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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:09 PM
Original message
Obama's Supporters vs. Hillary the Candidate
I am not a hardcore politically junky, although some of my friends may disagree. I do not know every angle of the three Democratic candidate's campaigns nor have I witnessed any of the debates. When I pick a candidate to support, I only follow the campaigns peripherally. I come to blogs to scan the headlines to see what information, opinion or rant might interest me. But by this point in the election cycle, my mind is made up. I really cannot imagine a scenario that would change my support from one candidate to another, save my candidate dropping out of the race. However, that being said, even if my candidate, John Edwards, does drop out of the race before my state's primary, I have decided that I will sit out the primary election.

My reasons for not wanting to cast my vote for Hillary remains the same, although she has given me more examples of why I could never vote for her in the primaries. Some of my reasons are due to basic disagreements, such as the flag burning amendment. Others are due to her obvious signs of triangulation, not apologizing, nor seemingly regretting, her Iraq War vote. And now we see her and Bill take off their gloves and say patently absurd statements regarding Obama, Martin Luther King, Jr. et. al in order to better position themselves. I can only hope that if Hillary gets the nomination that this is the worst we will see of her. I hope the responsibility of the presidency will put the fear of God in her and therefore force her to do what is right, not expedient.

However, my reasons for not wanting to vote for Obama have transformed from ones against the candidate to ones against his supporters. I find Obama to be too timid a force to handle the disgustingly vile Republican Party. He, like Lieberman, believes that Democrats have somehow contributed to the politicization of things that should be sacred. Why else would he want to “reach across the aisle” to make peace versus reach across the aisle to slap some fuckin’ sense into those treasonous, selfish cretins. Does he really think the Republican of today knows how to compromise? To approach today’s Republican as if they are intent on fair play places you at a disadvantage, this is why I could not vote for Obama.

Yet, now I have witnessed his DU supporters post the most vicious, angry, uncalled for invective. I know that I could not stand side by side with such people against another Democrat. It is not enough for these people to win a primary; they have to shove it down people’s throats. Sure, Obama has won some delegates, but what the fuck have YOU done to be so high and mighty about it? You must feel really big talking shit because your “team is ahead”. I would claim that it is just the nature of this primary season, but I do not witness the same level of obnoxiousness from Hillary supporters. They seem to be able to keep things in perspective and do not lurk on Edwards posts in order to say something that is supposed to deflate us. I will vote for Obama should he be our candidate, but please understand it will not be because of your disgusting bullshit.

Now do what you do best, flame away. :argh:
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tandem5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. hi.
thats it.
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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. No flames here.
Peace.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. In what election did you EVER vote for a candidates supporters?
Your thread makes zero sense.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Now calm down, don't get your panties in a bunch
Since it is the primaries we are talking about, I would be aligning myself with a candidate's supporters. I would not want to be placed in the same category as an Obama supporter, at this point in time. The General Election is another story, Republicans are the anti-christ.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Then what is the point of this thread?
It's a very poor tack to go after a candidates supporters as a litmus of the candidate themselves. For ANY campaign. Do we have to do this?
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. My hope was to signal
that abusive posts do not sway people to vote for someone, but can in fact do the opposite. Unless the abusive posters are not trying to sway votes, but to just be mean, then this post was indeed useless. Thanks for your reply.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think it's because a lot of them are very young
so give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure I was more of a jerk before I became a crabby, late forties codger. :)
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Okey dokey nt
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. You dislike Hillary's triangulating and absurd statements
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 11:19 PM by sandnsea
and then dismiss the notion that they had anything to do with the polarizing atmosphere in DC. Do you not get the disconnect there?

Obama is beating both Clintons. Chicago ain't beanbag. He can hold his own.

And some of us have noticed the long trend of Edwards' supporters bashing Obama because they thought their only hope was to run him out of the election. I would vote for Edwards as a candiate too, but it would not be because of the disgusting bullshit of some Edwards' supporters either.


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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Thanks for the reply. n/t
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sfam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Note to ejbr: If you're on DU, you're probably a hardcore political junkie...
I'm just sayin...
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smokey nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well said!
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. I see basically the same thing
The Obama camp has been endlessly attacking the Clinton's, but winces and cries, 'boo hoo!' at the slightest criticism of Obama. He is playing the victim card. His camp doesnt even bother discussing the issues any more, instead seeking sympathy. He knows the whole situation is a mindless media frenzy, but he chooses to play along anyway.

