Who Says HILLARY CAN'T BEAT McCAIN!?

[Krashkopf]

Those of you who have read my Journal know that I‘m not a huge Hillary fan (I am an Edwards guy who has come over to the Obama camp), but I DON'T BUY this “Hillary can’t beat McCain” idea.

McCain’s platform, in his own words, is “LESS JOBS – MORE WARS!” Does anyone really think THAT MESSAGE is going to resonate with anyone (other than the bottom 25%ers)? Look at this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bndmOt1cm34. When a Republican candidate can’t win over the "Joe Scarboroughs," how is he EVER going to win over “mainstream” America?

For a funnier look at this same issue, watch McCain channel Gen. Buck Turgeson (of Dr. Strangelove fame) in this ad: http://therealmccain.com/. McCain, in his own words, is his own worst enemy. Like Guiliani, the more America sees of McCain the less they will like him.

I will strongly support the Democratic candidate, regardless of who that candidate is. If we all do that, the Democratic candidate, regardless of who that candidate is, WILL WIN!

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

1. Hillary would crush McCain.

She would tend to get more of the "center" then Obama.

Everyone sits here saying Obama would, but her positioning is much more aimed for the general election then he is.
The further left you go, the more bzzare the claims get. Hillary will win in 08.

[rodeodance]

3. see my post below --EXACTLY

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

7. I am frustrated that the Democratic Party is seemingly willing to go left again.

I understand the desires, but you have to think GET THE CENTER.

Hillary clearly knows this strategy.

Kerry and Kennedy do not. The left FLAMES Hillary for being smart enough to know HOW TO WIN and get the basic core values of our party into the White House.

It appears the further left leaners DO not care aboutthe general election.

[RaleighNCDUer]

39. IOW, she needs to go to the right, and lie about her true leftist credentials.

I don't even know where to begin with that.

[cjmastaw]

54. yes, hillary knows all...

she got that from her 2 extra years in the senate.

[557188]

60. What?

Neither candidate really represents the left.

Going left would've been going with Kucinich or Gravel.

It's scary that you are so misunderstood on politics that you posted that.

Also moving towards the center is a horrible strategy that has made the Democrats lose election after election. COVER YOUR BASE! Always run to your base. The republicans do and they win. It's simple!

But what do I know? I am just some Grad Student with a BA in Poli Sci. :(

[fenriswolf]

58. yeah except

she is know to all the repubs as "that liberal" she is to well known for to many decades. no republican will vote for her because she is a liberal. Obama has not been in the limelight that long to devolop the kind of hatred and animosity that clinton has, not to mention the repubs have decades of ammunition. Personally I'm not looking forward to monica again.

[rodeodance]

2. some RW radio guy was pushing for HILL, then he basted McCain. they are

afraid that if Hill is the nom. she will beat mccain.

expect to hear more of this from RW and from the Obamabots

[GoldieAZ49]

18. Ann Coulter is too

she said she would campaign for Hillary if McCain is the nominee last night on FOX, it is all over the blogs this morning

this is just an amazing election year, like the world is turned upside down

[rodeodance]

32. oh my gawd. oh

[rodeodance]

4. ~ YES SHE CAN YES WE CAN, YES SHE CAN, YES WE CAN~~~

[rodeodance]

5. K AND R

[LibDemAlways]

6. The repukes have a choice between a ken doll

multi-millionaire, a genial, but batshit crazy evolution-denying wingnut, and an aging war hero many of their base distrust.

But one thing is for sure. Repukes hate Hillary Clinton with a passion. If she get the nomination, they'll show up in droves to vote against her and it will be a nail-biter come election night.

I'm an Edwards supporter, by the way, and am currently supporting neither Hillary nor Obama.

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

9. Obama's negatives will Suddenly SHOOT up if nominated

Republicans are just awaiting their chance!
Unlike democrats They do not fear losing the Black vote.
They will go after him hard. He will lose and we will get Mccain. His appeal to the center and the Far Right wings talent for uniting to beat down the left will win it for Repbs.

