Whoa! Simon Rosenberg Slams Hillary's Florida Grandstanding

[cali]

by pontificator
Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 07:41:53 PM PST
This is important. Simon has spent years helping build the Democratic party. And he's highly offended by Hillary's opportunistic grandstanding in Florida. For someone who's usually quite measured in his words, he doesn't sugercoat what he has to say:

pontificator's diary :: ::
Like many I wish the Democratic Party could have found a way to let the votes of the people of Michigan and Florida be counted. Unfortunately the rules were the rules, all the candidates agreed to them, and - for the most part - have stuck by them.

So what exactly is Hillary doing by going to Florida to declare victory, pushing her way into whatever is the big Republican story tonight? Somehow given the events of the last few weeks this move just feels wrongly timed. Too many questions are being raised about the Clinton's integrity, their willingness to do whatever it takes to win, even sacrificing long held values and beliefs in the process.

Having worked on the New Hampshire primary and in the War Room in 1992 for the Clintons, I was present at the creation of the famous "rapid response" campaign style and fierce fighting spirit of the Clinton era. In the very first meeting of the famous War Room James Carville warned us "that if you don't like to eat sh-- everyday you shouldn't be in politics." So I understand as well as anyone that this is a tough game, not for the faint of heart.

But there is a line in politics where tough and determined becomes craven and narcissistic, where advocacy becomes spin, and where integrity and principle is lost. I am concerned that this Florida gambit by the Clinton campaign is once again putting two of my political heroes too close - or perhaps over - that line. So that even if they win this incredible battle with Barack Obama they will end up doing so in a way that will make it hard for them to bring the Party back together, and to lead the nation to a new and better day.
If you're someone who regularly (or even only occasionally), reads Simon Rosenberg, or if you've heard him speak (he was at both YearlyKos conventions), you'd realize how unusual it is for him to use such pointed language. Clearly, Simon believes a line has been crossed.

Update <2008-1-29 22:52:25 by pontificator>: charlestown dem has more thoughts on Simon's post.


Update <2008-1-29 23:11:43 by pontificator>: For those of you unfamiliar with Simon Rosenberg, you can read about him here.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/29/223745/281/616/445857

[Proud2BAmurkin]

1. who?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Major behind the scenes Dem bigshot.

[tammywammy]

8. Link for your education

http://www.ndn.org/about/team/simonrosenberg.html

[Yossariant]

27. Your link forgot that Joe Trippi supported him for DNC chair in 2005.

[madfloridian]

39. Trippi did that to get back at Dean, we think.

For ignoring him. He endorsed Simon on the day Dean announed for chair. It was ugly.

[cali]

11. Long time and important Clinton ally

you really don't know much do you?

[K Gardner]

2. Much of the public, it seems, has been shocked by this tawdry behavior. Thanks for posting.

[DURHAM D]

6. Oh really - do you have polls on the tawdry behavior?

[fenriswolf]

9. except the hillbots

its a big party for a big win for them :eyes:

[rodeodance]

19. 185,000 plus voters in FL thank her --along with me.

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. Make that 815,069 Florida voters....the last time I looked.

;)

[rodeodance]

54. okey dokey-thanks

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. & Simple Simon was a pie man!

[Proud2BAmurkin]

26. lol

[Maven]

5. Who is that?

[cali]

13. Longtime Clinton ally and friend

founder of the NDP, major mover and shaker in dem circles.

[tammywammy]

14. Link for you

http://www.ndn.org/about/team/simonrosenberg.html

[Barack_America]

7. Very interesting, thanks for posting....n/t

[DJ13]

10. In the process of winning at all costs

The Clintons are rapidly losing the support of the party leadership.

No one vying to be the nominee can win without the endorsement and support of the party itself.

[DURHAM D]

12. You have got to be kidding? You are kidding - right. n/t

[UALRBSofL]

22. Well, by putting out articles like this

He really wants the democrats to lose in november. His underhanded slap at Hillary is uncalled for. That said, just remember, THIS IS JUST HIS OPINION.

[GoldieAZ49]

70. Seriously it is how the Democrats maintain control of the party: Super Delegates

They have 40% of the delegates after the people vote

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18277678

[ArfDogMNO]

15. reply

It will be interesting to see how the DNC leadership and senior elected official members act in a McCain/Clinton contest.

Given the great effort some senior DNC-member senators have gone to in order to endorse Obama in a high-profile manner, would they then support hillary openly or act otherwise? It is clear there is a real rift in the party over letting the clintons run the show 4/8 more years.

[ginnyinWI]

23. amen.

The Clintons seem to be making enemies right and left. I think they are banking on more loyalty than they actually have.

Are they in a bubble? Do they not see how this looks to us voters out here? You know, those of us across this country with everyday morals and standards...

[ZinZen]

66. and if the Clintons win, this will do them in

they will not win the GE.

[City Lights]

16. Thanks for posting this, cali.

Many of us are on to them.

[BenDavid]

17. well hell.....the pundits and obama supporters in here will

write off the Clinton win in Florida as a beauty contest, I can'help but to think that when a candidate who didn't campaign in the state at all comes in first ahead of all the Republicans, who have been campaigning hard there, that is to significant to ignore. And it'an even bigger victory because the Democrats who voted for Hillary knew their vote didn'even count.

So if the Democrats don't blow it by electing Obama I think this is an indication that Hillary would win by a landslide in the general election.

[ginnyinWI]

28. you know, Obama wasn't that far behind Hillary.

And considering the higher 60+ vote, he did pretty well to get what he did--with no campaigning.

[in_cog_ni_to]

50. Hillary = 815,069 votes...Barack = 539,345 votes. 274,724 difference isn't that far behind?

I beg to differ and the margin could be even larger after all the votes are in.

[jasmine621]

18. I'll make up my own mind about what is tawdy, thank you. nt

As Bill Clinton said in his "explosion" with the media, this is the shit that voters don't want to hear about. It's the media and the pundits that keep this stuff flying. The voters interested in what affects their lives and Hillary speaks very clearly and substantively about the issues.

[Gman]

20. Who the hell is Simon Rosenberger?

Rosenboner? Reisenhoover, or whatever the hell his name is. And why the hell should I care? He spent years building the Democratic Party? BFD! Find me someone that DOES NOT claim to have spent years building the Democratic Party. He's one face among literally millions over the years that have done the same thing. He's just another hack that wants a name for himself for his consulting business. BFD. Frankly, who gives a flying phuck what the hell Ringerhausen thinks?

[tammywammy]

24. Links for you

http://www.ndn.org/about/team/simonrosenberg.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Rosenberg

[Gman]

30. OMG! He's DLC!

666!

I'm sure he's a nice guy. But I really don't care what the hell he thinks. He's just one more of millions that have done the same thing.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. Formerly; not any more.

[tammywammy]

33. That's fine that you don't care

I was just letting you know who he is.

[Gman]

58. Thank you, Tammy

I appreciate you're being kind enough to do that.

You see, there's a whole lot of us that have been working in the party for over 30 years. Many of us worked on the local level. Many of us have worked at the state level. I was on our state executive committee for several years and I've been a delegate to the national convention a couple of times. My point is, he's not in my neighborhood, my precinct or my state senate district where I work. There's a whole lot of us that have been doing what he's been doing for years and just like him, we have opinions that are just as valid as his.

If you learn one thing from all this it's never glorify anybody in politics and never ever fall in love with a politician. He/she WILL break your heart in a big way at some point, guaranteed.

[tishaLA]

21. I'm not a Hillary hater by any means

--and, full disclosure, I supporter Sen Obama and consider Sen Clinton my second choice--but these kind of words are troubling to me because they are coming from so many directions toward the Clinton camp. And I mean within the party, not from the pundocracy. It is beginning to trouble me that the splintering they see happening is real and not merely an invention of GDP and Wolf Blitzer.

[Mojorabbit]

42. Yes this bothers me too

It is almost as if they have decided within the party that they do not want her as the nominee.
While she is not my first choice, I don't like this sabotaging her from within the party.

