An Edwards supporter struggles with what to do

[lwcon]

Here is why I have trouble deciding between Obama and Hillary: http://www.correntewire.com/triangulation_the_next_generation

Pretty much every day, I feel kicked in the teeth by Obama, as I wrote to someone in blog comments last night:

The more I peel the Obama onion, the more I see his calculated disrespect of people like me (personally, and in terms of objectives).

The personal:
* Lifelong Democrats
* Baby Boomers
* Rationalists
* Secularists
* People with memories
* People who are angry at Bush and his forebears

The objectives:
* Fighting the Conservative Movement
* Convincing others to say “never again” to all that’s happened on Bush’s watch
* Having the criminality of the Bushies fully exposed and punished
* Having Bush’s incursions on the Constitution fully reversed
* Making the Democratic Party become more progressive, more popular, and more successful — and not a marginal party with one charismatic triangulator (i.e., not a replay of 1994, when the Reaganites re-revolted because Clinton’s third way didn’t kill or even tame the beast)

The Reagan thing is but one of countless examples, but his “W.O.R.M.” moment on Stephanopoulos’s show isn’t just “burnishing the Reagan show biz stategy.”

He is building a fucking monument to the most cherished and valuable Republican meme, that Democrats are the party of taxes and bloat. You’d have to work pretty hard to structure a better picture for Middle America of why Reagan Republicanism is a better brand than the damned Democrat Party:

Well, I think that, keep in mind Ronald Reagan came in during the 1980s, at a time when, I think, Democrats still dominated Congress, when the view was that we were going to solve our problems, oftentimes, by expanding government programs, and he challenged many of those ideas.

I understand this recoiling from all-Obama-disappointment-all-the-time, but that’s what I’m experiencing watching this campaign, and that’s what I, for one, am writing.

Obamism has turned into a religion, and that religion is teaching precepts that we progressives know to be wrong (and a zillion endorsements from Democrats I genuinely like don’t change that fact, just like I don’t think their Jesus is the son of God, no matter how many times they say “God bless America”).

How much disempowering shit do progressives have to eat to put a relatively benign guy in the White House?

In my opinion, not nearly as much as he’s feeding us. Even though he’s feeding us that shit with friendly cooing and “here comes the airplane” talk, we need to grab that hand and tell him, as best our little voices can, to put some decent food on that spoon before we’re going to take another bite.

Yet, at the end of the day, I know his platform is comparable to Hillary's, maybe a little better. And he's more electable, because he's more charismatic and he's unburdened by the unfair baggage that's been dumped on the Clintons over the years.

But I trust him less not to get more corrupted by the Beltway establishment than the battle-hardened Clintons already are.

So, who gets my vote next Tuesday?! Argh!!!!

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[acmavm]

1. I dislike Hillary (and that's putting it mildly). I detest Obama.

He's a lying opportunistic lobby flunky.

[lwcon]

2. What to do, what to do?

Obviously I'll vote for either to keep another authoritarian, sociopathic Republican away from the levers of power.

But right now I'm feeling the audacity of disappointment and two middling options.

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[jensmygov]

3. Next President

John McCain thanks you for your vote.

[lwcon]

4. That's the problem we're facing

We have two triangulating candidates, one of which we'll have to support against McCain. The problem is, which one is the better bargain?

And let's be clear, it is they who have made it hard on us. Both have wrapped themselves in rightwing accommodation and rightwing talking points. They're miles better than any authoritarian, sociopathic Republican, but neither inspires some of us. The candidate who did is out now, so we're stuck.

But don't go painting us with that Republican-enabler brush.

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[Andy823]

16. I agree

I am in the same boat. Neither one of them can compare to Edwards, and I don't trust either on of them. They will have to really show me some "substance" before I vote for either one of them in my primary.

[acmavm]

15. Well if we weren't left with shit candidates we wouldn't be in this

fix. It's almost like the Deliverence version of the Democratic Party.

