Defend this Clinton ad...

[DUyellow]

Before you post, research it, and then get back to me.

[maddiejoan]

1. okay

Here's what Illinois NOW says about Obama.
(where they actually know Obama AND Illinois politics.)

http://www.illinoisnow.org /

<snip>

Obama Was Present, But He Was Not There On Issues That Mattered to Illinois Women

In celebration of Women’s History Month, March 28, 2007, the National Organization for Women Political Action Committee, NOW PAC, announced its endorsement of Hillary Clinton for President (see article below).

Illinois NOW PAC supported the endorsement of Senator Clinton. “She is, after all, our native sister,” said Bonnie Grabenhofer, president of Illinois NOW. “We know from her record and in her heart she will be there for us.”

Senator Clinton has a long history of support for women's empowerment, and her public record is a testimony to her leadership on issues important to women in the U.S. and around the globe. She has eloquently articulated the need for full economic, political and social equality for women in every institution of society, taking action throughout her career — as a lawyer, community leader, First Lady, Senator and candidate for the presidency — to advance the civil and human rights of women and girls.

After looking at his record, Grabenhofer does not feel the same way about Illinois Senator Barack Obama.

During Senator Obama’s 2004 senate campaign, the Illinois NOW PAC did not recommend the endorsement of Obama for U.S. Senate because he refused to stand up for a woman’s right to choose and repeatedly voted ‘present’ on important legislation.

As a State Senator, Barack Obama voted ‘present’ on seven abortion bills, including a ban on 'partial birth abortion,' two parental notification laws and three 'born alive' bills. In each case, the right vote was clear, but Senator Obama chose political cover over standing and fighting for his convictions.

“When we needed someone to take a stand, Senator Obama took a pass,” said Grabenhofer. “He wasn’t there for us then and we don’t expect him to be now.”

For more information on the endorsement go to www.nowpac.org

<snip>

[tabatha]

and now go to these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILVLzbBcs8A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVuMYKs8iJs

[maddiejoan]

10. I've seen them

so what?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

15. They're not lying so you probably don't understand. nt

[maddiejoan]

17. How do you know?

Why do you accept Lorna's word that she was even a former Clinton supporter?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

43. Not that hard to check

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?last=Howard&first=Lorna

Howard, Lorna B (Brett)
New York , NY 10003
Self employed/Public Relations CLINTON, HILLARY RODHAM (D)
President
HILLARY CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT $1,900
general 01/26/07

[maddiejoan]

55. So in other words

some PR flack switches sides.

News at 11

[mrreowwr_kittty]

58. In other words, you got pwned!

Thanks for playing. Now I'm putting you on ignore because you're boring me. Run along and play with your lying, smearing, racist, friends.

[maddiejoan]

59. I bet you are a real sweetheart

[mrreowwr_kittty]

62. Though I told you I have you on ignore, you reply!

:rofl:

[lapfog_1]

44. Don't confuse the Hillary supporters with facts now...

They have drank the kool-aid and whatever distortions or outright lies their candidate tells... they have bought it all.

They remind me of the worst of the Bush-bots. Never question anything.

Hillary says that a "present" vote is not standing up for the rights of women, therefore that must be the truth.

Never mind the statements of the leaders from NARAL and Planned Parenthood. Nevermind this person in your videos who is the past president of NOW in Chicago. The present vote is the choice of someone looking for political cover for themselves... it's the choice of someone that won't stand up for reproductive choice rights. It was the "yellow" button.

God, these Clinton supporters disgust me.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. As I said before, Illinois NOW can kiss my fine feminist ass

Planned Parenthood and NARAL back Obama up on this.

As for NOW, yesterday I tore up my membership card and mailed it back in the return envelope. If they want to endorse and provide cover for a warmongering, racebaiting, smear artist that's their choice but they can do it without my damn money.

Fuck NOW.

[maddiejoan]

11. sure

why let facts intrude on fantasy.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

16. Liar. nt

[maddiejoan]

19. closed-minded

:shrug:


The flyer tells a truth you don't like. There isn't much I can do about that.

[lapfog_1]

21. Even if she wins the nomination with these tactics

She is going to need you and me and all the other Obama and Edwards and Kucinich supporters in the GE.

And guess what?

I, for one, won't be there for her.

[maddiejoan]

25. Planned Parenthood of Chicago?

Ya mean the one that is run by Steve Trombley?