Do you really think the Far Right will not go hard after a Black Man?

You are DREAMING!

[LibDemAlways]

17. Where did I say the far right won't go after Obama?

My post addressed the Hillary issue. Of course the repukes will run a racist campaign if Obama is the nominee. But they won't really need to. This is the United States. It's full of racists who'd never vote for Obama to begin with, just like there are millions who'd never vote for a woman. Not trying to be sexist or racist. Just realistic.

Edwards was our best hope. As I posted on another thread the other day, I think the Dems have once again managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[cd3dem]

55. republicans are not afraid to play RACE into it...

there many white males and older voters who will not vote for a Black man... don't call me a racist for saying the obvious... it is what it is...

I am not an Obama fan, on character... but if he is our nominee, I will vote for him...

[MadHound]

8. Two reasons that Hillary will lose

First of all, no matter who is running against her, if Hillary gets the nod, a large contingent of anti-war, anti corporate voters will flee from her and the party. We're talking millions here who will either go Green or stay home.

Second, if it is McCain against Hillary, there will be a lot of centerists and independents in the middle who will go for McCain.

So with a Hillary nomination you're going to have millions of votes pared off from both the left and right parts of the Democratic spectrum, a huge loss in what could very well be a tight race.

I'm already starting to see this dynamic setting up already. It won't matter in such liberal bastions as NY or CA, but in swing states like Missouri or Ohio, a Clinton/McCain dual will go to McCain and swing the rest of the election his way.

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

10. Second, if it is McCain against Hillary, there will be a lot of centerists and independents in the m

Hillary is more CENTERED then Obama.

[MadHound]

14. I don't give a damn about Obama,

I'm just about as disgusted with him as I am with Hillary.

But my reasoning still holds, Hillary will lose conservative Dems, Reagan Dems, centerists and moderate 'Pugs to McCain, along with the anti-war left going to the Greens. It will cost her the election and we'll wind up with McCain.

[pnwmom]

21. I don't think the anti-war left is as stupid as you think.

They will prefer Hillary to "More Wars McCain."

[MadHound]

25. Frankly they will look at this election and despair

Warhawk A against Warhawk B:shrug: They will either then go Green or stay home. For most folks in the anti-war movement it isn't a political thing, it is a moral one.

[pnwmom]

29. McCain IS a warhawk, HRC is not. Haven't you been listening

to all his war talk lately? He's going around the bend.

[rodeodance]

36. yes, the Chair of the OUTOFIRAQ caucus, maxine walters endorsed Hillary--that says a lot.

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. Prove to me there is a difference between them.

Other than the fact the McCain actually has experience the personal pain of war, and with him it is not just theoretical.

she didn't change her mind about iraq, even though Iraq was never a threat to us, until the polls showed the general public had turned against the war.

she has no core principles.

[pnwmom]

48. Iraq is only one of many issues. For example, her Supreme Court appointments

will be critical in turning back the right-wing direction of the Court.

[RaleighNCDUer]

51. The only thing sure about the SC appointments would be someone

who SAYS they will not overturn RvW. She would select moderates, pro-business centrists who would be perfectly in line with the court as it is today. No lefties. I promise.

[fujiyama]

66. Assuming she nominates those along the lines of her husband

she would elect prudent and intelligent people to the court without an idealogical ax to grind. Ruth Bayder Ginsuburg is a great example.

Don't tell me there isn't much of a difference between her and Alito?

That's reason enough for any self described lefty to get their ass out, hold their nose and vote for Hillary if she's the nominee.

[pnwmom]

19. Upper New York state is red country, and it strongly went for Hillary.

She pulled in 75% of the women's vote across the state, and more than 60% of the total electorate.

Yes, New York is blue -- but she polled well in in the Republican bastions. And John McCain will be stuck defending the Bush Presidency and the Bush war -- which are indefensible.

