Here's an excellent point by Andrew Sullivan...

[zanne]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/01/where-has-bill.html

With all his righteous anger, he could have actually been helping us all out during these past eight miserable years. Instead, he saved it all for the last minute to help Hillary.

[Azathoth]

1. Don't particularly like Sullivan, but he nails this one n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. ~good question --

Where the hell has this red-faced, angry, combative Bill Clinton been for the last eight years?

Did Bill get angry and demand that wrongs be righted after the Florida miscount? After Bush v. Gore? After Bush, Cheney, and Rice blew off his concerns about terrorism for 8 months? After Bush's unpreparedness for, inadequate and incomplete response to, and unconscionable exploitation of 9/11? After the unfair media and GOP attacks on Al Gore, Howard Dean, and John Kerry? After Katrina? Plame? The US Attorneys? The "lost" emails? The countless other mistakes and malfeasances of the Bush administration?

Sorry, Bill -- by remaining silent in the face of so many grave catastrophes, you forfeited your right to attack Obama...
But Bush didn't really challenge the Clintons' power, did he? In fact, it was vital for the Clintons that Kerry be defeated in 2004 in order for the Restoration Project to continue. If you want to find a red-faced Democrat who actually cares about the country, the Constitution and the world, Al Gore has been your man for the last eight years. The Clintons only care about themselves. True now as it has always been.

[suston96]

3. Sorry, Andrew Sullivan is full of crap.

Google Bill Clinton and look at all his fund raising and global efforts for tsunami and Katrina and. oh - AIDS victims. How can Andrew Sullivan forget about that AIDS effort by Clinton?


What a load by Sullivan. I am amazed at such ignorant and thoughtless remarks.

[joeybee12]

7. Amen! It was Gore who should have gotten angry over Florida...

...and Bill advised him to do so, but Gore blew it.

[suston96]

14. Former Presidents often bite their tongues about the antics of their immediate successors....

...It's a great American presidential tradition. Doesn't anybody study history?

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. "Tradition" died the second the Republicans started poking around

in Bill Clinton's private life to exploit it to create a perjury trap. The Dems just have been incredibly slow to figure that out.

Dems are the true conservatives. Conservative about relying on antiquated rules of engagement that the other side won't think twice about breaking because they know they can and get little punishment for it. There isn't even any social shame in it. So the Democrats keep making asinine decisions based on tradition, such as Gore did when he conceded "for the good of the country" and Kerry showed that the Dems don't have the will to break with it under any circumstance.

In our Congress, Democrats are the conservatives and Republicans are liberal, when it comes to protocol.

[joeybee12]

33. Yup, they want to hold onto the make nice way of politics...

...which has never really existed.

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. They're like the mommy in a dysfunctional family who wants the yelling in

the house to subside because she figures that keeping the kids quiet will prevent the daddy from releasing his anger on them, and because the neighbors next door won't catch on that the daddy is abusive and beating the kids.

[zanne]

32. And that's why we weren't angry about Gore and Kerry not fighting for us?

At least, be honest with yourself. DU History tells us a different story.

[Nederland]

38. In that wonderful tradition...

...has any former President ever campaigned for someone the way Bill is campaigning for Hillary?

Tradition got thrown out the window a while back, so that is no excuse for Bill...

[avaistheone1]

50. Ahhh - Gore took it all the way to the Supreme Court. What more could he have done?

[Atman]

10. All due respect, but hurrican relief and tsunami relief did nothing to save our democracy.

They may have helped people in need, but in a twisted sort of way, those actions helped the Clintons once again, by allowing them to showcase their wonderfulness and benevolence. But when George Bush was burning our constitution, Bill Clinton couldn't even be bothered to piss on him to put the fire out.

.

[flpoljunkie]

11. Bill saved his political capital when he should have spoken up in 2004, before the election.

From Douglas Brinkley...

Whom does the biographer think his subject will pick as a running mate? Not Hillary Rodham Clinton. Audio Link: http://www.depauw.edu/av/crain/brinkley-hillary.mp3

"There's really two different Democratic parties right now: there's the Clintons and Terry McAuliffe and the DNC and then there's the Kerry upstarts. John Kerry had one of the great advantages in life by being considered to get the nomination in December. He watched every Democrat in the country flee from him, and the Clintons really stick the knife in his back a bunch of times, so he's able to really see who was loyal to him and who wasn't. That's a very useful thing in life."

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

[zanne]

31. When Bill hugged Bush, HE was full of crap. nt

[zanne]

39. HERE'S THE ORIGINAL SOURCE FROM DAILY KOS.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/23/165159/196/485/441912

Get a grip and start reading. Daily Kos is the source of the so-called "ignorant and thoughtless remarks."

[zanne]

47. I guess nobody here really wants the truth. Just as I thought. nt

[stray cat]

4. Clinton has been great in many ways but he almost never spoke against Bush

ie it wasn't appropriate for an ex-president to interfere with the actions and goals of a current president.

[robbedvoter]

9. Sullivan , OTOH, could have spoken against Bush, but sniffing Clenis is what

he does best

[redqueen]

26. "sniffing Clenis"

!

:rofl:

:loveya:

[wyldwolf]

5. how would Sullivan have had Clinton 'help us out?'

Would Sullivan have had Clinton help him get a flat tax passed? Privatize social security? Increase the military budget? End social programs? Defeat universal health care? Overturn Roe v. Wade?

These are all positions Sullivan has. So who is the 'us' Sullivan would have wanted Clinton to help?

And, given those positions, why has he endorsed Obama?

[Maribelle]

6. lol Sullivan is a neoconservative that helped get us the corrupt Baby Bush

That he bashes Clinton for the same time frame that his widdle baby has raped this nation blind merely shows off how truly pathetic this Sullivan is.

[beachmom]

22. Well, come on, he endorsed Kerry in '04 and has admitted he was dead wrong on Iraq.

I agree that one should be cautious buying everything Sully says, but he has shown humility for his mistakes in the last couple of years. He also has been excellent documenting the torture.

[Maribelle]

28. Sullivan claims it was the "torture" that turned him against Bush. Sullivan lacks good judgment.

I can see adding torture to the list of untoward things the corrupt bush has done. But for someone as highly educated as Sullivan, who pushed the republican political agenda for as long and as hard as he did, who propped up the most hateful of the neoconservatives as he did, to base such a critical decision on that one issue is total bunk. I didn't believe him then. I don't believe him now.

He verbally attacked others for not promoting the views of Iraqis in exile on Iraq's nuclear capabilities - - the views which turned out to be total lies. Then, I called this intellectual rape by Sullivan.

I would not believe even one word from Sullivan, regardless.

[robbedvoter]

8. You lost me from the title. Still waiting for Rush to be "right" - he praises your guy

too! C'mon, guys! Don't lock poor Limpballs out of DU! All his crowd has been paraded here!

[ShortnFiery]

12. HRC can't even "help herself" by clinging on to a faithless husband and his DLC in order to glean

power. To HRC, POWER is GOD! :thumbsdown:

[durrrty libby]

13. When Bill Clinton left the WH he had to turn the keys over to bush

I can only imagine the outrage if Bill had been complaining all this time

Besides he's been busy raising billions for the ill and less fortunate people of the world

His website www.mycommitment.org

Sorry Andrew Sullivan is an ignorant nasty fool and dems are the same for giving him credence

[BenDavid]

15. Well gee, you all want WJC to be more presidential and by

going after obama you all get pissed because he's not being presidential or a statesman. Then you get pissed cause he did not as you perceive him not speaking out and often against bush......Damned if he do and damned if he don't.. just a lil' something to throw out there for a friday morning....

[MethuenProgressive]

16. "excellent point by Andrew Sullivan"? That'll be the day.

[Glorfindel]

17. Sorry, but "excellent" and "Andrew Sullivan" never belong together

He's dogshit. :puke:

[madmom]

18. I don't know what video these guys watched, but I did NOT see an angry, red faced Bill Clinton...

besides I don't know about republicans but with most decent human beings a man will become irate if some one "attacks" his wife, so isn't that called being human?

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. Actually, the link attributes the first paragraph to kos.

[jackson_dem]

20. Obamites posting pieces from Reagan speechwriters and Sullivan?

Can it be any more clear what Obama's "movement" is?

[beachmom]

23. Sully supports Obama. As in 100%. Are you suggesting we

turn away Independents and Republicans from considering voting for one of our Democrats?

