This Isn't a Tickling Contest

[H2O Man]

In December 2007, after being knocked out by Floyd Mayweather, boxer Ricky Hatton was asked what had happened? "Well, as I said, this isn’t a tickling contest," he said.

I think that is true of the democratic primary contest, as well. A number of good candidates, who could have made good presidents, have been knocked out of the contest.

Today the candidate who seemed to best represent the progressive and liberal wings of the democratic party is dropping out of the contest. I am confident that John Edwards will continue to advocate for social justice, through the democratic convention and the 2008 election. I hope that he will be the next US Attorney General, because I am convinced that is the position where he could best continue to advocate for social justice in the land.

The contest now is between two candidates: Senator Barack Obama and Senator Hillary Clinton. As we move closer to Super Tuesday, there are important events taking place. Both Obama and Clinton are getting important and impressive endorsements. It may be that in time John Edwards will endorse one of the two remaining democrats.

It is possibly that the contest between Obama and Clinton will continue to be ugly. The supporters from both camps feel that the other candidate is primarily responsible for the problems. The issue was highlighted by reports in the media of Senator Edward Kennedy calling former President Bill Clinton to request that he stop bringing the issue of race into the contest.

Senator Kennedy has since publicly endorsed Barack Obama. In large part, this was because Ted decided that Hillary Clinton can not win in the general election. He based this on two issues: (a) Senator Clinton’s high negatives; and (b) the Clinton campaign’s divisive tactics.

The Clinton campaign has been fully aware of her high negatives. They are confident that Senator Clinton can win the general election despite the negatives. They are also aware of the potential for damaged relationships before the convention, but believe that this is part of the primary process, and that the party will come together in the fall.

Since Senator Kennedy endorsed Barack Obama, other interests in the democratic party have accused him of betraying them. Of note is a harsh statement issued by some members of NOW.

The truth is that internal fighting has led to bitterness which has prevented the party from uniting in the past. We have had examples of in-fighting during primaries divide us, such as in 1968, the year which the current primary contests seems to most closely resemble.

This isn’t a tickling contest, but it does not have to be a bloody brawl. We should be able to have civil, rational discussions about the issues that are the most important to us. That doesn’t mean we will agree on every issue or either candidate. But we can move ahead in an attempt to find common ground. If we can’t try to do that now, it will become harder to do at the convention or in the general election.

[Me.]

1. Dems Need To Focus On The Fact That Our Real Opponent Is McCain

Yeah Gods, after the last 7-8 years do we really want another warmonger in the WH? Can the country survive? So we best get our priorities straight and get ourselves a candidate who can best him. It's all about the numbers and both negatives and positives have to be taken into account.

[bigtree]

2. It will be infinitely easier for us to define the contrasts between our nominee and the republicans

than between these two Democratic senators.

[H2O Man]

5. The republican debate

that is on CNN tonight should help with that. It could become ugly.

[H2O Man]

3. The campaign

may become even uglier and more divisive if people do not recognize that the real enemy in 2008 is the republican machine.

[robertpaulsen]

14. Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb, bomb Iran.

This clip needs to be played over and over until every American is aware that as much as McCain would like to be seen as a "maverick" (a phony meme that MSM has been more than happy to propagate) he is just as trigger-happy as Dumbya, and just as sickeningly glib about it too. Once Americans have it hammered into their collective consciousness just how wide the divide is between the two candidates, whoever we finally settle on, it should be no contest.

[H2O Man]

20. His "honest" talk

about more and more wars will help convince voters that Senator McCain hasn't learned much in the past five years.

[Little Star]

27. It may convince them he belongs in a straight Jacket. n/t

[Little Star]

26. Send that to Romney. I'd rather take him on than Mac.

[Me.]

32. Eternal War

I frankly think he's crazy as a loon, seriously. He has some real temper issues and often comes off as rather thuggish. Also, while I would not disqualify someone on the basis of age, clips from the debate showed him to rapidly be approaching his sell by date.

[Enrique]

4. maybe it should be

my money would be on Hillary.

[H2O Man]

6. Watching John Edwards ......

I think that he is going to continue to influence the primary contest.

[Me.]

9. Hope So

We need voices like his

[LeftCoast]

7. Dupe

stupid mouse

[LeftCoast]

8. Just curious how you know how Ted Kennedy made his Obama endorsement

I haven't seen those reasons given by anyone who's talked to Kennedy. I have seen speculation about them though. Has this been confirmed anywhere?

[spooky3]

10. according to RealClearPolitics, Obama's negatives are nearly as high

as Clinton's.

[H2O Man]

11. The strengths

ans weaknesses of both candidates should be objectively examined.

