MoveOn stabs Clinton in the back, endorses Obama despite his snub on the Petraeus ad vote.

[MethuenProgressive]

MoveOn polled "a rotating sample" of 30K members over and over, and claims their members support *not* the candidate who stood with them when the Petraeus Ad Controvesy made it to the Senate floor, but support the candidate who ducked out of the Senate to cowardly snub them and dodge the vote.
Maybe he skipped out to look for his good ol' Yellow Present button.

[Clarkansas]

1. I guess moveon must REALLY dislike Hillary then. eom

[SoFlaJet]

2. Call the Whaaambulance

for your information it was not MoveOn that chose Obama over Hillary it was a membership vote taken through an E-mail campaign

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

7. less than 10% of the membership voted.

Wonder why?

[DUyellow]

33. show me any poll that samples more than 10%

[Jed Dilligan]

61. That's a very high rate of return for an e-mail poll. nt

[TexasBushwhacker]

74. It was a 24 hour poll!

10% response in that amount of time is huge, and it's a hell of a lot bigger sample than most of the polls out there.

[rodeodance]

83. still pretty low for 24 hours --show me the stats for your claims and I might believe you.

[TexasBushwhacker]

92. Read 'em and weap

Most samples rarely top 1000, even from the big guys like Gallup, Rasmussen & Zogby.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/democratic_presidential_nomination-191.html#polls

[rodeodance]

108. Thank you. I learned something. But the only thing I weep

for is the fact that Moveon took this devisive poll among Dems.

[TexasBushwhacker]

119. Fair enough

But at least they set a 2/3 standard, which Obama met. FWIW, I'm an undecided Edwards supporter.

[hfojvt]

98. a random sample is a different thing than an internet poll

but it is like any primary election, it is decided by turnout.

[Dogmudgeon]

10. Bandwagons are not intelligent things

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect

The Obama supporters can read it and gain an understanding of how politics works for and against them, or simply try to shout me down. But that all depends on how strongly they want to "be the change (they) want to see in the world".

--p!

[SoFlaJet]

17. Why do more and more DEMOCRATS

seem to really dislike Clinton? She's gaining on Joe LIEberman pre-last election as the most hated dem in congress

[CanonRay]

44. She's not even on the same chart as Lieberman.

I despise Lieberman.

[Dogmudgeon]

80. Why do billions of FLIES

really like to eat shit?

If you are trying to sell me on the wisdom of an adoring crowd, you are going to have to do better.

Online Hillary hatred is not the common opinion of Democrats. Even most Obama supporters like her; they just prefer Obama. It's YOUR small world that hates her, and without reason.

--p!

[rodeodance]

85. oh please do not like another Dem with JOE L> please.

[mitchtv]

3. Big mistake to take sides

Note to self: block Move on spam

[gaiilonfong]

4. NO PROBLEM there are a few million more members

and getting stronger

[NoPasaran]

16. I agree with you there that it's a mistake

But I believe that MoveOn had conducted a poll in 2003 or 2004 about endorsing a candidate in the primary. Howard Dean had "won" it, but didn't cross whatever threshold they had set for an endorsement. If they had done this a few weeks ago, with more candidates in the race, Obama probably would have fallen short of the 67 percent.

I unsubscribed from all the MoveOn emails back in 2005, when I realized that all they consisted of were appeals to sign endless internet petitions and requests for donations.

[rodeodance]

87. yes, it was a mistake on their part. I

dropped the send me info. and wrote them a NASTY!

[xultar]

5. How is it a stab in the back? What is it with the fucking rhetoric on this board?

Stab in the back
Slap in the face?

Anyone who wanted to donate and pick a candidate for MoveOn could. IT was a brilliant fundraiser.

DU is really losing it.

[MethuenProgressive]

34. She stood with MoveOn on the Senate floor, while Barack snuck out the side door.

That's a stab in the back.

[xultar]

39. They didn't want to support her anyway. I don't see it as a stab @ all.

IF they did they would have done it anyway.

They saw a way to easily make money from enthusiastic Obama supporters and they did. In the GE a MoveOn endorsement won't be seen as so exciting.