[rodeodance]

38. Hillary has shown nyorkers she had worked hard for them--evidence she will

put her heart and soul into working for all americans.

[fujiyama]

69. She's probably stronger than many of us give her credit for

That was an impressive feat, but her victory while impressive in '00, was not quite as overwhelming as it was in '06. I think people realize she's a hard worker after working alongside her or when she represents them, but this time she's also running a much stronger candidate that is well liked by moderates and the media. McCain is no Lazio (though for that matter he's no Alan Keyes either).

[pnwmom]

72. McCain will be running with the Bush mantle wrapped around his own neck.

He's been defending the Bush war as loudly as he can -- even promoting more wars. People everywhere are SICK of the war and any candidate who's pushing it will be rejected in the election. It's election fraud we have to fear, more than McCain.

[JimGinPA]

20. Couldn't Agree More!

Conservatives are salivating at a Hillary nomination.

[Individualist]

22. A third reason:

A Hillary nomination will galvanize an opposition vote among repugs like no other nominee ever has or ever will. Repugs who wouldn't otherwise have voted will turn out in droves to vote against her.

[Krashkopf]

24. So, what part of . . .

"LESS JOBS - MORE WARS" do you think is going to resonate with those "centerists and independents in the middle"?

Democrats should NEVER pass up an opportunity to remind Americans, that the GOP, and John McCain, are the party of LESS JOBS - MORE WARS.

That should be our MANTRA between now and November.

[MadHound]

27. Careful there, if you start invoking that cry

It could very well turn against you, since the Democratic House and Senate also have some blame to that game, and their approval ratings are lower than Bush's

[JTFrog]

52. Because people will easily forget who brought us NAFTA and who voted for IWR & Kyl-Lieberman!!!

Never passing up an opportunity to remind Americans of Less Jobs - More Wars will definitely bite one democrat in the ass.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. She's the worst match up against McCain. Nobody can predict the future, so I certainly

wouldn't say she "can't win."

But I also wouldn't say she "can't lose."

I won't be voting for her if she's the nominee. I'll probably write in someone I like instead.

I can't vote for war, sorry.

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

13. If it is Obama, I'll be tempted to vote more centered.

McCain for all his issues with the Far Right is a good man.
The Obama frenzy just forgets that Clinton is more centered then Obama.
I do not want an in experienced leader with Iraq going on.
The price of his potential mistakes is way to high.
I'll take a moderate over a to far left or to far right guy any day.

[John Q. Citizen]

31. Hillary isn't qualified for the job, IMHO. She still doesn't even know the history of

US relations with Iraq.

She is a liar

She's an imperialistic hawk.

But that's just my informed opinion.

[RaleighNCDUer]

41. As Jim Hightower so aptly put it

there is nothing in the center of the road except a yellow line and dead armadillos.

The center is NOT where anyone wins. committment to the base is what wins, as shown by Reagan, Clinton and Bush. sitting in the center loses on BOTH sides; sitting in the base only loses on the one side.

Bill Clinton played to the left (then ultimately betrayed it), but he didn't win by being 'centrist'. he used populist economic messages to draw in the center, while anchoring his campaign in the democratic base.

Your way is the losing way.

[Krashkopf]

44. Absolutely . . .

the "centrist" way is death, both morally and politically.

[fujiyama]

70. You'd consider voting for McCain over Obama?

McCain is not "centered". He's a right wing war mongerer and has made it clear he'll stay as long as it "takes to get the job done". What job that is, I have no clue because the objectives of this disasterous war were never very apparent and whatever they are, they are not justifiable, valid, or noble in any sense. McCain thinks he can transform the country into a functioning democracy, fitting in with neocon designs for the middle east. I have no doubt he wouldn't hesitate in attacking Iran either. And it looks like Lieberman would have a shot of getting a cabinet position....

Unless you want endless war, go ahead and fall for the media myth. He's made it quite clear he's not rational.

[Krashkopf]

16. Then you would be a living, breathing, "truism" . . .

the person who would cut off their nose to spite their face.

