Oh, I get it. Bill signed the China Trade Bill. Since Hillary has no mind of her own. She also

[xultar]

agreed whether she said so or not. Thus, she is being hypocritical with her robo calls because she was married to the guy who signed the bill. And we all know that wives always agree 100% with what their husbands believe in or want because well, lil ole' women folk are to delicate to carry another thought in their tiny delicate little heads because well, they'll just faint and die.

So all you women out there. When your husband does shit. Your are also at fault because you're married to the fucker.

Thanks for helping me out with this DU.

I'd have never figured the shit out on my own because I don't have a husband to tell me these things.

[maddiejoan]

1. Do what I do!

I'm single --so I just listen to any and every man that tells me anything.

[HughMoran]

2. lol

:rofl:

[maddiejoan]

3. You're a man right?

Should I also laugh?

Or is a polite "tee hee" better for ya?

[robbedvoter]

36. I call DU-zie!

[dkf]

4. Now she had nothing to do with anything he signed hmm?

I can agree with that.

Her record starts the day she was sworn into office as Senator.

That is the only thing she can be judged on. No more of this "experience" crap.

So she votes for the bankruptcy bill and for the IWR.

That looks like a record worth running on.

[maddiejoan]

5. Or ya know

you can still look at her experience as First Lady for what SHE did.

[Mother Of Four]

18. Maddie thats the problem though...

First let me state that I respect your positions and opinion, and I'm not trying to change your mind at all. I'm simply pointing out what many people see here.


She's taking Bills experience as her own. If she were running SOLELY on what she did or didn't do that would be different. However she's running on the "two for one" ideal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/21/AR2007122102588.html

Quote
"Both Clintons are making the case that theirs was a co-presidency -- an echo of Bill Clinton's controversial statement during the 1992 campaign that voters would get "two for the price of one" if they elected him. At times, the former president has seemed to cast the current race as a referendum on his administration.

End Quote

Or here...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/opinion/23dowd.html

Quote
"Bill has merged with his wife totally now, talking about “we” and “us.” “I never did anything major without discussing it with her,” he told a crowd here. “We’ve been having this conversation since we first met in 1971, and I don’t think we’ll stop now.” He suggested as First Lad that “I can help to sell the domestic program.”

End Quote


She can't have it both ways Maddie, Either she was a co-president and can run on the experience she's claiming...

Or she was NOT co-president, and can NOT run on the experience she's claiming.

She can NOT cherry pick and only claim the good- the bad comes along with it, this perception was her own doing...no one elses.

[maddiejoan]

27. I see then that she is claiming experience as an advisor

based on exactly what you've posted.

But she has never campaigned as the equal of being a President. She has claimed she has experience in the Whitehouse --and it is a unique set of experience for even a First Lady.

But one cannot blame an advisor for the actions of a President, unless one can demonstrate this was also their position.
Show me some information that shows "Hillary sought to --". For example --Health Care--you can certainly make a case for the failure of the Health Care package on Hillary --though I could also argue that it was great of her to fight such a hard battle.

In that vein --if you are to bring up a bad policy decision of Bill Clinton's and seek to place blame on Hillary for it --then you need more just Bill's decision.

There is only one President at a time.

For example --right now it's Dick Cheney.

[Mother Of Four]

31. I understand what you're saying...

I'll tell you what...let me do a little digging and I'll see if I can find a better example.

Perception is key though in all politics, you have to admit that. One of the rational's behind her political stance is that she will be ready on day one...and that we can't afford someone who needs on the job training etc.

That gives the PERCEPTION that we are talking about.

Bear with me, and I'll see if I can give you a better example.

Btw, thank you for the polite and involved response.

[dkf]

21. As far as I know she was responsible for the Health Care debacle

and she fired all the white house travel employees.

She visited a lot of countries and entertained guests.

What else did she do as first lady? I dunno.

[maddiejoan]

30. Hillary Clinton as First Lady

Then do yourself a favor and read this.

http://mydd.com/story/2007/12/24/14627/196

[mondo joe]

38. The only debacle was that the GOP was so opposed to health care reform.

[xultar]

8. Nope, she's accountable for what SHE did in the WH. Not her husband.

[John Q. Citizen]

15. I hear she was awesome at misplacing her billing records. That should count for something.

[xultar]

23. I'm awesome @ misplacing my shit too.

[DJ13]

6. If Hillary is claiming her "experience" in the WH counts in her favor

Then she has to accept the blame for the (many) bad bills passed by her husband.

[maddiejoan]

7. why so?

