Why is Bill Clinton revered and Kerry considered tainted by SOME here?

[angie_love]

I see alot of you praising Bill and bashing Kerry. Whats up with that? Did the republicans swiftboating of him in 2004 work to taint the minds of democrats?

I personally love Kerry, the way he fought courageously in Vietnam and then had the guts to protest against the war warmed my heart. He is a true blue liberal, a generally good guy. The only thing about him was I guess he's not "exciting enough". Not the way Bill was and is.

Bill is exciting I guess but also scandelous. He cheats on Hillary left and right. (Supposedly the NY Post is compiling a list of women hes slept with after he left office to be used against Hillary in the GE, saw this on the news last night) Women should be disgusted by him, but many still love him. I don't get it. He also has a huge ego and seems to only think about himself. What did he do for Gore/Kerry when they were running? Jack shit. He put his ego ahead of the democrats. He praised Bush in 2004 claiming he liked both him and Kerry. He praised Rove when Gore/Kerry were in the same room. I'm upset to see that he praises republicans but yet is willing to rip a fellow democrat to shreds to get ahead. He allowed 4 more years of Bush to happen so Hillary could make a run. If only he were half as passionate about the democratic party as he is about himself and didn't screw us over with Lewinsky gate we would've had a democratic president in 2000. He did some good when he was president, but you have to admit he screwed us over and will screw us over again in the GE. Republicans are already foaming at the mouth with excitement to have the chance to run against Billary. Its the one thing that unites them with extreme glee.

In my view Kerry has more honor in his pinky then Bill will ever have. Kerry makes me proud to be a democrat, Bill makes me ashamed (at least lately).

[jgraz]

1. Hoo boy, here we go

:popcorn:

[neutron]

37. Bill Won, Kerry Lost

by making real bad choices.

[mod mom]

46. Clinton won in '92 w 43% of vote and thanks to Ross Perot's 3rd Party candidacy.

Kerry won but had it stolen. Do you recall any Clinton outrage over the disenfranchisement in either the 2000 or 2004 races? That's because if either Gore or Kerry were to take office, it would have killed Hillary's chances this term and probably for futre as well.

[TeamJordan23]

50. exactly. nm

[tritsofme]

55. Perot winning the election for Clinton is an old GOP lie

Exit poll data showed that voters would have basically split evenly between Clinton and Bush if Perot was not a choice.

Kerry didn't have anything stolen from him, he just managed to lose to one of the worst positioned presidential candidates in a generation.

I have never liked him, he's no sacred cow to me, any more than Dukakis is.

[mod mom]

58. "Kerry didn't have anything stolen from him" Are you frickin kidding? Pls

say you forgot the sarcasm notation!

[tritsofme]

60. No I just left my tinfoil hat in the garbage.

nt

[mod mom]

62. and that politicalization at the DoJ, especially the Voting and Civil Rights Divisions,

they had nothing to do with suppressing large amounts of Af Am voters, right?

If you are poorly informed I will be glad to provide you with material, but if you are content in your ignorance-then I feel sorry for you.

[thunder rising]

2. I have not seen Kerry getting trashed at all. BC is only praised by Hillary's attack goons

[angie_love]

5. ..

Thats what I meant, I mean't that he is praised by some, not most. I should edit that.

[Mojorabbit]

7. I have seen Kerry trashed in multiple threads

and I find it surprising myself.

[aquart]

16. "Attack goons"?

Why aren't you just the sweetest thing?

[neutron]

40. Thanks. I thought in a democracy

you were supposed to campaign for your candidate.

[Bitwit1234]

35. Everyone all over the net tells about the HILLARY HATERS ON THIS SITE

And that they roll over and play dead for the other candidate. Why don't you go surf and see.

[robbedvoter]

3. A successsful president vs a candidate who threw voters under the bus because

he was afraid they'll call him crybaby? I can't think why...:eyes:

[angie_love]

11. ...

Depends on your meaning of "successful".

[MonkeyFunk]

4. Bill Clinton?

Revered here?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[BlueStateGirl]

6. You think Bill Clinton is revered here?

It wasn't until I found this board a few years back that I even knew there were Democrats that didn't like Bill Clinton.

[dkf]

13. After this campaign there are a whole lot more...

[kurth]

8. Kerry didn't fight hard enough after he got the nomination

It should have been Edwards/Kerry.

[Inuca]

15. Sure

Too bad that Edwards won only one primary. But hey, who cares about those pesky voters anyway.

