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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:01 PM
Original message
Obama and Edwards supporters: a political strategy consideration question
What's going on? Is it within the scope of consideration Obama and Edwards have had a Tacit Agreement between the two of them since the inception of this campaign? I have no horse in this race, but I have been an engaged observer since the campaign started, hoping to identify a Democratic candidate to whom I can commit. Now that a few contests have been waged, I am asking myself if these two candidates have cooperated from its inception with the common goal of helping each other battle the Establishment Candidate, one supported by the conservative element of the Democratic party, the Democratic Leadership Conference. This question is based entirely on gut; thus no links are available to support it.

I have always been fascinated by the strategic element of political campaigns, so that is why I focus on questions such as this and invite conversation on it.

Suppose Obama and Edwards did at some point make a Tacit Agreement at the inception of this campaign. That agreement was prompted by the recognition by both parties that neither Obama nor Edwards acting alone had a snowball's chance in Hades to prevail against the Clinton machine and the power of the Democratic elite to facilitate the DLC candidate. The only possibility of collaborative cooperation that would enhance each's chances to survive and perhaps prevail over the Establishment Candidate would involve lending a political assist, a leg-up, to enhance the odds of both candidacies whenever possible. That political cooperation would have to be based on trust, confidentiality and reciprocity.

We saw this play out earlier when Edward and Obama appeared to cooperate in a debate in which Hillary was the apparent target of both. It was perceived by female voters in New Hampshire to have been a political gang banging by the guys on the defenseless woman. That perception and the voters' reaction, unfortunately for Obama, resulted in an unexpected Hillary win in New Hampshire, which required some tweaking of the Tacit Agreement. One tweaking prompted the idea that perhaps Edwards should unexpectedly in areas where it would not ricochet as electoral backfires, throw a couple of punches at Obama so that he, Edwards, appeared from time to time to strike both at Obama and Hillary. Just a political camouflage to stifle any suspicions of cooperation.

What would be the favorable outcome of such a Tacit Agreement, should it inure to the benefit of both Edwards and Obama? Obama, the candidate with presumably the greatest chance of racking up higher numbers against Hillary, might trump Hillary in close areas. The helpful hand of John Edwards would pull votes from Hillary in those areas. But what would be the Edwards payback? Obama would hit Hillary hard, very, very hard, in areas which Edwards numbers might rise even higher. Obama might lose a few points, but he would do this where he could afford to lose those points and still prevail. The loss of those few points would be compensated by the fact Edwards might place second, knocking their common opponent down to an unflattering third. South Carolina, for instance, comes to mind.

When the dust cleared, what might we see in its aftermath? A single primary remaining, the State of Florida, a state in which the candidates were committed not to campaign because that State moved its primary up to a date unacceptable to the DNC. No momentum at risk there. But the salient view staring voters in the face would be a damaged Established Candidate with diminished chances of sewing up the nomination on February 5th, a Primary Opponent with a-nearly tied record of wins against that candidate and tremendously improved national odds, and a Secondary Challenger with an unexpected 15% command of delegates which puts him in a position of Kingmaker at the convention. That negotiating ability might possibly propel the Secondary Challenger into the Vice Presidential Chair in 2009.

And that's one theoretical way two challengers could tacitly cooperate in an agreement of mutual political reciprocity in a way that allowed both to mount an incredibly successful campaign against the Establishment.

Is this theory a "fairy tale" (excuse me) or a possibility which merits some rumination? The "conventional wisdom" (excuse me again) decries the bad judgment of Obama in reacting to Bill Clinton's jabs while campaigning in South Carolina. Some say it is the reaction of a novice. But perhaps not, perhaps it is a strategy predetermined by two collaborating candidates for mutual benefit. I say neither Obama and Edwards are dumb candidates. I believe they are both smarter than all of the Talking Heads combined. They are quite capable, if any two people can, of cooperating in a way the voting public and the professional political pundits might not see in a Tacit Agreement which might ultimately choke the Establishment Candidate. They are just that smart. And Bill and Hillary Clinton, utilizing the techniques of past political Kingmakers in days-gone-by, such as Lee Atwater and his protege Karl Rove, did not have their eyes quite wide open to the innovative punches that might possibly be thrown in the Now. They might not have seen it coming.

It's just too hard to swallow that Obama and Edwards are just winging their way through an extremely difficult political quest such as this without a plan. I think there's a possibility this might be the plan. And if that part about Hillary not seeing this coming is an underestimation, perhaps she did and that is exactly why she turned the Big Dog totally loose.... If it's going to be two against one, let's even up the odds ...