The original source for the incoorect assumption that Clinton is lying is from Steve Trombley, CEO and president of Planned Parenthood/Chicago Action.

Apparently Trombley has been a longtime Obama supporter throughout his career, and was called on specifically by Obama's camp to distort Obama's record.

http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/illinois_now_for_clinton_with.html

Interesting post in the comments section:
<snip>

The point is in the record. Yes, Planned Parenthood thought of the strategy but then they also wrote and introduced a parental notification bill this year. Not exactly leaders for women's rights. Obama did vote present several times and explained it as an effort to help those who might be hurt by a no vote. Lorna Brett, a former local NOW chapter president from the 1990's, certainly knows that he didn't need to take that vote. She also knows that NOW has never supported such a strategy and if she worked with Planned Parenthood on it she did so for her own reasons against the policy of the state and national organizations.
Here's an even better explanation from the Chicago Tribune: Sen. Obama’s explanation for 'present' votes is questionable; 'few of the other Democrats who voted ‘present’ on abortion bills recall such a strategy' as Sen. Obama did. Sen. Obama "said he worked out an arrangement with abortion-rights advocates to encourage Democrats to vote ‘present’ on some bills if they feared a ‘no’ would look insensitive and endanger their re-election. But few of the other Democrats who voted ‘present’ on abortion bills recall such a strategy. And, like Obama, they weren't politically vulnerable."
This is about a presidential election. The idea that a coalition of pro-choice voters must somehow stick together no matter what is somewhat old fashioned. The pro-choice community I know has room for many opionions and no tolerance for shutting people up as both Steve and Lorna try to do.
Go Hillary!

<snip>

[mrreowwr_kittty]

39. I'm going to defer to the people who have expertise in that unique legislative situation

Not Clinton surrogates, thank you very much.

GObama!!

[maddiejoan]

53. suit yourself

just know that what you are doing is deferring to an Obama surrogate --Steven Trombley.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

54. Hey check out post 43 nt

[bellasgrams]

50. how ladylike of you

[mrreowwr_kittty]

51. Just so you know

Most feminists don't give a flying fuck about being ladylike.

[flpoljunkie]

30. Planned Parenthood gaev Obama a 100% rating. More disingenuous distortions from the Clintons who

are proving every day they are "in it to win it" at any cost--destroying the Democratic party and the nation included.

[maddiejoan]

36. Okay, slugger

I think it's great that you believe percentage points more than actual actions.

[enough already]

38. The word of Planned Parenthood and NARAL is good enough for me

Fuck Hillary, fuck Bill, and fuck everyone associated with that smear campaign and their damned lies.

[rinsd]

2. Obama supporters defend these ads!

Obama's Creative Clippings Part Deux
January 17, 2008
The ad may be new, but we've seen this tactic, from this candidate, before.
Summary
The Obama campaign's new ad uses an old trick and takes quotes from newspapers out of context.

* Once again, the campaign uses a quote from a news story to say Obama's health plan would offer universal coverage. But the full article points out that his plan "does not guarantee" full coverage.

* The ad also shows a clip saying that Obama has been against the war in Iraq since the beginning. True enough, but the story also chastises him for making too much of the boldness of his early stance.


http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_creative_clippings_part_deux.html

Since we're brining up old bullshit

[tabatha]

9. some more fact chekcing

http://www.factcheck.org/clinton_vs_obama.html

[sniffa]

3. I'll give it a shot.

WHAT? DON'T YOU WANT TO WINN1? BARAK HUSSEIN MOHAMMED OBAMA IS JUST WHINGY CRYBABY WITH NO SPINE. HOW IS HE GOYN TO STAND UP TO THE VASCH RIGHT WIN CONSPRCY? THE CLINTONS KNOW HOW TO FIGT DRTY. ITS NOT FOR TEH FANT OF HART.

[no name no slogan]

4. THREAD OVAR. WE HAVE TEH WINNAR!!!111oneoneeleven!

:thumbsup:

[sniffa]

49. w00t!

:woohoo:

I love getting in early on these threads. :bounce:

[DUyellow]

8. I guess he could be like Kerry and just let the lies stand. That would out well

[sniffa]

14. WHAT ARE YOU TLKING ABOT?

TEH CLINTONS ARE THE ONLY CANDDATE THAT CAN STND AP TO TEH VASH RIGT WONGG CONSPIRSACY!

[Alexander]

32. ROFL, I laughed so hard my sides hurt. That was great!

Seriously though, that mailer is disgustingly indefensible.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

5. Every word is true. It's loaded and quite unfair, but not false.

As far as defending it?

You will find many fine books on politics in the library.

I am sorry that what seems to be the first campaign you've ever followed isn't working out for you.

[DUyellow]

20. I love it how people think that Obama supporters are all teenagers.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

26. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt

[lapfog_1]

46. I'm over 50!

and I think Obama would make a fine President.

[DUyellow]

27. How did we get into this war? Lies and Deceptions, I guess Clinton really did learn something from..

that vote.

[cali]

6. oh well, who would expect the clintons and their pals to stick to the truth?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

13. You seem filled with passionate intensity

[lapfog_1]

12. That's just sick.

There isn't any justification for such distortions.

And the constant jabs here from the Clintonistas on this issue, including a number of posters that now use the avatar
"I voted... Present".

I'm sure they will be along shortly.

Planned Parenthood and NARAL ( you know, those organizations that really don't want anyone to stand up for abortion rights :sarcasm: ) asked Obama to vote present.

But don't confuse the Clintonistas with facts. They would rather rage on in their singular hate of anything and everything Obama (it would be Edwards if he was leading, trust me).

Fortunately, I have about 25 people on my ignore list(out of the 100,000+ signups, that isn't too bad) and that keeps most of the ignorance off of my screen.

Until this campaign, I only ever had 1 person on my ignore list. Sad, really.

[enough already]

40. When they lose in the fall, they'll be scratching their pinheads and wondering what went wrong

karma is a bitch.

[lapfog_1]

48. Oh no...

If Clinton wins the nomination and loses the election...

"America is just too sexist to have a woman President."

Count on it.

[HughMoran]

18. I just threw that flier away recently

We never read it, we just joked that we couldn't tell who sent it since it had a picture of both candidates on it :D

[Maribelle]

22. Every time I hear Obama attempt to defend his "present" votes it changes

to give political cover to other democrats to vote no?
to protest that a bill is unconstitutional?
it's a procedural thingie?

Woman's issues require firm support.
And women need to know how Obama is playing politics with things that matter most to them.

[tabatha]

35. Obama

worked with women to strategise his votes.
See posts below.

[lapfog_1]

42. So I guess to "defend the principle"

you would ignore the wishes and specific request of both Planned Parenthood and NARAL?

Because women's issues require firm support and NARAL wouldn't have a clue how to do that, would they?

Keeping a majority in the assembly isn't a good enough reason? You'd rather have other Democrats in districts that are more republican than Democrat lose their bid for re-election because a republican candidate would use the "no" vote against them on bills entitled "Protection of Live Births" and the like. And the outcome of the "no" vote would likely lead to a republican majority and those bills final passage when reintroduced in the next session.

Do you want results or the ability to stand up and say "I VOTED NO". Especially when you know that the rules are clear, a "present" vote and a "no" vote are the same.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Obama did the right thing for the right reason. He has a 100 percent rating from both NARAL and PP. And he has testimony from leaders of both organization that THEY planned the strategy and asked the members to vote "present".

[mrreowwr_kittty]

45. Basically they think whatever the Borg tells them to think. nt

[enough already]

68. Reason number 547 why I'll never, ever vote for Hillary n/t

[mopinko]

23. illinois now's endorsement is for sale to the highest bidder.

the endorsed tammy duckworth, who waffled, weaseled and refused to take a stand on choice, over christine cegelis in the '06 ill. 6th CD race. they sold out to rahm and the dccc then, they are selling out to hillary now. \
i live here. i have seen them in action.
any more questions?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

47. Screw NOW. Whatta buncha political hacks.

I'd been told that before but I never imagined they sell out like this.

[MethuenProgressive]

24. There's a reason the Present button is Yellow.

[Stephanie]

28. Disgusting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-loeb/hillary-clintons-sleaze-_b_82183.html

Like most candidates, Clinton spends the bulk of her money on ads and mailings, and she's taken some pretty problematic approaches there too. I wonder how many of the New Hampshire women who voted last minute for Clinton were swayed by a mailing claiming that Obama wasn't really committed to abortion rights because he'd voted "present" on some abortion-related legislative votes. Except that Obama had done so as part of a strategy devised by Illinois Planned Parenthood to protect vulnerable swing district representatives. New England Planned Parenthood's Board Chair strongly refuted Clinton's letter, pointing out that Obama had a 100% record on all the votes that really mattered. But the mailing may still have damaged his support.