[spooky3]

13. agree - I had assumed when you used the term in your OP

you mean poll #s, e.g., when poll-takers are asked "would you definitely vote FOR Candidate X or AGAINST Candidate X?" or something like that, with the against votes being counted as negatives.

I saw recent polls, I believe on RCP, that reported that Obama's perceived negatives were nearly as high as Clinton's. Edwards' net positives minus negatives were the best of all the candidates, I believe, but unfortunately...you know the rest of that story.

[H2O Man]

19. Yes, I was

making reference to the polls that were being considered. I was speaking of specific information that led to the decision to endorse Senator Obama. It appears that you might be seeing different polls.

[spooky3]

29. Here's the source (Rasmussen, not RCP):

(sorry for the misattribution)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/favorables/election_2008_democratic_candidates_running_in_2008_presidential_election

As I mentioned previously, the numbers are not that different for HC and BO, especially when sampling error is factored in. To the extent that one can trust Rasmussen, and I realize you might not at all, these #s just don't support the notion that HC's negatives are reliably worse than BO's.

My former candidate, Edwards, did as well or better on some measures, but ...

I just don't know whether Kennedy actually had seen different #s or was relying on his own opinions. If you know of another source, please post.

[H2O Man]

30. Thank you.

I looked at that, and appreciate your linking it.

In looking at how each candidate stacks up, it's important to look state by state. I did not find anything that detailed on the Rasmussen site, but that may be because I am not a paid subscriber, and was only able to view some general information. Hence I have no opinion on their value.

[Laurab]

12. K & R n/t

[LSK]

15. H20 Man, I applaud your efforts for civility here

However, it is a battle not worth fighting. The bashing will just continue. I have severely reduced my presense in this forum ever since the forums were split last week. I feel my time is much better served in GD or topic forums. I also feel more comfortable and at peace with our candidates if I am not in this forum.

[H2O Man]

21. Yep,

There are certainly a group of people who, for reasons one can only speculate upon, are looking to create hard feelings. And some of them will post a dozen or more divisive threads per day. So I'll probably post one thread every day or two, for those who are interested in discussions about how we can best find the common ground needed to insure democratic victories in November.

[rosesaylavee]

16. That is one beautiful pin in your OP.

And as for this NOT being a tickling contest, the candidates show really no sense of humor, no sense of humanity any more. I am so tired of the infighting between the two remaining candidates and the infighting or 'bloody brawls' here between their supporters.

[H2O Man]

18. The tie clip

was handed out on the steps of the County Court House in Norwich NY when he was running for US Senate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. I Love The "Sweet Science" As Much As Anybody But I Respectfully Think The Boxing Analogy Fails

Because We're All Family And Want The Same Thing For Our Nation...

[H2O Man]

22. Well,

it is true that boxers shake hands after the referee's instructions. But, other than that, the analogy is perfect. Of course all life imitates boxing.

[Usrename]

23. Edwards would be a fine Attorney General.

Even though I voted for him for President yesterday, I do think he would be better as Attorney General.

I think it's now a question of who might get out the most vote in order to swing the Congress further to the Dems.

The answer is too obvious to even warrant discussion.

[H2O Man]

24. A good case

can be made that John Edwards could do more as Attorney General on the issues that are most important to him. I think that both Obama and Clinton would do well to consider him for that position.

[Usrename]

25. That's a very easy case to make.

Especially if they rebuild the Chinese wall between the Whitehouse and Justice. I can see a lot of opportunity to play "good cop, bad cop" while Edwards is rounding up the worst corporate offenders. I, for one, would welcome the sight of Edwards with an entire law enforcement agency under his direction.

[Little Star]

28. amen. n/t

[Tatiana]

31. Hillary can win in spite of her high negatives in a general election

IF she can mobilize Democratic voters like she did in Florida nationally. I'm not quite convinced she can yet. The drawback is that she may bring out Republicans who would have normally stayed home (due to the anemic Republican candidate) to vote against her.

Obama will get the crossover vote (TONS of Republicans here will vote completely Republican except for president; they are crossing party lines to vote for Obama). Republicans genuinely seem to be drawn to the idea of change.

I think Obama can get more independents than Hillary. If it's McCain versus Clinton, I think the independents vote for McCain.

However, Clinton brings out the base better than Obama does. There are those of us that are "not ready to make nice." We have long memories. Memories of WMD and Heckuva Job Brownie and floating bodies and the Pet Goat and Michael Powell and Cheney's shadow government and Gonzo's DOJ.

[H2O Man]

33. I think she can win.

It looks like the republican candidate will be McCain. If it is, Bloomberg is less likely to step in. That is good for Senator Clinton.