In stronger terms, now: If Edwards does not drop out, Clinton is much more likely to win

[Guaranteed]

the nomination.

I have to repeat that:

If Edwards does not drop out- and throw his support to Obama- CLINTON IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO WIN THE NOMINATION.

Edwards supporters- is THAT what you want? Do you want ANOTHER GODDAMNED EIGHT YEARS OF BUSH/CLINTON BULLSHIT??

Did you learn NOTHING from Nader's 2000 run?

I'm getting sick of fighting with you about this. Start THINKING about what you're doing. Lose the martyrdom and stubbornness, and do the RIGHT thing for the situation we are actually IN, right NOW.

Say it again, to yourself- If Edwards does not drop out, and throw his support to Obama, THERE IS A VERY HIGH LIKELIHOOD WE WILL HAVE 8 MORE YEARS OF CLINTONISM- that is, if we can even TAKE the WH, which is not likely. Is THAT what Edwards wants?

[Catherine Vincent]

1. Go to Hades!

He will not drop out!

[Dogmudgeon]

2. Eight years of optimism and prosperity

The impending nightmare is too painful to contemplate!

--p!

[MercutioATC]

3. Dude, stop living up to your handle...

It's WAY to early to even make this suggestion...even if it were factual. I'm not convinced it is.

[Drunken Irishman]

4. I disagree. Hillary would probably benefit the most from Edwards dropping out.

Obama will continue to slice into white America, but I think he still trails behind Edwards and Clinton, who will split the white vote in many states.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

5. I just made a fresh batch.

:popcorn:

[DS1]

8. w00t!

:popcorn:


I really need to make a 'smilies at the trough' smilie with popcorn.

[Guaranteed]

19. I know, I'm just asking for it here, aren't I?

But I can't help it. I need to get this point across.

[Dogmudgeon]

30. White or Yellow corn?

I had blue popcorn once. What a blast!

--p!

[Honeycombe8]

6. Why do you think that? nt

[DS1]

7. Fuck off

Clinton won't win anyway. Edwards has already pledged support to the Dem Nominee. That's all either of his competition deserve.

[ruggerson]

9. Polls show that more Edwards supporters have Clinton as a second choice

than Obama.

So, your entire thesis is based on fantasy.

[Mythsaje]

10. As long as he's the candidate

bringing up poverty and corporate corruption and the forgotten people in this country, we NEED him there. The Democratic Party needs him there, the country needs him there, and the PEOPLE need him there.

[JI7]

11. i disagree

most Edwards people are likely to support Clinton if he is out of the race.

also, you assume that Edwards has a strong preference between Hillary and Obama. i'm not so sure he does.

[babylonsister]

18. Why would they be likely to support Clinton? This confuses me.

Clinton is the corporatist, Edwards is anti-. How would the Edwards supporters justify that?

[zalinda]

59. Because at least Clinton is a fighter

Obama is a bag of hot air. He will probably fold in the GE. I have absolutely no confidence in him. Every election he has one, was an easy one. His offices were handed to him on a silver platter. If it can't be Edwards, I want someone who at least knows what it's like to campaign hard.

zalinda

[babylonsister]

61. I agree with nothing you wrote, but thanks for answering. nt

[More Than A Feeling]

73. In part because Edwards doesn't just have ultra-liberal high information

voters (potential Obama fans). He also has low info voters who see a southern, white male and think "conservative." Those would likely go to Clinton.

[skipos]

12. If the Democratic party nominates the Clintons, then

they deserve everything it comes with it: the Nader run, the Bloomberg run, the Democrats who choose to stay home, the dirty campaign tactics, the wind sock politics, etc. I will probably vote for the Clintons if they are nominated, but I understand why some won't. It isn't Edwards' fault.

[zalinda]

57. Better get your facts straight

Nader is coming in if Clinton OR Obama get the nomination. Nader thinks they are both bad news. The only way he will stay out is if Edwards gets the nod.

zalinda

[skipos]

60. Hypothesizing about the future isn't "facts"

It is obvious Nader hates Clinton the most, Edwards the least.

We should have a candidate who could survive a Nader run no matter what. Obama and Edwards, who appeal to both Democrats and indies, probably would. Hillary, who is independent repellant and is doing a good job of pissing off Dems too, probably would not.

