Teddy or the Big Dog?

[jefferson_dem]

Poll question: Teddy or the Big Dog?

[Nimrod2005]

1. Senator Kennedy

[JI7]

2. OBAMA

[Catherine Vincent]

3. What's the question? Who do we prefer?

I like both but I'll go with the man that became president for 8 years.

[jefferson_dem]

7. Who do you prefer? Who speaks for you? Who is "the shizzle"?

:shrug:

[question everything]

59. As opposed to the one who tried to challenge a sitting president

and probably contributed to Obama's hero - Reagan - winning.

Not that I have high opinions of Carter but, really, when one is thinking of the "good of the party" Teddy certainly changed his tune from 28 years ago.

[Beacool]

4. I'll take the twice elected president

over the senator who ruined his chances of becoming president by allowing a young woman to drown while driving drunk. I like Teddy and have defended him over the years, but for him to criticize Bill Clinton on his ethics is frankly laughable. Nothing that Clinton ever did came close to causing a woman's death.

[earthlover]

14. So the Hillary folks are quick to bring up Chipadequik....

I guess the Republicans can take a rest...the hillary herd is doing their work for them!

[emilyg]

34. It's part of him.

I'll take Bill anytime.

[babylonsister]

42. I'll be gentle and not mention the part of Bill I despise. nt

[emilyg]

44. What Bill did - did not cause death.

[babylonsister]

45. I'm not going to rehash what happened. We all know about it.

It's ancient history and was not intentional. Other things were done intentionally and as you've proved, people have long memories.

[emilyg]

66. His actions after the accident were intentional.

[JTFrog]

69. That's fairly debatable, starting with sanctions in Iraq. n/t

[earthlover]

67. It's apparently also part of the Hillary Herd to bash Democrats

The herd tramples everything that stands in the way, even good Democrats

[Beacool]

43. What I'm criticizing is his HYPOCRISY

in questioning Bill's ethics while he and the rest of his family have enough skeletons in their closet to fill two cemeteries. I still remember when one of his nephews raped a girl in Palm Beach, plus many other unsavory incidents that I prefer to keep quiet. Their PB home was not too far from ours, and since we travel in some of the same circles and even attended the same church in PB, I know enough about Teddy, et al. to fill a book. We also saw plenty of their antics on display while summering in Hyannis.

Teddy, I love that you're one of the last remaining true liberals, but STFU!!!

[GoldieAZ49]

24. 1st Diss of Teddy, 1st mention of Chappaquiddik

Everybody take a drink

[jlake]

5. Not sure what the question is. I prefer Bill Clinton. His own man, not dependent on family

connections & he actually became president for 8 years.
That does not mean that I dislike Kennedy or feel the need to trash him.

ETA: Hillary and Bill are a married couple. Neither got to where they are by their families' deep political connections.
i.e. not born with silver spoons in their mouths.

[Barack_America]

9. "His own man, not dependent on family"

What a very curious statement for you to make.

[jefferson_dem]

13. Especially given the poster's avatar and signature pic.

The brutal irony is overwhelming.

[Barack_America]

16. Precisely my point...n/t

[Kittycat]

19. You owe me a keyboard.

LOL

[MADem]

21. Ahhh, so spouses must stay out of it for it to be "fair" eh?

But rich bootlegger daddies--blood relatives-- who launch their kids' political careers, why, that's just FINE.

Talk about BRUTAL irony!!

Either that, or a sad misapprehension of history.

[Beacool]

39. The Kennedys and the Bushes, our two royal families!!!

:eyes:

[jlake]

23. ....

:eyes: I edited my post to clarify. Though I think you know what I meant all along.

[jlake]

25. As is the Kennedy family representing change.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[jlake]

33. There is no irony. Hillary and Bill are a team - they built it together. The Kennedy's

are a dynasty and Teddy was given the keys to the kingdom.

[earthlover]

15. Hillary, on the other hand, is dependent on family....

[jlake]

26. Her husband.... she wasn't put into politics by her polically and business connected

father.

[MADem]

17. He had no bootlegger daddy who married into a Boston political dynasty, became wealthy, and

used his wealth to curry influence, bang starlets, gain an ambassadorship and launch the political careers of his children.