[readmoreoften]

9. That about sums up my position. /nt

[KittyWampus]

10. #1. here's me marking another vile, obnoxious attack on Obama. But it's only Obama supporters who do

this.

[robbedvoter]

5. I hear you. I voted Clark after he dropped out in 2004, before Super Tuesday

But for me , the kicker that made me decide to vote Hillary (after a long meditation like yours) was her coming for Fla, Mi voters vs Kerry's "Fla dosan't count"(for Obama). To me , voting rights are important enough to tip the balance...

[arewenotdemo]

6. I'm all those things you listed, and also fully supportive of Obama.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. An online friend, ex-Clarkie, posted an "Undecided" thread the other day

Struggling with her choice between Obama and Clinton. She seemed to lean Clinton on a head to head comparison basis, but worried that there might be too much hatred of Clinton out there. This is what I wrote to her:

I think the ferociousness of attacks on Hillary will backfire
Edited on Tue Jan-29-08 10:28 AM by Tom Rinaldo
Here is an interesting story out of Florida:

Sun-Sentinal.com
Women give Clinton commanding lead in Florida
By Anthony Man | Political Writer
January 23, 2008

"...The South Florida Sun-Sentinel/Florida Times-Union Florida poll conducted last week found that among Democrats, Clinton had support of 56 percent of likely female voters — 36 percentage points ahead of Obama, who had support of 20 percent of women. Clinton had the support of 43 percent of men, just 5 percentage points ahead of Obama's 38 percent."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-flbwomen0123pnjan23,0,6141190.story

The gender gap breaks much stronger in favor of Clinton among women than it breaks against her among men, and not just in Florida. And of course women are the majority group in America. Right now, in the Democratic Primary, sympathy for the unfair "attacks" Hillary comes under as a women is largely counterbalanced by sympathy for Obama because of "attacks" the media blames on the Clinton camp against Obama over race.

The story of how race is playing into this contest, and discussion about it, is overshadowing any focus on sexism for now. But the Republicans are going to run a white guy for President. If Hillary is our nominee there will be virtually if no talk about race baiting, but the issue of sexism will be on bold display across America. That is because the Republican Hate Machine can't help itself. They don't know how to throttle back their derision of Hillary, it goes against their DNA seemingly on the cellular level. They will repeat all the mistakes that won Hillary real sympathy in New Hampshire, and stir outrage against those who act belittling toward a woman who dares to believe she can be a leader. Obvious low blows will be landed against Hillary, and she will still stand strong. The public, women in particular, will not stand silently for that. Hillary's haters will dig their own grave.

As the Democratic nominee for President Hillary will get the stage half for herself to define herself to the American People. That is about an 800% more fair division of media access between Hillary herself and Hillary's haters than she has ever gotten before on a National level in the 15 years since Republicans started attacking her.

The Republicans have given it their best shot to negatively define Hillary Clinton and her positives vs negatives now are not that much worse in polling than Barack Obama is recording. But the Republicans have barely begun to spin their toxic stories about Richard Daley's legacy of an iron fisted Chicago political machine and a supposed culture of corruption that ruled Chicago throughout Obama's dramatic rise in politics. Obama has gotten the rock star treatment, Hillary has gotten Ken Starr's treatment. Hillary Clinton is the one with real upside potential left when the voters reevaluate her one on one in direct comparison with a Republican opponent.

Hillary Clinton will win the debates, that is important, because if she doesn't come across as up for the job the public will not balk at the unfair derision she will receive despite being the most intelligent and competent candidate running. But Clinton clearly comes across as brilliant. She comes across as strong but still understanding of the real pain real Americans are feeling. She comes across as a hard worker at a time when the voters understand that it will take hard work to deal with the massive problems any President is about to inherit. Hillary Clinton will certainly be scorned by her enemies during the General Election campaign. But they would be much wiser to "Beware a woman scorned..."


