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Question? How is John Edwards proposing to "fight" Corporations?

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:14 AM
Original message
Question? How is John Edwards proposing to "fight" Corporations?
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 04:15 AM by FrenchieCat
What will he do? What's his game plan if he were to get into the White House?

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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. He's got an eighty page PDF file detailing his plans.
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 04:33 AM by Mythsaje
If you want to know, read the damn thing.


On edit: I'll even supply the link.

http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/plan-to-build-one-america.pdf
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. You know Frenchie probably won't see your thread, because she chooses to ignore
some Edwards supporters:shrug:


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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Oh, I'm not on Frenchie's ignore list.
I already know as much.

I've just gotten to the point that I won't argue with her directly anymore. If she wants to know, she can go look for herself.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I always thought I debated.......
using facts and things. :shrug:

Ps. I only put on Ignore the folks that are truly disgustingly repulsive and juvenile. There are only a handful.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I don't know...I just get the feeling you're not listening.
You're certainly not the worst among the Obama supporters. But it's aggravating when people simply dismiss our concerns and our perceptions as if they're meaningless and of no import whatsoever, or accuse us of lying, or being brainwashed by the corporate media--as if that's even possible, since I don't WATCH any television news program at all, except, very rarely, the weather on the local news.

I take exception to the idea that "bi-partisanship" and such will solve all our problems, when most of our problems stem directly from the screwed up ideology many of the people on the other side of the aisle will hold onto until their dying breath. If the last seven years have taught us anything, it's that they don't WANT to negotiate with us. They want to DESTROY us.

This has been my problem with Obama the whole time. He's got a fresh-faced, "new" approach to things that I just don't believe has any chance to actually work. Abstractions are well and good, but they don't actually TELL anyone what you believe in and what you're willing to fight for. Sometimes you HAVE to draw a line in the sand--not in front of you as a dare to your opposition, but behind yourself to mark the point you will not back across.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Read the labor policies on his site. Promoting labor is a huge first step
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 04:18 AM by jpgray
Since turnabout is fair play, how will Obama pass the most progressive parts of his platform while remaining bipartisan? The GOP will fight him tooth and nail on some of his planks. So what happens then? Bipartisanship and compromise of our values or a fight?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Obama says that he will televise policy meetings on C-Span........
Get our feedback, and then use the Bully Pulpit to put pressure on legislators. The art of politics is the art of the possible....and the art of persuation.

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. that is interesting
I heard Edwards talking about the power of the bully pulpit 4 years ago, and I never hear anyone else ever refer to it - until now.

Is Obama talking about "two Americas" yet?

If Edwards is such an awful candidate, he sure does get imitiated a lot.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. To be fair most presidential candidates promise to make miraculous use of the bully pulpit
I don't think Edwards has a trademark on it. :D
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. The ones who've been most successful in recent years
have been the Republicans...

I wonder why that is.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. The bully pulpit is not original to Edwards......
Bully Pulpit
The term "bully pulpit" stems from President Theodore Roosevelt's reference to the White House as a "bully pulpit," meaning a terrific platform from which to persuasively advocate an agenda. Roosevelt often used the word "bully" as an adjective meaning superb/wonderful. The Bully Pulpit features news, reasoned discourse, opinion and some humor.

http://therogersinstitute.blogspot.com/


if you hadn't heard.

and politicians reciting a litany of what ails us is not new.

Telling a good sob story to connect is an old trick...also not original to Edwards.

But you can take it as a compliment to Edwards if you wish.


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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. We're aware of all that.
It's been a while since a President actually used the bully pulpit for something good. Many of Edwards's domestic policy ideas actually hearken back to Teddy--who understood that sometimes you HAVE to tell the corporations "no, you can't do that. We won't let you."

And when was the last time you heard a politician tell us that we were being screwed by corporate greed, and that the middle class needed protection, and that elimination of poverty was a worthwhile goal.