Regardless, I would be doing cartwheels if Edwards got the nomination.

[zalinda]

63. Nader stated that he would not get in the race

if Edwards was the nominee. Period.

zalinda

[skipos]

67. Please provide me with the quote that backs up your claim

Is it here?
http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn01102008.html

[zalinda]

68. I have no idea, someone posted the article on DU n/t

[MoonRiver]

13. It's up to Edwards, but I think you're wrong about his support going to Obama.

Hillary and Edwards together got 76% of the white vote in S.C. (not RACIST, just the facts). I think Edwards' support would go to Clinton.

But, again, I do not think he should drop out to help some other candidate. That's absurd. He wants to remain a viable candidate as long as he can. He has every right to do so.

[onehandle]

14. Again with this? Go to bed. nt

[Madam Mossfern]

17. Are you a Jewish mother?

What an incredible guilt trip!

Oops this was in reply to the OP.
Sorry.

[rufus dog]

15. Um, they are supporting a candidate that is getting a decent

percentage of the vote. Can he win any state? Maybe not. Can he impact discussion, yes!

[GodlessBiker]

16. I'm not convinced. HRC and JE are the "white" candidates and split a good chunk of that vote.

Obama gets a good but lesser piece of that pie, plus other voters.

The way it stands now, Clinton and Edwards split the anti-Obama vote.

[OzarkDem]

20. Still supporting Edwards

We need to save our party and our country.

[Pirate Smile]

21. I don't think so. He is also taking a portion of voters that would probably

go to Clinton.

Leave the Edwards people alone, please.

[no name no slogan]

22. Could be, but don't forget:

If one candidate does not have enough for the nomination on the first ballot, there's still a chance the other two could do some horse trading, and swing the second ballot to one of the others.

For example, if they go into the convention with roughly 40/40/20 Clinton/Obama/Edwards, Edwards and Obama could team up on ballot #2: Edwards could drop out and release his delegates to Obama. Obama gets the endorsement on ballot #2.

I doubt it will go that far, but Edwards could still end up holding the balance of power in Denver.

[NastyRiffraff]

23. Some of you Obama supporters are pissing me off big time

And I'm not alone. Go ahead, support your candidate; it's your right. Let me support mine. I DON'T CARE about Obama. Got that? I don't care if he's helped or hurt in the primary. I know some Obama supporters like you consider that heresy, or even sympathizing with terrorists, but there it is. Same goes for Clinton.

And I see no indication that Edwards prefers Obama over Clinton or vice versa. Right now, he's running his own campaign, so why the hell should he?

[Kucinich4America]

24. WE DO NOT NEED A FUCKING NOMINEE IN FEBRUARY

If this thing goes all the way to Denver, GOOD.

Let the Clintons get desperate. Let them expose themselves for the frauds they are.

If Obama is WORTH the nomination, he will prevail. If he's not, Edwards will.

The people DO NOT WANT 8 more years of the BushClinton dynasty, but they'll fall for that bullshit, if they are told it's their only choice.

The election is in November. The convention is at the end of August. There is plenty of time to have a real primary season for once.

[Tulkas]

29. Spending money fighting other Dems that could be spent fighting Repugs

We don't Need to end this in Feb, but it would be better for the party. More time to heal the wounds that the Clintons have inflicted.

[Birthmark]

25. "If Edwards does not drop out-..."

... and throw his support to Obama- CLINTON IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO WIN THE NOMINATION."

Tough break. Maybe Obama should try to run a better campaign or something.

[Guaranteed]

31. Tough break for who? Our country? nt

[Birthmark]

32. Yes, Obama is our saviour

Or not.

[Guaranteed]

34. No, it's CLINTON, dammit! She is going to CONTINUE

fucking everything up to holy hell!!!

[Birthmark]

35. And I believe Obama will do anything different...

...why, exactly?

Edwards is the only one who will get my vote. Hillary and Obama can go back to the Senate and practice being Democrats. It's obvious to me that such practice is needed.

[Guaranteed]

38. Because at least he's a fresh face. And he DOES have

a quite liberal, activist record.

And he, like Edwards, seems to "get" that the way things have been done for the past decade or so is just unacceptable.

[Birthmark]

39. I don't think he gets it at all.

I think he just wants to be President. He has a reasonable chance, too. But I expect little to no change if he is elected.