Truisms are trusism for a reason, you know.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[John Q. Citizen]

35. I'm done not trusting my nose. Truisms are for mediocre minds. Minds that

view the world in only a binary fashion. Truisms are for the simplistic.

It's not my job, my duty, or in my best interests to vote for one imperialistic hawk over another imperialistic hawk.

Besides, I live in MT. Hillary has zero chance to win here, even though we have a Dem Governor and two Dem Senators.

Obama could win here. It would be close. But it would be in play.

We have a number of independent voters and Hill doesn't score too high with independent voters. We also have some fundies, and they will all show up to vote against Hill.

So don't despair. My nose and my face will be just fine.

[pnwmom]

30. If you throw away your vote then you're aiding the Rethug. n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

37. I refuse to throw away my vote. If you get Hill nominated you are throwing away your vote.

[pnwmom]

45. I'm not going to a caucus, so I'll leave it up to everyone else

whether it's Obama or HRC.

But it is critical to the Supreme Court and in many other ways that a Democrat be elected. I don't care whether the Dem is perfect. He or she will be light years better than the alternative.

[Krashkopf]

50. Thanks . . .

As a Precinct Captain, that is the kind of committment I am going to ask for from EVERYONE who attends in my precinct's caucus on Tuesday

[John Q. Citizen]

56. Have them sign a loyalty oath. Just to make sure....

[Krashkopf]

62. No. I'll take them at their words . . .

after all its not like we're Republicans.

This message is NOT meant for you if you are an INDEPENDENT or a GREEN. If you are, first of all, more power to you. Secondly, we hope you'll give our candidates your serious consideration. Of course, you are free to vote for who ever you choose.

On the other hand . . . for the DEMOCRATS in the room . . . there is way too much at stake in 2008, in terms of a wide range of social issues for ANY DEMOCRAT to "sit this election out;" or to throw your vote away by voting for ANYONE other than Democratic Nominee, regardless of who that nominee is.

OUR PARTY NEEDS US, folks! And, those of us - like me - who supported a candidate who did not get nominated, are just going to have to "suck it up" and fall in behind OUR PARTY'S candidate.

THAT is what it means to be a member of a political party.

If you CAN'T do that, or WON'T do that, you have to ask yourself a hard question . . . "Am I REALLY a Democrat?"

You might surprise yourself and find out that the answer is NO.

[pnwmom]

71. Are you in Washington or somewhere else?

Because if you're in Washington, I'd like to know how to convince the party hotshots to switch over to the primary system.

I've been to a WA caucus, and once was enough for a lifetime.

[BenDavid]

12. You all back in 06 after the dems took over the congress were

saying we need a damn fighter in the 08 presidential race...over and over this was written.....now we have a fighter, and not someone who believes he can play nice with the republicans....i would like to ask did the republicans play nice with gore? did they play nice with kerry? both answers are NO!

At some point today stop and ask yourself, Why are the republicans so critical about Hillary Clinton? Why do they attack her all the time if she will be so easy to beat in November? Why are the republicans being so nice to Obama? Why has no one on the right attacked obama? These are questions you obama folks need to wrap your mind around.....

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

15. Obama's negative press with be METEORIC if he gets nomination.

The far left is actually sabotagoing the Democratic party again.

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. LOL.

Upthread people are talking about RW shills backing Hillary instead of McCain - Coulter and Scarborough both.

How many sides of the argument are you going to take?

[emilyg]

23. K&R

[hiaasenrocks]

26. Clinton will not beat McCain

no matter how many ALL CAPS and/or bold type words you use.

How horrible for our country that it's looking like we'll have to choose between those two, or any of the others, for that matter. In a nation of approximately 300,000,000 people, this is the best we can do? I'd like to think not.

[rodeodance]

33. obama can not beat mccain

your words back to yah

How horrible for our country that it's looking like we'll have to choose between those two, or any of the others, for that matter. In a nation of approximately 300,000,000 people, this is the best we can do? I'd like to think not.