Sully also has admitted that Obama is a liberal & will disagree with him on policy at times, but he likes his temperament and tone, as well as his character.

[jackson_dem]

29. Only Obamites would take Noonan's "advice" for the Democratic Party

[mondo joe]

35. You don't have to turn away anyone. But you can be mindful of the source.

[robbedvoter]

42. So does Rush Limbaugh. And the whole MSM. For now - don't get too used to it

here' how MSM has been covering candidates:


Obama: 47% positive, 16% negative.
Clinton: 27% positive, 38% negative.
McCain: 12% positive, 48% negative
Giuliani: 28% positive, 37% negative
JEDNE

Net numbers

Obama +31
Giuliani -9
Clinton -11
McCain -36

[Clintonite]

24. Please try not to EVER post a fucking link to andrew sullivan!!!

[zanne]

30. So says "Clintonite"! nt

I get emails from friends, just like the rest of you. I have friends who are interested in politics, like most of you. My friends are Obama supporters, like some of you. I'll post from Andrew Sullivan or anyone else I wish, Clintonite. (By the way, what username will you change to after the election?)

[Clintonite]

37. I will always use this username. I am sorry I do not like seeing

republican talking points here at D U. I am sorry I know it is a free country! If Hillary loses is will not change the fact that I support her! In fact it just proves that in 2012 she will run again because thin skined Obama will be toast.

[zanne]

43. But Hillary IS a Republican talking point! nt

She's so far to the right, we won't notice any difference if she becomes president!

[robbedvoter]

45. Welcome to DU! Glad you don't let the bullies get to you.

Some candidates supporters got a sense of entitlement based on all the wrong reasons.
:hi:

[calico1]

25. Andrew Sullivan never makes an

excellent point.

I wonder how soon before we start posting Limbaugh and O'Reilly opinions?

:eyes:

[THUNDER HANDS]

36. Andrew Sullivan is so far removed from Limbaugh and O'Reilly

it's not even funny. Sullivan hates both of them as much as anyone here. He thinks they're part of the problem with modern conservatism.

[jackson_dem]

52. An Obamite posted a Peggy Noonan WSJ op-ed just yesterday

And Obamites loved it.

[BenDavid]

27. andrew seems to write critical of hrc..could it be andrew is having

too many "brokeback mountain" moments....

[mondo joe]

34. LOL - another right winger source for DU.

:LOL:

[Pirate Smile]

40. People don't want to look at the substance of the argument so they just

attack the messenger.

That is fine but it doesn't answer any of the issues actually raised.

Al Gore has been sticking his neck out over and over again when Bill didn't - the Iraq War, wiretapping and spying on Americans, etc.

Bill was basically silent until now.

[elixir]

41. Bill Clinton was polite throughout the Bush years and worked behind the scenes on numerous efforts.

As other posters have mentioned more eloquently than I, BC has shown enormous committment to world issues w/out concern for his health. I believe he's done better work now than during his presidency, if that's possible.

I was a Gore supporter but he blew it, he didn't get mad. It's not Bill Clinton's responsiblity to make everyone plays nice.

[xchrom]

46. sullivan is a republican and -- and a legend in his own mind.

i'll take my reading and information from someone reliable thank you very much.

[applegrove]

48. Ex presidents have to walk a fine line. I think there would have been

a huge amount of criticism if Bill had spoken out during the Bush Presidency. It was enough that he periodically got interviewed and reminded us what a real President looks and talks like.

[PervezClinton]

49. Oh, Ms. Thang loves it when Andy gets his dizzy head into the game.

[Hart2008]

51. Uh, didn't Jimmy Carter win a Nobel Prize after speaking out against invading Iraq?

OSLO, Norway (CNN) -- Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter won the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize on Friday for what presenters cited as decades of work seeking peaceful solutions and promoting social and economic justice.

Carter, Democratic president from 1977 to 1981, has won praise for his tireless work as an ex-president in trying to bring peace to places from Haiti to North Korea.

Announcing the winner on Friday, the five-member Norwegian Nobel Committee praised Carter's decades of "untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development."

Now imagine what could have happened if we had two former Presidents speaking out against illegally invading a foreign nation that did nothing to us...


:think: