Why isn't Hillary's "triangulation" working with independents?

[DeadElephant_ORG]

so- disclaimers first: I'm no fan of Ms. Clinton. But my question is not rhetorical or a backhand against her.

Long before this primary race got going - in fact since her run for the Senate - Hillary has followed a "general national election strategy" eschewing the support of progressives like myself in favor independents who might be convinced to vote Democratic. It's the same strategy that Bill followed in his campaigns, and in his governance. Pundits call this "triangulation". And while this has irked the hell out of me, pragmatically it has arguable appeal. In short, I've always feared that triangulation works.

So, can anyone explain why Hillary is doing so much better with registered Democrats than she is with independents who have voted Democratic. Why are independents going for Obama when Clinton has gone to such great lengths to attract their votes? Why have long-term, "hard-core" Democrats voted for Hillary more than Obama? What gives?

[_Wayne_]

1. Hillary never "triangulated." Spew your nonsense elsewhere.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

3. oh for God's sake - her vote for the war was triangulation

and that's just the start.

Do you think that when Bill passed "welfare reform" - which ended forever our nation's obligation to our destitute - that wasn't triangulation?

Please get over your defensiveness so that we can have a meaningful conversation, and can work together toward putting a Democrat in office.

[islandmkl]

2. perhaps "triangulation"

has just become strangulation?

[Cleita]

4. Since most independents usually vote Republican they

have bought into the irrational RW Hillary hatred. That's why. They could vote for Edwards, Obama or even just stay home if McCain isn't the Republican candidate but they will vote for McCain if he's it.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

5. VERY interesting point - but if that's true...

her effort to reach independents was doomed from the start. She would have attained more support - and more fervent support - if she'd been reaching out to "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party". (Howard Dean)

[Cleita]

6. Without a doubt. She should have saved that strategy for

after the primaries although I don't think it would have worked there either for the reasons I state.

[Tulkas]

7. Because approx. 45% of the country has said they will never vote for her no matter what

She can run against Satan himself (Huckabee???) and she can't top 52%.

Her negatives are higher than any other candidate since they started keeping track of that kinda crap.

She can't win independents. McCain can.

[pdxmom]

8. I think it's because a lot of independents have the attitude of "a pox

on both your houses". It has been so nasty and hateful since Bill took office that you have an entire generation of people who are just plain tired of the nastiness and the partisanship. An independent is an independent for a reason. I believe Obama is doing well with this group because he is giving them a message they've been wanting to hear ... a "change". Obama is specifically campaigning on making a difference in the tone and behavior in Washington. He has a policy (I've read it), but the pieces of the speeches that the MSM show us aren't the policy portion of his stump. They bring us the rhetorical portions of his speeches. And it is something that the independents want to hear and be a part of.

[jackson_dem]

9. She won the independent vote in Florida today with Obama and Edwards tied for second

[DeadElephant_ORG]

10. I can't find confirmation of that, but given the size of her victory, it's probably true.

But I did find some interesting data:

according to MSNBC:
Both parties’ electorates were older than in any other presidential contest this year. A third or more in each primary were at least 65 years old. In earlier Democratic contests no more than a quarter were senior citizens, and on the Republican side only the Nevada caucuses came anywhere close to Florida in the proportion of older voters.

and:
In the Democratic primary, two-thirds were white, about one in five were black and a little more than one in 10 were Hispanic.
—About one in seven voters in each party’s primary described themselves as independents.

So even assuming she won the independents, there were other factors that were probably more predictive of the outcome. It was the same thing with Obama in SC: he won the women's vote, but apparently only because he won black women.