[Krashkopf]

43. YOU could beat McCain.

Conservatives DON'T LIKE HIM.

Progressives DON'T LIKE HIM.

And, as soon as the mainstream media's infatuation with him wears off, and they stop giving him a FREE PASS, Middle America WON'T LIKE HIM, EITHER.

All the DEMS have to do is show his picture, and keep repeating:

LESS JOBS - MORE WARS!
LESS JOBS - MORE WARS!!
LESS JOBS - MORE WARS!!!

(P.S. What have you got against HTML, anyway. If you look at most good bloggers - not that I consider myself one - they almost all use HTML. Its fun to use. I think it makes reading on-line easier. And you can put the emphasis on the right syllable.)

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. Maybe it's true that EVERYBODY don't like him -

but EVERYBODY don't like Hillary more.

McCain v Hillary leaves it close enough for them to steal, if they have to.

[pnwmom]

73. No reason that she shouldn't. Yeah, she won't get the male right-wing vote.

Democrats lose that anyway.

But she'll get a huge percentage of women and since women comprise 54% of the electorate, that will overcome her disadvantage among men. (Although even that disadvantage will be lessened by the fact that McCain is tenaciously sticking to his positions on Iraq, and most of America is sick to death of that war.)

[robbedvoter]

34. She already got more votes than him in primaries _ NH, Fla - plus the states he lost

And that without the press helping her - like he did other dems.

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. As if FL and MI could count as true contests - where only SHE

participated.

[rinsd]

57. Yeah Obama only had ads on TV and supportive union literature in FL

And a surrogate anti Hillary campaign in MI.

[cd3dem]

49. Poll Analysis: Clinton v. McCain; Obama v. McCain

Obama 3.6%
probability of winning
Mean of 236 electoral votes

McCain
96.0% probability of winning
Mean of 302 electoral votes

http://hominidviews.com/?p=1250

Clinton
Wins 91.7%
Mean of 293 electoral votes

McCain
Wins 7.8%
Mean of 245 electoral votes

http://hominidviews.com/?p=1237

[Krashkopf]

53. If this Primary Season has shown us ANYTHING it is that "the POLLS" don't mean . . .

SQUAT!

Hell, less than three months ago, "the polls" showed GUILIANI winning the GOP nomination in a "cake walk."

IGNORE THE POLLS!

[Timmy5835]

59. Why McCain will lose

He wants MORE war. America is sick of it and can't afford more war.

[cd3dem]

61. no one cares about polls unless they say what they want to hear

Obama has no chance... the media has given him a free ride to the generals, where they will throw him off the swiftboat..

[OnionPatch]

63. My prediction

If he's the nominee, all these GOPers who make fun of him now, will be lining right up behind him lockstep in November. Especially if he's going to let them keep their tax cuts, because you know that's the only thing most Republicans care about anyway. Their own pocketbook.

That's not to say I think he will beat Hillary or Obama, but a Republican is a Republican is a Republican.

[ErnestoG]

64. I do.

Hillary facing off McCain will give us four years of McCain. The Hillary haters will come out in DROVES on election day and that will be that.

[Guava Jelly]

65. If she gets the Nod I will vote for her

I just believe that she will not get enough of the moderates to beat McCain.
She I also fear is like Chicken Soup for the right wings soul.
They may not be in love with McCain but they will show up to vote against Mrs Clinton.
I believe Obama has a better chance..Feel free to disagree.
And honestly I still am angry about the IWR.
But I am not stupid enough to NOT vote for our candidate whomever it is.
I refuse to take my Marbles and go home.
I am a former Richardson/and then Edwards supporter
Right now I prefer Obama and he will get my vote tuesday.
If Clinton wins the nod I will be a Clinton supporter..

[bigwillq]

67. Nice poem

:) :P ;) :hi:

[Guava Jelly]

68. I'm a poet and didn't know it

And my grammar sure doesn't show it :P :dunce: :hi: