Just a talk with a co-worker

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

Talked with one of my techs today before he went out on his work run. This is an unscientific poll, of course, but I just wanted to share what he said. Tony usually doesn't talk politics, and the fact that he initiated this conversation I found interesting. We're in Arkansas, and he's a native, so keep that in mind. I'm merely reporting on what he said, not to inflame anyone supporting any candidate, but to let you all know where a "typical man on the street" who doesn't go on the Internet and who gets his information from tv, radio, and newspapers.

1. The tax refund from Bush is a joke. Much better to give the money to unemployed folks whose benefits have run out. He's also under the impression that we won't have to pay the money back.

2. He had money in his pocket when Bill Clinton was president. But he doesn't know if Mrs. Clinton would do the same things Mr. Clinton did. "It's not time for a woman to be president".

3. "Bararak" (his pronunciation) will be for black people. He'd better be sure to help the poor white people like Bill Clinton helped the poor black people. But again the phrase "It's not time for a black to be president", coupled with a chilling "I think he'll be killed in office, and we'll have a holiday for him like we do Martin Luther King."

4. John Edwards is his first pick for President. Edwards is a rich boy, but he earned it himself. He knows how a working man feels. And he's a man. "We need a man to run the country. Them foreign countries will listen to a man more than a woman. Well, they might listen to Bararak, 'cause he's black and all, too."

5. His second choice for President is John McCain. "If Edwards isn't the Democrat's choice, I'll go with McCain. He's honest."

6. (Edited to add): He says Guiliani is a joke, Huckabee is a "preacher" which means "watch out for your wallet", but Romney might not be too bad, either.

Since my candidate, Kucinich, dropped out of the race, I am undecided (though I'll vote for Kooch in the primary if his name is still on the ballot). I don't have a dog in this fight. But the conversation I had with Tony did raise concerns with me--concerns that need to be addressed, I feel. We can't afford to dismiss the Tonys of this world--because they will go vote.

[sandnsea]

1. This is race and gender baiting

I am so sick of these posts. Yet when you confront that it's being done, that people are basically saying vote for Edwards to appease the racists, then that's the post that gets deleted instead of this divisive shit.

[peacetalksforall]

3. So are you saying that this poster is making it up? I often read the

testimonials and I'm only following the political battle lines infrequently - are you saying that someone should not share a story if it includes something about ond of the Dem candidates? 'A little lost here.

[sandnsea]

10. It's news that there are bigots?

Why the hell would anybody post that shit here except to try to use it to scare people into voting for the white guy? It's disgusting.

[havocmom]

14. No it is NOT news but it is a reality we still have to face

Facing that reality is not always an attempt to 'scare people into voting for the white guy'. It IS admitting that America still has much work to do about educating people that different is not automatically bad.

[sandnsea]

17. Because the OP was all about "educating people"

And didn't end with.... whooo, scary... "they will go vote".

[Pathwalker]

20. ayeshahaqqiqa is not race or gender baitng, or trying to

scare anyone into voting for the white guy. No, it's not news that there are bigots out there - they're a dime a dozen everywhere, even in Michigan, but to just outright condemn the poster whenever you don't like the message isn't helpful either. People like her co-worker are the people we will be trying to convince to vote for the Democratic candidate, and rather than just hurling insults at each other, the wiser course of action would be to find ways to convince them to vote for our candidate.

[sandnsea]

22. I see these posts almost every day

In one form or other, somebody posts that America isn't ready for a woman or an African American. I'm sick of it. It's race and gender baiting.

[Pathwalker]

27. Then, you clearly don't know the poster, and are just lumping

her in with others, which is unfair. She didn't say America wasn't ready for a woman or an African-American - her male co-worker did. I've had people say the same thing to me, and I've had to defend my position that they are wrong and I'm not very diplomatic about it either. Why you insist on insulting this poster is a mystery to me, she is a wonderful person, and attacking the messenger doesn't help your case. Do you have ANY ideas on how to convince those people why they should feel differently, and can you do so without attacking a poster some of us highly respect?

[sandnsea]

29. Wonderful people do stupid things

And posting these dire warnings about voting for a woman or minority is stupid shit.

[Pathwalker]

30. Can you post anything that isn't an insult?

Or putting things into a post that was not even there? I see you have no ideas on helping to convince voters to vote for our eventual nominee, either.

[sandnsea]

36. Uh yeah, stop race and gender baiting

How's that for an idea??

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

41. I apologize for writing my post in such a way that angered you

that was NOT my intent. My intent is in coming up with ways to counteract what people like this say. Where I live in Arkansas, there are many like him. Funny thing is, he wants to vote for a Democrat, like he has all his life. I think that if I come up with viable arguments I can convince him to vote for either Obama or Clinton--I just need some ideas. That is why I was posting this.

Here's some notions I've come up with, after reading the posts on this thread and mulling it over in my mind:

1. He says that women aren't respected on the world stage. I could list all the women leaders we've had, including Bhuto of Pakistan, who was PM in a nation in the area where Tony says women don't get respect. What I need, hopefully from you or others, are incidents where Mrs. Clinton took part in international conferences, etc, and her voice was heard. This could add to her credibility with this guy, who already has a favorable opinion of the Clinton Adminstration.

2. He fears assassination for Obama. This may be based upon the very real fact that we have KKKers around here (who also don't like Italian/Native Americans like Tony, btw--had a dust up with them over a service we did-but that's another story). I think the way to get around that is to remind him that the President will always have protection, and that what is important is what the President can get done with members of Congress and world leaders. I'd like to know more about Obama's time in the Illinois General Assembly, how he showed leadership in his legislation, and also how that legislation helped everyone.

3. He likes McCain. I know a few of McCain's minuses, the biggest for me being his remark about being in Iraq 100 years. I also know he has no plans for health care. We have no health care here at work, and Tony is getting older and is concerned about this.

As for Tony being a bigot--he's stood up to the local KKK, and believes in full equality for homosexuals when it comes to marriage, etc. He has several lesbian friends of various ethnicities, and is a single father. Yeah, he may have some outmoded ideas, but he is someone you can persuade to change his mind. I'd like to change his--and keep his vote in the D column.

[sandnsea]

45. If Arkansans don't know Hillary's record

then they weren't paying attention and never wanted to know. You want to work everybody into a tizz over your concern about bigots, knock yourself out. I'm not buying.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

50. Sorry to bother you once again

but I need information on Mrs. Clinton's record in the Senate, when she moved from Arkansas. I'm looking for ways to show what she has done independent of her husband. Do you have links to her Senate record, or could you please point me in the direction I should go to do research on this?

[wishlist]

70. My Repub dad lives in NY, credits her with helping keep his VA open

She earned the respect and votes of many upstate rural and small town Repubs in NY State because of her responsiveness to their needs. My dad, a WW11 Vet who regrets voting for Bush over Gore (believing the lies that Bush was a moderate and Gore flaky), was upset when Bush Admin had put his VA hospital on list to be shut down (before the Iraq war). Hillary and Chuck Schumer made sure his VA stayed open. My parents have mentioned several other issues where Hillary supported their interests. They are Repubs but voted for her twice for Senator and will vote for her for Pres if she is the nominee.

[Pathwalker]

47. Re1: Don't forget Thatcher, Golda Mier, Indhira Ghandi (talk

about a place where women don't get respect!) and Angela Merkel. Remind him that America is behind the curve of history and the rest of the world, and that we need to move into the 21st century.
2: Sadly, he isn't alone in that fear, but George Bush is the most reviled leader in the world, and no one's killed him yet. If Obama gets the nomination, it is my sincere hope that he picks a running mate that makes him bulletproof. Like Bush did with Cheney. The Secret Service has learned from past tragedies, and the protection they provide is much, much better.
3: I like your advice about McCain but would add that his age should be considered a factor; America doesn't need another leader with Alzheimer's. In today's world, I honestly think we need leaders who are young enough to withstand the rigors of the office, and McCain's age should be considered a factor.

Thank you for telling us more about Tony.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

48. Good points

I really appreciate you taking the time to give me more information and facts that I can use.

[tandot]

57. not to forget...German Chancellor Angela Merkel ...

Ireland: President Mary McAleese, elected 1997

New Zealand: Prime Minister Helen Clark, elected 1999

Finland: President Tarja Halonen, elected 2000

The Philippines: President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, succeeded 2001, elected 2004

Mozambique: Prime Minister Luisa Diogo, appointed 2004

Germany: Chancellor Angela Merkel, elected 2005

Liberia: President Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf, elected 2006

Chile: President Michelle Bachelet, elected 2006

Switzerland: President Micheline Calmy-Rey, appointed 2007

India: President Pratibha Patil, elected 2007

more:

http://www.filibustercartoons.com/charts_rest_female-leaders.php

[Pathwalker]

62. Wow! We really are behind the curve, aren't we?

I did include Angela Merkel, but ALL those others...wow!
Thank you so much for that list!
:hi:
NB

[havocmom]

23. What Notorious Bohemian said!

ayeshahaqqiqa has never been one to try to scare anyone about anything. This valued DUer is foremost in efforts to enlighten and empower. She is also brave enough to face with ugly realities while she maintains hope for a more humane world.

Berating the messenger because of frustration over the message is getting more and more common on DU and is a decidedly UNenlightened course of action.

[sandnsea]

24. Most of the thread is doing the same thing

I'm not making a statement about one particular poster, it happens all the time and it's wrong.

[havocmom]

25. Reporting on and dealing with reality is WRONG? WTF!

Not reporting on and dealing with reality on a national level is what got us bushco and the mess we are in now.

Reality is not wrong. It just is. Reporting on reality is not wrong, it is the only hope of changing it.

I don't like the fact that we can't swing a cat without hitting a bigot in America. But, not mentioning the fact is not the way to change REALITY.

[sandnsea]

28. Fearmongering about a bunch of bigots is wrong

They're here, we know it, oh well. I'm sick of the Edwards supporters, and yes it is generally Edwards supporters, warning us about the reality of bigots... and then getting on their high horse when they get called on their race and gender baiting. That IS what it is. I'm sick of it.

[verges]

61. Bigotry comes from ignorance.

Bigotry comes from ignorance. The cure for ignorance is educating the ignorant. You seem to feel that just ignoring the bigots is a better solution than educating them? The problem with that approach is that bigots get to vote too! The OP was asking how to go about educating. That is to be applauded. By not co-opting and educating the ignorant, we lose a LARGE bloc of votes.

[havocmom]

68. Is DU a bunch of bigots?

Wow. Why do you waste so much time on us? :rofl:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

31. thank you

this is my point. I'm tired of all the infighting here, and the refusal to take time to come up with plans to try and counteract these sorts of attitudes. If the poster who is upset took time to check my posting record, he would find that I don't write posts to inflame, but rather posts to try and inform.

[Pathwalker]

34. I realize that, but some posters just want to attack

the message whenever they don't like the message. This forum has become a viper pit, with a lot of sniping at each other, when we could be trying to come up with an effective way of dealing with people like your co-worker.
I just felt compelled to defend you. :hi: :hug:

[sandnsea]

37. Usually you do, this isn't one of those times n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

42. please note my apology to you

I am sorry you misinterpreted my post. Inflaming was not my intent at all. Please, if you have any ideas of what can be said to people, write them down.

[madmom]

26. you don't have to click on the links!

[beachmom]

4. Sorry to say, but I listened to a pop radio station here in Atlanta,

and the subject was having the first woman or black president, and the callers sounded JUST LIKE this person above. Women were calling in and saying a "woman president wouldn't be respected", and African Americans were calling in and saying "the world is still so racist, a black president wouldn't be respected". Now mind you, this is Georgia (although metro Atlanta), but I was so depressed after hearing these unbelievably ignorant people calling in, with no understanding of history or what the world thinks. I mean, we are the most DISRESPECTED right now with a white male at the helm!

This kind of thinking is out there, and it isn't just said privately. It was said on a pop radio station that plays a variety of music, therefore attracting a variety of listeners in the largest city in the southeast.

[sandnsea]

11. And that was surprising to you???

Obviously there are assholes in the world. When people bring it HERE, and tell us we should really think about it and maybe vote for the white guy instead - that's race and gender baiting and I'm sick of it. If Edwards has to appeal to the bigot vote to win, then we're a pretty pathetic party.

[beachmom]

13. Yes, it was surprising to me. Because I heard NOT ONE CALLER

say something disagreeing. The DJs had to do that.