You can't judge her solely on what SHE did?

[DJ13]

13. "You can't judge her solely on what SHE did?"

Sure, but she wouldnt have much experience to tout if you exclude everything Bill did.

Tea with the wives of foreign dignitaries isnt a leadership position that pads a resume for being President.

[maddiejoan]

17. yeah okay

everyone knows that's all Hillary did while First Lady.

:sarcasm:

[boston bean]

20. fuck off

[DJ13]

29. fuck off

Thanks for reminding everyone of the true nature of the Hillary campaign!

[boston bean]

32. You're very fucking welcome!

sexist piece of shit.

[xultar]

24. You are exactly why White Liberals are on my last fucking nerve. Wait til lthe Blacklash.

[maddiejoan]

34. Please don't include all "White Liberals"

I like to think I'm one of the good ones ;)

[xultar]

37. True; I shouldn't say all. But I tell you, As a black woman I've been so angry..

I don't remember anyone giving a rat's ass how black voters were going to vote in 2k4 now all of a sudden we are everyone's best friend.

I'm angry.

[maddiejoan]

39. Don't blame ya!

The whole thing is such bullcrap.

I feel for ya.

[John Q. Citizen]

9. So Hill is experienced, just not experienced with the trade bill? That's cool. She can pick and

choose which policies she has experience with and which she doesn't.

She's ready from day one, except on China trade, because that was hubbies doings.

Strong economy during the 1990's? Yes, Hill has experience with that. But not the China trade part.

I'm glad you clued me in Xultar, because I don't have a wife to tell me what part she's experienced in and what part she isn't.

[jackson_dem]

10. Hillary's record is that of a staunch "free" trader. She knows it

She swiftboated by far the most protectionist Democrat running.

[maddiejoan]

11. Did she lie?

[jackson_dem]

14. Did she distort and mislead? Yes. Shame on her

[jackson_dem]

16. Hill can't have it both ways

She can't run on Bill's record and all the good he did, take credit for it and then distance herself from everything bad he did.

[maddiejoan]

19. show me where she actually does this

[jackson_dem]

25. We all know the cute game she has played with the Bill years

[maddiejoan]

28. No we don't

we all know the cute game the media has spun

[John Q. Citizen]

41. When you say we, who are you refering to? Do you represent some group?

[maddiejoan]

42. bring it up with the poster I'm responding to

[gmudem]

12. It is hypocritical

When she claims Bill's experience as her own. And if she's going to criticize the other candidates for supporting it, it's all the more hypocritical when Bill is acting the way he is.

[boston bean]

22. Listen, she did experience living in the white house, heard and lived through

shit only presidents and their wives do.

That does give her experience.

She does not have to be held to every bill he ever signed. That is not what she is claiming.

[xultar]

26. She doesn't claim his experience as her own. If that is what you see you're not really dealing in

reality. You're just making up shit.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

33. Looks like her positions on free trade are a mixed bag

according to this run-down of the positions of the various candidates. She diverged with Bill Clinton on NAFTA when she voted agaisnt CAFTA. But she previously favored MFN status for China.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm#Free_Trade

[LordJFT]

35. Hillary had a chance to separate her positions from Bill's and she's done the opposite

[Auntie Bush]

40. My sentiments exactly!

Also, why the hell can't Hillary have very useful valuable experience in the white house and credit for some of the decisions without being responsible for every single one? Come on women...do you represent and agree with everything you husband says or does OR get no credit when you do? What's this crap/talk about you CAN"T have it BOTH ways? Why the hell not? That's just a nasty/inaccurate meme Hillary haters have started...with no basis behind it.
Here's a little example. Just suppose your husband is a nasty bigot but also donated huge funds to lots of important charities? Are you with him or against him? Bet there would be lots of but, but buts. See what I mean?

[Big Blue Marble]

43. She is running on Bill Clinton's record in the Whitehouse.

She talks about what was accomplished during his terms in office. She reminds us how good it was
back then.

Now you want to argue that when she uses Edward's vote for legislation that her husband
pushed hard to get through Congress that Edwards sold out the voters of South Carolina that is not hypcracy?

Has she specifically rebuked Bill's avid support of China trade policy? Has she even said that she did not
support it? If not, I think it is safe to assume that she agrees with it. I will not accept that she gets it both
ways. She gets to bask in the glories of Clinton I, then she better take the heat for the damage he did,
Or openly disavow it.

The nerve of this obnoxious last minute attack on Edwards. It is made even more unfair by doing it late so
that he cannot respond. It is creepy.