Your seeming lack of knowledge about the history of the Kennedy family makes your statement rather "curious."

[GoldieAZ49]

35. Too much to resist

Right Bill's daddy Drank all the bootleg whiskey, married for politically expedience, banged anything that didn't move fast enough and had his wife keep them quiet for their political well being as they launched their own political career with a scorched earth policy.

Your lack of knowledge about the history of the Clintons makes your statements rather "curious"

[MADem]

36. Clinton never KNEW his father. He was raised, poorly, by a stepfather.

And still, he overcame.

His parents were never in politics.

Real classy, that post of yours. I am going to cut and paste it, to preserve it from any "put down the tumbler of gin and edit" revisions.

In Spain they'd call you "sin verguenza." It suits you.


--------------------------
Too much to resist
Posted by GoldieAZ49
Right Bill's daddy Drank all the bootleg whiskey, married for politically expedience, banged anything that didn't move fast enough and had his wife keep them quiet for their political well being as they launched their own political career with a scorched earth policy.

Your lack of knowledge about the history of the Clintons makes your statements rather "curious"

[GoldieAZ49]

40. Good Idea

MADem Response to Reply #9
17. He had no bootlegger daddy who married into a Boston political dynasty, became wealthy, and

used his wealth to curry influence, bang starlets, gain an ambassadorship and launch the political careers of his children.

Your seeming lack of knowledge about the history of the Kennedy family makes your statement rather "curious."


Too much to resist
Posted by GoldieAZ49
Right Bill's daddy Drank all the bootleg whiskey, married for politically expedience, banged anything that didn't move fast enough and had his wife keep them quiet for their political well being as they launched their own political career with a scorched earth policy.

Your lack of knowledge about the history of the Clintons makes your statements rather "curious"

[MADem]

51. My post contained nothing but truthful remarks. Google Joseph P. Kennedy when you have some time.

Google Gloria Swanson, too.

Here, start with this VANITY FAIR piece, it's a simple enough read for you: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2002/04/joekennedy200204

Joseph P. Kennedy's brief Hollywood reign, from 1926 to 1930—during which he ran three studios, spearheaded the talkie revolution, and created the prototype for the modern entertainment empire—has gone largely unexamined, overshadowed by his founding of America's greatest political dynasty. As newly accessible archives disclose, the Boston financier devastated the careers of two major stars, one of them his mistress Gloria Swanson, in the merciless pursuit of movie-industry fortune. Kennedy became the first (and only) outsider to take Hollywood for a ride, while succumbing to its ultimate seduction. ....Then, after less than five years, Kennedy turned his back on it all, walking away with millions of dollars in his pocket. Hollywood has long been famous for taking outside investors to the cleaners, as Matsushita or Sony could tell you, but, as Betty Lasky, daughter of Paramount co-founder Jesse Lasky, says, "Kennedy was the first and only outsider to fleece Hollywood."

Yet with the exception of his affair with Swanson, the story behind Kennedy's tenure in Hollywood has been blurred and largely left unexamined; dozens of books on the history of Hollywood studios barely mention his name. There are several reasons for this lapse, among them the fact that by the time he died in 1969 Kennedy had accumulated a dizzying list of occupations: stockbroker, bootlegger, the first chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, Franklin Roosevelt's ambassador to Great Britain, real-estate magnate, and father of a president. Moreover, much of what has been previously written about him has been based on secondary sources, contemporary articles he himself was allowed to edit, and stories he planted. These have been repeated over and over through the years. His complex maze of deals has been further obscured because what paper trail he did leave has been locked away for decades. ....

Here's more, from BIOGRAPHY: http://www.biography.com/search/article.do?id=9542623

Rose Kennedy was the eldest child of John "Honey Fitz" Fitzgerald, a prominent figure in Boston politics who served one term as a congressional representative and later became the city's mayor. Kennedy grew up in the political spotlight, accompanying her father to various partisan functions while she was still a teenager. After graduating from high school at the age of 16, she wanted to attend the prestigious Wellesley College but was sent by her parents to Boston's Convent of the Sacred Heart. She later studied French and German at a convent school in the Netherlands. Upon her return to the States, Rose fell for a saloonkeeper's son named Joseph P. Kennedy. Although her father respected the young man's ambition -- Joe Kennedy became the youngest bank president in U.S. history -- he never liked the young businessman and disapproved of the relationship.

Rose continued dating Kennedy against her father's wishes, and in 1914 the couple was married. They had nine children during their 55-year-long marriage. Joe Kennedy became a multi-millionaire financier. He attracted considerable attention with his sometimes questionable business dealings -- he is said to have dabbled in bootlegging -- and alleged philandering. Unruffled by public speculation, Rose immersed herself in the business of raising her family. She schooled her children in the history of the American Democratic tradition and went on to nurture the political ambitions of three sons -- John, Robert, and Edward -- vigorously promoting their careers through grass roots campaigning.



You aren't very knowledgeable on the history of the family, I see. You're rather smug in that lack of edification, too! It's somewhat amusing, if...pathetic.

[GoldieAZ49]

55. I know all the history of the Kennedys

and the Clintons...maybe you should get a bit more knowledgeable....there are several good unbiased books about them.

[MADem]

64. No, you don't. Otherwise you wouldn't have responded as you did.

Your effort at backtracking is transparent AND pathetic. And unconvincing, too.

You also demonstrated, with that post I clipped, that you DON'T know the history of President Clinton's life. If you did, you wouldn't have said what you did.

That's a nice "nervy" post, there--attempting to brazenly pretend that you possess knowledge that you, by your VERY own words, prove that you lack!

Not too clever a tactic, but we will award you a consolation point for both sheer chutzpah and a good laugh.

Have a sandwich:



:rofl:

[jlake]

22. I have updated my post to clarify. Thanks for the spin though.

[JVS]

41. lol

[GoldieAZ49]

28. Well at least you didn't diss Teddy

implying he has not earned his senate seat but had it given to him by his family

oh wait, you did....everybody take another drink!

[jlake]

30. I stated why I prefer Bill. Not that I didn't like Ted.

And why shouldn't I... it takes more to make something of yourself rather than ride your parent's coattails.... but it does not diminish the successes of the privileged.

[GoldieAZ49]

37. but riding your husbands coattails to become POTUS is ok?!?!? Huh, got it!

[jlake]

38. Don't be sexist. Hillary and Bill have worked together for years.

She has plenty of her own achievements.

[GoldieAZ49]

49. 35 yrs to be exact

and they have already had 2 terms in the White House

[jlake]

50. So is she just riding his coattails, or has she already served as president.

... hard to keep up with your train of thought.

[GoldieAZ49]

57. BOTH

is that easier for you?

[jlake]

58. I guess it takes cognitive dissonance to support Obama.

How can she be both riding his coattails and co-president, and how can the Kennedy's, the ultimate party insiders, represent change?

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[GoldieAZ49]

61. Good Grief

Teddy doesn't represent change. Who said he did?

as for the coattails and the co-presidency...it was the two for one presidency (according to Bill) and without him she wouldn't, couldn't be running now on her own

[jlake]

63. If the establishment is embracing Obama, how can he represent change.

....and being part of a working team is not the same as being born into something.

[no name no slogan]

6. Lee L. Mercer Jr.

all three

[jefferson_dem]

8. If we played "which one of these is not like the other...?"

That would be fun.

[no name no slogan]

12. Indeed. Lee L. Mercer Jr. is a statesman and a scholar

I have no idea who those other guys are

[tritsofme]

10. Bill Clinton no question.

[indimuse]

11. this is becoming boarderline insane!

...

[jackson_dem]

18. The liberal lion. His endorsement makes me feel a lot better about Obama

Obama can't be that bad (relatively speaking!) if Kennedy supports him.

[jefferson_dem]

32. Hey there!

:toast:

[JDPriestly]

20. Edwards to the convention and the presidency.

[sandnsea]

27. Teddy is the only progressive choice

He fought against every lousy decision Bill made, including the IWR.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. Gotta Go With The Big Dog Here.

I love Ted and all, but the Big Dog rocks!

[robbedvoter]

31. Big Dog did more for me than Ted will ever do - NLCB - I suffer daily for it.

Or rather my kid does.

[paulk]

46. the Big Dog is far more representative of the mainstream of the

Democratic Party than Ted Kennedy is. In many parts of the country Kennedy is actively disliked as the epitome of northeastern liberalism.

