What would you think if Russ said Al Gore's supporters were being fooled?

[redqueen]

He's come around on more issues than Edwards.

Maybe he'd trash Gore's supporters if Gore declares?



I would love to know what's up with Russ's insulting comments.

[geek tragedy]

1. John Edwards can't carry Al Gore's jock. n/t

[redqueen]

5. Was that supposed to be meaningful?

Or are you just practicing for later on the playground?

[jackson_dem]

9. Consider the source

[geek tragedy]

96. Point is Al Gore has a long record of accomplishments

and achievements in public service.

[Dhalgren]

11. Gore can't carry his own jock? What's up with that? Is Gore too good to carry his own underwear?

Jesus! He's a bit of the prima donna, isn't he? :rofl:

[bluethruandthru]

2. Russ has been disappointing lately. n/t

[Dhalgren]

3. It boils down to politics - even with Russ. It also comes down to

do you trust John Edwards? If you do, then fuck the nay-sayers. There will always be plenty of them. I don't even care if Edwards is pandering to the left - I love the idea that someone would!
Go Edwards! At this point, he will get my vote on Super-Duper-Extreme-Tuesday!

[redqueen]

10. I agree about trust...

but I'm shocked that people have such a double-standard, and refuse to see it.

[orleans]

139. crap! i blinked! WHAT COMMENTS? what did russ say? WHAT'D I MISS?

help

[DJ13]

4. I would love to know what's up with Russ's insulting comments.

It seems he has problems with Edwards voting record, then claiming "sorry" afterwards when its convienient.

Of those votes that Feingold has criticised Edwards about have you looked into which side Russ voted?

Maybe he's trying to make a point about our Congressional reps actually representing all of us instead of just the wealthy elites?

(Though, I will have to say that if thats his intent theres more than enough on Hillary's voting record to lambast her as well.)

[redqueen]

7. Gore has a much similar voting record... but has he even said "sorry"?

I guess if Gore throws his hat in, he knows what to expect from people like Russ.

[AlGore-08.com]

73. Umm... Gore left the Senate 6 years before Edwards entered the Senate

It's been 16 years since Gore's been in Congress. It's only been 4 years since Edwards has been in Congress. It's very difficult to compare their Senate voting records on anything more than a really, really vague level that involves a lot of subjectivity.

And - - hypothetically - - if Gore was running this year and somebody used one of Gore's positions from his time in Congress to claim Gore was a flip-flopper, it would be easier for Gore to make the case that he sincerely changed an opinion he held 16 - 32 years before than it is for Edwards to make a similar claim about an opinion he held 4 - 10 years ago.

[redqueen]

80. Gore flip flopped on abortion the same way Kucinich did.

I wish people knew more about these politicians... maybe then horseshit like Russ's wouldn't be so easy to peddle.

[Pastiche423]

140. Like you know about Senator Byrd?

[Samantha]

141. Gore did not flip-flop on abortion

He and Tipper ALWAYS thought decisions such as these properly belonged to a woman. He has openly discussed the fact that since he represented a red, conservative state he felt obligated to cast a vote that represented his constituency. Later on, he matured in his thinking and decided to vote the way he felt was the proper position on the issue. And he started speaking out on the issue and discussing why he made that decision.

[jackson_dem]

12. I looked at those votes. Ted Kennedy voted the same way as Edwards

On China (83-15), Patriot Act (98-1), No Child Left Behind (91-8). Wellstone voted for the last two as did Leahy. Flyspecking is BS. Feingold is being deceitful here by not providing the context. Is Ted Kennedy a fraud for voting for these things and then changing positions?

[redqueen]

14. I've lost so much respect for Russ over this.

Disappointing to say the least.

[Alexander]

6. He wouldn't. He said he'd be happy with Gore and Obama.

I would also be happy with either of them, and I feel the same way he does about Edwards.

[redqueen]

8. Very strange disconnect there. (nt)

[Alexander]

28. Take it up with Russ. He's the one who said it.

[redqueen]

29. No, I meant you...

you don't have a problem with Gore's "flip flops", but Edwards is just a big phony?

Oh wait... on edit... when you said you feel the same way... did you mean you wouldn't have a problem with Edwards? I thought you meant you agreed with Russ...

