Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants - Obama should stay the hell away from this wedge issue

[Seabiscuit]

This I believe is not a good move for Obama. I've seen what the repukes can do with the selling of fear and the spectre of illegal immigration in my own district. Here is an excerpt from a San Francisco Chronicle article discussing Obama's tactical move to make inroads with latino voters in California/Colorado etc. I personally think all of our candidates need to stay away from this because in the GE that's all we'll hear other than the real issues.

"Sen. Barack Obama easily won the African American vote in South Carolina, but to woo California Latinos, where he is running 3-to-1 behind rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, he is taking a giant risk: spotlighting his support for the red-hot issue of granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. It's a huge issue for Latinos, who want them. It's also a huge issue for the general electorate, which most vehemently does not. Obama's stand could come back to haunt him not only in a general election, but with other voters in California, where driver's licenses for illegal immigrants helped undo former Gov. Gray Davis."

"Democratic pollsters Stan Greenberg and James Carville issued a direct warning on the driver's license issue in an analysis last month designed to guide Democrats through the treacherous immigration quagmire.
"The findings about driver's licenses are particularly notable," they said. Two-thirds of surveyed voters oppose them, the pollsters found, and the safety argument fails to dent the widespread conviction that granting a driver's license rewards illegal behavior."


There is a lot more in the article and its quite interesting.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/28/MNH1UL57Q.DTL

[ecstatic]

1. I agree!! nt

[UALRBSofL]

2. I have to agree

But, since it's out there I wonder if it will come up in the debate?? Just curious.

[DBoon]

3. sad but true

I'm sure he can find other ways of reaching out to Latino voters that do not wave a red flag in front of right-wing xenophobes

[adabfree]

8. I'm no right wing xenophobe

and giving licenses to illegal aliens is a red flag for me...and I support Barack!

[Occam Bandage]

4. Handy response sheet for Obama on the issues:

1. "Obama needs to stop ducking issues!"

2. "Obama is proving he's a right-winger in disguise!"

3. "Obama is stupid to take a liberal stand on such a wedge issue!"

[MNDemNY]

5. By all means, take no stand on issues.

He's good at that. We need a candidate that is ready to not make the tough decisions. Barack IS that candidate. gobama!

[HopeforChange]

6. Obama is smart. He is campaigning smart. n/t

[MNDemNY]

9. Of course. Dodging issues, taking vague positions.

Gooood campaign. gobama

[pampango]

14. Are you suggesting that he should triangulate on the issue of

drivers licenses for illegal immigrants. Take a position on a contentious issue, then, in the face of contrary polling data, change his position.

I think illegal immigration will be a big issue in the GE. The Republicans don't have much else to run on. I don't know that the best way for us to deal with that is to go Republican-lite and adopt their positions.

[MNDemNY]

15. No, i think he should just take a stand. His stand. If he has one.

[pampango]

18. We shall see, but apparently he does. n/t

[adabfree]

7. Agree

driver's licenses for illegal aliens is a NO NO!

[bigdarryl]

10. So he's supposed to do what Hillary did I was for the driver license before i was against it

well thats smart politics

[goodgd_yall]

25. She never said she was for it

She was making a nuanced argument and it was misunderstood. Obama has done the same. You can't "nuance" apparently in campaigns because the media and the public are wired for sound bytes.

[bigdarryl]

28. BULLSHIT !!!!!

[goodgd_yall]

30. She never did

She was commenting on another plan saying she understood why one might want to give licenses to illegal immigrants. It was a mistake of making a rhetorical argument in a debate when anything that is a suggestion that you support something is jumped on a used as ammunition. Obama's Reagan remarks are in the same vein, although his remarks were made outside a debate. He was speaking in a nuanced way (although I think he was deliberate in not making a value judgment on Reagan) and now it is repeated as "he praised Reagan."

[Seabiscuit]

39. You're right. She got in trouble for not answering the question, no matter how

many times it was repeated. She equivocated over and over. As a result, she also got in trouble for not emphatically condemning Pataki's proposal. Pataki bailed her out between the debates by publicly renouncing his proposal, and Hillary was of course hit immediately with a question about it in the next debate, where she showed she'd learned her lesson by very tersely and emphatically condemning the idea.