I don't see how his endorsement helps Obama outside of New England.

[BlueStateGirl]

47. Both. N/t

[shawmut]

48. The liberal one

n/t

[babylonsister]

52. Bwhahaha! Again Hillary is ignored! nt

[TriMetFan]

53. Bill is the Man!

And any way because of Ted running against Jimmy Carter in 1980, that helped weaken Carters run for re-election that year when so many Democrats in the party told Ted to stay out of the election. Yes Senator Kennedy has done a lot for the people of the U.S., but that year 1980 he really hurt The Democratic Party. So there is no need to mention or talk about Chappaquiddick, when Ted help screw Carters re-election in 1980.

[karynnj]

72. Even without the Kennedy run, Carter was in major trouble

His poll numbers were lower than Bush I's in 1992 and they didn't look like they could recover. I don't think that Kennedy would have won had he got the nomination, but he would have had more chance than Carter. I know many liberals who voted for Anderson because they were fed up with Carter - that still would have happened if Kennedy would never have challenged him. (Look at 1968 - had RFK not been assassinated, he likely would have won in very inspirational campaign. With RFK the likely victor, I doubt the Chicago riots would have occurred. (Or had they come and tensions rose it Grant Park, I can imagine RFK coming and speaking as he did in Indianapolis in the wake of the MLK killing - calming the anger and channeling it productively. His run would not have happened if McCarthy had not challenged a sitting President.)

[TriMetFan]

73. Kennedy still hurt Carter.

People can spend all they want. The Democratic Party knew Carter was in trouble because of the economy. Some in the Party tried to stop Ted and he would not have anything to do with it. He wanted to be like his brothers and he was still trying to clean his name of Chappaquiddick.

[Buzz Clik]

77. Wow! So, you got both Chappaquiddick and Carter in on one post.

That's a new low for DU!

Do recall, buddy, that the Ford/Reagan bloodbath is what got Carter elected in the first place. Reagan was simply cashing in on his rightful succession. Kennedy pointing out Carter's flaws was not nearly the cheap crap being spewed this campaign.

Keep trying, though.

[TriMetFan]

78. Just keep on trying to spin your spin.

Ted Kennedy didn't help Carter. Also Kennedy didn't just point out some flaws about Carter. That campaign of Kennedy against Carter was a "Bloodbath". Ted went after Carter like a pit bull. So keep on trying to spin your spin.

[jefferson_dem]

54. Teddy doubles up the Big Dog...

Poor fella...

[ShortnFiery]

56. Ladies and Gentlemen, Bill Clinton's *ELVIS* has left the building ... FOREVER! eom.

[GoldieAZ49]

60. Cheers

:toast:

[Colobo]

62. Go Teddy! Gobama!

[Hutzpa]

65. Its the wrong fight Billary,

its the wrong,its the wrong,its the wrong,its the wrong,its the wrong,its the wrong,

its the wrong,its the wrong,its the wrong,its the wrong,its the wrong,its the wrong,

no contest Ted wins hands down.

[semass]

68. Voted Teddy here, Clinton on Feb. 5. (n/t)

[WinkyDink]

70. Democrats chose Jimmy Carter over Ted. He lost influence long ago.

Moreover, he is not a "unifying" figure within the general population.

I LOVE TEDDY, from way back in his young-and-gorgeous days! But his time has passed, and Obama will not carry on his legacy.

It takes more than charisma.

[BeyondGeography]

71. Bill's most memorable line was

"The era of big government is over."

Ted's:

"The cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

Advantage: Ted.

[Arugula Latte]

74. Teddy is a true liberal and has fought the good fight for decades. nt

[realFedUp]

75. I think this is political positioning by Ted

It's a good way to affirm Democratic support for
the new and young voters who are inspired by Obama...
keep them in the race as well as African Americans
if and when Hillary has more delegates...state
and super. It makes sense to me if I look at his support
that way. He is the symbolic and somewhat left leaning
patriarch of the Dem party.
What people ought to be asking is why he isn't supporting
Edwards.

[Tatiana]

76. I'm gonna have to go w/ Teddy for the longevity factor.

No one has worked longer or harder for education, raising the minimum wage, civil liberties, and civil rights than Teddy.