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Questions for the Clintons - Bob Herbert (NYT)

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:37 AM
Original message
Questions for the Clintons - Bob Herbert (NYT)
<snip>

Joseph P. Riley Jr. has been mayor of this historic and often tense city since the mid-1970s. He’s a Democrat, highly respected and has worked diligently to heal racial wounds that have festered in some cases for hundreds of years.

He has endorsed Barack Obama in today’s Democratic primary. But what struck me during an interview in his quiet office in an exquisitely restored City Hall was not the fact of the endorsement, but the manner in which the mayor expressed it.

He went out of his way to praise the Democratic field, including some of the candidates who have dropped out, like Senators Joseph Biden and Chris Dodd. He talked about his fondness for Bill and Hillary Clinton and said: “It’s tough when you have to choose between friends.”

The mayor’s thoughtful, respectful, generous assessment of the field echoed the tone that had prevailed until recently in the Democratic primary campaign. That welcome tone has been lost, undermined by a deliberate injection of ugliness, and it would be very difficult to make the case that the Clintons have not been primarily to blame.

Bill Clinton, in his over-the-top advocacy of his wife’s candidacy, has at times sounded like a man who’s gone off his medication. And some of the Clinton surrogates have been flat-out reprehensible.

Andrew Young, for instance.

This week, while making the remarkable accusation that the Obama camp was responsible for raising the race issue, Mr. Clinton mentioned Andrew Young as someone who would bear that out. It was an extremely unfortunate reference.

Here’s what Mr. Young, who is black and a former ambassador to the United Nations, had to say last month in an interview posted online: “Bill is every bit as black as Barack. He’s probably gone with more black women than Barack.”

He then went on to make disgusting comments about the way that Bill and Hillary Clinton defended themselves years ago against the fallout from the former president’s womanizing. That’s coming from the Clinton camp!

And then there was Bob Kerrey, the former senator and another Clinton supporter, who slimed up the campaign with the following comments:

“It’s probably not something that appeals to him, but I like the fact that his name is Barack Hussein Obama, and that his father was a Muslim and that his paternal grandmother is a Muslim. There’s a billion people on the planet that are Muslims, and I think that experience is a big deal.”

Pressing the point, Mr. Kerrey told CNN’s John King: “I’ve watched the blogs try to say that you can’t trust him because he spent a little bit of time in a secular madrassa. I feel quite the opposite.”

Get it?

...

...

...

Mr. Obama’s campaign was always going to be difficult, and the climb is even steeper now. There is no reason to feel sorry for him. He’s a politician out of Chicago who must have known that campaigns often degenerate into demolition derbies.

Still, it’s legitimate to ask, given the destructive developments of the last few weeks, whether the Clintons are capable of being anything but divisive. The electorate seems more polarized now than it was just a few weeks ago, and the Clintons have seemed positively gleeful in that atmosphere.

It makes one wonder whether they have any understanding or regard for the corrosive long-term effects — on their party and the nation — of pitting people bitterly and unnecessarily against one another.

What kind of people are the Clintons? What role will Bill Clinton play in a new Clinton White House? Can they look beyond winning to a wounded nation’s need for healing and unifying?

These are questions that need to be answered. Stay tuned.

<snip>

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/26/opinion/26herbert.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Man... I hope "we" know what "we're" doing, ya know?

:banghead:



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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kick!
:dem:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. It all makes me very sad, to tell the truth.......
I thought we'd come so far, and it appeared that I needed a Clinton to let me know that it wasn't true. I shed a tear for our nation, because just like Bush was not what I expected as our first 21st century President, nor was this campaign of denigration and degradation what I thought I'd see. My two girls are/were very excited about this primary campaign. Now, I'm not sure how this will impact them, but they have seen ugly.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I think a lot of people have seen ugly, but it's not coming from Obama.
And thank you for all your great posts, FrenchieCat. You DO make a difference. :hug:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Well, here's to the primaries tomorrow!
We'll see what's what soon enough. :pals:
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. "gone off his meds"? No room for calling anybody else's comments "disgusting"
Crappy column
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Well, the columnist is not "nonpartisan." He's in the Obama camp.
Of course he's going to crap on the opposition.

