The Clinton's Florida Gambit is timed to set up a strawman

[Perky]

If Obama says no... or wait and see. She will claim he wants to disenfrancishe Floridians.

If he says yes. she loses the issuue but still gets the delgatates she wins on the basis of name recognition.

His best response is probably "that can be decided at the convention, but I urge all Floridians to make their votes count. In fact I think he should buy aittime in FLorida to do just that.

He would not be campaigning to say something like that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. You Miss The Point

Regardless of whether the delegates will be seated she has forced the press to discuss the Florida Democratic primary which she will win by fifteen, twenty percentage points or more...

A win in the fourth most populous state in the Union and the number one tourist destination in the entire world will be huge and give her tremendous momentum going into Super Tuesday...

Team Clinton is to campaigning what the New England Patriots are to professional football...

[ihelpu2see]

3. You mean cheaters! I get it now. Just like filming the Jets...nt

[Perky]

5. I don't think I miss the point at all.

That is clearly her intent. But she is also trying to make Obama look bad in the process.

.

[truebrit71]

6. You miss the over-riding point which is that she could win by 100 points...

...over the other non-represented candidates but the delegates still won't count...and whatever Joementum she gets from her republican playbook, will be negated by the fact that the MSM and the other candidates will continue to remind EVERYONE that those votes don't count...

In fact, she looks like an even bigger loser because she is trying a Rovian tactic, of saying one thing and doing another...(imagine that...a Clinton lying...:eyes:)

[iconocrastic]

14. The Patriots play by the rules

The Clintons make up their own as they go along.

[leftynyc]

25. The Patriots do not play by the rules

They were caught cheating against the Jets the very first game of the season.

[Blackhatjack]

33. Any other Coach caught authorizing this would have been suspended for at least a year...

... but because he is a coach who has won Superbowls in the past, they merely fined him and let him go on his merry way.

CHEATING is CHEATING --but it certainly looks like the punishment is different depending who you are.

Just like in this case, if Howard Dean does not come down hard on Hillary for this it will do damage to the Democratic Party in the future.

No action by Dean and next election cycle Primaries will occur 1.5 years in advance of the election by all kinds of states.

At some point you draw the line, and Hillary knows full well she crossed it --just like fans of the NFL know that the Patriots Coach got Special Treatment.

[leftynyc]

42. I really think she's just looking ahead to

November. If the candidates show such disdain about the democratic voters in FL, why would they turn out. With such an important state, it's important to show that SOMEONE cares about these voters.

If you want to attach nefarious motives to her, knock yourself out. But don't come crying when Florida democrats don't come out to vote.

And you're right, any other coach would have had the book thrown at them (and I used to be a Bellechick (sp?) fan - he was the best defensive coordinator the Giants ever had).

[NoFederales]

46. And it's probably not just an aberrant event: how long has it been going on?

The thing about the compulsion to cheat is that it doesn't just come on you suddenly, there's history behind it more than likely, and it only gets more sophistocated and ugly the longer it goes on.

Clintons spoiling the 2008 Election process, Patriot coaching staff spoiling the NFL season--who needs them?

Fuck every goddamned cheating one--and their worthless apologists--who believes in such exceptional treatment.

NoFederales

[iconocrastic]

47. Ok, they're cheats, same as the Clintons

I don't follow football, who cares.

The Clintons are cheaters, that's the point.

[truebrit71]

2. The FL delegates don't count now, and won't count at the convention...

...moot point...

If only one candidate is on the ballot in a particular state then that state was not had a proper election. There is NO WAY those delegates, or the ones from MI will EVER be counted...

Only republicans pull these kind of dirty tricks...or at least it USED to be just rethuglicans...

BOTH of the Clintons should be ashamed of themselves...

[leftynyc]

4. I believe all the candidates

(at least the top 3) all have their names on the ballot. Try again.

[Perky]

7. So what would you do with Michigan?

Since all names were not on the Ballot?

[leftynyc]

16. That's a stickier question.

I think it would require all the candidates agreeing to a position. The idea that voters in these states feel their vote matters to the candidates is an important one. It could mean everything in November.

[truebrit71]

9. Can you provide proof of that? I know that they weren't in MI....

...and those delegates won't count either...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. You Want Proof...Here's Your Proof

http://tbdem.blogspot.com/2008/01/hillsborough-county-democratic-sample.html

[truebrit71]

15. Thanks. Now remind me again, which candidate said they would abide by the DNC ruling and then didn't

...?

I think her last name begins with a "C"

Doesn't matter...the delegates won't count..

[rinsd]

17. When did the DNC rule that one should remove their name from the Michigan ballot?

[truebrit71]

23. The DNC rules that neither states would be able to seat their delegates...

...and all parties agreed to remoive their names...Hillary "forgot" to get it done in time so her name "accidentally" stayed on the ballot in MI...

Just like Bill "slipped" when he was smoking his cigar in the Oval Office...

The Clinton's don't "forget" or have anything happen "accidentally"...they are as shrewd and cunning as the other ruling family in the US...

[rinsd]

35. Geez you just make it up as you go along don't you.

"And all parties agreed to remoive their names"

Not true at all. Most candidates (except Gravel) signed a pledge to the 4 1st states respective Democratic parties agreeing not to campaign in FL or MI per DNC guidelines on campainging (they allow fundraisers). Biden and Richardson made a political decision to remove their names from the MI ballot in hopes of garnering extra attention in IA and NH. Edwards and Obama jumped on because they saw it as a way of diminishing a Clinton victory in a state they would not be allowed to campaign in.