I agree that nobody should vote for Edwards for this reason (so the conclusion of the OP was shall we say, unhelpful). But I also think that we need to know this. These weren't some rednecks down in south Georgia chatting in a bar. This was in a metro area with people calling into the radio station, knowing they would be heard. This was FM radio, and the station plays rock, pop, R & B, etc. I was frankly shocked. I guess my "worldly ways" have colored my glasses. I see Chancellor Merkel on the world stage and I see Obama speeches that transend all the petty politics we are used to, and I thought if people gave Hillary and Obama a chance, their arguments would melt away. They would see the people who they are, not their gender or race, and then make a decision.

[sandnsea]

15. They chose to put the callers through

So I wouldn't give a lot of credence to one program that decided to have bigot day. Regardless, I'm not surprised at all because I've heard this garbage all my life. I don't pay attention to the idiots. It annoys the hell out of me that anybody would.

[elixir]

38. I disagree, this post is geniune and brings up real concerns. I'm for HRC and I'm worried.

If the "co-worker" turns out to be right and John Edwards is the democratic nominee, I'm concerned that he will not be taken seriously because of his changed positions from those he held during his term.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

43. Thank you for understanding my point

I wish you had been in the office as Tony talked about Bill Clinton with a smile on his face. He genuinely misses Clinton and what he did for the nation. I think that, with a little persuasion, he could vote for Mrs. Clinton in the GE. I just need ideas!

And the fellow really isn't a bigot! He is in favor of full equality for homosexuals (he's straight, but has several lesbian friends), hates the KKK (they are prejudiced against him, too, for being Italian/Native American of dark skin), and is a hard working, honest, honorable man.

[laugle]

71. Tell him that

Clintons' would be a dynamic duo and Mrs. Clinton will be sending her husband as a roving ambassador around the world. He will help to repair our relation's and credibility with the world.

Bill was almost sucessful in finding a peaceful solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and with more time, he may finally do it, at least I'm hopeful.....

Hillary will be working on domestic issues, i.e., health care, education, saving social security, economy and other issues that effect all of us.

Bottom line is a very successful team!!

[MH1]

2. Yikes. #1 (first part) is promising, the rest - just YIKES.

[beachmom]

9. Mainstream thinking in the Deep South unfortunately.

Nobody wants to consider the possibility that we are fighting tooth and nail ... for the silver medal, due to extreme prejudices harbored by many people in this country. I still say we go ahead and nominate Hillary or Obama, but people need to understand the barriers that still remain.

[Tennessee Gal]

5. That is the way some people think.

They are not nearly as informed as we are.

We have to face that reality.

[havocmom]

6. I live in a Town Full of Tonys. That is pretty much what I hear from everyone here

Some have elaborated on their response to certain combinations of candidate in the general election:

Obama v any of the GOP slate: most I have heard say they will stay home

Hillary v any of the GOP slate: they will come out to vote against Clinton. They LOVE voting against a Clinton and will be enthusiastic.

Edwards v McCain: the people I have heard on this one are split

Edwars v any other GOP candidate: voting Edwards

Like you, not a scientific poll but what I hear in our small red town, where I hear just about everyone around.

[cali]

7. Yes, the Tony's of the world and other bigots can't be ignored

nor can we allow them to dictate to us. How very sad that you think we should do just that.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

39. I don't want them to dictate to us

I want to know how we can positively address their issues and concerns. I'm looking for ideas, here, especially if Edwards isn't the nominee. I think I saw a glimmer of a chance when he talked about Obama being able to work with foreign leaders. I was thinking I could tell him, the next time he's in the mood for a discussion, about the fact that Obama has lived in other countries, and has a broader view of how the world works, and how this could be helpful to us.

If we simply write off the Tonys of the world, and don't try to educate them on the candidates and issues, we could lose the election. I'm not saying to pander to bigots. I'm looking for ways to address issues that voters have. If the eventual nominee has the attitude that they must simply write off people as bigots, we are losing many potential voters.

I've worked with Tony for seven years. He's part Native American, part Italian, and he has been subject to discrimination himself due to his dark skin. He hates the local KKK and also hates the fundamentalist preachers (so much for the Southern stereotype). He WANTS to vote Democratic. This is what he's always done. I don't think it would take much to convince him that any of our candidates are viable. I just need ideas. I thought putting out a thread like this would help us brainstorm some ideas we could use.