[BeyondGeography]

9. Because many Americans are front runners with questionable taste

no different here.

[denem]

10. Jack Kennedy - If you want cheating, he's your man.

Why this obsession about the Clenis?

[globalvillage]

12. A lot of people here admire John Kerry.

I certainly do. I think he's a hero and a patriot.

[aquart]

14. If Bill can still get it up after major heart surgery, he brings hope to millions.

I'm a little concerned about his nodding off on the podium at that MLK ceremony, though.

But maybe he was screwing sorority girls all night to get the youth vote for Hillary.

Bill Clinton won two elections and survived an impeachment. He stood and fought. And won.

Kerry promised he'd fight and then folded.

[angie_love]

17. but.

He wouldn't have been impeached if he hadn't lied about screwing Monica. So I don't buy that. Kerry should've fought, I'll give you that, but thats no reason the bash the guy and call him a loser as some have done.

[mondo joe]

20. He was impeached because an out of control congress put millions into a witch hunt.

And the impeachment itself was ridiculous.

[denem]

18. If Kerry had fought Ohio, hard

even if he didn't win, he would have brought election fraud to the front page of every newspaper, to the top story of every news bulletin. A simple 'for our nation I can not concede' would have been enough.

He could have won the respect of every person who values their vote. He went with it would be too divisive.

Unity is a bundle of sticks.

[LiberalHeart]

29. Yep, that's what did it for me. Been nice if he at least returned the money we donated for the count

[mondo joe]

36. I stopped donating when he didn't fight the swiftboaters. I was giving $100 a month

plus a bit more if I was really happy with something. But I didn't make a pledge - I gave on a monthly basis if I was satisfied.

I will always remember explaining to the caller that I would not give again until Kerry started defending himself, and by extension, me.

[politicasista]

57. The facts have been posted over and over again about what he DID do

But I understand it's more fun to RESPECT people like ex-DNC charman McAuliffe, whose job was to protect and secure the vote and machines, and a party that should have backed him up on this issue, when they are still silent and Kerry has spoke about this since January 2005 while many of them were silent. It's easier to let them off the hook and give them free passes, while Kerry is suppposed to solve every election problem and fix the voting machines, and try to work with a GOP Secretary of State and a GOP controlled broadcast media all by himself.

Yep. It's much, much, easier to blame ONLY Kerry.

[mtnsnake]

19. Considering you've only been here for 2 weeks, I can understand your mistake. BC is NOT revered here

It's quite the opposite.

[angie_love]

21. Ok

Ok, my mistake then, I've been seeing lots of Billary love posts and bashing Kerry posts. So maybe I'm misinformed. Thats why I asked. So thanks for answering.

[Clintonite]

25. Which is pretty sad! Bill Clinton has done so much for our causes!

Is he perfect? No. But as usual us progressives are our own worse enemy! The attitude and remarks of alot of people on these boards have turned off alot of people.

[mondo joe]

26. If all Bill ever did was to get Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the court, that would be enough

for me to be grateful.

[mtnsnake]

47. Yes he has

I hate to think what might have happened, had he not come along in 92 to re-take the country. The repukes were on a roll, and thank goodness he practically willed himself in and then followed up with a fine 8 years of relative peace and prosperity. Don't even listen to half the innuendo and lies that are spewn here on this forum about the Clintons 24/7. It's either from extremists on the Left who think their issues are the only issues that matter, or it's from rightwing disruptors who have surely infiltrated this board. Welcome to the forum! lol

[soundguy]

22. I can only speak for myself.

I think Kerry is a pussy of a man. When he needed to stand up, he folded like a lawn chair. The swift boaters handed him his ass and he never said shit. Some of us would like to actually win this thing. And a coalition of those who have had their asses handed to them by republicans does not motivate us. When I see or hear him on tv I change the channel. I also have the same problem with Edwards but give him a partial pass as he was the V.P. on the ticket, and seems to have had a change of heart.

I have to give Kerry credit though, he loses gracefully.

[jillan]

23. Because - like it or not - Bill Clinton was the last Dem President to serve 2 terms since ??????

He deserves some respect from other Dem leaders.

It's a classic example of Dems eating their own.

Before I get attacked again for my comment by those that think Kerry walks on water ....
nowhere did I defend Bill.

[MH1]

31. George W Bush also will have served 2 terms

I wonder how many republicans will revere him several years from now.

[jillan]

33. I'm sure they won't beat him up like some of the Dems are doing to Bill.

[mondo joe]

34. Bill Clinton ended his terms with historicaly high approval ratings.

Bush ends his with historically low ratings.

Bush is one of many Repub presidents in living memory.

Clinton is the only Dem to take the WH in over two decades, and the only Dem with 2 terms in longer than I care to think about.

Want to keep comparing?

[ClericJohnPreston]

24. Good grief....

another push poll type thread. Have you Obama supporters ( usually the ones who "revere" Kerry ) ever met a straw man argument you didn't like?

[ShortnFiery]

27. Bill Clinton was "the new guy" in 1992, but now he's soured & after YEARS of defending his, at times

indefensible behaviors, I for one am tired of his "used car salesman tactics" that seemingly he has been reduced to.

If Bill Clinton TRULY cared about The People of the United States of America, he would have resigned his Presidency and handed over the reigns to Al Gore. Now, at the time, I was pissed that the right wing could be so petty. However, when the DNA evidence was in, Bill Clinton continuing to lie to the American People, well ... that's also indefensible.

I have great difficulty, by extrapolation, trusting HRC. They both have proven themselves NOT Trustworthy. I don't believe that *anyone* within The Clintonian DLC of insiders and old guard power political cronies TRULY CARE about AMERICANS. Only their arrogant and self-serving need to hold onto the power of both "The Democratic Party" at all costs. The Corporations-First supporters within Clintonian DLC don't lose if the Republicans win The Presidency. It's all a "WIN-WIN" for The Clintons DLC because it will continue us down the path of neo-liberalism. Corporate Welfare forever with "business as usual" cronies.

[mondo joe]

32. Only in your very narrow little perspective. Bill Clinton maintains significant

popularity with Democrats.

[ProSense]

28. I call it

phony outrage

Agree with you about Kerry.

[MH1]

30. John Kerry is revered and Bill Clinton is tainted

in the world in my head as well as the world of most people I talk politics with.

It may be that I self-select who I talk politics with but hey, at least I know it's more than just me.

And I totally agree with the rest of your op, especially "Kerry has more honor in his pinky then Bill will ever have". Damn straight.

[ShaneGR]

38. 2 term United States President vs Lost election

Just for starters.

[jackson_dem]

39. The same people who love Kerry here swiftboat Clinton and Edwards for doing what Kerry did

IWR
Bankruptcy bill (87-10 along with Leahy)
Patriot Act (98-1 including Wellstone, Kennedy, and Leahy)
No Child Left Behind (91-8, 47-2 among Democrats, including Wellstone, author Kennedy, and Leahy)
China trade (83-15, along with Kennedy and Leahy)

Kerry is rethug clone, just like Edwards, Hillary, Kennedy, and Leahy. Even Wellstone sold out to the DLC cabal on some of them.

:sarcasm:

[smoogatz]

41. There are things to admire about both of them.

Other things, not so much. Taken as a whole, that seems to be DU's general point of view. Clinton ably led the country for eight years, through a time of peace and unprecedented prosperity. What sane person wouldn't jump at the chance to turn back the economic and geopolitical clocks to 1997 right now? Clinton obviously had some great failings, too—not least of which his inability to keep his pecker in his pants at a time when he knew he was the target of a no-holds-barred Republican witch-hunt. Kerry's war service was admirable, as was his decision to oppose the war. I think it's fair to say that Kerry helped to move public opinion against the war, and in so doing helped to bring it to a close. His Senate service has been exemplary if not inspiring, though I'd be hard-pressed to name a sitting senator other than Russ Feingold and Chris Dodd whose service inspired much in me besides horror and outrage at worst, and a sense of embarrassed disappointment at best. Kerry was a weak presidential candidate, though—slow and ineffectual in his response to the swiftboat assholes and too timid to protest the stolen election in Ohio. Basically, what I think you're feeling here is the respect due a winner in Clinton's case, vs the mild contempt some DUers feel for a guy who should've won but didn't seem to understand what he was up against or how to deal with it.

[Zodiak]

42. I like Kerry....a lot, actually

He is/was a great Senator...a true progressive if his fellow Democratic Senators are used as a barometer. He consistently scores as one of the top five senators on my personal scoring chart.

I do not bash him, nor do I find myself in the position of criticizing him very much.

I voted for him in 2004.