[Baclava]

11. It reeks of a desperation move

"...to woo California Latinos, where he is running 3-to-1 behind rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, he is taking a giant risk: spotlighting his support for the red-hot issue of granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants."

He's stepping in a big puddle of poo.

[BeyondGeography]

41. He favored it as a state legislator in Illinois as well

so there goes that theory.

[krabigirl]

12. Yeah, I agree, although I like that he supports that issue. However, most don't agree.

[tularetom]

13. A drivers license is not a fucking privelege for crissakes

I don't understand the argument that we are somehow doing a favor for illegal immigrants by granting them a driver's license. I'd love to be able to drive around without a license. It is an imposition on personal freedom and I don't see why I can't have the same right as an illegal immigrant to not have to have a license.

I don't think anybody should be forced to have a drivers license immigrant or not.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. I heartily disagree.

They are out there. They are sharing the road with me every day. I want to know that they have passed a driving test before getting behind the wheel of a car.

Xenophobia should not overcome traffic safety.

[adabfree]

17. AMEN

[Mike Daniels]

33. I think it's simple - no insurance / no license

Even if you pass your written and road test with flying colors people still get careless and mistakes still get made. If you are going to be given the privilege to drive a car you better prove you can pay for damages/medical bills should you ever been responsible for an accident that results in property damage or human casualties.

And truth be told, if you can afford to pay for a car along with the repairs and gas needed to get around you can probably afford insurance.

On the flip side, if you have insurance then you should be able to apply for a license regardless of your citizenship status.

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. Oh, now, that's just too reasonable. nt

[candice]

19. Some people will do anything to get a vote, but sometimes it backfires!

[pampango]

22. Who are you referring to by "some people."

Hillary for waffling on the issue than coming out on the side that is most politically popular. Or Obama who is, at least so far, sticking to a politically unpopular position regarding the drivers licenses for illegal immigrants. I believe the point of the OP is that Obama is being advised to make the same switch on the issue that Hillary did, in order to win votes.

[Baclava]

26. You think this will backfire on him?

I don't know how California voters stand on this....just curious.

[sandnsea]

20. Non-citizen licenses

That's what Oregon's governor has proposed and it's a good solution. Obama needs to stick to his views, that's the most important thing.

[mckeown1128]

21. I agree...nt

[hayu_lol]

23. When one plays fast and loose with the English language...

your meaning is unclear. There are no 'illegal immigrants,' they are illegal aliens. Illegal aliens are not one specific kind of people, they come from every nation on earth.

And yes, I would prefer that even illegals who will be driving to at least have a license. We know they will be driving. With a license, they at least have some ideas of the rules and that protects all of us on the road.

[goodgd_yall]

24. I was just reminded of Obama's stand on this

in my local paper. That would be a BIG target for the Republicans to attack on. It could lose us the GE if Obama is our nominee, since the illegal immigration issue is (unrightfully so, IMO) a hot issue with many Americans. I like Obama's stand---it's a "public safety issue," but many voters don't like it at all.

[Barack_America]

27. Agreed. But the economy and Iraq would still trump that issue. n/t

[goodgd_yall]

29. I'm not sure about Iraq trumping it

I think Americans have been lulled into a sense that everything is OK there now. Obama would have to remind them of the cost each day to continue our occupation. But, the economy and what the Democrats plan to do about it compared to McCain or any other Republican---you would think voters would see the wisdom of rolling back the tax cuts.

[rodeodance]

31. HA ha--thats a good one--telling O. to hide.

Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants - Obama should stay the hell away from this wedge issue

This I believe is not a good move for Obama. I've seen what the repukes can do with the selling of fear and the spectre of illegal immigration in my own district. Here is an excerpt from a San Francisco Chronicle article discussing Obama's tactical move to make inroads with latino voters in California/Colorado etc. I personally think all of our candidates need to stay away from this because in the GE that's all we'll hear other than the real issues.