[tishaLA]

53. i'm not sure which direction it goes

whether they feel like they are destroying the party or whether the party is going to keep pulling the carpet out from under the clintons until they are gone. but there is some nasty warfare going on that we don't know about and, i think, we are lucky we DON'T know about.

[AX10]

68. I don't like this inter-party assault either.

[sjdnb]

25. They were up against George H.W. Bush's sky-high approval ratings

(approval rating was above 90 percent in 1991) in the wake of Operation Desert Storm ...

But, Clinton understood the implications of allowing the RW machine to steamroll over America, unchallenged.

From Wikipedia:

Clinton's election ended an era in which the Republican Party had controlled the White House for 12 consecutive years, and for 20 of the previous 24 years. That election also brought the Democrats full control of the political branches of the federal government, including both houses of U.S. Congress as well as the presidency, for the first time since the administration of the last Democratic president, Jimmy Carter.

Without Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich's 'Contract to Screw Americans' would have gone unchecked.

It is people like Mr. Rosenberg, selective memories that 'conveniently' support their current positions, who will do more to tear the party and the country apart than any freeper ever could.

[Kittycat]

29. Wow. I have my opinions, but reading his leaves me speechless

I think I agree with a PP about the rift. There really must be something going on behind the scenes that is pretty nasty right now, for all these "High profile" dems to be coming out. Particularly those that have supported the Clintons for years.

[Maven]

32. Why didn't he condemn Obama's Kennedy endorsement grandstanding?

No one voted for Obama and he still turned a minor event into a media spectacle so he could claim the "second coming of JFK" mantle.

And that's not "craven and narcissistic?" Or is it only "pushy" when a woman grabs the spotlight?

[debatepro]

34. because Kennedy's endorcement isn't grandstanding

You know... a big endorsement usually involves a press event ... then that person campaigns for you! Were as claiming victory in a state that tried to game the system and had their delegates pulled is probably the definition of grandstanding?


:toast:

[Maven]

41. Nah. Not necessary for him to make it into such a huge spectacle

The intention was to put the attention on him and get another speech covered by the press. And he did. And they covered it and repeated and repeated it.

And she did win more votes than her opponents in FL. And by the way, self-serving as her move may have been, it may have helped the party by undoing some of the damage done by claims that FL voters were "irrelevant." We can't afford to demoralize FL Dems in the run-up to the GE.

[cali]

36. It;s ridiculous to accuse Simon Rosenberg ot being sexist about HIllary

and the reason he didn't criticize Obama is because it's SOP to do what he did re an important endorsement.

[jackson_dem]

35. He is a "New Democrat" so of course he will rally behind Obama

[cali]

37. utterly absurd.

do you ever actually think?

[jackson_dem]

47. lol. cali=the most arrogant poster here by a mile

You are a legend. In your own mind...

[springhill]

73. You got that right.....................

She can't help but be insulting; it's what she does.

[Califooyah Operative]

69. You're joking right?

The Clinton's are THE 'new dems.'

[madfloridian]

38. That is very significant.

Simon has done a lot of work with the Hispanic outreach, huge in fact.

He differed with Al From when the DLC was attacking Dean in the primaries and calling us "fringe activists"

That is important.

[OzarkDem]

40. He doesn't seem to have a point

to his ramblings.

He's apparently angry that Hillary won in Florida, but there isn't much substance to his rant.

On edit: He's DLC, that explains it. Does this mean the DLC is backing Obama or just one faction of it? All the inbred politics of DC Dems is confusing.

[cali]

44. LOL!

As usual, the obvious and clearly written goes right over your wee head.

[OzarkDem]

55. For those of us living in reality

I'm sure you see it that way. :crazy:

[madfloridian]

45. Look what he said.....it is very important.

"But there is a line in politics where tough and determined becomes craven and narcissistic, where advocacy becomes spin, and where integrity and principle is lost. I am concerned that this Florida gambit by the Clinton campaign is once again putting two of my political heroes too close - or perhaps over - that line. So that even if they win this incredible battle with Barack Obama they will end up doing so in a way that will make it hard for them to bring the Party back together, and to lead the nation to a new and better day."