As for Bill....used to like him. Now...not so much. Not since I have learned about his wing of the party and what they have done to ineffectualize (is that a word?) our side of the aisle. The People need a political party of their own, not another trough for corporate largesse.

[dailykoff]

43. This place is about half operatives.

That's just my own observation. Don't let them get to you. The rest are gems.

[butterfly77]

44. Kerry and Edwards are weak...

the republicons tore their asses up. Kerry is jumping on the Obama bandwagon because he thinks that everyone else will and he is following the media...

[ProSense]

51. Yet Kerry did something that Hillary couldn't do:

win Iowa!

In fact, this year even Edwards beat her!

Hillary's campaign is all hype and dirty tricks.

[OwnedByFerrets]

45. Bill is NOT universally revered, even by Democrats....nt

[mzmolly]

48. And/or visa versa.

"Bill" turned my formerly "Republican" husband into a far left Democrat. I guess it's a matter of perspective?

[Unbowed]

49. Well-stated.

There's not much more I can add about Senator Kerry except that I wholeheartedly agree. John Kerry is a real leader and a statesman instead of just another bullshit politician who will do anything to win.

Personally, I think our party needs some tough love on the side of integrity. The system is seriously broken when cheaters, liars and scumbags keep coming out on top. The American people are kept in the dark and fed bullshit. And don't look now, but some of the scum trade is flourishing on the Internet and DU is no exception.

We live in a country where everybody knows our President lied us into war and nobody gives a damn. Whenever anyone speaks out in favor of impeachment they are lambasted as a "kook" and they take a nosedive in credibility.

And now our former Democratic President is emulating the successful tactics that Karl Rove used. Remember Clinton's praise for Rove? That was no accident. He admired the tactics of Rove because they worked. Seriously, how can we have an honorable person in the White House as long as we live in a country that rewards any evil as long as it is successful evil?

Now don't think I'm saying Bill Clinton is an evil scumbag. He is not. He was a damn good President and he's still a good Democrat as far as I know. Bottom line is that he's willing to employ the same tactics the vile scumbags use in order to win. This might be smart, but it certainly isn't ethical.

As long as people are willing to accept these kinds of tactics, evil will continue to be rewarded. A prime example is Tom Delay. He was all cleaned up, smiling and being referred to as "Sir" and "Mr. DeLay" in an interview on MSNBC the other day. This man should be behind bars, not being interviewed as a political expert!!!!!!!! And you know as well as I do, if DeLay ever does serve time, he'll be back on the news circuit when he's released, probably touting a best-seller.

We need a fundamental change in our country, a sea change. Until people stop wanting mud, enjoying the slug-fest, change is not going to happen. I admire Howard Dean, Ted Kennedy, Patrick Leahey, Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold, Barack Obama, Wes Clark, Dick Durbin, Christopher Dodd, John Edwards, Al Gore, John Kerry, Dennis Kuchinich and many other fine Democrats. It made my eyes bleed to read the attacks on Russ Feingold just because he doesn't support John Edwards. The accusations of jealousy on Russ's part were really sad.

Supporters who employ attack tactics inadvertently debase their candidate of choice. When I evaluate a candidate or a public servant, I look at their values, integrity, record and their supporters. Yes, their supporters. Are the supporters well-informed? Do they present cogent arguments? Or do they simply whine, insult and make unsupported, blanket statements? It reflects on the individual(s) they support. I take them as not just having an ax to grind, but being ill-informed and less-than-ethical. This information is filed away for future evaluation of the particular candidate or legislator they do support. The company you keep or attract does make a difference.

[travelingtypist]

52. Self-Delete Dupe

n/t

[travelingtypist]

53. Ohio in 2004

I hate John Kerry almost as much as I hate George Bush. Kerry is a
{insert prohibited-on-DU-regarding-Teresa sexist metaphor here}.

[greyghost]

54. Just don't get it do you? Bill WINS! It doesn't matter what...

or who he fucks he's a WINNER, pure and simple.

Kerry has no balls he let the repukes assassinate him!

Case closed.

[juajen]

56. Actually, that's easy.

Bill Clinton is a fighter. Even after complete dogging by pugs and dems he fought his impeachment and eventually, in spite of it, came out on top. OTOH, Kerry promised to fight, and wilted within twelve hours. I did like him at first, but gee, by gosh, by golly, I flip flopped.

[politicasista]

59. Good question and good post n/t

[robbedvoter]

61. Peace & Prosperity vs Dude, where's my vote?