If you've changed your vote from Edwards, you've fallen for the rhetoric...

[JuniperLea]

Hook, line and sinker... and there was no real tangible bait.

I'm voting for Edwards because I agree with him ON THE ISSUES!!!

I'm voting for Edwards because in my mind and in my gut, a vote for Clinton or Obama means more of the same bullshit corporatism we've been trying to change.

I will support whomever gets the Democratic nomination, but the race has only just begun. Don't sell out! Don't fall for the rhetoric! Don't fall for the mind-f***!!!

[CreekDog]

1. Please don't tell me why I do what I do

You don't know me, you don't know what I think or how I weigh my decisions.

And this isn't helping the good man that you are supporting either.

[SammyWinstonJack]

11. Ditto! See how that feels? Not so good, right?

Don't tell us how we are helping or hurting our candidate, when you Hillary Obama supporters are saying that Edwards is a "spoiler" and should drop out, or how we are wishing for "magic ponies" It is insulting, isn't it?

[CreekDog]

16. I didn't do that to you and if you don't like it, don't do it to me

I think Skinner once said, if you don't like the BS, how about not contributing to it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. I'm not doing anything to you.

[CreekDog]

20. yes you did, read your OP

you made broad brush statements about supporters of other candidates and those statements are wrong about me. then you said you don't like being talked to that way either.

hypocrite.

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. Read yours and I didn't start this thread. You jumped in first. I was just replying to your post.

Nice try though. LOL "hypocrite" I think you resemble that remark.

[CreekDog]

34. i thought you were the OP, my mistake

you aren't the hypocrite, the OP is.

[JuniperLea]

22. Unless you switched your vote

You are speaking out of turn.

If you have switched your vote, and you disagree with my OP, then how about some details instead of rhetoric?

[CreekDog]

26. I have switched and I don't have time to engage with you on this right now

And since your post is about what my motivations are, I don't need to validate my choice by proving you wrong at this moment.

Go jump in a lake.

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

39. So, you have time to belittle and condescend...

But no time to actually discuss the issue at hand.

Keep your lake to yourself... your rudeness tells me everything I need to know.

[Maddy McCall]

2. Eeep! Pardon my dyslexia.

:blush:

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. That person switched from Edwards to Obama.

:crazy:

[JuniperLea]

23. ???

???

[GalleryGod]

3. MORE "rhetoric"

There was another time, when another young candidate was running for President and challenging America to cross a New Frontier. He faced public criticism from the preceding Democratic President, who was widely respected in the party. Harry Truman said we needed “someone with greater experience”—and added: “May I urge you to be patient.” And John Kennedy replied: “The world is changing. The old ways will not do…It is time for a new generation of leadership.”

So it is with Barack Obama. He has lit a spark of hope amid the fierce urgency of now.

I believe that a wave of change is moving across America. If we do not turn aside, if we dare to set our course for the shores of hope, we together will go beyond the divisions of the past and find our place to build the America of the future.

My friends, I ask you to join in this historic journey -- to have the courage to choose change.

It is time again for a new generation of leadership.

It is time now for Barack Obama.

[bellasgrams]

12. B O just hasn't got it. He's not knowledgeable enough

if he is he should get up there and talk about the constructive things his done, what he's going to do about all the laws and bills past by his mentors, the Repb party, that have hurt our country. I don't know how any dem could vote for a man that admires RR. Sick, sick, sick.

[ShadesOfGrey]

4. I'm with you Juniper! I'm not falling for it either.

:thumbsup:

Edwards all the way!!!

[halobeam]

5. Change my vote? yikes!

No way. Edwards is the right candidate for me. I don't believe any media.

My eldest son just got back home from his Dad's and they weren't even aware Edwards was running, they couldn't believe my son was right about the media and the lack of coverage... He had to prove it to them. When he did, they were very angry.

Seems another "independent" family has someone that speaks for them, they were so relieved, because they weren't going to go vote until they heard this.

[Generator]

6. Or they've fallen into the emotion or the hero worship

of a Kennedy. Which is understandable BUT as much as I like Ted Kennedy-and I actually like Robert Kennedy Jr. much more-I was wracking my brain-didn't he endorse Clinton earlier-I think I read he did-liking someone else is not enough for me to change my vote or even my mind. I guess I don't have any more heroes-not Kerry, not Bill Clinton, not a Kennedy-not a Gore-not a Jackson-not a Kucinich-all great men certainly but everything I've read about Obama has not convinced me he is better than Edwards. In fact, I don't find Obama substantially better or even much different on the issues than Hillary.