"..Hillary "forgot" to get it done in time so her name "accidentally" stayed on the ballot in MI..."

No, both Hillary and the Dodd campaign (Dodd was the 1st to sign the 4 state pledge and urge others to join BTW) stated they thought removing their nakmes was unnecessary for the pledge. Kucinich attempted to have his name removed and had difficulty with the paperwork, therefore his name remianed. Gravel was also on the ballot but he is of course a non factor.

"We're honoring the pledge and we won't campaign or spend money in states that aren't in compliance with the DNC calendar,'' Clinton spokesman Jay Carson told The Associated Press. "We don't think it's necessary to remove ourselves from the ballot.''

Dodd's campaign issued this statement: "We are committed to the importance of Iowa and New Hampshire going first, and we signed the four-state pledge to hopefully prevail upon the DNC and the state parties to add clarity to that situation. However, it does not benefit any of us if we are the nominee to pull our name off the ballot and slight Michigan voters."

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/leaving_michigan_behind.html

[leftynyc]

27. Which DNC rule

did she break?

[leftynyc]

22. Found this - looks like

they had to stay on.

Can a presidential candidate remove their name from the ballot in Florida?
Florida Democratic Party Chairwoman Thurman, Senator Geller and Representative Gelber submitted to Florida’s Secretary of State the names of our Party’s presidential candidates for placement on the January 29, 2008 Democratic Presidential Preference Primary ballot. State law allows candidates who wish to withdraw from the Florida primary to do so by filing an affidavit stating that he or she is not a candidate for President of the United States of America. In other words: to get off the ballot in Florida, a candidate has to swear that he or she isn’t running for President.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. They Should Be Ashamed That They Want Every Vote To Count?

Whatever you say...

[Perky]

10. Again...is Michigan different than Florida?

[Fresh_Start]

13. yes because not all the candidates were on ballot in MI

but I believe they are all on the ballot in FL

[truebrit71]

19. Still won't matter. The delegates won't be counted...

..or do you not think that Obama and Edwards ALREADY have lawsuits ready to go should Hillary try and pull her Rovian stunt at the convention?

This scorched earth policy of hers is sooooooooooo detrimental to the Dems...both in the Primaries and the GE...

She is POISON to our chances...

[Fresh_Start]

32. sorry I didn't mean to say I approved of this

I was literally noting that Florida was substantially different due to the fact that unlike Michigan all the candidates were there

[truebrit71]

38. Okay..no worries...

:hi:

[truebrit71]

11. They should be ashamed that they are trying to execute an end-run around the DNC...

...you know...their supposed party...

They knew the rules going in, and they broke them because they think it might give them an advantage...the last time someone tried that here they were villified because they were republicans...but it's okay if a Dem named Clinton is doing it?

I don't think so...

[iconocrastic]

18. Ashamed? That concept is unknown to the Clintons

They regard shame as a sign of weakness.

[Skip Intro]

20. What rules did they break? Was it not Obama on FL cable stations recently?

Despite the pledge not to campaign in FL?

[Perky]

26. He Did not Campaign ion Florida He lauched ads that played Nationally.

[Skip Intro]

40. Including FL.

[rinsd]

45. And those ads are playing in FL.

Yes he had permission from the SC Dem party head but he is still the only campaign running TV ads in FL.

[truebrit71]

29. The ruling from the DNC that FL delegates would not count.

..but in a cynical attempt to end-run the process they campaign there ANYWAY, after saying they wouldn't, and will try and steal the nomination with pre-prepared lawsuits when they get to the convention.

Either way that woman makes the Democrats look bad in an election year, because it's all about HER afterall...:eyes:

[rinsd]

31. When did she campaign there?

She is calling for the delegates to be seated.

That was expected from whoever the nominee is eventually going to be.

[DJ13]

37. Was it not Obama on FL cable stations recently?

Does that matter when the delegates arent going to count?

Seriously, get over it.

[Skip Intro]

43. Thought he made a pledge or something.

Yeah, it matters when you say one thing and then do another.

The insinuation to which I was replying was that the Clinton camp had broken some rule. Despite repeated requests, no elaboration has been forthcoming.

I did think it relevant, tho, to point out that if any rules were broken re: FL, they were broken by Obama.


Get over it, eh? Charming.

[rinsd]

21. What rules were broken?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. You Should Be Ashamed You Want To Disenfranchise Your Fellow American Citizens...

~

[truebrit71]

28. Not really...those particular American citizens shouldn't have allowed themselves...

..into this position in the first place.

They were told what would happen if they moved the date. They moved the date anyway. Tough shit.

[rinsd]

30. So registered FL Democrats should be punished for the actions of their party leadership?

By not having their vote matter?

:shrug:

[truebrit71]

39. The Democrats should have fought harder. You know. Grown a spine.

Something that seems to be missing from the Democrats of the political species...

[rinsd]

41. So you're blaming the voters?

Do your candidate a favor and don't associate yourself to closely with him.

[truebrit71]

44. Yes I am. Didn't they make themselves heard? Apparently not because the Dem politicos just folded...

...as if they had no spines...

[wyldwolf]

34. you, yourself, just set up a strawman.

[suston96]

36. Yeah, voter disenfranchisement is a straw man......

The only voting rights that count are those of the people who vote for your candidate.

Got it!