Coming from one who founded the DLC with the Clintons....it is highly important.

[OzarkDem]

56. Sorry madfloridian

I place no credence in anything the DLC says.

What he really means is that the battle between the DLC's two candidates is splintering the DLC. I see that as a good thing. Let them self-destruct so the real Democratic Party can move forward.

[UALRBSofL]

46. Exactly

That's how I see it. Just back slap Hillary for going to florida.

[madfloridian]

49. He says even if she wins, she loses....might split the party.

"But there is a line in politics where tough and determined becomes craven and narcissistic, where advocacy becomes spin, and where integrity and principle is lost. I am concerned that this Florida gambit by the Clinton campaign is once again putting two of my political heroes too close - or perhaps over - that line. So that even if they win this incredible battle with Barack Obama they will end up doing so in a way that will make it hard for them to bring the Party back together, and to lead the nation to a new and better day."

[OzarkDem]

57. Split the DLC, not the party

that's why the DLC has its knickers in a twist.

The party will survive, and we still have John Edwards, the fail/safe candidate in case Clinton and Obama self destruct.

[madfloridian]

48. He is saying even if Hillary beats Obama....she could hurt the party.

"But there is a line in politics where tough and determined becomes craven and narcissistic, where advocacy becomes spin, and where integrity and principle is lost. I am concerned that this Florida gambit by the Clinton campaign is once again putting two of my political heroes too close - or perhaps over - that line. So that even if they win this incredible battle with Barack Obama they will end up doing so in a way that will make it hard for them to bring the Party back together, and to lead the nation to a new and better day."

[ErnestoG]

51. There's a quote from Captain Obvious.

[UALRBSofL]

60. Most folks don't buy into scare tactics

But that's what he is doing. The party will be fine. And, Hillary will unite the country from when Bush split it in half.

[ErnestoG]

67. Even when the fear is justified?

Hillary is the most divisive element out there. She goes up against McCain, and we are toast.

[krkaufman]

79. The only hope will be McCain making some insanely misogynistic statement ...

... compelling a vast majority of women to vote for Hillary. (And I'm only partly kidding.)

[krkaufman]

78. HRC's "negatives" are in the high 40s.

She'll be lucky to unite 55% of the country.

[fadedrose]

52. K & R

[Beacool]

59. This is getting tiresome!!!

Some of the Dem. establishment keep trying to cut off Hillary at the knees, but guess what? It ain't going to work!!!!

Voters have the final say and they don't care about the petty battles among the overdriven egos of the party's high & mighty. Well over 850,000 voters decided to cast their vote for Hillary, DESPITE knowing that their vote would be symbolic.

Hillary won a decisive victory tonight and the Obama campaign's spin will not change that fact.

[cali]

61. this isn't from an Obama supporter

it's from a long tie ally of the Clintons who is normally very behind the scenes and very circumspect. He's concerned that the Clintons are going to split the party. And he sure as hell isn't the only one.

[madfloridian]

62. This is not from the Obama campaign.

It is a guy who helped found the DLC with the Clintons.

I am despairing for DU tonight.

[Mojorabbit]

63. I know what you mean

madfloridian. It seems like there are so many here that have lost all sense of perspective. I am bummed for our state too.

[UALRBSofL]

64. I'm bummed too

But you know what people say, "Never piss off your good friends, they will turn against you".

And I'm bummed because I can't be happy with my state primary because the Obama supporters keep raining on my parade. :(

[krkaufman]

80. Re: "lost sense of perspective"

Heck, I'd go with sense of sight. It seems like people are incapable of reading or comprehending fairly straightforward text.

[GoldieAZ49]

71. WRONG the SUPER DELEGATES are the party's high and mighty

and have 40% of the Delegate vote AFTER us common voters have our say.