Obama is so damn likeable-I wish it was another time in history. America needs a black president-something that I think is actually more important than a woman president-especially one that road the coatails of her husband to power.

I'll vote for him in the general-but I don't think he has the right stuff to beat the corporations and Republicans that he is so eager to reach across the aisle to. They will eat him alive.

[JuniperLea]

28. I hear you...

Remember, GWB was the guy everyone wanted to have a beer with. Like-ability isn't a good reason to vote someone into the office of POTUS!!! Far from it! In reality, many extremely brilliant people just don't have the charm and charisma, but they would do a far better job at getting past all that stupidity and would do the right thing as president.

People are so confused... seriously confused.

Whenever I see someone saying they are "inspired" or they get "goosebumps" from one candidate or another, I get goosebumps myself... no, chills! You know, the kind you get when the hairs on the back of your neck stand up because you just got the bejeebers scared out of you?

:scared:

[Dawgs]

7. An Edwards supporter telling others not to fall for the rhetoric is pretty f***-n funny.

Maybe one of you guys can show me what Edwards has done that HASN'T been rhetoric.

[madmunchie]

21. Exactly, what else does JE have????? Other than rotten votes???? No record to be proud of

All of the JE supporters say is JE "says, speaks, voices..." because they cannot point to his actions as in VOTES to support him.

[JuniperLea]

29. Ummm... how about...

trying to get the other candidates to stick to the issues?

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. K&R!

[MorningGlow]

9. Nevah!!

Clinton or Obama can have my vote when they pry it from my cold dead hands! EDWARDS! EDWARDS! EDWARDS!...

On edit: Random loose letters...

[MonkeyFunk]

10. ah another one of these

If you don't agree with my decision, it's because you're ignorant, uneducated, stupid, deceived, not a real democrat, a paid shill, mentally or morally defective, a closet freeper, a racist, a sexist, a paint-eater, a media dupe, blind, a chickenshit or a Rovian plant.

Sometimes people just disagree with you. How do you get through a normal day when you encounter people with opinions that differ from yours?

[JuniperLea]

30. You need to read again...

This is a very specific discussion. It's not about my candidate against your candidate!! Get with the program! Read again! This is about someone who used to support my candidate and has changed their mind for other reasons.

Jeez... you could cut the hubris with a knife around here.

[MonkeyFunk]

35. You need to read MY post again

Your OP suggests that if I'm not supporting Edwards, I've fallen for something.

It's a common theme here, and an insulting one.

[JuniperLea]

40. Read again, MF

That is NOT what my post is saying... I'm saying if you are changing your vote from Edwards at this point in the game because of...

Oh, forget it. You just can't read I guess.

[redqueen]

13. This is a parody of Russ' slap at Edwards, right?

:P

[JuniperLea]

31. "ZOOM"

That is the sound of your comment going right over my head, redqueen!

:silly:

'Splain? Please? I want to get the joke!!! Dee dee dee... hahahha.

[redqueen]

33. I meant cause Russ said Edwards' supporters were being "taken in"...

and that seems to be the converse of what you're saying here...

And FWIW I was quite offended at Russ's implication that Edwards' supporters were being suckered, and I doubt many Edwards supporters who have jumped ship would view this much differently.

[JuniperLea]

46. It depends on the reasons behind jumping ship...

If it's related to issues, then you are voting your conscience, and that's all I ask. If it's because you think he's unelectable, or he can't win against a Republican (must be the weirdest thing I've read here, since there's not a snowball's chance a Republican will win the general), or because someone else is charismatic or gives you chills... any reason other than the issues.

[redqueen]

47. Agreed on that. There's these things called "delegates"...

amazing so many don't seem to get that.

[JuniperLea]

48. Exactomundo, my dear redqueen!

This is not a "popular vote" system! This is the time to vote our conscience, and I really don't care which Democratic candidate is nearer your ideal in the issues, as long as you vote for the person who IS closest to having the same ideals in the issues. That's all that matters in this stage of the game.

