Hillary is not going to lose on Iraq

[boston bean]

Remember a hefty majority of Americans were for the war.

They just might understand her position.

[ingac70]

1. At least the ones that used to be for it...

have no issue saying going there was a mistake!

[MoonRiver]

2. Plus, people are a lot more tuned into issues like health care and the economy right now.

That's what they're going to be voting on, not Senate decisions made 6 years ago. Hillary wants to get US out of Iraq asap. That will resonate along with her excellent domestic positions.

[kikiek]

3. Just talking to a friend. Reminded her that we were in the minority and had signs stolen and nasty

notes left because of being against it.

[Middle finga]

4. No, regular americans depended on her to make the right decision

and to be honest, she's a senator she had access to information the average american didn't have. The reason so many americans agreed with the war is because they trusted their politicians judgement

[sandnsea]

5. No she'll lose on mandated health care

And it's too bad Democrats don't understand that.

[Thrill]

6. You really believe that?

[boston bean]

10. yep, i do.

[Thrill]

20. I don't see people everyday

forgiving on Iraq. If so the Repukes would be in a good position

[AndyTiedye]

38. McCain, the Most Hawkish Repig Running, IS in a Good Position

McCain is the front-running Repiglickin, and ties or beats our candidates in matchups.
Seems that supporting the horrible unpopular war is not hurting him AT ALL.

We ran against the Vietnam war in 1972. 70% of the people agreed with our position. We lost every state except Massachusetts.

[951-Riverside]

7. If you look at it that way, Bush was only following the will of the people

...right ;)

[pampango]

49. Ouch, ain't that the truth. The RW always accuses the Clintons have being poll-driven

when they take a stand. I hate to see someone who supports Hillary's IWR vote, excuse it on the basis that it was popular in the polls at the time.

[557188]

8. It's strategy

Hillary defending the vote is a defense against the Republicans calling her a flip flopper.

[newmajority]

9. A lot of Americans believed the FAUX Noize bullshit

Hillary should have known better. She didn't follow the facts, she followed AIPAC's orders.

[Joe the Revelator]

11. Whistling past the graveyard

nt

[rodeodance]

12. umm.. I think people in general give her some leeway on that issuee (not the 'far ' lefties on du)

[Leopolds Ghost]

50. Interesting how the pro-war "liberals" come out of woodwork now that the DLC takeover is complete

It's morning in America again!!!

[Dawgs]

13. You couldn't be more wrong.

Americans realize now that they were fooled by Bush and those that supported the war.

They realize that Obama was right, and Hillary was wrong. Remember, she had the intelligence. They trusted her and she failed them.

[demo dutch]

19. They won't get it buddy! Already the war has taken a step back!

[guruoo]

33. Didn't Obama vote to fund it? n/t

[cooolandrew]

64. Democrats have always funded the war in the cause of troops safety.

[guruoo]

65. I think they'd be safer at home, don't you?

[demo dutch]

14. Sure!

[KittyWampus]

15. few will admit ever being FOR it.

[KennedyGuy]

16. Yep..she's kicking ass and taking names..

[Inuca]

67. Taking names - how nice

Too bad I already voted, now that I know about this I am sorry I did not vote for her.

Are you for real?!?!?

[Kittycat]

17. The people that elected her, expected her to make an informed decisiion. She didn't.

And here we are.

[demo dutch]

21. people have moved on to the economy, every polls indicated that, They're

moving on!

[boston bean]

27. All that matters about the Iraq war now is whether they will end it or not.

Both of them will end it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

51. No, they will both leave permanent bases in Iraq to protect US oil companies contract rights

To the de-nationalized (privatized, sold to oil corporations) oil reserves policed by Iraqi soldiers. They will be sent out on nightly "police" actions to chase rebels away from the pipelines which is all we care about. Of course naive center-left Democrats in this country who support Hillary do not understand what US foreign policy in the region is about because they (unlike the actual neoliberal interests) have no investments.

[no name no slogan]

18. It's still the economy, stupid

Iraq is not at the top of Americans' concerns right now. The economy is.

[Moochy]

54. And what buys tanks and bombs>?

Is it gumdrops, magic beans and rainbows that Bush uses to buy the machinery of war?

Might the economy stupid be related to the war stupid?

stupid.

[krkaufman]

22. Well, the problem is that her inconsistency will be used against her.

And you give our fellow citizens far too much credit.

[southern_dem]

23. She lost me

"It was a mistake" is all she had to say; not a 5 minute rambling weak defense.

[lapfog_1]

24. Very wishful thinking.

Much along the lines I just heard on MSNBC from Craig Crawford.

He says the america might be approving the war in Iraq by the fall, so this is GOOD that Clinton was pro-war and voted for the IWR.

People might be less "get the hell out right this second" because the war has fallen off the front page (but soldiers are dying and the rate is increasing again). But America has decided that the war was a bad move. And way too costly in lives and money. They THOUGHT they were going to get a repeat of the first Gulf war, (cool videos, bombs eye view, over in 48 hours). But that's not what they got. Four thousand dead, forty thousand wounded and many maimed, over a trillion spent and another potential trillion to go to pay for the veterans care.

No one, no matter what happens now, is going to think the war was a smart idea.

It's a millstone around the neck of Hillary.

[stillcool]

25. I remember...

very well the protests before that war.

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. A hefty majority were for the war. They now know they were lied to.

By Hillary, among others.

She's on the armed services committee. Think she didn't really know the truth?

[scheming daemons]

28. Then she should have said "I was wrong"

that simple.

She refused to do so.... and may have lost the nomination over it.

[boston bean]

31. she has said she wouldn't vote for it, if she had known then what she knows now. nt

[Politicub]

29. It will work in her favor during the general should she become our nominee

[Leopolds Ghost]

53. Amazing -- now that Edwards supporters are bleeding away, Hillaryites are lurching DU to the right

coming out of the woodwork to tell us that the war is not an issue we should be worried about and that her "strong and principled stand" in favor of the war will help her, not hurt her.

So this is the "silent majority" of conservative "middle class" Dems we keep hearing about. They were cowed by the Dean revolution on the blogosphere which is now, thanks to the purging of the Democratic candidate ranks, over.

[guruoo]

30. In the end, it will be domestic issues that determine the result...

Same as it ever was.

[City Lights]

32. Already did.

[Straight Shooter]

34. If Iraq is tied to national security issues, she'll come out ahead

I wish I had saved the link to the poll (it was posted on DU a few days ago), but overall Hillary scores much higher in terms of trust when it comes to national security. This will be a major issue for any Dem candidate who goes against McCain.

This is something which worries me, Barack going against McCain in this arena, unless he becomes extremely well-versed in foreign policy.

All other arenas, I think it's roughly equal as to which side will have the advantage. Of course, Barack can always play the age card.

[Leopolds Ghost]

55. So Hillary folks are happy she supported Iraq war because it means she can be trusted to defend us

So that is the Democratic Party's new message now that Edwards is out and Hillary's lone opponent is left to tack to the right in order to catch up with Hillary, who can now busy herself tacking even further right to begin a general election campaign in February.

[BlackVelvet04]

35. Not to mention it is NOT at the top of the list of

concerns with Americans right now. Poll after poll has shown that.

[subsuelo]

36. Nope. She already lost on Iraq

She lost when she voted to give Bush the authority to go to war.

Maybe Americans were for the war at one point. But this is a choice now between one or the other, and Obama made the right call from day one - that is the difference and that is why she loses on this issue.

[CarolNYC]

37. I watched it online....

and from 9PM on, I watched it with the real-time reaction meter from whatever group of undecided voters they had there. On the IWR answer, although it was her lowest scored answer of the night, she still registered anywhere between 5 and 10 points above Obama's meter reading when he was speaking about the IWR....For that hour, the real-time reactor gave every answer to Hillary....She was up around 70 and higher on just about every answer. Barack was hovering between 50 and 60 for the most part with some approaches toward 70.

Oh, and the reactors LOVED her "takes a Clinton to clean up after the second Bush" line.....

[Leopolds Ghost]

57. I love how the ignorant pooh-bahs reacted positively to her "It takes a dynasty" Pakistanism

Yes, and I bet it takes a Tudor to clean up after the second Windsor. I
bet it takes a Miller to wash down the bad taste of the second Budweiser.
They are ignorant fools who believe in Cinderella tales of blood aristocracy
ruling over their hapless asses. At least in feudalism the nobles had obligations
to the working class.

[Moochy]

62. It takes a village.. it takes a *

It takes a Clinton to sweep the Bush crimes under the rug.

Great post as usual Leopolds Ghost! :kick:

[BuyingThyme]

39. You are totally wrong.

The American people trusted the UN over Bush when it came to going to war in Iraq.

The American people "supported" the war once it was on because that's what the American people do.

[sjdnb]

40. Bush ignored the intent and requirements of the legislation ...

he is the criminal - not the Dems who, IMO, were just trying to pressure Saddam into complying with the UN resolutions.

But, I doubt many here actually read the resolution:http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

Or, Clinton's statement made at the time:
http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

[Leopolds Ghost]

58. What about the folks coming out on this thread hinting they're not all that opposed to the war?

I guess it wasn't all that much of a crime after all... these folks are itching to purge the left from the ranks and go back to the 1990's, when Reaganism was normalized by the Clinton administration and made part of the Democratic platform in return for a promise of Democratic rule in
return for acceptance of the Reagan revolution.

[agdlp]

41. Obama Anti-war voice muted in Senate

Once elected to the U.S. Senate, however, his anti-war voice became muted. Obama supported unconditional funding for the Iraq War in both 2005 and 2006. And–despite her false testimonies before Congress and her mismanagement of Iraq policy before, during, and after the U.S. invasion in her role as National Security Advisor–Obama broke with most of his liberal colleagues in the Senate by voting to confirm Condoleezza Rice as secretary of state during his first weeks in office.

Obama didn’t even make a floor speech on the war until a full year after his election. In it, he called for a reduction in the number of U.S. troops but no timetable for their withdrawal. In June 2006, he voted against an amendment by Senators Russ Feingold and John Kerry for such a timetable.

In addition, during the 2006 Democratic congressional primaries, he campaigned for pro-war incumbents–including Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman against his eventually victorious primary challenger Ned Lamont–and other conservative Democrats fighting back more progressive anti-war challengers.

[Perky]

42. But they are mad about the war.

Particulary Democrate and swing voters. I think it might keep her from the nomination

[DURHAM D]

43. Yep - about 70% of the population were for going to

war thanks to the MSM and W.H. lies.

Actually, Hillary was against going to war. She voted for a resolution that was for purpose of strength in diplomacy - she was never for "going to war". MSM and political opponents false construct.

[Leopolds Ghost]

59. Wrong. Hillary gave a speech endorsing the bombings and urging the inspectors to leave

She endorsed Gephardt's "Rose Garden" strategy.

[VotesForWomen]

44. uh, people, dems chose *Kerry* in 2004; we've already been there and done that. apparently

nobody cared then and they're not going to care now.

[demo dutch]

45. Good post!

[Leopolds Ghost]

60. So Dems support the pro-war candidate because it's sensible, even if the person is bound to lose?

At least Kerry outspokenly believed we would not go to war over the IWR and pledged to oppose an outbreak of hostilities. Hillary actively got on board when the bombing began.

[ihelpu2see]

46. Like I have said before, any average person with a computer could have found out that Bush was lying

why couldn't she?? She has been voting in the Senate knowing she was going to run and has made far too many bad decisions because of it...

[BeyondGeography]

47. Iraq is a metaphor for unprincipled, calculating overly politicized behavior

and that's why it's such a big problem for her.

[bigtree]

48. not only that

they shared her trust that Bush would follow his word and use the authorization as a stick to back up the diplomacy; the same way we've always done. You are correct. A good majority of Americans took Bush at his word.

[Leopolds Ghost]

61. The same way we've always done, i.e. as international criminal behavior on the US part

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. And that explains why Clinton has any support at all.

[Barack_America]

56. Um, have you looked at Bush's approval ratings lately?

Have you looked at how many Americans currently support the war?

The big difference is that Hillary and the others who voted for the war had A LOT more information available to them than did Joe Public...even if they didn't read it.

[cooolandrew]

63. Barack's point is there needs to be clear daylight between our nominee and McCain...

...Barack has that whatever way you cut it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

66. the key word is "WERE"

the word is now and the majority are AGAINST the war.

[MadHound]

68. Keep whistling past that graveyard

If Hillary gets the nomination, she will lose much of the anti-war vote. They will either go third party or stay home. Millions and millions of votes gone, poof. Combine that with the fact that in a Hillary-McCain matchup, many of those centerist Dems and Independents will immediately go to McCain. Hillary is a losing proposition in the general election, and much of that is directly due to her vote on the war, her ongoing support of the war, and her saber rattling at Iran.

But hey, whatever gets you through the night:eyes:

[Politicub]

69. If she is our nominee, that will be an asset