I ask you - what's going on?
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think Johnny's in the least bit interested in
taking the second chair again.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Didn't work out for him the last time. So yes, I bet you are right there.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Thank you so much - I really have been thinking about this
pretty hard this afternoon. I really wanted to ask the question here at DU without getting flamed. At least one person, you, are allowing for the possibility the theory might have some merit.

I love sane political strategy discussions. Could we possibly have one here or is that too much to hope for???

Sam
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I like John Edwards
I am hoping if he does not come in number one, he does not disappear from the political scene. If you are an Edwards supporter, I hope you do not find that offensive.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You are being very polite.
There is nothing offensive about that.
:hi:
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Well I know Edwards supporters are very sensitive at this time
and the last thing I want to do is to hurt them. I think Edwards is a fine candidate, I love Elizabeth, and I wish them well.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I'd like to see him as AG, if not President. n/t
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I posted that exact sentiment about two weeks ago!
I think he would be the perfect anti-Gonzales. I can see him now in that role!

But I don't pretend to speak for the Edwards supporters, and I am not sure how they would see that if they thought he had a chance to be the second chair, so to speak.

Do you support Edwards?

Sam
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yep. I've been an Edwards supporter for months now.
And I just don't think he'd choose the second slot this time around. It's just a feeling, so I could be wrong.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. So would you say for purposes of strategy he would not
cooperate with Obama, just shoot for the moon, so to speak, and hope for the best? He is an attorney, and a very good one at that, and attorneys always strategize a plan. Looks like you are going with the sense he will go for the gold, and I need no "friends" in this quest, right?
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. great comments Sam
Thanks, and I too would like to see more sane political analysis discussions.

You know, Obama and Edwards may be working together but without an overt or formal agreement. There may be a convergence between their strategies that is mutually beneficial even though they never discussed it.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Thank you Two Americas
I am loving my newly-found relationship with the Edwards camp, and I truly appreciate their comments. My problem is I have liked too many of the Democratic candidates: Obama, Edwards, Biden and Dodd, especially. The Edwards supporters, overall, are such a great, classy group of people, and are a wonderful reflection on him.

It sounds like from your comments you generally agree with my premise, though not specifically as to the formality of the arrangement. It will be very, very interesting to see how this ends up. I hope for nothing but the best for two great candidates: Obama and Edwards. I hope they both end up in the future Democratic White House, or close to it, as a result of a 2008 win.

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. principles and ideals
Principles and ideals are where our loyalty should be, not personalities, and we shouldn't forget that politics in a representative democracy is a two-way street. We should expect - demand - that polticians get on our program; that is to say listen to and respond to the needs of the people. Too many people approach politics as though we were expected to respond to the demands and needs of the candidates; as though our loyalty to the candidates were more important than the candidates' loyalty to the people.

Edwards is speaking for the left behind, the forgotten - for the other America. So long as he is, he has my support. Not out of loyalty to him, but rather out of loyalty to the millions who have been left out and left behind and who are struggling and suffering.

Yes, I generally agree with your premise in your excellent OP, and I don't know one way or the other with certainty as to the formality of the arrangement.

I think the truth of the matter is that none of us have all of the answers, although you would never know that by reading many of the posts here. Your post is truly a breath of fresh air, and very much appreciated.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
38. They could have agreed to team up to best Clinton in the short term with the idea in mind
that, with her out of the picture, or at least out of striking range, they could then go neck and neck -- gentleman's agreement of best man wins? :shrug:

I tend to agree with Mythsaje in that I don't get the impression that Edwards is interested in VP this time around.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Sounds plausible - so you think he's just interested in
going for the gold and thinks it's doable?

Are you watching this forum? I can't believe how quickly his numbers are climbing.

Sam
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
41. i do not believe for one moment John Edwards would make a deal with Obama..
John is not dealing with anyone..he is in this for the long haul..on his own..

unlike Obama who has made deals with others in the past to get ahead..i do not believe John is dealing anything with anyone..he is in this to become president.

end of story.

fly
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. hey flyarm are you still in SC
thanks for your rebuttal. How are things going? Great to hear from you.

Sam
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. things seem to be trending towards Edwards..what i am seeing is many people here
were so impressed with Edwards in the debate..and it seems every door i knock on watched the debate..even all the repubs..and i will say the comments are similar dems and repubs..they were all super impressed with Edwards.