[jackson_dem]

31. Gore isn't running so he isn't an obstacle that needs to be swiftboated by Obamites

[Alexander]

61. Actually Gore was my 1st choice before Obama. Thanks for being ignorant!

[jackson_dem]

65. That makes your Obamite attacks on Edwards even more hilarious

[Alexander]

68. Why? Because I preferred the man who won the 2000 election?

Yeah, that's a riot. :eyes:

[jackson_dem]

74. A Gore supporter calling Edwards a flip flopper lol. You apparently don't know Al's record

[Alexander]

85. At least he didn't apologize for his entire elected career.

That's Romney-style flip-flopping right there.

[jackson_dem]

97. Neither did Edwards

[Alexander]

106. Sure. That's why he's saying he will end the war he co-sponsored.

Not to mention free trade and health care reform.

:eyes:

[jackson_dem]

113. He apoligized for four or five votes out of thousands

He has been consistent on trade, something anyone who knows his record would know of. Did any of you Obamite swift boaters do any research?

[Alexander]

120. Those "thousands" include votes remembering holidays and other such nonsense.

"He has been consistent on trade, something anyone who knows his record would know of."

He voted for the China agreement and steel tariffs and backed off on both. I guess by your own admission, you don't know his record!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[jackson_dem]

123. His overall record on trade is identical to Ted Kennedy's

The best champion of working folks in Congress. Who to side with? Ted Kennedy or an Obamite?

An Obamite attacking someone else on trade? Read his book. Look at his record. He is as big a free trader as the Clintons.

[Alexander]

64. Yeah, Gore did a "flip flop" on the war, the environment and health care...

Oh wait, that was Edwards.

"Oh wait... on edit... when you said you feel the same way... did you mean you wouldn't have a problem with Edwards?"

I prefer Edwards over Hillary, yes. Just like I prefer conversing with you over having teeth pulled. But not by much.

"I thought you meant you agreed with Russ..."

I do. He likes Gore and Obama, even if he's not endorsing anyone. I like Gore, Obama and Feingold a great deal and would be happy to see all of them in the next administration.

[redqueen]

67. Why are you getting so nasty with me?

Fuckin hell.

Gore's flipped on frickin Abortion, NAFTA, etc. *Huge* issues.

[Alexander]

69. Actually you are completely wrong.

Gore never flipped on NAFTA. He hasn't spoken out against it, which is one area where I strongly disagree with him.

[redqueen]

72. You are incorrect.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0719-32.htm

[Alexander]

79. Your own link shows that I AM correct and you are WRONG.

From your link:

"(Asked recently about NAFTA by Larry King, Gore's position seems to have changed very little.)"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Game over. You lose.

[redqueen]

81. It's not a game. His position changed.

I'm done trying to talk to you like an adult... your petty bickering tone says all I need to know.

By the way... remember how quickly Gore switched his position on ABORTION.

[Alexander]

84. Not on NAFTA it didn't. And that's what you claimed.

You asserted it, so now you can live with the fact that you're wrong.

[jackson_dem]

98. Gore flip flopped on gay marriage just YESTERDAY

Single payer health care is another issue the DLC's first candidate went way to the left on. The list goes on and on with Gore.

[redqueen]

100. Hah.

If he throws his hat in the ring, I expect the "issue" of phoniness to disappear in a giant poof of hypocritical smoke.

[Alexander]

104. The only way Gore would run now is if he were drafted at the convention...

He's not a politician now, so he can say what he feels like. It sounds like that's exactly what he's doing.

[jackson_dem]

114. Your defense of Gore is that he lied as a politician for decades?

[redqueen]

116. Suddenly it's politics again, and not a contest for who's the purest...

:banghead:

[Alexander]

122. So Edwards backs off of 3 different trade bills he voted for, and you talk about who's "purest".

Edwards voted:

-FOR the China trade bill

-FOR steel tariffs

-FOR increased trade with Andean nations

He is now opposed to all of those.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[jackson_dem]

125. Alexander caught lying again. Edwards voted against Andean trade

Just like he has opposed every trade bill that has come down the pike in his career except for one which Kennedy, Leahy, Kerry and 80 other senators supported and President Clinton pushed for.

[redqueen]

128. You really do a tremendous job.

:toast:

[jackson_dem]

130. Thanks. It is easy to do with the truth riding shotgun

:) :hi:

[jackson_dem]

126. Yup. And he talks about others flip flopping

:rofl:

[redqueen]

127. I dunno how his head head doesn't explode

from the cognitive dissonance.