[robbedvoter]

41. Aaah! The fresh face argument! who can argue with that?

[Guaranteed]

47. I think I'm going to scream.

You're just defending.

[merci_me]

26. Oh, come off it!

Nader? He was a third party candidate in the GENERAL. This is a friggin primary and we need to let the people vote. If Hillary wins the delegates, she wins because the voters spoke.

None of the three remaining are "my" candidate and to be honest, John Edwards was my last choice, but why the hell should he drop out for the sake of Obama or anyone else? This is what the primary is about. I've been around for a lot of primaries, sometimes with an annointed candidate, sometimes with a heck of a crowded field, sometimes with a brokered convention. It's the Democratic way and it works just fine. RELAX!

[Two Americas]

27. so insulting

This is so insulting and counter-productive.

How weak must the Obama campaign be that supporters stoop to this?

[David__77]

28. This Obama supporter disagrees.

I think the existing situation is ideal for Obama. I fully support Edwards continuing in place.

[Tulkas]

33. what if Billary offers Edwards the V.P. slot to gain his delegates?

Then we have two weak candidates on the same ticket. Edwards did not deliver any state in '04, not even North Carolina. He won't do the ticket any good in '08 either.


We need a V.P. that can help with Ohio or Florida or the Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona block.


I understand that Edwards has the right to continue as long as he wants to. I just don't see how this is ideal for Obama.

[cascadiance]

71. Obama can EASILY avert this by listening to and adopting some of Edwards message!

and picking up a lot of Edwards' supporters in the process.

I really don't see how Edwards staying in the race affects who wins the nomination *before* the election, other than putting it off until the convention, unless he actually wins all of the delegates in later races. This isn't the general election:

1) It isn't a winner take all scenario for most states in terms of delegates.
2) A candidate can't win before the convention with a plurality of delegates. They need a majority of delegates.

IF folks claim that Hillary will win the nomination without Edwards dropping out and "cost" Obama the nomination that's a false notion. She can only do that if she gets over 50% of the delegates WITH Edwards running. Again, she cannot win with a plurality and not a majority. It gets decided in the convention if noone has a majority. If she gets a 50%+ majority of delegates even if ALL of Edwards' delegates move over to Obama, he STILL loses. You see?

Edwards staying in forces BOTH of these candidates to be more honest to the progressive base of the party. And in a brokered convention will force them to adopt some progressive stances if they want to win the nomination. Or else someone like Al Gore might be brought in instead to unify the party. That is GOOD for progressives in the party any way you slice it!

This is what the DLC gets when trying to ramrod a choice down our throats that doesn't listen to the core base of the party. And folks like me are going to vote for Edwards to make sure this happens! I don't care what the corporate media et al tries to do to try and force me to do otherwise.

[Nutmegger]

36. Never

Regardless of Edwards' fate, I will happily vote for him on Super Tuesday. He is the candidate who has truly earned my vote.

[robbedvoter]

37. Way to get them to support your guy! Bring a bat woncha!

Primaries are ongoing. Candidates, supporters will not be bullied by you or anyone.

[mac56]

40. There is no comparison between Nader 2000 and Edwards.

This is the primary, for chrissake.

And they both need to thank her lucky stars Edwards remains in the race. Any decorum and restraint the two of them are showing is because John is in there, representing the grownup branch of the Democratic party.

Edwards is the best candidate we have. He is the only one who can win in November.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. Ipse Dixt

A theory in search of evidence...

[CorpGovActivist]

43. Are You Basing That on SC?

:shrug:

[bigtree]

44. more punditry

which intends to substitute its judgment for the votes of the majority of the country

[AlCzervik]

45. why can't Obama get those voters on his own?

[cboy4]

46. Much like your thread earlier this morning, this is

another insulting meme.

Not only do I refuse to abandon my support for Edwards, and not only do I *not* want him to drop out -- I do not buy your premise.

All of your capitalization-shouting is a waste of time BullGooseLoony.