[GodlessBiker]

14. I'm an Obama supporter, but it is way too early for an Edwards supporter to change their vote.

[JuniperLea]

38. Thanks for getting it, GodlessBiker!

You get it! You totally get it! We may not agree on candidates, but we agree on how a primary should be voted!!!

[bpeale]

17. i, for one, will not vote for the nominee if the issues i need are not there

then the dems can kiss my ass

[Triana]

18. If you've changed your vote from Edwards...

..you've swallowed the media jizz and let them choose your candidate for you. And of course they want you to choose the best one...
..FOR THEM.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

41. Keep your foul mouth to yourself

You obviously don't get it, so why not just leave things alone?

[JuniperLea]

43. Yep!

No coverage at all, not even when Edwards tried to get Obama and Hillary to back off from the hair-pulling long enough to engage in conversation about the ISSUES!

The only time Edwards is mentioned in the media, or here on DU, is to say he's not "electable" or some idiocy. This is a primary election. This is the time to vote one's conscience, not to follow the crowd.

[goodhue]

53. It was not the media that voted in IA, NH, and SC

Certainly the media ignored Edwards unduly for many months. And I wish Edwards had won in those states. But he didn't. And now he will not be the nominee IMHO. So I've moved on. I've not swallowed shit.

[JuniperLea]

61. The delegates have not yet spoken

And Super Tuesday is still to be seen.

It's not over till it's over!

[Mags]

24. I'm with you.

I will stick with him as long as he sticks with us!!

[BlackVelvet04]

27. I'm an Edwards supporter and I

don't think this kind of post is helpful.

[JuniperLea]

50. You don't think telling people to vote their conscience in a primary

is helpful?

Please explain. If I'm wrong in this, perhaps you can edify.

[Yael]

36. I am with Senator Edwards until he tells me otherwise because I believe in supporting

a candidate, not voting against one.

[sandnsea]

37. Edwards does not have the record

Obama is the one with the record on the issues

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4239973&mesg_id=4239973

and the true progressive plans for the future.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4247824&mesg_id=4248817

[JuniperLea]

44. Then he should talk about the issues...

Instead of falling for the cat fighting.

[sandnsea]

45. He does, that's how I know he's progressive n/t

[Howardx]

49. i hope he can spare some of that "change"

when im forced to panhandle outside the whitehouse due to his corporatist policies.







go team x!!

[sandnsea]

51. Like real health care for all

that won't force you to choose between premiums and food?

Or a plan for real economic assistance to include people on social security and the lowest income workers?

Or a Green Job Corps to help disadvantaged youth?

Or doubling the pubic transportation funds?

Pegging the minimum wage to inflation?

Eliminating taxes on seniors income under $50,000??

I mean come on, what corporatist policies are you talking about?

[Howardx]

54. gimme a break

how is he going to accomplish that? all the things you mention need to go through congress, obama can say he wants to do those things but it isnt up to him ultimately. get your head out of dreamland man.

[sandnsea]

55. Then Edwards can't either, what a stupid response n/t

[Howardx]

56. who said anything about edwards?

maybe you ought to learn a little more about how the govt works before you vote.

[sandnsea]

57. Maybe you do

The President sets the agenda and tells Congress what he/she will won't sign. What are you pissing about if you don't even support a candidate anyway.

[Howardx]

58. so youre saying obama will govern like bush does

looking forward to that.

[sandnsea]

59. Bill Clinton shut down the government

Every President lays out his agenda and uses vetoes and the bully pulpit to advance his agenda. What the hell is the point of having a President if they didn't?

Don't type something else stupid because I won't answer another stupid post.

[Howardx]

60. something stupid

remember this conversation when and IF obama is president and he lets you down, i'll be laughing.

[kelligesq]

64. and beat Newt at his own game.

[sandnsea]

68. That's one way Presidents push their agenda n/t

[JuniperLea]

62. Maybe you do...

I know you are but what am I?

:eyes:

Read the post again, and respond to what the poster is actually talking about.

[sandnsea]

67. I did, read some more

:crazy:

[JuniperLea]

70. The poster is talking about how the government works...

with regard to voting... which isn't what you replied about.

[557188]

42. I'm still with Edwards

But by the time Ohio votes Edwards may not even be around anymore sadly.