It's frickin POLITICS.

[Alexander]

121. Nope, merely that he broke with the DLC and it's the best thing he ever did.

I applaud Al for breaking free of the DINOs who Love Clinton.

Don't you?

[Alexander]

102. Perhaps he supported it but was muzzled by the DLC in the past.

At least Gore didn't apologize for his entire Senate record once he was out of a job.

[jackson_dem]

115. Gore was the DLC's presidential candidate and founding member, not a puppet

Gore supported DOMA. Gore opposed gay marriage. Well, he did until yesterday...

Gore rocks but I am not going to let people who love Gore hypocritically swiftboat Edwards.

[redqueen]

118. Yes, I love Gore ... but I don't have my head in the clouds...

and pretend that some candidates are superheroic angels.

[thoughtcrime1984]

131. Edwards hasn't even had a chance to show this "transformation"

Last I saw he was voting in the Senate as a moderate. He has no active track record of what he is portraying right now. Maybe he would be a true Populist, maybe not. Gore has actually taken actions that show us that he was sincere with his political change of heart. I would like to see JE in the Senate or another office to show us that this change is real, before just throwing him into the Presidency.

[jackson_dem]

13. Wellstone voted for the Patriot Act and No Child

So is he fraud then? I thought no "real Democrat" would vote for them?

[Alexander]

25. I never said that. You really can't debate honestly, can you?

[jackson_dem]

30. When did I say you said that? You can't really debate honestly, can you?

Now answer the question.

[wyldwolf]

34. better watch out. He'll sick his alter ego - dionysus - on you!

[jackson_dem]

47. I knew "dionysus" was a sock puppet

Thanks for telling me whose it was. :)

[Alexander]

76. Mark Twain: "It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble...

It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so."

One of Gore's, and my, favorite quotes.

Now go take your dumb ass to the admins and cry about sockpuppetry if you're serious.

But you won't. Because you know you're wrong.

[jackson_dem]

99. I couldn't care less about sockpuppetry

[Alexander]

109. Because you know you wrongfully accused me of it...

And you know you are writing checks that your brain can't cash.

[dionysus]

77. would you care to back up that assertion with cash?

i can set up a paypal account for you to transfer the funds to.

[Alexander]

82. No, the"sockpuppet" morons don't want to lose all their money.

I find it hilarious that these guys think we're the same person. Most long-time DUers know we live on opposite sides of the COUNTRY, for Christ's sake.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[wyldwolf]

137. Paxil helps with gambling addiction, too.

[Alexander]

71. Post #13. Now quit being a lying jackass.

[wyldwolf]

33. you forgot something this morning...

[Alexander]

87. I kissed your wife good-bye this morning. What did I forget?

Sorry pal, you can sit in the closet and pop those pills to yourself.

[wyldwolf]

136. your Paxil, silly. If you took it, you could quit fantasizing and live a real life

[ozone_man]

15. Al Gore is DLC. He's wooden.

;)

If anyone has undergone a transformation it would be Al Gore. And Howard Dean too. They both learned how to get their message out there, how to be passionate speakers. But you can tell the sincerity from listening to them.

But if Russ Feingold got hold of him, Al Gore would be a DLC party hack. We know that isn't the case though. People do change.

[jackson_dem]

16. Look at post 12 to hear what Feingold's swiftboating left out

Edwards "changed" on those issues as much as Ted Kennedy "changed." TED KENNEDY! The greatest living senator. Are we to believe he is a fraud? I would love to see Feingold, an internet phenomenon, go up to the liberal lion and legend Ted and say that to his face.

[balantz]

17. Yes.

Why does he single out Edwards when Kennedy and others are in the same boat on this issue? And if he's focusing on candidates, what about Hillary?

[jackson_dem]

19. He is carrying Obama's water but doesn't have the integrity to do it openly

Hillary doesn't benefit from this. The only people who care about Feingold outside of Wisconsin hate her. He is trying to drive some of the netroots from Edwards to Obama.

[balantz]

21. It appears that way doesn't it?

Why is he jumping on the wagon with his more conservative colleagues, and without saying it out loud supporting a candidate who is clearly less progressive than Edwards? So much of what is occuring in Washington against Edwards has the look of conspiracy.