I'm not interested in flaming any candidate. I'm interested in pragmatic ideas that can help our nominee.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

8. Just curious-- has "Tony" ever taken time off work to go vote?

I've always suspected guys like this are all mouth and no ballot.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

33. Yes, he does

I know because I have to schedule the time for him.

[1corona4u]

12. The question that keeps popping into MY mind is...

How do people say with conviction; "now is not the time for a woman president"?

How anyone can even say that is beyond me. I mean, men have always done such a FINE job of suppressing women, we have NO idea of how a woman president would be. None whatsoever.

It all goes back to keeping a woman in her place, nothing more. Men don't think women have the right, or the ability to be president. It's obvious to me.

It really is a man's world. And they've done such a fine job so far. NOT.

I say to the men; skootch on over, it's time for a woman to drive. Whether or not it's Hillary.

[BeyondGeography]

16. Another narrow-minded white guy

We've got 'em by the boatload.

[rurallib]

18. McCain honest?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[TooBigaTent]

19. Thank you for posting this. People (including DUers) need to know what is

in the (so-called) mind of the voters out in the real world.

I do not think you are spreading bigotry - you are trying to educate people that it still exists. Some seem to think that if we do not talk about it, it will disappear as a factor.

Two disappointments for me:

1) the "big-two" and their supporters are the main sources for the bigotted crap being spewed (and echoed in the media). We know that will come, but "our" candidates do not need to help it along.

2) I hear from other-wise reasonable(?) Democrats that McCain is not a bad choice. What are these people thinking? I get how some pukes and indies can believe that, but for a Democrat to even consider POW-boy is insane.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

40. Thank you for a thoughtful answer

I don't understand the enchantment over McCain either. I've looked a bit into his record--he's not for health care and he wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years--two points that need to be brought home with people.

[Bluestar]

63. Hi Ayesha!

I support all of your posting here, as I know you to be a person of integrity, honesty and good will.

Don't forget to remind Tony about when John McCain affixed his lips firmly to Bush's buttocks last year and supported everything Bush was doing about the war. McCain thinks we should have MORE troops and "finish the job". McCain had built a reputation of being a straight talker until last year sometime when it became obvious to me that he had made a deal with the devil (Bush)because he wants to be president so badly. Tell Tony if he wants to continue this illegal, immoral war he should vote for McCain.

As for his hesitancy to vote for a woman or an African-American, tell him we need new solutions to solve increasingly complex problems. We can draw those new solutions from our biggest strength--our diversity.

Keep on posting--I think this is the most honest, productive discussion I have seen here.

[redqueen]

21. Yeah... I work with a lot of idiots, too.

I don't share most of their dumbass ramblings here, though... cause people already know there's tons of dumbasses out there who vote.

If they choose to ignore the reality of that, reminding them that they exist won't do much good.

[jasmine621]

32. Touche! nt

[flpoljunkie]

35. Yes, but would like to know if Tony actually votes.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

44. Oh yes, he does

For one thing, I know where his polling place is, and he tells me when he's taking off his shift to go vote (I've worked with him 7 years). He votes in every election there is, even for school board and such. He's even told me when votes for such things are happening, as he knows I vote in every election, too.

[flpoljunkie]

46. Thanks for clearing that up.

[goodgd_yall]

49. I've been having some talks with a friend

She insists Hillary won't win the GE. I tell her Obama chances are as good as Hillary's, and, if Edwards were the nominee, he'd have the same chance. She's looking at Hillary's "negatives." I insist all three have strong negatives (and I don't care what polls are showing). I think each of them is a little iffy on winning the GE. And race and gender are part of the reason, from my perspective. There are still plenty of voters out there that think like your colleague. And Edwards I think scares enough people with his strong language toward corporations to lose votes. I sometimes think that it was a mistake not to give Biden or Dodd more support.

But we shall see. I find it hard to read where the country really is. And even if I were to have an accurate picture there, the question is, who is going to cast ballots and who will sit this one out.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

51. Very astute observation

You are correct in that all our major candidates have negatives. I want to be ready with arguments in their favor if someone starts talking politics again.

Do you think it would be helpful to post a thread discussing each candidate's perceived "negatives" and what we can do to counteract each of them?