It's been a while. A damn long while, when you get right down to it. Reagan told us all that greed was good, and what was good for corporate America was good for all of us. But it wasn't. People have been having that supply-side shit shoved down our throats for generations now, and it sure as HELL hasn't made America any better.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. Greed is certainly not good.
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 06:47 AM by FrenchieCat
I've just never had the vibe required to be an Edwards supporter. I initially saw something in him, there is no denying (he certainly has a nice face, presidential enough....although the blinking does bother me); and he certainly has a compeling life story (in particular the death of his son, which was like the 2nd story I read about him and a story which reduced me to tears)......but unfortunately, I kept digging, and the more I learned, the less I liked. I actually looked at him very closely prior to deciding on another candidate back in 2003. I was very deliberate about my decision at the time. I was so upset with our government. Yes, I was one of the 10 percenters against Bush the day after 9/11. Nothing Edwards has said or done since has made me want to join to fight for him. Call me skeptical, but my vibe meter detects something that I am not comfortable with in John Edwards.

But look, more power to you with your passion for him. I won't begrudge your choice....and passion is certainly important for those of us who deeply care about seeing good government come to be.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. more than that
What Edwards is talking about is fighting for the rest of us - the 90% who are being left behind - instead of fighting for corporations. He recognizes that there will be opposition, and promises us a fight. What precise shape that fight takes doesn't concern me - so long as we do have a fighter.

That includes enforcement of trade laws, breaking up of vertical monopolies in agriculture, works and jobs programs to help displaced workers, supporting the right to organize, raising the minimum wage, among other things he has talked about.

But governing is not a matter of "game plans." It is a matter of deciding whose interests you represent and making a commitment to fighting for them. It is a matter of representing the public, not dictating to them, not managing affairs, and it is a matter of inspiring and empowering people

What we lack in politicians is any clarity as to whose interest they actually represent, not a lack of the best plan - whatever that means. Governing is dynamic, it isn't a CEO position in a corporation where the executive decrees orders to execute plans. We have had about enough of plans and agendas, anyway, haven't we?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. I believe that Obama has more of the skills required to actually get it done.....
Cause Last I saw John Edwards in the Senate, he certainly wasn't fighting for me.

And he wasn't fighting for me When he co-sponsored that war that has cost trillions, which is why our economy is in the shape that it is in.

And he wasn't fighting for me when he didn't bother to read the NIE while sitting in the Intelligence Committee.

He wasn't fighting for me when he voted Nay on the Levin Amendment, and nay on the Biden-Lugar amendments, while I marched.

And he wasn't fighting for me when he voted for the bankruptcy bill, twice.

and he wasn't fighting for me when he voted on the China Trade bill.

And he wasn't fighting for me when he voted yeah to the Patriot Act.

And he wasn't fighting for me when he voted yes on "No child left behind".

and he wasn't fighting for me when he insisted that both he and Kerry should continue to stand behind their IWR vote during election 2004.

and he wasn't fighting for me when he stayed silent about the Iowa election fraud (even if some rumor that he was whispering something somewhere).

and he wasn't fighting for me, just because he apologized after three years of steadfastly standing by his wrong vote.

And he wasn't fighting for me when he was earned $450,000 dollars at Fortress in a few short months while working part time via telephone either.

And he wasn't fighting for me when he invested his 16.5 million dollars into Hedgefund investments that outsource jobs.

And he wasn't fighting for me when he again sabre rattled allthough 2006 and 2007 about Iran at APAIC and Herlinzer Conference.

and he didn't fight for me when he opt to handicap himself by choosing to take matching funds, after he had initially said he would not. He chose not to touch his personal fortune, while he said he was fighting for me.

So why should I believe that he'll fight for me when he again has the power to do so.

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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. The same way he's been doing it his whole working life
By confronting them directly and not currying favor with them.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. His whole life?
So what happened for those 6 years in the senate. Who was he "confronting"?
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. He was representing his STATE
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 05:51 AM by melody
He was not merely there representing his own opinions but those of the people in his state. Senators aren't mini-
potentates who can stand against and for things whenever they wish to ... and I would say that in defense of Obama and Clinton also.
They represent the *people who sent them there*. It wasn't all John's call most of the time. Have you ever read the backwork on
any senate vote? It's very eye-opening. The ONLY Democratic Senator I've ever faulted for a senate vote was Joe Biden and then only minimally.