[cali]

23. Stop comparing Edwards to Kennedy or Leahy.

It's simply laughable. Did either of them vote for the fucking war? What have they accomplished?

[jackson_dem]

27. Their records are their records. It is idiotic to lambast Edwards for what many good Democrats did

Only lying Obamaite swiftboaters do that knowing full well that most people are never going to look up the vote, let alone research the legislative history, context, arguments pro and con. Obam is running the ugliest campaign any Democrat has run in a while. Hopefully he goes down on flames on Super Tuesday partly because of it.

Typical Obamite. The war has nothing to do with No Child, the Patriot Act, or PNTR.

[LittleClarkie]

112. You disagree with him so he's a swiftboater?

Bull shit.

[stray cat]

18. Colleagues may know more about each other than just the record

Thats why employers get reference letters or make calls before they hire an individual. I may not trust the reference implicitly but I am alert to the opinions of people who worked with the employee previously. Same if I'm looking for a job and want to know what the potential boss is like.

[redqueen]

24. Even if he thinks Gore had "good" reasons and Edwards is just a phony...

he was WRONG to trash John's supporters.

Also this doesn't explain how he's still up in the air over Clinton. She's progressive enough, but John isn't?

This stinks.

[cali]

20. "He's come around on more issues than Edwards"

Could you provide some evidence for that please. In any case, Gore's movement was gradual and can be traced. And just when did he write "Earth in The Balance"?

[robbedvoter]

22. Gore has more creds than Edwards. He fought for my vote for one.

[redqueen]

26. How so? (nt)

[robbedvoter]

35. Didn't concede. Pursued every legal option. Put himself out there for me, the voter

As a result, even if SCOTUS installed W anyway, at least everyone knows he wasn't elected in 2000. I felt my candidate respected my vote.
The opposite is true in 2004 where the 2 Johns surrendered, kept quiet, and I had to hear about "we lost" "man date" "value voters" and "there was an accountability moment - it was called the 2004 election" (Bush)
Every time someone says he won, I curse the 2 Johns for that.

[redqueen]

37. I see... I had the impression that Edwards wanted to fight, and Kerry said not to do so...

:shrug:

[bornskeptic]

134. Of course you recall that Gore offered his concession to Bush

on election night, before midnight PST.

<snip>

November 8: A series of early-morning events set the stage for a protracted presidential battle. First, by about 2:15 a.m., the major networks call Florida and the election for Bush. Gore, hearing that he probably will lose Florida by about 50,000 votes, calls the Texas governor and concedes.

But 45 minutes later, while Gore is en route to a rally in Nashville to give a concession address, aides reach him and tell him the news: Bush's lead in Florida has shrunk dramatically and the Texas governor's lead is only a few thousand votes at best.

Gore calls Bush. "Let me make sure I understand," the Texas governor said, according to a report in Time magazine. "You're calling me back to retract your concession." Bush tells Gore that Bush's brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, has assured the Texas governor that he has won Florida. "Your younger brother is not the ultimate authority on this," Gore replies.

Gore never gives the public address. Instead, he sends out his campaign chairman, former Commerce Secretary Bill Daley, to speak to the crowd. Although Gore is ready to concede if there is a clear sign he has lost Florida, "Our campaign continues," Daley said.

<snip>
http://edition.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/13/got.here/index.html

When Kerry conceded the day after the election he was down by over 100,000 votes in Ohio. Kerry, in Gore's position, would have fought on as Gore did; and Gore, in Kerry's position, would have conceded at least as soon as Kerry did.

[jackson_dem]

32. Edwards wanted to fight. Kerry didn't

[robbedvoter]

36. Who stopped him? Who kept his mouth closed for 4 years?

[redqueen]

38. Politics is a dirty, dirty business... how many other Pols talked about the stolen election?

Did Russ?

Also, Gore didn't back the House up when they refused to certify the results... is that not as big a problem?

[robbedvoter]

40. Way too few. But I didn't give my vote to Russ, I gave it to the 2 Johns.

[redqueen]

41. Well I'm only making the point

that zero to very few pols have said bupkus about the stolen election.

And Gore didn't do anything about it in the Senate, when he had the chance.

[robbedvoter]

43. True. Barbara Boxer did this time - Kerry was...in Iraq. I feel personally insulted

by these two for allowing the lie to stand.

[redqueen]

44. I figure it's some political thing...

and that just about every pol I can think of hasn't talked about it for the same reason Gore didn't back up the House Dems when they tried to say "Oh no you don't!"

[PeaceNikki]

39. Russ takes issue with Edwards voting record. Rightfully so.

Voted for the Patriot Act, campaigns against it.
Voted for No Child Left Behind, campaigns against it.
Voted for the China trade deal, campaigns against it.
Voted for the Iraq war ...
He uses RUSS's voting record exactly as his platform, even though he had the opposite voting record.

When you had the opportunity to vote a certain way in the Senate and you didn't, and obviously there are times when you make a mistake, the notion that you sort of vote one way when you're playing the game in Washington and another way when you're running for president, there's some of that going on.

[redqueen]

42. That's why I made this topic about Gore...

Most people seem like they'd jump right on that bandwagon should he announce... but I don't know that he's even admitted any of his mistakes.

Seems a strange disconnect.

[PeaceNikki]

45. Russ's mistakes? What mistakes?

I know... people will take issue with his votes on nominations. And I will point you here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4201394&mesg_id=4202557

Russ is MY Senator. I've voted for him, read his biography and educated myself on him and his positions. He's not untouchable, but he's pretty damn close. I can't imagine a candidate closer on issues with me in his lifetime than Russ.

I trust and value his opinion a great deal. And, he's absolutely right in pointing out that Edwards voting record is the opposite of his campaign on some very key issues. He has and would call out anyone for the same.

[redqueen]

48. He doesn't seem to have a problem with Hillary's votes...

or Obama's votes to extend the PATRIOT Act, despite his own votes against.

I think this stinks to high heaven.

[PeaceNikki]

57. Because he said

"obviously there are times when you make a mistake, the notion that you sort of vote one way when you're playing the game in Washington and another way when you're running for president, there's some of that going on."

It's not one or 2 issues with Edwards - it's at least FIVE key areas.
The Patriot Act
No Child Left Behind
The China trade deal
The Iraq war
The bankruptcy bill

He has butted heads with Clinton. He's no cheerleader for her. And he's not endorsing her or Obama.

"I'm looking for somebody who can carry real change and a real feeling of unity in the country. I see some of these qualities in Senator Clinton and some in Senator Obama. And I simply don't feel that I am compelled to make a decision."

[redqueen]

62. Gore was bass-ackwards on WAY more than 5 issues. (nt)

[jackson_dem]

103. Gore's whole 2000 campaign was dogged by allegations of him being a phony and flip flopping

How quickly we forget.

[jackson_dem]

101. So Russ Feingold thinks Patrick Leahy is a fraud?

Hillary is the same as Edwards on those issues but Feingold isn't smearing her. Of course, Hillary isn't competing with Obama for the voters that care about Feingold...

Leahy:

The Patriot Act
No Child Left Behind
The China trade deal
The bankruptcy bill

Jackson_dem (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Jan-25-08 07:11 PM
Original message
Look at which Republican lite senators voted with Edwards and Clinton on these bills!

Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 07:13 PM by jackson_dem
There are a few bills supporters of one candidate use to swift boat his rivals. They never provide the context for those votes. To learn more about them I looked at the vote totals and roll call for them. I was shocked to learn that progressive heroes like Ted Kennedy, Paul Wellstone, and others are or were closet Republicans. The biggest Republican of them all was surprisingly Patrick Leahy, though.

Patriot Act

Passed 98-1.
For it: Leahy, Kennedy, Wellstone, Edwards, Clinton
St. Obama: not present since he was in Illinois

No Child Left Behind

Passed 91-8 (47-2 among Democrats).
For it: Leahy, Kennedy, Wellstone, Edwards, Clinton
St. Obama: not present since he was in Illinois


Normal trade relations with China

Passed 83-15
For it: Kennedy, Leahy, Edwards, Clinton
St. Obama: not present since he was in Illinois

Bankruptcy bill of 2001

Passed 83-15
For it: Leahy, Edwards, Clinton
St. Obama: not present

Ted Kennedy now says No Child should be reformed, became "against" the Patriot Act because he wanted it to be reformed, thinks China didn't work out as intended. How can we trust someone who voted wrong three times on three carefully flyspecked bills? His rhetoric doesn't match his record. He is a flip flopper. Don't trust him. Vote for the one candidate who didn't get it wrong on these issues: Barack Obama. He has never made a mistake. Just ask his supporters or him.

To illustrate how easy swiftboating a Senator's record is, I could have easily posted them same list and stocked it with names like "Lieberman, Nelson" to make Edwards and Clinton look worse. Don't accept the bull you are told about folks' records. Look it up if you care about a particular bill. Find out the context. You can learn a lot simply from looking at who voted for it and the vote tally. Maybe a bill that passed 91-8 that progressive like Kennedy, Leahy, and Wellstone supported didn't look that bad at the time? Nah, it can't be! They were rethug lites who sold out! Ted Kennedy: pawn of the DLC!

"We've cast hundreds and hundreds of votes. What you're criticizing her for, by the way, you've done to us, which is you pick this vote and that vote out of the hundreds that we've cast." Edwards calling Obama out for his hypocrisy in the CNN debate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4202823

[jackson_dem]

50. Why didn't he call out Hillary for the same votes?

Or noted Republican lite Senator like Ted Kennedy and Leahy who voted the same on most of those bills? In Leahy's case he is just like Edwards and Clinton except on the IWR.

[redqueen]

51. Exactly...

this stinks... bad.

[redqueen]

54. And no... I didn't mean Russ's mistakes (besides insluting a whole group of supporters)

I was referring to Gore's mistakes.

I'm curious if people would take this crap from Russ re: Gore.

[PeaceNikki]

88. See... him stating his opposition to Edward's votes isn't "crap".

He's not making stuff up or flinging shit about shaky land deals and campaign finances (although he HAS taken issue with Clinton's campaign finances in the past). He's stating what's already known.

[redqueen]

89. He said Edwards' supporters were being "taken in"... *that's* the crap...

Sorry if I wasn't clear before... I'm suspicious of his being more willing to get behind Clinton than Edwards (since progressiveness seems to be his big thing)...

But what really burns my ass is his insinuation that Edwards' supporters are fools.

I'd say the same thing about any pol that said such things about any candidate's supporters, even if I fucking well agreed. It's just wrong.

[PeaceNikki]

91. He said Edwards has "taken in" voters, not that they are fools.

"Edwards had "taken in" voters by switching positions on several key issues."

Meaning he's gotten support by switching postions. Assuming that's equivilent to being called a "fool" is a stretch and smells of being very defensive.

[redqueen]

93. It's a hyperbolic way to put it, I'll admit...

but I don't think it's so defensive... I think it's a perfectly valid inference to make.

[jackson_dem]

105. He exposed himself by not mentioning Hillary's votes

Or the truth about Edwards' votes. Great progressives voted the same way as Edwards on those bill. Feingold knows it but he didn't say it because he is peddling an Obamite netroots smear. The only reasons he would do this is if he is whoring for Obama or just has a personal hatred of his former co-worker Edwards.

[PeaceNikki]

111. Who are you, The Amazing Kreskin?

[robbedvoter]

46. Admitting a mistake in words doesn't impress me as much as the deeds of someone

For instance: Gore did vote for the first Gulf war, but this time around, he put himself on the record - at the time of deliberations - against it. he might have had an impact on the senate too - had not Joementum and Gephardt jump the gun and pose with Bush - we love ya and your war! Gore gave a kick ass speech at the right time - took a lot of hit for it - but influenced the national debate.
Edwards is still disingenuous about his IWR sponsorship. he ran a full race supporting the war last time. Only one year after that did he change his stand. It didn't take courage, didn't add anything to the dialo, it was merely a go with the polls - no ripple event. No risk, no gain.
Gore earned his creds with me through deeds , not sorry's.
Kinda like Byrd with his constituents - who forgave him his dark past because of good deeds rather than empty words.

[redqueen]

49. So it's the timing of the coming around?

I wonder how long it took for Gore to come around on NAFTA?

Or the Telecom Act?

[jackson_dem]

53. Gore "came around" on abortion in 1988. What was he doing in 1988?

[redqueen]

55. Let me guess - running for office?

[jackson_dem]

58. Yes. Guess which office? Clue: it was a more liberal constituency than his old TN one

;)

[redqueen]

70. Was he running for the same office that the big fat fake phony liar Edwards is now?

Ugh.