And I also wrote her this:

What I want to say to you is simply to support the person who you feel will make the best President for America. We will take that person over the finish line together. I think you should go with the person who you would rather vote for out of them.

[flpoljunkie]

8. I'd go with Caroline and Ted Kennedy.

[Barack_America]

11. Take some time and think about it.

There's no need to rush a decision.

[Cameron27]

12. Why do you think that Obama's got a better platform

than HRC? Paul Krugman's been very emphatic that HRC's healthcare plan and her stance on SS are far better than Obama's, so I'm wondering which policy statements of his do you think are better than hers.

[lwcon]

19. I'm not sure I agree that those platforms are better

I like raising the SS cap, though Obams seriously screwed up by playing into the GOP's "social security is in crisis" canard, just like he's played into every GOP frame.

I do trust her somewhat more than the people-pleasing Obama. She may be a triangulator like both her husband and Obama, but I think she knows what she's about and who she's going to have to contend with. She can be cagey but doesn't like to sling the BS like her opponent does, and she's stood up to some serious tests.

But dammit, the smooth Obama probably is a stronger candidate and may get less flak from the media who unfairly have made Clinton hate job #1 for decades.

I truly don't know what to do....

[Individualist]

13. Always vote your conscience,

regardless of what the media and DLC want you to do.

[lwcon]

25. I'm a pragmatist

I vote to get the best nominee I can, or the most leverage in the process.

Best doesn't necessarily mean the "most electable," but it better mean electable enough.


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The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com

[Milo_Bloom]

14. For me it is right in here...

"But I trust him less not to get more corrupted by the Beltway establishment than the battle-hardened Clintons already are."

Already are....

At least with Obama, there is a CHANCE that he won't get corrupted and a small chance is better than no chance at all.

Hope this helps.

[goldcanyonaz]

17. Sorry that you are faced with this decision. Best luck to you.

:hug:

[lwcon]

18. Please K&R so other Edwards supporters will read your advice

I have to step out for a while, but will read all the replies later on today.

Thank you to those who have put forth earnest comments.

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[jillan]

20. Take your time.

I still haven't picked a candidate, and I've had alot longer to think about it.

You will vote for whoever win the nomination in the GE, and that is all that is important.

[leftynyc]

21. There's a debate tomorrow night (I think)

Maybe that will help. I vote on Tuesday and I'm ready to flip a coin at this point.

[lwcon]

22. Thanks. I see there's one in L.A.

Not sure what station..

[cooolandrew]

23. The SC speech wasn't a Reaganite speech, he was saying Reagan won dems over he can do the reverse.

[lwcon]

24. His explanation made it worse...

http://www.correntewire.com/what_obama_actually_said_about_reagan_to_george_stephanopoulos_today

[kelligesq]

26. why im still voting for Edwards on Feb 5

Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 08:38 AM by kelligesq
John Edwards has framed the issues all along - Single Payer healthcare, not

Universal, lobbyists out of the elections, America taking care of and giving a

chance for affordable college, taking care of our Vets, bringing home our

people from Iraq within a year without permanent bases in Iraq, restoring

America and every issue until Obama and Clinton "borrowed" his populist stance.

But "borrowing" words is not a commitment to carry them out whichever

one gets the nomination for the general election.

That is why we must must must continue to vote for John Edwards on Feb 5

The more delegates he collects even though he has "suspended" his campaign (I

suspect because of the MSM essentially boycotting coverage of him and the

failure of the feds to match funds until March) the more power John will have to

extract a written committment from either or both candidates to adhere to John's

and our populist issues

[Stop Cornyn]

27. I'll probably vote Edwards simply because I see no real distinction between Obama and Hillary.

There may be a couple of differences, but I prefer Hillary on half of those differences (health care, fighting against anti-consumer tort legislation, etc.) and prefer Obama on the other half of those issues (Kyl-Lieberman, tax cuts for the wealthy, etc.).

It's a complete wash between Obama and Hillary.