And beyond which fact, I didn't say his whole life (despite your reading it there), I said his whole *working* life ... working as a trial attorney, in other words. Service in the Senate isn't "employment", it's public service.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. We have a different view of John Edwards.....
I don't see him as altruistic as you do.

It's just one of those things. :shrug:

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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. And I have a similar view of Obama to yours of Edwards
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 06:22 AM by melody
But better Obama than Clinton, imo.

I'd also add that I'd view John in an altruistic light if only for his driving off the market a pool drain
cover responsible for the disemboweling of a three year old girl. Yes, he made money doing it ... and he'd
have made three times the money if he'd have represented corporations instead of the victims.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. I'm know that John has done good things......
But I don't understand the rationale that he would have been paid more working for the Corporation. It is those injured that seek the big money, not the other way around. He didn't work for corporation, but they are certainly the ones that paid him.

I just find that many of his various votes, and in particular his co-sponsorship of the war bill, and his steadfast support of his vote for 3 long years does not to give me a clear reason to help put him into the highest office in the land.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Corporate law (my friend's brother practices it) makes a LOT more money
Edwards won a $25 million dollar settlement from the pool drain company. He only received a portion of that and had no way of knowing he'd receive anything at all. The corporate attorney representing that corporation alone was not only on retainer for them, but for several others as well. I'm not an attorney ... I'm just a humble writer ... but that's my limited understanding of it.

He has also fought over many years for many families from whom he's never collected a dime. Two families for which he fought sold their homes to follow him on the trail and support his efforts.

His various votes were not all his choosing, his co-sponsorship of the war bill was based on lies and falsehoods (and he was still representing his state and not merely himself), and I'd rather have a President who makes firm decisions that are mistakes and admits them than one who disingenuously dodges, which is my opinion of Obama's recent voting record.

Still, better Obama than Clinton.
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
8. Consider this Frenchie
John Edwards knows how the GAME is played. From being a corporate lawyer, to a lawyer in private practice fighting corporations, and being a US senator where he saw exactly HOW the GAME is PLAYED. And he was encourage to PLAY it as a member of the DLC.

He knows HOW to FIGHT them and WIN.





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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. JE's history as a trial lawyer
is not analogous to fighting and winning as a President. He's not up against an opposing team as President; he's up against a myriad of competing interests who alternatively side with one another and fight against one another.
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I realize he will be up against "The Beast"
I think he would be effective and getting his agenda passed through congress, however, no matter who is the president, we need more seats in congress to get anything done.

My point is he worked for corporations he witnessed how they defended themselves against "us" from those frivolous lawsuits.

He went into private practice suing corporations. He already knew HOW to fight them from being an insider.

He went to become a US senator and saw how corporations really benefit from writing their own laws. He saw how the money was flowing around DC. He became a member of the DLC. He KNOWS HOW they operate.


So, NOW he has the knowledge once again to fight them and WIN.

I admire someone who learns from their mistakes and wants to correct them, he has my RESPECT.






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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. One could admire that, but I don't reward someone for making a bunch of mistakes....
Why would I reward that. Kind of like the CEOs driving their company into a ditch. Why they should get a promotion for that? Even if they say they "learned".
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. I'm not exactly rewarding him for that, especially when the DLC had him in their clasp
I think Edwards would right his wrongs. I'm almost certain there is a lot of lobbying by the DLC for their members to vote a certain way. At first I was a little appalled that Edwards belonged to the DLC, but then I started learning about his background, and that's when it hit me that John has received valuable lessons on his journey into HOW the system works.


So, Frenchie tell me have you only made one mistake in your life?.?.?

I know I've made my fair share of them. Some I learned from to never make them again. Some I've made several times, but continue to learn from them in hopes of never repeating them again.

I sincerely believe John learned HOW thing operate and HE DESERVES the opportunity to correct them.