And i will say that crosses all the people here and all economics.

and the disgust for the media is being yelled from the roof tops by all sides..i can not believe my own ears sometimes ..but it is coming out of almost every home i knock on their doors ..people ARE DAMN ANGRY JOHN HAS BEEN TREATED AS HE HAS.. and they are disgusted the last two days at how Obama and Hillary are behaving..

People here ar very aware of how important this election is!..just as they were in iowa when i was there..

people are paying attention and almost everyone i have talked to watched the debate, and all agree , John won it hands down...

many people today i talked with are rethinking how they thought they were going to vote.

well i am tired ..and have a long day ahead tommorrow..canvassing.

This is very rewarding..if you get a chance in your area..volunteer..

it is incredible getting to TALK TO SO MANY AMERICANS YOU MAY NEVER HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH BEFORE..

and it warms your heart...

fly..volunteering for John Edwards..

Hi Sam!!:hi: ..yep still in SC!! ..till election day is over!!
night ...
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. LIVE FROM SC: FLYARM--I can't thank you enough for this update
I was flying high earlier when I read a poll that said he had shot up to 27% in SC; now there's a poll which lists him at 19 percent and Hillary up to 30%. Obviously, they can't both be accurate. This election will drive me crazy in its unpredictability and disparities in polls. Which do you think is correct?

I do think one thing the Edwards camp has been exactly correct about is this: John Edwards would have been doing much, much better prior to SC had he been given his proportionately fair share of media coverage as to what others received. I do think he won the debate but that coupled with his increased media coverage has greatly increased his numbers. I hope he has a great success in SC; from what you say he is finally getting his "just desserts" in recognition by the voters you have encountered.

Please keep us posted as you can as to what you see. We can't always trust other sources of information but obviously we trust a DU'er. Great work you are doing; keep it up and stay safe.

Sam
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I agree with that.
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. he wont take the vp spot again. he has said so publicly.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hi, Samantha...
I don't have an opinion regarding what you propose here. I believe anything is possible, and some sort of agreement as you suggest wouldn't surprise me.

I, too, find the potential strategies intriguing but can't wrap my brain around what may be occurring as yet.

I mainly just wanted to tell you that, yes, hopefully we can have sane, civil discussions still at DU. And, as an Edwards supporter, you certainly didn't say anything offensive whatsoever.

I appreciate the thoughtful, respectful nature of your post very much.

:hi:
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Thank you so much, and good luck to your candidate
But I am betting your guy has A Plan, and I am just trying to figure out what that is. You Edwards supporters should cough up some theories, come on now .... !!!
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. The way I see it, they never decided to collaborate. Edwards just agreed with Obama and HE, unlike
Obama, was very aggressive and seemed mean-spirited. Unfortunately, it DID appear to be a "pile on" but it wasn't. Every time it's 2 men against 1 woman it looks like a pile on, but I never heard it called that when both Hillary and Edwards agreed with each other and went after Obama.

I think Edwards staying in the race DOES help Obama, and I think if he DOES make it to the end, he WILL be king-maker and maybe Obama would give him a position in his cabinet, but not offer him VP. He wouldn't add enough to the ticket. Obama would need someone else as VP with more experience in foreign affairs who was also against the war from the beginning.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. You make a very good point but leave the strategy discussion
a little short. Your very good point is the VP discussion; yes, Obama would need someone with foreign affairs expertise. That is exactly why Clinton in 1992, criticized for his lack of foreign affairs exposure, chose Al Gore to be his second. That was one of Gore's known areas of expertise.

But political debts end up with political rewards if the strategy succeeds. I think there is a possibility that Obama and Edwards can, and have, backed each other up to tackle a very formidable front runner. I don't think either would face this contest without a strategy because they are both simply too smart for that. I am just trying to discern, with the help of DU'ers, what that strategy is.

Thank you for your response.

Sam
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanks for your response...
I really don't think there IS a strategy except for Edwards to try to lump himself in with Obama since he knows America wants change. The result of that LOOKS like he's intentionally in cahoots with Obama, but I really don't think that's the case. Especially since it was reported Hillary went into Edwards' green room after the last debate for 20 minutes. If the end result is Obama winning, he may offer him a position in his cabinet, but that's it IMO.
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. Obama and Edwards are not collaborating, per se, however
however, it was in both of their interest to go after Hillary, because she was the top runner. Both of them had the same political survival need to slow down her momentum. Your enemy's enemy is your friend.

I don't know if you noticed, but once Obama started gaining more speed, Edwards started being more critical of him during the debates, speeches, etc. This is because Obama came closer to being the same level of threat to gain the nomination as Hillary, so Edwards needed to pay more attention to him too.