Any candidate can win 30% of the primaries and BECOME the party nominee

PLEASE read how this works, how this system works

Find out WHO the SUPER DELEGATES are and the power they have, this is why the endorsements by Dems can make all the difference.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18277678

This is why ONLY moderate Dems will ever get the nomination

[krkaufman]

81. YEah, I loathe that aspect of the Dem primaries.

I heard the other day that superdelegates were instituted after the Democratic "unwashed masses" nominated George McGovern in 1972. Or... I should say, after McGovern, the popularly nominated candidate lost to Nixon.

http://www.kptv.com/politics/15065561/detail.html

The 1972 Democratic National Convention produced George McGovern as the Democratic presidential nominee. Although he won the nomination by a wide margin, he lost the presidency in a landslide to Richard Nixon, winning only one state and 37.5 percent of the popular vote. Because of this, the Democratic Party instituted super delegates as a safeguard to guarantee party control over the nomination process. Political experts say this system was put in place so the party could avoid a mistake by voters in nominating a candidate.

So the system is stacked against the grassroots, upstart candidate. Party elders hold 40% of the available delegate votes; the primaries are front-loaded and overloaded, favoring the candidate(s) with the most money and/or name recognition; the 15% delegate-allocation threshold silences hundreds of thousands of voters and unnecessarily negates the power of fledgling candidates.

[FrenchieCat]

65. People in Iowa and New Hampshire were lied to.......

and folks are gonna be pissed.

Oooh....Hillary's done gone and done it now! :wow:

[LVjinx]

72. I'm gonna be real honest

Oooo... He sounds like a real bigwig! Big enough, anyway, that he should be able to frame events in a context of his design, using his position to cause divisiveness in the campaign. We need a unified party come November, and this isn't the way to go about doing that.

This sort of stupidity really turns me off about these self-important Democratic leaders. I don't care what any of these pundits, prognosticators, look-at-me!, over-the-hill windbags, would-be-king makers, brown nosers, and oo-I'm-so-important types have to say. I'm capable of watching the debates. I'm capable of evaluating the issues. I'm capable of determining who I think has the best plan. And, after all that, I'm damn well capable of deciding who I want to vote for.

I don't need some irrelevant moron to tell me that if I don't support Obama I'm racist, or if I don't support Hillary I'm sexist, or if I don't support Edwards I'm a self-loathing white male with liberal guilt. These bit players need to BUTT OUT!!!

I don't give a crap who the Democrat establishment wants. I don't particularly WANT a Democrat establishment candidate. I don't care who the most deeply entrenched politicians line up behind. I care about who I think can get things done.

I like Obama. I like Hillary. I like Edwards. What I don't like are the constant attempts at manipulating Democratic voters (usually through emotion) coming from a lot of these peripheral players.

Clinton won in Florida. She had a victory rally. Whoop dee doo! No one's going to die because of it, and Florida voters appreciate the attention.

Again, this kind of article serves no purpose but sewing seeds of division.

[FrenchieCat]

74. Tell that to the Clintons!

He was, afterall, their man!

[springhill]

76. Agreed.......

Hillary can do no right these days............the media don't like her, they didn't like Bill, they didn't like Gore, so they all get pummeled. Has she done some things that should get criticized? Of course, just as Obama has done. But the backlash against Hillary is really quite remarkable. On Charlie Rose last night, they had a bunch of journalists on, and the love-fest for Obama and the promotion of him was really quite astounding. I am not a supporter of either Hillary or Barack, but I am getting really sick of the double standards used when it comes to analyzing controversial statements by these two candidates.

[Lucinda]

75. Sorry. But his little rant does not impress me. He lost me when he said

"So what exactly is Hillary doing by going to Florida to declare victory, pushing her way into whatever is the big Republican story tonight?"

Why should I care about a big Republican story being interrupted?
Why should I be critical of a candidate going to say thank you to a state where 850,000+ people took the time to vote for her.

The man, in these comments, has an agenda that doesn't speak for me.

[krkaufman]

77. Unfortunately, Simon misses another aspect of Clinton's maneuvering...

... as I mentioned here. (Calling for seating of FL delegates just days before the primary was a ploy to skirt the "no campaign" pledge and gain favorable coverage in local news media across Florida.)