Obama's Tie is ugly and Hillary wears a wig..(former healthcare thread)

[busymom]

HA..made you look..

I've seen healthcare bandied about as a reason to not support Hillary...and I'd like to address it in a thread of it's own.

Hillary was the first candidate to really try and get universal health care going in this country....and...it wasn't her fault that it didn't take off. The minute she talked about 'Universal Health Care', the republicans screamed "HillaryCare" and demonized every aspect of her plan as socialized medicine, because she dared look at the other healthcare systems in countries that provide coverage to all people and try to figure out how to best bring a universal coverage plan to America.

Here are some things that I will say about my own experience with healthcare, having lived abroad for several years. In Germany, I was on the govt. healthcare plan, while my husband enjoyed private coverage. I paid a percentage of my paycheck each month for my health coverage as did my employer. The difference in our care? When I had our son, I was in a room with 3 other women and was seen my residents who were supervised by attending physicians. If my husband had been hospitalized, he would have been taken care of by the attending.

My outcome? Excellent.

We also lived in the UK. My husband is a physician and he actually experienced being called for a code and the hospital not having the medications to revive the patient...she died because of what he described as "govt. regulated population control". Waiting lists were ridiculous and though it was *free* there were a lot of problems. One of my closest friends lives in the UK. Her daughter was born with a kidney problem and had to be seen here in the US because of waiting lists/inability to get in to see the specialist there. To me, that's scary.

Whether we like it or not, we will have to consider very carefully how we bring about a plan of Universal health coverage to the United States. I know that people don't want to have to work with insurance companies or industry, but at the same time....Medicare sucks monkey balls.

And I know that everyone hates that doctors earn a nice living...but...the average medical student leaves medical school with $150,000 of debt..works for 3-5 years 80+ hours/week not able to put back money for retirement or have time for family...and then is on call for their entire careers to commit themselves to the care of their patients.

A discussion about how to best get healthcare to all americans is a very tough topic, and I truly applaud the fact that Hillary tried so hard to give this topic traction so many years ago...

I recently survived my own healthcare battle....I was diagnosed with a lymphoma while I was pregnant and had chemotherapy during the pregnancy...and ended up with a preemie in the NICU while I was having radiation. It was terrible...but we are all healthy right now. Some of my friends experienced things like...there insurance not paying for anti-nausea drugs or dropping them from their health insurance plans in the middle of a bone marrow transplant. Holy Shit.

But at the same time, we are not going to dissolve the health insurance industry...it will never happen..so we need to realistically come up with a way to mandate that they provide standard of care to patients.

Sorry for the long post...but I believe that Hillary Clinton's plan can provide all americans with the coverage that they deserve.

[shayes51]

1. thank you

[busymom]

2. :)

[hertopos]

15. Why not one more time K&R

People read OP.

It is important to undestand something called reality.

Hertopos

[busymom]

16. no one cares..

Maybe I should retitle it....

Obama's tie is weird
or
Hillary's hair looks like she's wearing a wig.

Then people would really get into it.

[busymom]

17. now lets see

[rodeodance]

3. needs LOTS of RECs for ALL to read to the--THEN post thoughtful comments

[busymom]

5. I have a feeling...

This will not get many answers. Hillary hatred? Hang onto your hats. Handshake gate? woooha. Issues? boring.

[rodeodance]

6. gosh, ain't that the truth.

[busymom]

7. I have the feeling

people will go to the polls this year based on their 'feelings' about the candidates and not based on the ideas that they hope to represent.

[hertopos]

12. And the reality check...

There are not that much at stake with younger people, I guess.

I thought they care about energy and environment.

Hertopos

[rodeodance]

4. I have acedimic friends in Norway, Sweden and Denmark--they loves their healthcare system

[Hieronymus]

19. They all DO love their coverage. I'd feel better if Hillary hadn't accepted

so much money from the insurance companies. They will NEVER allow real single payer.

[busymom]

22. I don't think we WANT a single payer system

I know that is like a slap in the face of the idea of healthcare for all, but it isn't. There is something good about a small amount of healthy competition in the market, I think. The problem that we have now is that corporate greed has taken over...and even in the health insurance industry it has become about multi-million dollar CEO salaries and denying benefits

And yet still...without the competition, people lose the ability to choose or put pressure on the system. Our politicians will not do that for us.

My mom is covered by the govt becaue of her military service in Vietnam....and she chooses to pay out of pocket for a lot of care because the govt. docs and treatments can be subpar... :o Not all of them, but she is in Dallas and the Military hospital there has the highest rate of surgical infections of all VA facilities.

Our govt. is not adept at running these things.

I hate that corporations have the power that they do and that the lawsuit culture has driven up healthcare costs...and yet at the same time, it does exert a system of checks and balances.

[Hieronymus]

23. It doesn't surprise me that a Hillary supporter has that opinion. Single payer

simply means that govenment pays the PRIVATE physicians..who are free to practice as they wish. The patient can chose any physician that he or she wishes.


This is what the Economist had to say:

May 20, 2004

FRENCH HEALTHCARE....The Economist provides a capsule summary of healthcare in France:

Its hospitals gleam. Waiting-lists are non-existent. Doctors still make home visits. Life expectancy is two years longer than average for the western world.

....For the patient, the French health system is still a joy. Same-day appointments can be made easily; if one doctor's advice displeases, you can consult another, a habit known as nomadisme médical. Individual hospital rooms are the norm. Specialists can be consulted without referral. And while the patient pays up front, almost all the money is reimbursed, either through the public insurance system or a top-up private policy.

For family doctors too, liberty prevails. They are self-employed, can set up a practice where they like, prescribe what they like, and are paid per consultation. As the health ministry's own diagnosis put it recently: “The French system offers more freedom than any other in the world.”

And despite the Economist's scary headline, which proclaims that "crisis looms," the French system provides this service to everyone in the country and does it for less than half the cost per person of the U.S. Even if they decide to raise taxes to cover a growing deficit in their healthcare fund (the subject of the Economist's article) their costs will still be less than half ours per person.

Now, there are undoubtedly drawbacks to the French system. They probably have fewer high-tech machines than we do, and the comparative cost figures may be skewed by the American love of elective procedures. Still, there would have to be a lot of drawbacks to make their system less attractive than ours.

So why not adopt it? Well, that would be socialized medicine. Can't have that, can we? After all, everyone knows that when you socialize something it automatically declines slowly into anarchy and uselessness. Right?

[no name no slogan]

8. NONE of our candidates proposed a UK-style system

where the doctors and nurses are government employees. Even the single payer system proposed by Kucinich left the actual caregiving to private entities (clinics, doctors, hospitals). All it did was replace the for-profit insurance businesses with a single government-sponsored entity, much like the systems in Scandanavia and Canada.

Unless there is a provision in Hillary's plan to GET BIG INSURANCE OUT OF THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY COMPLETELY, we will not have affordable "universal" coverage. Most Americans understand that. Unfortunately, our top-tier candidates do not.

[busymom]

11. Though I agree in theory

That big business sucks....There isn't a single democratic candidate...not ONE...who will be able to put that through. It's like saying "get rid of gas stations and replace them all with ethanol stations/solar driven cars tomorrow" or we won't be able to drive our cars anymore.

What the top-tier candidates are in touch with is the sad reality of the world as it is today....and they each want to try and begin the process of making change.

The democrats WILL need the support of their democratic and republican colleagues to pass any healthcare reform. We aren't voting for a dictator here.....We have to begin the steps towards some form of universal healthcare in a way that is REALISTIC for this country. The corporations need to be subjected to a system of checks and balances.

But be honest with yourself. Do you really think you would be better off covered by a system that is run by our GOVT? God help us all....Medicare is a massive failure....they don't reimburse well enough for tests, doctor's visits/hospital stays to even come close and many practices are now beginning to refuse to see medicare patients... There HAS to be a middle ground. It is not all or nothing.

[hertopos]

13. Exactly, and Hillary is the one who went through it...

I just cannot understand why anyone call her 'everything is calculate for her gain, etc...

She and Bill clearly learned to compromise so that we get some thing better. For example, everyone forget about the fact Bill passed CObra.
That helped me quite a bit when I was laid-off.

Hertopos

[no name no slogan]

18. Yes, I DO think a gov't service would be better

I used to work in government for a government-run healthcare system (specifically, Human Services). I have also worked for a Fortune 500 Life/Health insurance company. And say what you will about government bureaucracy, the bureaucracy I saw in corporate America is FAR worse and FAR better at wasting money.

Medicare/Medicaid are far more efficient at providing coverage than the private sector. And Health Canada is far more efficient than any private sector insurance company, too. People will get sick of seeing their expenses go up, their coverage go down, and big healthcare get richer and richer.

We will eventually get a Canadian-style system in this country, and we'll get it the same way they did: their corporations will get sick of getting gouged each year by big healthcare's rising premiums. We're getting closer and closer to that point already, as benefit costs for many employers are now 15%+ of their annual budgets.

Until we control the insurance industry (or better yet, get it out of the health care business), we'll continue down the same tired path of "reform" after reform, unfunded mandate after unfunded mandate.

[hertopos]

9. Thank you for your post

My daughter is autistic. After some intervention, she is emotionally very well-developed and happy. Her only major problem is speech and language delay though in certain area she is actually ahead of her healthy peer.

Parents with autistic children are in dis alley both financially and emotionally. Normal Health insurance does not cover early intervention program, which turned out to be the most effective so far. If autistic kids are in early intervention program ( typically at the age of 3-6 ), many of them can be reintegrated since most autism does not hamper cognitive delay.

Right now, I am paying about 4000 a month by taking Home equity line of credit. Kids who did not go through 'early intervention program' tends to progress much severe form of autism in time and much harder to readjust when they finally are admitted into public program.

I know Hillary's Universal Health care is not as good as we may hope. However, there are 2 big advantages over anyone else.

1. It is doable in this country.
2. Hillary can make it work from day one with her experience and competency.

I have a faith in Hillary's heart as a mother. I also understand and accept that she has to make a compromise to get at lease some thing done.

I cannot afford 'all or nothing' attitudes of young Obama supporter...

Hertopos

[busymom]

14. I'm sorry

That you are having to use the equity from your home to finance something like this. Are there any local organizations that might be willing or able to help out? Have you looked at Helping Hand?

http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/helpinghand.php

Kris

[hertopos]

20. I am doing ok because

I am fortunate enough to be modestly successful in real estate investment. Right now, we are very red but when my husband finish, things should be better. I also started my own new business and this is another reason why we are so red.

I only know people who are making income of at least professional class. ( House hold income of low 6 fig.) Many does what we do.

People who need help are people who cannot even do what we are doing.

In case of autism, getting a proper diagnosis itself is a very complicated thing. There are public program and we did not like what we got. It took us 2 years to find what we got now.

You may also know the fact there is an alarming rate of autism lately.
Whenever I tell someone that my daughter is autistic, that someone usually knows some other who has autistic kids.

BTW, did you see Sicko?

You know what, I have a gut feeling that Hillary may take her healthcare plan to more like real universal one once she gets mandate.
Universal healthcare was one of her signiture policy to start with.

Thank you for your input.

Hertopos

[busymom]

21. I agree...

...and I also know a few people struggling with the issue of autism and their child...It seems that getting a proper diagnosis is usually very expensive...and those who I know that have chosen to go through the school districts find themselves often unhappy that they lose a lot of control as a parent of what happens...I think it depends on the school and the counselors/teachers there though.

[hertopos]

10. This is the very first time I do this K&R ...nt