They do have respect for each other, and abstain from the strong attacks that Hillary and Obama have been exchanging. However, they are not working together, they both want to win it.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thanks for your input, and to answer your question
Yes, I did notice when Edwards started to take a couple of punches at Obama, but they were not lethal. That's when the political camouflage thing hit. He had to appear to hit both.

Do you think Edwards truly thinks he has a shot to truly win the top spot? If so, what states will he win in, if not South Carolina? He often refers to SC as his home state, and I thought he was suggesting he would be forth his strongest showing there. Just my assumption.

Sam
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I think he has a chance
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 10:47 PM by Levgreee
If he gets a sizable number. It is quite likely that the selection will go into the summer at the convention, if no candidate gets 2000 delegates. Then, if he was even at 1000-1200 to the other candidates 1600-1800 or whatever, if both/either of the top 2 candidates imploded he could get up to 2000.

Even if his odds of reaching 2000 at the convention are low, having delegates means having influence. I'm not sure exactly in what ways candidates could benefit from that influence, but I assume there are benefits.

As for the political camouflage, you are right, that is at least one of the reasons he might have done it, to not seem like they were ganging up on Hillary. But there are often several reasons/benefits for a politician to make a political move. There was the benefit of camoflauge, and weakening Obama(WHILE staying positive enough towards Obama that Obama supports or people on the fence who liked Obama would see Edwards in a friendly light).
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. All excellent points
Thanks for your input. It's always educational to know what others are thinking.

Sam
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Welcome to DU!
I'm not sure what's gone on behind the scenes, but I know all three of them want to win it, distinctly and separately from whoever else is going for it, too.

There WAS recently a story about how, after one of the more recent Dem debates, Clinton and Edwards were seen heading into a closed-door discussion with each other. I do not know what that means, what they discussed, or what. After 20 minutes inside, as I think I recall, she was seen leaving his green room backstage. It wouldn't surprise me if there were substantial brokering going on at this very moment, and it wouldn't be the first time we've seen the two-against-one effect. Heck, every playground in the country has witnessed at least 22-million of those!

It's not beyond the realm of possibility. And it does make sense. But at the moment, I don't think Edwards would be offering himself up as a sacrificial lamb so that the other guy can off both their main competition and hit the finish line first. I just don't. Now, on the other hand, if Edwards tanks in South Carolina, he might reassess his battle plans - to a delegate hunt so he can be "The Decider" at the convention. At that point, assuming it gets to that point, both Obama and Clinton would need him.

I think he'd be terrific, myself. I have no dog in this hunt yet - still uncommitted, although I did get my dander up over how not just Obama and Edwards but seemingly everything else in the cosmos AND the media piled on Clinton. Couldn't help it. It brought out a fierce "Sense of the Sisterhood" in me. I've not committed to anybody, though. As far as Obama goes, I think he'd be great, too - a real breath of fresh air, and I keep going back to this feeling, about him, of "America's Face to the World" - his being a perfect one - maybe the best one - in terms of rehabilitation and healing of our battered reputation in the world. But whether it winds up being Hillary or Barack, hey, we're still winners in terms of "the first _____ president." EITHER WAY we win. First black president, first woman president. EITHER WAY, we will have given hope to the disenfranchised, that one among us in the "outside looking in" club finally broke the ultimate glass ceiling and got inside. Either way, we'll make history, and if it's one of the two of them, I hope the winner has the good sense to name Edwards as AG. We need someone like him to rehabilitate the Justice Department after that Beelzebub friend of bush, AND the prissy little holier-than-thou bedroom busybody who came before him. And I agree that he probably would be reluctant to accept another vice presidential slot. From the "been there, done that" department - probably wouldn't interest him this time.

We STILL have an embarrassment of riches on the Democratic side. The other guys have only a richness of embarrassment.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
42. What a heck of a thoughtful response
Overall it's a gem; but when I came to the part about Edwards being THE DECIDER it just broke me up. Edwards to Inside-the-Beltway: Not an Insider but Just a New Decider riding into Town. Priceless.

The truly interesting remark you made is the one about seeing him in the role of AG. I posted that a couple of weeks ago, saying he was the perfect anti-Gonzales. Can't you truly see that? Shades of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. sitting in the Attorney General's office once again, how much better could it get than that?

You are just so optimistic about all of the top candidates, your response has to be meaningful to all the DU'ers posting on this thread. Thank you so much for your participation, calimary.

Sam
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
47. Welcome to DU!
Definitely, they both want to win it outright. They all do.

However, I would much rather see the below-the-belt hits and dirty pool directed at the REALLY deserving: whichever republi-CON wants to be the new dubya. It troubles me that much of what we see happening on our side is little more, in the long run, than our guys doing the bad guys' campaign commercial advance work for them.

If I were of rovian mind (and sometimes, dammit, I AM!), I'd be making lots of notes about who said what, and collect that file footage to use in my candidate's campaign commercials after the convention. If it's Hillary, I'd have ALL the Obama AND Edwards soundbites ready, and same thing if it's Obama or Edwards - I'd let Clinton (either one, or both) pile on 'em for me. Hell, the bad guys are probably doing it already. I mean, both Clinton and Obama have handed the republi-CONS LOTS of oppositional research. Why on earth should we be lending THEM a hand, and making their work easier?????
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. Check out dragonkeep's thread - is this a coincidence?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4184268

Look at those numbers! This would be a devastating showing for Hillary Clinton - third place. Obama gave up 4 points for engaging; Hillary gave up 12?

Do you guys really think this is happenstance? In a state where Obama had such a strong lead, loosing 4 does not hurt his first-place standing. And I don't think he would mind the sacrifice if it helped Edwards move into second, making Hillary a very disappointing third.
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Infinite Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
21. I've wondered that. n/t
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Check the other threads on this forum tonight
The more I read them, the more weight I am giving to this theory.

Thanks for responding.

Sam
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Infinite Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Can you reference those other threads with links in reply to this message? n/t
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Check out this one
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 11:09 PM by Samantha
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4186526

and this is from calteacherguy's thread:

Oh yeah, and for all you wonderful Edwards supporters, he's up 7% from last week in this poll and she's down 7%. Must be the irresistable charisma off Bill Clinton, or perhaps the debate. Cheers!
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Infinite Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
48. Thanks. n/t
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
28. One more rec gets this to Greatest...
Kick!
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Thank you calimary
So great to see you here! I couldn't ask for a final recommendation from a greater DU'er (except for possibly Elizabeth Edwards!);-)

Sam
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
46. Oh my! I was gonna ask "did we do it?" But I went up to the top and
saw that we did indeed! :toast:

Thank you, whoever contributed the 6th. This is a worthwhile thread, if for no other reason than its being so civil.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
31. I sense something going on between Obama and Edwards, but I can't quite pin it down
Working a strategy to defeat the Clinton Machine had crossed my mind -- but then you have to factor in the fact that both Edwards and Obama want the win and not necessarily seconds, so to speak. :shrug:

Anyway, interesting post. I'll have to think on it more.

This was an interesting observation from another DUer, patrice, last night that sort of relates:


I thought his question about Obama's 100 Present votes was pretty smart.

Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 05:12 AM by patrice

Does anyone REALLY think a trial lawyer would ask a question like that without some idea of what the answer was going to be?

Q. What kind of attorney doesn't do enough oppo research to know how the Illinois Senate uses the "present vote" to allow senators to express their technical objections to a bill without being forced to either support it or kill it (just as Obama said)? A. A poor attorney and that ain't John Edwards.

He asked that question to let Obama respond to the Clinton Machine while at the same time counting coup on him (and I do mean counting coup in the same manner as some Native American tribes used to do it - a kind of pro forma striking, just to show that you can do more if you wish). It was a polite way to use what was going on between the other two, not only to his own advantage and without getting dirty doing it, but also to Obama's advantage against HC, but I don't think you'll ever see any Obama supporters recognizing what JE did for him with that question.

P.S. I'm married to an attorney. Questions are never just questions.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4178793&mesg_id=4178892
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Totally interesting point and so razor sharp
I have worked around high-powered Washington attorneys for 25 years. And a question is just never a question. Astute observation. Inaccurate to say no Obama supporter would notice Edwards' support in asking that question though because I noticed and I have not joined the Obama camp. (I do like him though)

Sam
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. I can't speak for the author
but I think she was meaning that the Obama supporters may be so adamant or biased in their support of Obama -- and so disliking of Edwards (for lack of better terms) -- that they might fail to admit that Edwards would do Obama a favor -- or something to that effect. :shrug:
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. Oh, you might be correct, but I thought when I read it
it was intended as a compliment to the subtlety of Edwards presentation. Regardless, he was artfully subtle.

Sam
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. As I said on another thread....
good lawyers don't ask questions they don't already have the answer to.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
34. Doesn't Sound Like John Edwards To Me... I Seriously Doubt It...
Seems to me if this was happening MSM would be "hinting" "spinning" "speculating" or much more to help Edwards out. And until just recently, they've pretty much panned him.

Just doesn't feel right to me.

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