[never_get_over_it]

48. I see little to no difference between Clinton and Obama

and I for one AM GODDAMNED SICK of the Democratic party taking the left wing of the party for granted. The longer Edwards stays in the more impact he will have on issues important to me. Comparing this to Nader in 2000 is ridiculously STUPID

Why the fuck should John Edwards give his support to Obama - AND no matter what John Edwards says I'm not voting for either one of these two in the primary because there is simply no difference in my mind. But if I were to pick between the two just on "face" value I'd go with Clinton for experience and substance alone - I'm not interested in playing nice with the repunks or much taken by good speeches short on substance

There was a post somewhere if all this discussion on DU has changed my mind on my vote - and at first I thought the answer was no because I first was a Kucinich supporter followed by Edwards forever but now I see I actually have changed - I dislike both Obama and Clinton equally - but that said I'll vote for either of them in the general - which is also a change because at one point I did not know how I could possibly vote for Clinton....

Your premise that Edwards votes would go to Obama is FLAWED....

[krabigirl]

49. Honestly? I'd actually, only very slightly, prefer her to Obama. Sorry.

[Flarney]

50. You say that as if DU Edwards' supporters actually have a say in whether he stays in...

...kinda ridiculous, isn't it?

[Guaranteed]

51. Well, that's how we talk about everything, here. nt

[deacon]

52. There's no difference between obama and clinton, both represent a shift to the right. Edwards

MUST stay in.

[zalinda]

53. Actually, I would much rather have Clinton than Obama

And, I love the fact that it pisses you off. :rofl:

Go John Edwards !!!!!!!!!!!!

zalinda

[emilyg]

54. This Clinton supporter will send some money to Edwards.

[Bluebear]

55. Good, Clinton is certainly my second choice over Obama.

[Seabiscuit]

56. Geez, somebody get this baby a bottle and put him/her to bed. LOL. nt

[Maven]

58. Every day some Obama supporter tells Edwards' people their candidate should get out of the race

and commit to a more "useful" cause (theirs, of course)--and you think they'd be inclined to support your candidate?

[Barack_America]

62. How so?

Seriously, there are strong indications that Edwards would be the candidate of choice for racist Democrats who won't vote for a black man. You would prefer they vote for Hillary?

In general, I don't see that Edwards draws more from Obama than he does Clinton.

[last_texas_dem]

64. Can you offer any evidence to back up your claim

that Edwards staying in is making Clinton more likely to win the nomination? I can't recall any time in the past when someone making this claim was able to back it up with solid evidence. I'll just say again, as I've said in the past, that all of the Obama supporters trying to narrow the field so quickly need to be careful what they wish for. Edwards staying in could actually be helping Obama; an early exit by him would only help Clinton if more of his supporters went to Clinton rather than Obama. Based on some of the results from the states that have voted so far, there are cases in which Clinton and Edwards supporters seem to have more in common than Obama and Edwards supporters.

[QC]

65. Didn't you already post this very same shit today?

It was pointless this morning, and repetition hasn't helped it.

[IsItJustMe]

66. If I can't vote for John, then it's a coin flip for me right now bubba. Sorry, I just don't

share your passion for BO.

[BlackVelvet04]

69. Great reason for him to stay in the race, then.....

dude, you are really sounding desperate. No faith in your candidate? That isn't exactly the YES WE CAN spirit now, is it?

[kurth]

70. BULLSHIT

Edwards should fight to the end.

[More Than A Feeling]

72. Doubt it. He draws from Obama and from Clinton.

I'll bet you would feel really silly if Edwards dropped out and Clinton gained more than Obama did.

[cascadiance]

74. How? The only difference that Edwards can make is if he wins himself or a brokered convention...

happens as a result of noone winning a majority of delegates.

A plurality of delegates CANNOT win before the convention. If either Clinton or Obama have a majority of delegates before the convention, then Edwards being in or out of the race makes NO difference, you see? If Hillary wins 50%+ of the delegates, even if ALL of Edwards delegates went over to Obama, he'd still lose.

So saying that Edwards staying in allows a different outcome before the convention is a false notion. If Edwards makes a difference, it will either give him the nomination outright, if starts winning the primaries, or will force a brokered convention, where one of these two candidates will HAVE to adopt some more progressive platform stances to get Edwards' delegates. If neither do, then it might also happen that Al Gore gets brought in to be the nominee to reunite the party again. I like any of the brokered convention outcomes far more than Edwards dropping out and not asking anything for the support that would go to either of the other two candidates.

Obama and Clinton supporters simply need to DEAL with it! Unity behind one candidate before the convention this year is simply not going to happen with the divide the DLC has created!