[goodhue]

52. not me

I've changed from Edwards, but have not fallen for anything. If I still thought Edwards might be the nominee I would support him wholeheartedly. But I don't. The nominee will be Clinton or Obama. Of those two, I far prefer Obama for reasons cultural, generational, stylistic and symbolic. And I think he can win if we turn out young voters. Indeed, I'm beginning to think Obama is essential to turning out young voters, and hence victory. I remain with Edwards and really Kucinich on the issues, but this is about transformational cultural change and I'm on fully board. I have no problem with folks who continue to passionately support Edwards, but please don't criticize my decision to do otherwise. Cheers!

:toast:

[JuniperLea]

63. If I still thought Edwards might be the nominee I would support him wholeheartedly.

Proof positive that a) you have fallen for the rhetoric, and b) you have no clue how a primary works. Your post proves out my OP far better than I stated it to begin with. Thanks for that!

:toast:

[kelligesq]

65. I votede for Edwards today - he may be able to force either of two others to drop

to drop their cooperation with lobbyists if it comes to that --but
I wouldnt count him out so fast. In March he has double the money coming to him.
He said he'd stay in til the end and I hope he does.

[JuniperLea]

69. Me too, kelligesq...

He understands how the primary works, fortunately! Unlike so many DUers... sadly.

[goodhue]

74. I've not fallen for shit and I fully understand how the primary works

Sadly it is those who still insist that Edwards has a snow balls chance in hell who have no clue. I have nothing against holding out for false hopes, but slamming those who do otherwise is bald rhetoric.

[JuniperLea]

76. Unless you can put some facts where your mouth is... fingers are...

You are the one spouting rhetoric right now.

There are still plenty of delegates left at the gate... tell me how this "snowball" doesn't have a chance.

[surfermaw]

66. I know it started when they said he didn't have enough money

that is what some stated after watching the debate in S.C. that they were for Edwards but would vote Obama because they thought he wouldn't stay in...how wrong they are..

[JuniperLea]

72. Yep! Who benefits from the candidates spending money??

Corporations!!! Media corporations! This whole money issue must go. There is no real reason for it except to put fat cash in the pockets of fat cats!

[2hip]

71. Help spread the word

KEEP THE MOMENTUM GOING!

New Grassroots Fund Drive—Wednesday, January 30th
(Please give the above link a kick for John!)

[JuniperLea]

73. Thanks for the info, 2hip!

It's a pity we have to feed the fat cats in corporate media in order to get the truth out, but that's how the stinking world is right now. Edwards would certainly try to help change that... Clinton and Obama are part of the machine! They have no inclination to stop it, none at all!

[krkaufman]

75. Yes, perhaps I have. The rhetoric of JE not pulling 15% in my state ...

... so I'd rather not have my vote discarded. Voting is pragmatic.

[JuniperLea]

77. Perfect "rah rah team! yay!" reasoning...

This is a primary... there are delegates assigned each state... the number of individual counts, or the percentage you note has been lowered because of this reasoning! You don't seem to get it.

[krkaufman]

78. Truthfully, I honestly don't understand what you're saying.

The 15% threshold is fixed, and it is the bar over which my candidate needs to reach for my vote to not be discarded. It might make some point for me to vote for a candidate who only has 9% support in my state, but that "point" won't translate to my voice have *any* effect on the convention.

Personally, I think this bar should be lowered or eliminated, or, as an alternative, lower the threshold *and* switch to Instant Runoff Voting to insure people's voices are not ignored.

[iris5426]

79. Exactly! Here is a response to an article on Wapo that I posted that pretty much is the same idea

Why should Edwards drop out? It's up to one person - him. And he's shaping the issues in this race and bringing to light the things that matter and should really be talked about. The saddest part about the current state of our democratic process is the people who say "I really like John Edwards, but I can't vote for him because he's not going to win." Of course he won't win if you don't vote for him!!! Idiots all, letting the MSM characterize this race into what they think fits instead of just presenting the facts about ALL of the candidates and letting the voters decide. 95% of the pieces on the news channels are about the bickering, bad mouthing and ooooh the gloves are off (for the 47th time). Where is the discussion of policy? That's what really matters in this race, and apparently everyone has lost sight of it.