers, or chelsea all of which were apparently right there in ear shot at the time. That Obama supporter must have been screaming really loudly telling the Clinton supporter that they couldn't vote.


Do I even need to put the sarcasm symbol?

[desi]

28. Please President and Senator Clinton

I beg of you

[Kerrytravelers]

31. Well, unfortunately, I was a volunteer and a witness to this. However, I think this reflects badly

on a handful of volunteers and not of Hilary Clinton herself. In fact, when someone did not realize I was a volunteer, they tried the "you have to reregister to vote to be allowed in the caucus" act with me. Thankfully, there were enough people from all the various candidates (including the Clinton campaign) at the caucus I was at to step in and peacefully stop this. I do hope this is behavior by a handful of wayward supporters in one state and that this doesn't spread to the other states among the various campaigns.

[creeksneakers2]

38. Who runs individual caucuses?

Are the people in charge and the volunteers first timers? Do most of the people running the caucuses also support a single candidate?

I'm wondering if these result come from poor organization coupled with over-motivated volunteers.

[Kerrytravelers]

49. This was my first time at a caucus.

The people running it were actually part of the caucus, with t-shirts on indicating their preference. However, at the one I was at, it was very calm and respectful. Everything was out in the open and the room was very calm and orderly. No one walked away with hard feelings. In fact, the Clinton and Obama supporters were liking the idea of a ticket with both Hillary and Barack, one as pres and one as vp. That got the room pretty damn excited!

I was asked to go and observe and call in to report any questionable activities- by any candidates supporters. There had been many complaints and "neutral" volunteers were needed as outside observers. Being from out of state, I was considered neutral. The candidate I was there to volunteer for also wanted to know if any of his supporters were behaving in this manner. I was to stop that immediately.

I would think that in the future, the state party should have neutral parties run the caucuses, not caucusing supporters. That would be my one major concern.

Also, on the local Nevada news, it was reported that one caucus had a tie between Clinton and Obama, so they decided to cut cards to see who got the most delegates. That is just unacceptable, in my opinion. That did not happen in my caucus room.

Because my room was run well, I wouldn't venture to guess what happen in other places. However, my observations of some behaviors tell me that some people thought that they could get away with intimidating others.

[Emit]

52. Cutting the cards was the agreed upon plan for a tie breaker -- by Party rules

And they were very serious about it -- the deck could not be opened unless a tie occurred. A rep from each tied group would be elected to shuffle, cut and choose their cards, etc. We were actually trained on how to do this process.

I read somewhere that in Iowa, they used to draw straws.

Where was the caucus that you attended? I'm in NV. :hi:

[Kerrytravelers]

53. Seriously? That is ok? Wow! The local news reported it like it was a joke.

I was sent to observe the behaviors. It that had happened in my caucus, I would have called in and been told it was ok. My training was mainly in who is allowed to caucus and voter intimidation.

I was somewhere slightly north of Las Vegas.

I am in California, where we don't caucus. I had never seen one before and had no idea how the process worked. It was quite interesting to see.

:hi:

[Emit]

50. The caucus sites in NV were run by Democratic Party volunteers

The Party's handout, detailing the rules, etc. was the plan to follow.

I helped to chair our caucus, and we did not have these problems -- although there were many aggressive Hillary supporters -- some who arrived very early from Iowa. We had a couple of adamant Obama supporters, but the Hillary supporters seemed to have their own established infrastructure -- a sort of combined caucus agenda and get-out-the-vote agenda. They brought their own food, signage, etc. Checking people in line and at the door, I heard many people refer to this caucus as the "Hillary Caucus."

All Democratic Party volunteers can also volunteer for a candidate if they choose, though.

IMO, and other DUers may believe differently, the Party volunteer structure in Renois stronger and more organized than in Las Vegas. I may be wrong, but most of the complaints seem to be coming from Las Vegas and its outlying areas. In the past, as Democratic Party volunteers, we were encouraged to try to remain as impartial as possible during a primary. If the Party, who is responsible for the caucus, had some zealous partisans as volunteers, I can very definitely see how this could happen.

edit typo

[MediaBabe]

40. Thank you

I'm always glad to read something from someone who volunteered and gave time of themselves. Our way of life and our democracy couldn't exist without people like you so here is a small thank you from the left coast.