[Seabiscuit]

32. Fair warning: what happened in the 50th District in 2006.

Francine Busby won one of the early rounds against a group of Republicans in the spring of 2006. Then somehow Brian Bilbray survived the GOP sharkfeeding and emerged as her contender in the general election.

Bilbray became the only one-issue candidate I've ever seen. He merely regurgitated all the extreme right-wing talking points about "illegal aliens". That's right. He didn't talk about "immigration". He talked about "illegal aliens". Anyone who didn't toe the extreme Repuke line was hammered as "favoring amnesty for illegal aliens".

Bilbray refused to discuss *any* other issues. He also refused to debate Francine anywhere, anytime. Francine had weekly radio broadcasts discussing a host of issues, and even appeared on Tweety's "Hardball". Didn't matter.

So how did Bilbray win?

Francine mis-spoke once at a rally - ONCE - and answered a question from a Repuke plant about what illegals could do - they couldn't vote because they didn't "have papers". Francine mis-spoke by saying "you don't need papers to vote", then immediately corrected herself. Didn't matter. Of course, there was another Repuke plant in the audience who had a tape recorder running, and that tape got replayed over and over and over and over again on all the AM hate-radio stations, on all the local TV stations, and the transcript was published in all the local papers. Of course, her immediate correction was omitted. The GOP even paid for newspaper ads smearing Francine over this mis-statement.

Result? It brought all the wingnuts to the polls and Bilbray won in a landslide.

Anyone who thinks Obama can get away with taking a stand favoring drivers licenses for illegal immigrants in the general election is in for a rude awakening - and if we're all dumb enough to make someone who's doing something as dumb as this our candidate in the general election - then we will lose the election to another Repuke on this issue, and this issue alone. It has become the sole lightning rod that unites and activates all the right-wing crazies out there and drives them to the polls.

[UALRBSofL]

34. Most people aren't happy

That undocumented people are here in the first place and to give them a drivers license in addition isn't a very popular idea. Who knows how it will play out but I have a feeling when the question is asked in the upcoming debate I want to know how Barack will answer.

[Seabiscuit]

36. I do too, because I'm completely aghast that he stepped into this mud. Hillary

made a similar mistake during a debate when refusing to clearly repudiate Governor Pataki's possible proposal about granting drivers licenses to illegal immigrants in the state of New York. There was such an uproar in the MSM that very soon after, in the next debate, she in very few words came out strongly against it, after Pataki himself had given her some assistance by personally and publicly withdrawing the idea.

Hillary learned her lesson fast.

Obama was on those same stages. Was he asleep when all this happened? WTF could possibly be possessing him now? NO Democrat should EVER bring up this subject during an election campaign. When pushed, Edwards made it clear what his position was on illegal immigration, and the first thing he said about it was he was strongly against issuing such drivers licenses.

Having witnessed the bloodthirsty right-wing feeding frenzy here in San Diego over the Francine Busby flap (I worked on her campaign, and practically had a heart attack when she uttered those words) I cannot imagine any Democrat in his or her right mind falling into that trap at this late date.

[DrFunkenstein]

35. Hillary Clinton May Have Lost The Campaign On This Issue

It was her flub that suddenly allowed the media to print something about her other than the "discipline" of her campaign. Remember those days? Discipline is hardly the word I'd use now for the campaign they are running.

[Seabiscuit]

37. See #36. She learned her lesson fast. Obama apparently hasn't learned anything yet

about this, and if this is all I knew about him, I'd consider him the dumbest candidate in the history of the planet.

[Seabiscuit]

38. I should add that I disagree with one sentence of this article:

It says: "It's also a huge issue for Latinos, who want them."

Here in California, at least it is *not* a huge issue for Latinos. At least half (probably most) of the Latinos in California here legally and eligible to vote do *not* want special privileges given to those who snuck across the border and got here without going through what they had to go through. And the illegal aliens, of course, the only benefiaries of such a policy about drivers licenses, don't vote because they can't.