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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. I'm just not getting a feel that when John Edwards can make a difference
that doesn't benefit him directly that he will. That's my take, although it is obvious that you have a different take. I think of him as a relatively good looking guy (except for that blinking and the weak wrist mannerism) who's life career has been centered on persuading people that he is telling the truth when talks. In his 6 years in the senate, he was a moderate centrist who voted with the DLC, most if not all of the time.

It is not in my nature to believe in rewarding someone for making mistakes and later learning from them. His learning curve may have been beneficial to him in many ways, but not so for me. His votes have helped have an impact on my life and on the life of others. I cannot glorify a list of mistakes or gloss over them as though they never happened; they did.

Certainly, I can admire the fact that he can admit to mistakes, but that doesn't give me reason to want to follow where he is leading. For me, personally, John Edwards has done the "too little too late" more than is acceptable to me. I can't be led by one who has demonstrated to me that my judgment has been better than his, time and time again. There are just certain important issues that a politician has got to have gotten right from the onset and that is not what Edward's record in public life reveals.

And so, the fact that he has done quite a bit of changing after-the-fact doesn't give me confidence that his judgment will be useful when I really need it. In other words, I don't trust his deliberative process. Being Persuasive is a good quality, but leading in the right direction is what distinguish a well intended but wrong man from a great leader. The presidency is an important job, and I want someone with the natural instincts to get it right. I don't believe that Edwards, based on what he has demonstrated to me possesses those qualities.

Read his speech and then tell me why I would want to support a man who was 180 degrees from where I stood when I was desperately looking for real leadership in the right Direction? Saying sorry 3 years later is just simply not enough to give me the kind of confidence that I would need to entrust onto him regarding something as important as the future of my children and this world.



Delivered on October 7, 2002 in the Halls of power-
This week, the U.S. Senate will have an historic debate on the most difficult decision a country ever makes: whether to send American soldiers into harm's way to defend our nation. The President will address these issues in his speech tonight.

My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. I am a co-sponsor of the bipartisan resolution we're currently considering.

Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave threat to America and our allies -- including our vital ally, Israel.
snip

After 11 years of watching Saddam play shell games with his weapons programs, there is no reason to believe he has any real intention to disarm.

At the end of the day, there must be no question that America and our allies are willing to use force to eliminate the threat of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction once and for all. And I believe if America leads, the world will join us.

Eliminating Iraq's destructive capacity is only part one of our responsibility, however.

We must make a genuine commitment to help build a democratic Iraq after the fall of Saddam. And let's be clear: a genuine commitment means a real commitment of time, resources, and yes, leadership. Democracy will not spring up by itself or overnight in a multi-ethnic, complicated, society that has suffered under one repressive regime after another for generations. The Iraqi people deserve and need our help to rebuild their lives and to create a prosperous, thriving, open society. All Iraqis — including Sunnis, Shia and Kurds — deserve to be represented.

This is not just a moral imperative. It is a security imperative. It is in America's national interest to help build an Iraq at peace with itself and its neighbors, because a democratic, tolerant and accountable Iraq will be a peaceful regional partner. And such an Iraq could serve as a model for the entire Arab world.
snip
We must also remember why disarming Saddam is critical to American security – because halting the spread of weapons of mass destruction, and ensuring they don't fall into the wrong hands, including terrorist hands, is critical to American security. This is a problem much bigger than Iraq.
snip
Even as we lead the world to eliminate the Iraqi weapons threat in particular and global proliferation in general, we must maintain our resolve in the long-term fight against terrorist groups like al-Qaeda.

I reject the notion that this is an either-or choice. Our national security requires us to do both, and we are up to the challenge. We fought World War II on four continents simultaneously. America worked to rebuild Germany and Japan at the same time, under the Marshall Plan. We waged the Cold War in every corner of the globe, and we won. --John Edwards
http://www.cfr.org/publication/5441/americas_role_in_the_world.html?breadcrumb=%2Fbios%2F9641%2Fjohn_edwards%3Fgroupby%3D3%26hide%3D1%26id%3D9641%26filter%3D2002

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