[goodgd_yall]

52. Do you mean

like talking points for people like your co-worker? Yes, that may be helpful. Although, what I'm worried about are ingrained prejudices that no amount of argument and discussion will change. But then again, sometimes people surprise us and actually give thought to something that is said and it does change their thinking.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

54. Yep, my co-workers have surprised me

I work with two fellows who have lived in this area of northwest Arkansas all their lives. So you immediately think "fundamentalist, racist, sexist". Wrong! Neither goes to church, both consider the fundamentalists, especially the preachers, con-men, one has mixed race nieces, both hate the local KKK and have actually shown their disdain for them, both believe women should work and have the same rights as men, and both believe in equal rights for gays and lesbians.

[Silent3]

53. My elistist opinion: people are stupid

Democracy only works to the extent that it does because broad public opinion helps to prevent things from going TOO FAR out of control -- it's a coarse, crude safety valve that kicks in (and not always reliably so, especially between elections) to block political leaders from going way outside the bounds of serving the good of the governed. There are many reasons real-world democracies are far from perfect, but we shouldn't ignore that fact that one of those reasons, beyond corruption, beyond the press, beyond electoral mechanics, is that "the people" generally have no fucking clue about what they really want, how to achieve what they want, or if what they want makes any sense or would really be beneficial to them.

Anyone who talks about "the wisdom of the people" is full of shit, and most likely to be someone sucking up to "the people" to get elected. For all the sniping going on between the Clinton and Obama camps about honesty, I'll say this -- any candidate (and this is 99.99% of candidates in any democracy for any office) has already crossed the line into playing games of deception when they pretend to respect the opinions of the voters. Those opinions are for the most part stupid and shallow and don't deserve much respect. I don't think politicians, especially those who really have good intentions and want to do good in this world, can necessarily be blamed for turning a bit cynical, because they must know that the only way to win most of the time is to play the stupid games that the voters, with their illogical, contradictory, and ill-informed opinions, force them to play in order to sway voter opinion on the voters' horrendous terms.

This doesn't mean I don't believe in democracy -- I do. But my belief in democracy is a bit cynical, like what Winston Churchill said about it: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

55. An interesting take

and the flip side of it is folks who say "all politicians are crooks-they all lie to some extent." Perhaps the electorate and the politicians really understand each other after all.

[Silent3]

56. The problem is group punishment

Smart people who follow the issues and the candidates are a minority. While it's easy to say "we" deserve what we deserve (I'm not saying you're saying that -- it's just something commonly said about democracy), the people who know better suffer along with those who don't.

Of course, it's not like smart and informed people all agree on what's best to do, or don't often fall pray to their own irrationality even when they've what it takes to know better, but at least if we had a smarter electorate we'd have a better shot at elections that functioned on a higher playing field.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

59. To have a smarter electorate

(which I am all for) we have to make people believe that their input will make a difference. As long as they think that only money talks, they will remain cynical. Frankly, cynicism is one of the big reasons I think voter turnout in this country is so low.

[cgrindley]

58. Your co-worker is uneducated and ill-informed

not to mention racist and sexist. The Tony's of this world, by the way, are pretty much too dumb to deserve to vote. It's a shame that he's the way he is.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

60. He is a high school graduate

and only reads the papers and listens/watches MSM news. Sadly, what that means any more is a dumb voter. I'm trying to educate him.

[B Calm]

64. I had a co worker today say he wouldn't vote for a women because of PMS

[Pathwalker]

65. Does he know the meaning of "post-menopausal"?

Or was he referring to his own PMS?

[B Calm]

66. That was my thought too, but I quit defending Hillary about a week ago..

[Dumak]

67. I'm not convinced with his sincerity

He seems to be portraying himself as an left-leaning independent, with a narrative that seems aimed at steering blue-collar independents towards McCain (given that Edwards seems unlikely to win nomination, and he knows it.)

You also have to wonder, why these people feel compelled to vote, and yet are satisfied to learn only enough about each candidate to sum them up in one or two simple-minded sentences. It's like a self-proclaimed Christian who doesn't read the bible. It just doesn't make sense.

[awaysidetraveler]

69. All the racists I know vote as republicans. Most of America isn't the south, either.

You'll be relieved to know that most of the rest of America is ready for something different.

Don't be afraid.

[DIKB]

72. Your HWY 7 Neighbor here

will be voting for Edwards, b/c I know so many others here who think the same as your friend.