[babylonsister]

29. Obama FACT Check:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gG60xsyt9Bdrdl6YUwhu0CYeBqTwD8UC4MA00

Fact Check: Obama's 'Present' Votes

1 day ago


THE SPIN: Obama portrays himself as someone voters can trust to tell the truth and skip the usual political games. Clinton and John Edwards are using his "present" votes to offer a different picture — one of Obama ducking tough issues or refusing to support common-sense legislation.

THE FACTS: Obama acknowledges that over nearly eight years in the Illinois Senate, he voted "present" 129 times. That was out of roughly 4,000 votes he cast, so those "presents" amounted to about one of every 31 votes in his legislative career.

Illinois legislators often vote "present" and for a wide variety of reasons. Sometimes blocs of lawmakers do it as a protest in some dispute over rules and procedures. Obama was often joined in his "present" votes by 10 or 20 other senators.

In other cases, lawmakers do it to signal objections to the details of a measure that they support in principle. They also use "present" votes as strategic moves to defeat legislation or, of course, simply to avoid taking a firm position.

Clinton highlights several of Obama's "present" votes that she considers questionable.

Several involve abortion — a ban on certain late-pregnancy abortions, a requirement that a minor's parents be notified and restrictions on a type of abortion where the fetus sometimes survives for short periods.

"A woman's right to choose ... demands a leader who will stand up and protect it," said one Clinton campaign mailer.

But the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council says Obama's "present" votes were actually part of a careful strategy to prevent those restrictions from passing.

President Pam Sutherland said the group feared several senators were going to vote "yes" on the legislation because of attacks from Republicans over their past opposition. Sutherland says she approached Obama and convinced him to vote "present" so that the wavering senators would do the same. For their purposes, a "present" was as good as an outright "no" because it kept the bills from reaching the majority needed to pass.

[maddiejoan]

33. My take on when Obama supporters argue.

OS: Give me an apple

Me: Here's an apple

OS: I meant a RED apple.

Me: Here's a red apple.

OS: Redder. That's not red enough

Me: Here's the reddest apple I've ever seen.

OS: Well obviously you haven't seen Obama's apples. They are the reddest apples --and Hillary's apples suck anyway.

[Cameron27]

56. ROFL

Exactly

[Sparkly]

61. I don't understand -- why not just vote "no?"

Was he one of the senators they feared might vote "yes?"

[babylonsister]

64. No, attacks 'by republicans' is specifically mentioned. nt

[Sparkly]

67. Yes, as I understood it the attacks were causing some to lean toward "yes."

I don't understand how this caused Obama to vote "present," instead of "no," unless he was one of those leaning toward "yes"...?

[Bluerthanblue]

31. I have that exact ad- addressed to me- and I was

bothered by it- but figured it was 'spin' and voted for Obama nevertheless.

When I read Planned Parenthood's comments about it, I was pissed.

I don't trust Hillary- and that is something that I need to at least START OUT feeling -

There is no defense for this kind of deception and "win at any cost" crap.

We have a president now, with that attitude. I don't want another.

We can't survive another.

IMO

peace~

[mondo joe]

34. He voted PRESENT because the legislation was safe, so they couldn't use his vote against him - and

while that may have served him politically it doesn't make for much of a statement of support for the principle.

[babylonsister]

37. Bullshit. Read post#29. It was a strategy and he was encouraged by PP. nt

[mondo joe]

41. Yes, I understood it was a strategy. What in my post didn't you understand?

And while I recognize it was a strategy endorsed by PP, the fact remains: strategic though it was, it did not make for much of a show of support for the principle.

[David__77]

52. She had no choice but to run an opportunist and contentless campaign.

If this were all grounded in principle, political and ideological position, she would lose.

[Barack_America]

57. It is indefensible. Hillary is an insult to feminists everywhere.

She uses the right to choose like a weapon against other candidates, much like the GOP.

She's relying on her husband to get her elected.

She's not worthy of being our first woman president.

[mondo joe]

60. Ah, now to prop up your own partisan bias by trying to co-opt feminism.

Slick. :lol:

[Barack_America]

65. That's not necessary. There's plenty of feminists pissed off at her for this stunt.

:hi:

[mondo joe]

66. And plenty who aren't.

Hi there! :D

[TeamJordan23]

63. This went too far. nm

[Infinite Hope]

69. I don't see a problem with this one. n/t