Lately, he hasn't been writing columns, but instead, campaign ads.

E.g.:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/05/opinion/05herbert.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/opinion/12herbert.html

Really--he oughta get his check from the Obama campaign. He's not even subtle about it.
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R. I know a good amount of Dems are feeling this way right now. nm
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Me Too... Me Too...
What a difference a few weeks can make, eh???

:shrug:
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. Bob Herbert 'gets it'. Please read this, Hillary supporters. Or tell us why
Herbert is wrong, with knowledge and not just spin.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. He doesn't 'get it.' He supports Obama. His columns are extensions of the campaign. NT
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. No, he does get it
I am undecided on a candidate and have been dispassionately watching this and I am appalled at the Clinton campaign's tactics. I think it will backfire on the party and this election is too important to lose.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Read Herbert's columns. They're campaign dispatches.
He is a partisan, and is an Obama supporter. Everything he says has to be viewed through that lens.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. He is NOT a partisan. Read his columns. Stop with your spin. Please don't
negate his opinion because you don't agree with it.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. What the hell is WRONG with you? I am not "negating his opinion."
I am simply pointing out his affinity and his bias. He IS an Obama supporter. That means he IS a partisan.

And he has been since the Senate campaign. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F07E1D81231F937A35755C0A9629C8B63

How you can read his stuff and claim otherwise is quite...incredible.

In case you aren't clear, the guy is not a "reporter." He is an OP-ED columnist.

He's paid to give his OPINION. And his OPINION includes his OPINIONS about the guy he supports.

:eyes:

You're not as sharp as I thought you were.
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thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Ever thought maybe he "gets it" therefore he is backing Obama?
Hmm?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. No. His gushing commentary is long on fulsome praise and short on analysis.
He's into pumping up his guy.

That's fine, and that's why he isn't "behind the iron curtain" of the NYT.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. You are obnoxious. Pump up your gal if she's so special, but don't
condemn someone's opinion. Yours is suspect. :eyes:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Try READING. Where do I "condemn?" I don't.
It is what it is. If you read his columns, they are ENTIRELY uncritical when it comes to Obama. And that isn't "condemning" --that is simply FACT.

:eyes: indeed.

Your assertion that I am 'condemning' comes out of YOUR 'attitude.' Such as it is.

Awfully thin-skinned, you are.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. The Clintons remind me of sloppy lying drunks that overstay their welcome
You've been there. You have a party and somehow people like the Clintons arrive. You and your partner ask if it was them that invited these people.

They are showy, arrogant, sloppy drunks. The guy keeps looking at your partner's breasts when he thinks you're not looking. He brags about shit you could give a rat's ass about. His wife is a blowhole full of stories that make you start humming Springsteen's "Glory Days" in her face. Where the fuck are these people from again?

Then when it's time for people to leave and you put on a John Cage record to scare everybody away, these people stick around and act like they are your new friends. They won't leave until you finally start turning lights off in the room and doing pronounced yawning with your partner together. They get the cue to leave only after they knock over one of your favorite lamps.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Herbert gets it right again. K&R
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. I love you! and I am glad I missed the John Cage music!
:rofl: And damn, that was my favorite lamp! :evilgrin: :mad: :smoke: :eyes: :puke:
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yandorboy Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
13. Does Herbert write anything other than Clinton hit-pieces?
It gets predictable after a while. It\'s like predictable who Maureen Dowd will rip next.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. You missed Frank Rich, another person who doesn't like her.
Perhaps you should try to read them. :eyes: Why might that be? :think:
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. He also wrote anti-Iraq War columns leading up to the War.
What other columns does he bash the Clintons in?
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
25. Oddly enough, Bob Kerrey who in the past had been a critic of the Clintons,
became their friend after Senator Clinton steered more than 46million in Defense Departemtn grants to Bob Kerrey's New School.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. No kidding.
I didn't know that - does not surprise me.
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