[Kerrytravelers]

51. Thank you. We like to do our part.

We can't give a ton of money, but we can give of our time. In 2004, we were part of the group from the Los Angeles area that went to Nevada every weekend to volunteer for Kerry. It was worth it. And I know we will do it again this time around, even if our guy isn't the nominee. To us, it is more important to get a Democrat in the White House than pout because our #1 choice isn't the nominee.

[Hutzpa]

59. Well, why did'nt you say something n/t

[City Lights]

34. I'm glad Obama is filing a formal complaint.

It's the right thing to do. Anyone who believes they've witnessed voter suppression, voting irregularities, voter intimidation, etc. should file a formal complaint. People might actually take the allegation seriously if a formal complaint is filed rather than just whining for the cameras.

The :crazy:ies here can't make up their minds whether to scream "sour grapes" or "Bill's gathering his info too." :rofl: I guess they can't decide whether this is a serious issue or not.

[OzarkDem]

37. Why weren't the Dem precinct captains running these caucuses?

By that I mean official Dem precinct captains? In our state, if you're an officer of the Party, you are supposed to be an independent manager of these things. I would have had training beforehand, strict procedures (including locking of doors once the caucus begins) and independent Dem volunteers working my precinct caucus, along with a couple of beefy sargents at arms.

[mckeown1128]

43. It is my understanding that the dem party training for the

caucuses was poor. First timers and such. I (think) I read that somewhere. I don't have a link sorry, I can't verify.

[Emit]

54. Yes -- in as many caucuses as we could

But, as I understand, there were more caucuses than precinct captains. Not enough volunteers is what it boils down to.

I can only speak for the Reno area, but we have been working since '04 on a serious infrastructure of volunteers -- including Leadership training programs, etc. I've been told that our teams were much more organized, on the whole, than in the south -- that's just rumor, mind you. But, apparently we had some glitches in Reno, too. One person told me after the caucuses that several caucus temp-chairs who had volunteered and been trained didn't even show or pick up their packages.

This was out first early caucus for a Presidential race. People I know with the Party worked their asses off to try to make this a success.

[OzarkDem]

57. I'm sure its difficult in a GOP stronghold

hard to recruit enough registered Dems, especially after the Bewsh years.

[Emit]

58. We have slightly more registered Dems now, I think, than Repubs

at least in my area. It's been massive registration, as I understand it. It's just hard finding people who will do it. We have a problem with voter apathy.

[NobleCynic]

67. Speaking as a site coordinator and permanent chair

the six precincts I oversaw and the precinct I personally chaired all went smoothly on caucus day. There were no problems like any of the ones I saw listed in my precincts. Had anyone been as bad as some of the claims in that brief, I would have called the police to remove, or even arrest, the disruptors. In short, the temporary chairs should have been managing these meetings better, but it was the first time for most at a caucus, much less leading one.

[mckeown1128]

44. self kick...

Update: now Hillary has released a very similar looking list of complaints.

[hayu_lol]

48. We have had several threads from eyewitness volunteers at the Nev. caucus...

many times, according to them, the precinct head did not show up or showed up late.

I would think that the Nevada Dem. Party would be responsible for allowing the mayhem to occur by any of the candidates volunteers.

We know volunteers frequently attempt to overdo their oversight.

Looks like immediates challenges for all the rest of the primaries coming up.

Don't think you can blame this on Hillary or Obama or Edwards or even the Kucinich people.

[cooolandrew]

47. OMG America you cant go on like this every vote must coutn or it's not democracy it's monarchy.

[pathansen]

55. I've heard Clinton complain about similar illegal tactics used against her

[tammywammy]

56. Then she should file a formal complaint like Obama did

All wrong doing should be investigated.

[mondo joe]

62. Her campaign did. Both immediately and in follow up.

Hey Tammy. :hi:

[Andromeda]

63. They might not be challenging the results.

But they are trying to smear Hillary Clinton with the implications. Anybody can file a complaint. I used to work in law enforcement and filing a complaint meant nothing without the evidence to back up the claim.

Same goes for Obamamaniacs. Go ahead and whine all you want but a whine does not a criminal act make.

[MethuenProgressive]

68. What a fucking cry baby Obama's turned out to be.