For all of Hillary's faults, she has always been able to take it on the chin and has done so for the last 15 years with little complaint. Obama, apparently, has a glass jaw. The republicans and the media will eat this guy alive in the general, if he is the nominee.
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cloud75 Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. kick...from a person leaning Hillary and part of the reason is because of Obama
supporters on DU their arguments are laced with anger and "disgusting bullshit."
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Agree 100%.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. Whatever floats your boat!
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. Obama is ahead?
I thought they were two for two, since Michigan doesn't have any delegates.


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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Depends if you are counting
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 12:35 AM by lurky
Most regular delegates: Obama
Most regular + super delegates: Clinton
Number of states where they won the most delegates: Obama
Number of states where they won the popular vote: Tied

There have been some really fun threads about this -- If by fun you mean flamethrowers on full blast...
:):):):)

edit: Ooops, typed the wrong thing.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hillary has taken this crap for the past 16 years.
She has said very little about it. Obama gets a little smack here and there and he starts to cry.
The Obamites are anything but gracious when Obama wins. They are even worse when Hillary wins.
:puke:
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
16. that's like not liking a band because the fans piss you off
I know many people who used to turn their noses up at Phish fans, or emo fans, or white kids who liked rap. They would go on and on about how much they can't stand "those kinds of fans" and therefore hated that band or type of music.

The truth is, if you really like a band, you don't give a fucking shit about the other fans. You buy the albums, you go to the concerts, you wear their t-shirts because you like their message (the music) and you like what they represent.

You just don't like Obama. That's fine, but blaming his supporters for you not liking him is beyond weak. Blaming a bunch of anonymous faceless entities you've never met and never will meet for souring you on a candidate is just insane.

If you met any of us face to face, it's doubtful you would have such a negative opinion of us. That goes for every other candidates supporters too.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I am only one person,
my vote really is not so important. However, it's mine and I would rather not encourage his supporters behavior by giving him my vote in the primary if given the opportunity. That's all. Thanks for your reply.
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. again I have to disagree with you
your vote is really, really important. if you're on this board that means you care and it means you've taken the effort to educate yourself about politics and our government. that's more than can be said for 80% of the adults in this country. an educated voter's support is very valuable indeed.

I'm not a big fan of Hillary's supporters either, but I don't really factor them into my equation of the primaries. Edwards' supporters are by and large pretty decent, but that may have more to do in that he's not running closely to the the leading candidates. Things get nasty once it gets neck and neck...
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Point(s) taken n/t
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
17. It is funny...for all of the positive things Obama says...
about hope and unity and believing, I don't see it in many of his supporters. Instead, I see anger, vindinctiveness, and a "you're either with us or against us" mentality that is frightening to me. That's not why I don't support Obama (I don't support him for the same reasons you do), but it's something I've noticed.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
18. newbie experience of du
obama supporters attack clinton supporters. clinton supporters attack obama supporters. edwards supporters attack anyone that does not absolutely agree with everything they say and drive any debate out of their posts. they apparently just spend all day recommending the posts that support their candidate and beating up anyone who dares to enter these posts with a differing opinion.
can anyone recommend a site with a better agenda?
i just want the democrats to win this time.
and i find this experience on du to be really disheartening.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I'm sorry you are having such a bad first experience.
As you may have already been told, this primary season is completely different than previous ones. Usually DUers are considerate of other people's opinion. You may want to try dailykos.com where the members take their politics very seriously and are always challenged to back up statements with links to appropriate web sites, etc.

I was remiss in not taking any Edwards supporters to task for any abusive behavior, which I am certain exists. Anyhow, I must stress that this primary season is extremely different and that we normally don't behave so abhorrently.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Thanks!
I have been told that things have really degenerated during this primary season. But, wow! This does not look good at all and I suspect that the Republicans are just loving this infighting. I am very hopeful that as the race becomes clearer or once we have chosen one of these excellent candidates, we will stop all of this. I will check out dailykos and will try to stay out of all of this bickering (which can only be accomplished by not expressing any support for any individual apparently).
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Tulkas Donating Member (592 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
20. TO TIMID ?!?! You need to go visit south Chicago, then call him timid
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. I will admit
that I may have the wrong impression of Obama. For all I know, he will place some Republican balls in a vice when appropriate. However, I have yet to hear it from him.
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. yeah he wasn't TIMID about keeping his hand out to his scumbag slumlord friend while
slumlord's tenants froze to death
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