This is just fucking sad...

[jackson_dem]

75. Bingo! Al Gore=another phony! Vote St. Obama: the only pure person in politics!

[redqueen]

78. I guess... only if I have to. (nt)

[jackson_dem]

90. Feingold said so!

[PeaceNikki]

92. Where? Where did he say that?

[jackson_dem]

52. Damn. So Edwards record is like Ted Kennedy's on three of those issues!

Ted Kennedy:

Voted for the Patriot Act,now against it.
Voted for No Child Left Behind, now against it.
Voted for the China trade deal, now against it.

Feingold is a nobody outside of the blogs. Ted Kennedy is of the greatest Senators ever and has done more for progressives in the Senate than anyone in the past 50 years.

[redqueen]

56. Feingold had my respect... and my support for president...

I voted for him in a straw poll at my state's Dem convention in '06.

This is so very, very disappointing. :(

[jackson_dem]

60. He's still a great progressive but his dishonesty in whoring for Obama is dissapointing

[redqueen]

66. I don't know what he's doing... but it's frickin sad.

Insulting a candidate's supporters is just fucked up, no matter who you're whoring for.

[PeaceNikki]

94. ok - so... pointing out Edwards questionable votes = whoring for Obama??

Wow. That's a stretch.

[redqueen]

95. FWIW I don't claim he's whoring for anyone...

I don't know what he's thinking, saying clinton is worth considering, while trashing edwards... but it's so disappointing...

[jackson_dem]

107. Why didn't he mention Hillary?

Oh. That's right. Hill isn't competing with Obama for netroots, the only place outside of Wisconsin Feingold matters, support.

[redqueen]

110. Oh... now I see why you're saying that it's about Obama.

*sigh*

[jackson_dem]

117. If he were honest about it I would respect it more but he is doing it underhandely

That is the Obama style for negative attacks, though.

[redqueen]

119. No shit... and maybe he could have left out the part

where he implied Edwards' supporters were being played for fools.

:(

[NJSecularist]

59. Russ is 100% right

Edwards supporters don't want to hear it though.

[redqueen]

63. I asked what you'd think if he tried this crap on Gore, who's flip flopped on way more than 5 issues

Want to address that?

[NJSecularist]

83. Maybe Edwards should win a Democratic nomination first

or maybe even a few states before we try and compare him to Gore.

[redqueen]

86. Gore flip flopped on abortion when running for president.

Guess he won't deserve to get the nod, should he throw his hat in. Just another phony.

[jackson_dem]

108. And flip flopped on yet another issue, gay marriage, just YESTERDAY

[barbtries]

124. who is Russ?

i can't think who you mean,no joke.

scrolled down and my best guess was verified. feingold it is. i didn't catch his comments.

[redqueen]

129. There's a couple threads posted about what he said...

he said that Edwards' supporters were being 'taken in'... inferring that he's a big phony and his supporters are being suckered.

Bad bad bad.

[PeaceNikki]

132. I love you to death redqueen.. but I disagree with your twisting his words.

He said "Edwards had "taken in" voters by switching positions on several key issues."

Taken in voters - meaning he's gotten support by switching postions.

I again contend that reading that as calling anyone a fool or phony or suckered is a huge leap.

[redqueen]

133. Aw... back at ya sweetie...

Maybe I'm just taking his words too personally... and I feel ashamed for that... but I can't help seeing it exactly that way.

For us to be taken in, we have to be fooled. I guess we'll just agree to disagree...


Thank Christ or the higher power of your choice or just goodness that we can do so civilly. :pals:

[PeaceNikki]

135. I don't have a candidate yet. I understand how it could be taken that way, but

I really know a lot about my fine Senator and know he would never ever intentionally infer such things about voters. He's just not that kinda guy.

I don't know why Edward's record was singled out - God knows that every one of them has made poor decisions - and on some of the very same issues.

The Q&A was done by a paper in a pretty red part of the state, so there could even be some selective reporting.

Civility does seem rare in these parts during these heated political times - so I also cherish the moments where we can disagree and not hurl poop at each other. :hug:

[barbtries]

142. thank you

i managed to miss those threads.

[JI7]

138. Gore isn't running for President

he is doing what he has always been doing which is advocating for a better environment.