[rodeodance]

110. well, i do not like knife imagery--used her as a doormat--wiped their feet on her after she stuck up

for them:0)

[AZBlue]

82. I wish I could recommend a post

I'd definitely recommend this one!

[VolcanoJen]

93. Amen to that

There's a post down below somewhere saying Obama supporters are "low on the food chain."

Whatever in the hell that means. :eyes:

[Maribelle]

100. Please give us a link to that post where it says Obama supporters are.

I read one that said: Hillary supporters are warm, loving, and animated when objects lower on the food chain try to attack.

Shucks, that one didn't say a thing about Obama Supporters. :evilgrin:

[VolcanoJen]

103. Look, you're kinda going off the rails here.

I mean, are you honestly proud of saying something like that?

[Maribelle]

114. Saying something like what?

Asking for a link to what you said?

[MyNameGoesHere]

6. MoveOn is probably close to DU

in membership. In fact i think most here are members so no surprise really.

[Maribelle]

8. Unbelievable! And totally illogical.

Were they under any pressure from the hate-Hillary-net-creeps to have a vote, and become just biased political hacks?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. They thought Obama was a better candidate.

But considering his opponent, that's not saying much.

[Maribelle]

22. They thought? lol

Sure they did.


Acting on raw emotional instincts is not thinking.


Ask any alligator.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. "Acting on raw emotional instincts is not thinking."

It doesn't seem to be working for you either.

[sharp_stick]

42. LOL n/t

[rodeodance]

89. BINGO BINGO

[leveymg]

9. There was a vote. 2/3 endorsed Obama. How is this "betrayal"?

May not have been the smartest thing for the group to take sides. But, it wouldn't be their first misstep.

As for the "Gen. Betrayus" campaign, that was just provocative and counter-productive. MoveOn has made some mistakes, but having the membership vote on endorsement is hardly a betrayal. :eyes:

[flpoljunkie]

11. Unsubscribed from MoveOn because of their boneheaded Petraeus ad. Good for Obama for not pandering!

[SoFlaJet]

27. So you bought into the RW hate machine's

rhetoric and condemned them for speaking the truth?

[flpoljunkie]

54. No, as I said, it was a"boneheaded" move which helped the Republicans to sell Petraeus and the surge

Do you deny that? Eli Pariser himself said it was a mistake, as I recall.

[greguganus]

77. I just subscribed! n/t

:hi:

[rodeodance]

91. I am not into empty suits with Glitter as the icing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. So you are saying to they should have endorse Clinton...

to curry political favors?

Sounds corrupt.

[Political Heretic]

13. Egggggggggggcellent. *stokey beard*

:D

[amborin]

15. seriously?

they sent me a polling email today, now i wish i had responded to it negagatively

what a sell out

[jenmito]

36. I hope you feel better soon.

:hi:

[amborin]

96. oh, it's you again

thought you were an edwards supporter?

[suston96]

18. Any demographics on moveon.org membership?

[VolcanoJen]

19. Uh, No. 280,528 MoveOn Members voted.

Obama: 197,444 (70.4%)
Clinton: 83,084 (29.6%

[Maribelle]

29. Out of 3.5 million? Shessh, that's a paltry number for such a critical decision.

It sure sounds like the squeaky wheel syndrome to me.

lol

[VolcanoJen]

32. Well, it wasn't 30,000 as the OP insists...

... and Clinton supporters sure seem upset about it enough to insist they'll "cancel" their MoveOn memberships, so it's significant enough, I suppose.

200,000+ progressives voting online is actually a pretty significant sample... if you don't agree, then please urge all of us to refrain from posting polls, which generally sample 1,000 or fewer voters.

[MethuenProgressive]

37. "MoveOn surveyed a rotating sample of 30,000 members each week"

Today's endorsement is the first time MoveOn.org has endorsed a candidate for President in the Democratic primary. Over the past year, MoveOn surveyed a rotating sample of 30,000 members each week to determine their membership's preference in the Democratic presidential primary. For months, MoveOn members were divided among many candidates -- as many waited to see who would take bold progressive positions on the issues. As the primary race has gained momentum, the polling showed a consensus forming and, with Senator John Edward's withdrawal from the race, members made their decision in favor of Senator Obama. The vote took place from Thursday, January 31st to Friday, February 1st.

http://moveon.org/press/pr/obamaendorsementrelease.html

[Maribelle]

47. Don't you just love those "bold progressive positions on the issues" Obama makes

with his not voting?

The truth is I have yet to see even one of these net-roots Hillary haters intelligently discuss actual issues, let alone bold progressive positions such as universal health that Obama falls so far short on. If you have, I would truly love to hear about it. But please don't give me a link. I've long stopped going to those dark dungeons because of the dank smell they emit.

Hillary-haters remind me of the thirty-three percenters that wanted President Clinton impeached because they had their noses stuck in his zipper - - only there are far less Hillary-haters.


Please forgive my rant. I got carried away. :hi:

[ClassWarrior]

56. Facts emit a dank smell??

"Please don't give me a link. I've long stopped going to those dark dungeons because of the dank smell they emit."

That about sums it up for most of the Clinton defenders here.

NGU.

[Maribelle]

63. A dungeon is an inanimate object. Like a web site is an inanimate object.

Hillary supporters are warm, loving, and animated when objects lower on the food chain try to attack.

:toast:

[VolcanoJen]

81. Let's see... "Most Liberal Senator." Endorsed by Ted Kennedy.

Endorsed by Caroline Kennedy. Endorsed by the members of MoveOn.

All parts of the dank dungeon you describe?

I have never in my life been a Hillary-hater. I adore Senator Clinton and her President, the best President of my lifetime. But this election, I have chosen to vote for another candidate. No matter how many times DUers try to tell me I'm stupid, I've been charmed, and that I'm an awful person dedicated to betraying progressive causes, my resolve to work for and cast my ballot for Barack Obama increases practically daily.

It's fine to be upset about MoveOn members not endorsing Senator Clinton. I'd have been very surprised had they endorsed her, given the IWR vote. But it's just not the end of the world, ok?

[Maribelle]

90. I truly do not believe that most that support Obama hate Hillary. The opposite.

And I sincerely support your decision.

But, I must add, the amount of Hillary hating I have seen coming out of blogs I formerly went to on a regular basis almost made me throw up.

I started out this primary season supporting John Edwards. I still love John and his beloved Elizabeth. But the bashing of Hillary here at DU, and the sheer unadulterated hatred I found at too many blogs motivated me to research all of Hillary's positions to see what was up. It was through this I found Hillary was more appealing to me from a political point of view.

I no longer ever even stop by the blogs I once visited on a regular basis because I clearly saw the hate totally from an unbiased position.

[amborin]

99. totally agree

Hillary is a brilliant progressive

always has been....

i've yet to see Obama and company delve into the details of their agenda for change

and....why tout 'republicans as party of ideas'?????

why not cite the dems New Deal? or many other instances of brilliant dem programs?

unbelievable

[rodeodance]

115. OH--i do love your rant--carry on:-)

[VolcanoJen]

88. The survey of 30,000 members and yesterday's actual vote are two different things

That press release is a bit confusing, but the vote that occurred Thursday involved ALL MoveOn members. A ballot was sent to ALL members, and 250,000+ members responded with their vote.

From the MoveOn email sent out Thursday:

Here's how MoveOn's endorsement process works:

- Everyone who is a MoveOn member as of noon Eastern on Wednesday, January 30th, and will be at least 18 years old by November 4th, 2008 gets one vote.
- Voting lasts now through 11:00 a.m. Eastern tomorrow—Friday, February 1st. This will allow MoveOn to make an endorsement in time to make a difference on Super Tuesday.
- MoveOn will only endorse a candidate if more than 2/3 of our members select that candidate. These are the same rules MoveOn has applied in contested Democratic congressional primaries. If MoveOn endorses a candidate, we will immediately start campaigning for that candidate.
- If no candidate receives more than 2/3 of the votes cast, MoveOn will encourage members to vote and play an active role in the primary process, but will not endorse at this time.
- We are taking extra security measures to protect the integrity of the vote. A random sampling of voters will get verification phone calls after voting. We've also ensured that each ballot is unique to one MoveOn member—so forwarding links will not allow more people to vote.

[amborin]

101. i voted for Hill yesterday

but filled in the moveon self evaluation poll today, not knowing they had endorsed Obama

how come they didn't announce those vote results first?

but they lost me some time ago when they wanted gasoline prices lowered

folks in Europe have always been paying way more for gasoline

only higher prices will help motivate folks to get out of those monster SUVs and start getting energy conscious....and, there are feasible ways to compensate low SES workers who would suffer from the higher pump prices

also....thought moveon's decision to run that patreus ad *prior to* his actual speech was a mistake, cost the org unnecessary bad publicity

[Maribelle]

41. You have a problem with the Clinton supporters being upset?

The squeaky wheel syndrome, it seems, is morphing into the screaming yellow banshees syndrome. Those paltry numbers you gave truly do not support that plantation putty dripping from your words.

[VolcanoJen]

106. Screaming yellow banshees? Plantation putty???!!

Good gawd. He's Barack Obama, not Newt f'n Gingrich.

Get a grip. Take some deep breaths or something.

[Maribelle]

120. I'm talking about the squeaky wheels , not Obama, not you.

Sorry, if I was not clear, or made mistakes in my post that were confusing.

[Skip Intro]

20. Cancelling my membership now.

They shouldn\'t have taken sides.

[ClassWarrior]

24. LOL - How do you "cancel your membership" to MoveOn??

:rofl:

NGU.

[MagsDem]

46. You get removed from their obnoxious mailing list

... that they overuse the hell out of to beg for money. :)

[ClassWarrior]

50. So because you get spam from porn vendors, does that mean you're a member??

:rofl:

And if you think MoveOn "overuses the hell out of" their email list "to beg for money," you should have removed yourself a long time ago.

NGU.

[MagsDem]

55. When you have to sign up, yes, that would indicate you are a member

I would guess that is why Move On calls them "Move On Members" wouldn't you?

I swear, stupid posts like these by Obama supporters explain just how it is he can convince people that we should just drop the dem agenda and cave into the rethug agenda.

[ClassWarrior]

58. I'm not an Obama supporter.

When you assume, you make an "ass" out of "u."

NGU.

[MagsDem]

69. If it quacks like a duck, it's a duck

[ClassWarrior]

76. Sorry I don't fit one of your closed-minded little labels.

Must be awfully confusing for you.

NGU.

[DemCam]

102. Haven't paid attention to them since the middle of the 2004 election.

I loved them when they were the only people who had the gumption to speak
out against the impeachment...but they lost me as a rational force.

[ClassWarrior]

21. As opposed to a trivial vote like the Blank Check for Invasion.

:eyes:

NGU.

[AtomicKitten]

26. Many Clinton supporters here have declared they are fine with her vote on the IWR.

But it's this democratic internets poll regarding an endorsement that cannot be endured.

indeed.

[VolcanoJen]

28. Oh, my.

What an excellent point. ;-)

[Maribelle]

35. lol Democratic internet poll? It's more like he who screams the loudest.

Nothing democratic about that.

[floridablue]

23. Saves me $ no longer having to support them.

[TooBigaTent]

30. I think this "vote" says more about the Obama crowd than MoveOn. It shows

that they are enthusiastic about the candidate without really caring about what he stands for. For them, a winning candidate is more important than defending free speech or confronting the enemy. With BO's love for the right, it is to be expected.

Disappointing, but expected.

[MagsDem]

49. Bingo!

But you have to admit, it's ironic. I never thought I would see a Joe Lieberman type democrat pull the wool over so many people's eyes. I mean here you have the base of the party, that is supposed to be fighting the rethug agenda, and one can only watch in horror as these same fools worship at the feet of someone that tells them they have to work with rethugs.

It's as if we don't have ample evidence that when dems "work with" rethugs it translates into rethug policies being enacted. I've always said it was hard being a democrat -- right agenda, bad representatives with no spine. Now we have millions of dem voters that are being led over a cliff like lemmings by a man that is telling them it's a good idea to turn the party into rethug lite. Sad day for democrats.

[rodeodance]

112. yes, his love for the right is what is scary

[jenmito]

31. I hope you feel better soon.

:hi:

[paulk]

38. I doubt Clinton would have wanted MoveOn's endorsement

Obama is welcome to it, AFAIC.

[MagsDem]

59. I agree, it will hurt him bad if he gets to the GE

The rethugs will pound that one. But it's still a shame to see a group like Move On abandon all pretense of fighting against the political agenda of the right by endorsing a guy who campaigns on pandering to rethugs. It's a sad day for progressive policy in this country. May well be the death knell.

[Maribelle]

65. Perhaps you're correct. She will not receive all the bad press regarding George Soros.

Wasn't he a Kerry supporter, too?

[Occam Bandage]

40. Wow. MoveOn must really not like her to endorse Obama despite HRC's pandering.

[Larkspur]

43. I voted for Hillary in that poll because I had no option for "No Endorsement"

I thought MoveOn.org should have stayed out unless over 75% of its members voted for one or the other.

[MagsDem]

45. It's their members, not them....

And the facts are that Obama supporters don't really know jack about their guy. They are caught up like a cult worshipping Jim Jones. They don't know any real facts about his votes, how he says one thing and does another. That he ducks out on any controversial votes. That he panders to whomever he is in front of. This guy is the very definition of a snake oil salesman. But Move On people don't pay attention to those kind of details.

[PassingFair]

64. Hillary's war vote has made her TOXIC.

That is why people will vote for Obama, even though
they know very little about him.

Oh, the irony of Hillary support!

[Maribelle]

73. And even though they are too lazy to research Obama's speech you call Hillary toxic over this??

Obama never once in his speech, then or now, or ever, gave any factual information on which he based the information in his speech. And if you compare his speech to a few U.S. Senator's speeches that were given two weeks before Obama's, you'll see where Obama got too much of his pivotal points.

Obama never for a second explained how "he knew" or what information he examined to determine "he knew".

This total and unconvincing free pass given by those that have voted for him at MoveOn is sad and truly stupid.

You talk about lemmings, Obama supporters? Your cause will melt faster than sugar in the rain.

God help us all.

[rodeodance]

113. Obams puches a lot--he tends to FOLLOW the LEADER (clinton--or edwards)

you'll see where Obama got too much of his pivotal points.

[amborin]

105. why blame Hillary for Bush and crew's lies?

they presented congress with twisted concocted phoney 'evidence'

all that crap about the aluminum tubing and the yellow cake

and twisted the various intelligence agencies' arms to get the reports that would support their insane invasion

so why blame hillary? she was presented concocted lies

direct your rage at the rightful target

[PassingFair]

116. The majority of House Democrats saw through Bush's lies.

They voted NAY.

23 other Senators voted NAY.

I blame Hillary because she is partly responsible
for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent
people and the SHAME of America throughout the world.

She was either DUPED, UNLIKE MOST of our democratic representatives,
or she deliberately enabled them.

Either way, until she apologizes, she won't get my vote
as long as I have a choice.

[amborin]

124. i agree she should apologize

[Carolina]

121. she aided and abetted known liars and thieves

Sheesh, they stole power in 2000 and lied about the Clintons trashing the White House. Enabling a crime is indeed criminal and she has blood on her hands!

This is especially so because IRAQ WAS NOT AN IMMINENT THREAT and a war resolution, not to mention a war, was not even necessary. Hillary knew it. If she didn't, many of her constituents as well as Senate colleagues told her so.

23 senators and a host of House members didn't buy the concoction but HRC was politically calculating for this very moment, her POTUS bid. Her vote showed moral cowardice, poor leadership and horrible judgment.

Besides, really, how could anyone of her alleged intelligence buy into anything coming out of Bush's mouth. Spare me.

[dionysus]

48. sour grapes much?

[Maribelle]

51. Those squeaky wheels at MoveOn are rusting out rapidly.

In case you didn't notice.

[MagsDem]

52. Why yes, in fact

It sours me to think that our most progressive political group has joined the cult of personality that is Obama. You'd think they were the one group you could count on not to endorse the corporatist, rethug policies of the Obama camp. To my mind, it's as if they are endorsing Joe Lieberman because he turned black. It's a very sad day for progressives, that's for sure. We are watching the beginning of the end of any true democratic agenda in this country. Who needs the DLC when you have Move On caving into the idea of "working with republicans"?

[PassingFair]

53. Anti-War Organization Members Vote Against Pro-War Senator!

Who could have foreseen!

:eyes:

[MagsDem]

57. Obama is pro war as well, or haven't you noticed?

Damn, could Obama supporters be more obtuse? I'm thinking not.

[PassingFair]

66. I haven't noticed.

He was 100% against going into Iraq.

[DemCam]

107. It just simply doesn't count because he had nothing to lose and no record.

Pie in the sky, anyone?

[PassingFair]

118. It remains a FACT.

And from the way he was speaking at the time, we
can be pretty sure that he would have voted with
the MAJORITY of democratic representatives in
Congress and the Senate in saying NAY to the
Bush Administration on the IWR.

He remains the "default" candidate.

Hillary is the "fault" candidate.

We'll see how it shakes out, but those are the facts.

[MethuenProgressive]

60. Obama has voted with Clinton on every Iraq War vote - except the MoveOn/Petraeus one he ducked.

[SOS]

79. And remember folks

There is no difference between authorizing George W. Bush to use the armed forces in Iraq and
funding US troops in combat.
No differnce whatsoever!

:eyes:

[CyberPieHole]

62. I canceled my membership and wrote them why I was doing so...

I suggest that all Clinton supporters cancel their memberships to MoveOn.org...if they won't stand behind Clinton they don't need our support.

[cooolandrew]

67. He didn't vote on it because he thought it was outragous they even debated the ad...

...That is why they are backing him.

[MethuenProgressive]

68. He couldn't find the yellow Present button?

While he was hiding in the cloakroom?

[cooolandrew]

70. Let's be reasonable why would they back Hillary who voted against them,, they help Dems.

[Arugula Latte]

71. She stabbed us all in the back by voting for IWR. nt

[Maribelle]

78. Obama stabs you in the brain with his "I knew" pomp.

Unsubstantiated, untested words, perhaps stuff cloned from other speechs that happened two weeks before he gave his.

[PassingFair]

84. He remains the only choice for those who don't wish to vote for

someone who voted to give Bush the green light to invade
Iraq.

Just the fact.

I have no great love for Obama.

He is the default candidate.

Yours is the "fault" candidate.

So sorry.

[Maribelle]

95. Obama gave the green light to Bush with each and every vote for funding the war.

Be kinder to yourself and seek the truth.

[PassingFair]

97. Not the same thing.

And you know it.

[Maribelle]

104. Yep, I'm against the war, unlike Hillary, but here's some money Bush to go akilling, unlike Hillary.

It seems I know loads more than you.

[PassingFair]

111. Here's money to buy armor for soldiers that Hillary SENT to Iraq.

That is the more accurate take.

[Maribelle]

125. And money for cluster bombs to drop on innocent Iraqis?

Giving Obama a free pass for supporting the war with money, then claiming oops I mean that to go to the troops Mr. Bush, is a disgraceful use of a free pass in light of the hatred being hailed upon Hillary, and even more importantly: in light of the troops that were killed or maimed because they lacked proper armor.

[PassingFair]

126. Don't you get dizzy spinning so much?

Get off the Hillary-Go-Round and clear your head.

[Carolina]

123. Totally agree with you

fault versus default.

[stillcool]

72. Moveon Members....

Did you vote? Really gets you doesn't it? Your perception does not equal reality.

[KennedyGuy]

75. so..it proved Obamabots can use a computer

ask President Dean.

[AZBlue]

86. So some of you would rather that MoveOn took a lesson from Bush?

Instead of representing its membership it just decided to do it's own damn thing? Ignoring the wishes and votes of its members, making decisions that are completely opposite their opinions and feelings?

WTF? Who are you people and why are you here on DU?

(And, YES, I would be posting the same thing if Obama supporters complained because MoveOn members voted to support HRC instead)

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

94. Yes. Donations made in good faith are used as campaign funds.

I don't think anyone thought they'd do anything else but endorse and support the Democratic General Election nominee. But to, by their own calculations, deliberately alienate one million plus members does not appear to be a prudent move.

[cd3dem]

109. Send MoveOn.org a message and unsubscribe, I did and make sure you tell them why!

[MediaBabe]

117. I did.

But unless thousands of others do also it's not going to mean much

[cd3dem]

127. and they are still sending me shit!

emailed them again and said do not send me your spam

[CTLawGuy]

122. awww

somebody needs a nappy-poo!