We Got a Fresh Start Last Night. Let's Not Blow It

[Tom Rinaldo]

Tensions had been building dangerously for weeks inside of the Democratic Party AND here at Democratic Underground, between those inclined to support Hillary Clinton and those inclined to support Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination for President. Posts here were getting angrier from all sides. More and more outrageous things were being said about both candidates AND their supporters.

Last night a fresh page was turned. Last night almost all Democrats of good will with open minds were able to clearly see that both Barack Obamna and Hillary Clinton are good and decent people backing a strong Democratic agenda for America. Each of them showed the strength, character, intelligence and resolve to lead our party to victory in 2008. It was painfully obvious to everyone viewing how superior the Democratic candidates are to the Republicans running for President. It was wonderfully obvious to America that the Democratic Party stands on the threshold of making history in November 2008 by electing either the first African American or the first woman to the office of President of the United States of America.

This is a Democratic primary campaign. Only one of these good Democrats can win and each of us now are called upon to potentially make a choice between them. Of course we will differ on that. Of course there are arguments in favor of Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. Of course there are arguments against Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. But all of these are relative arguments to help weigh the merits of one Democrat compared to another. Both of them are Democrats. Both of them are good candidates in the larger scheme of things.

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton together washed the slate clean of bitterness and division among Democrats last night. From this point forward I hope all of DU's members appreciate the value and importance of this new beginning to our Party's chances of defeating the Republicans in November, behind whoever we finally nominate. I will be paying close attention to my own choice of words during the inevitable debates that will continue on this board until a candidate is chosen. I hope all of us do the same. And I will watch the words of others also.

We do not need bomb throwers in our midst now. We do not need angry and misleading "spin". We do not need behavior aimed at inciting hatreds between us. We do not need to tear down either Clinton or Obama, to build up the candidate of our choice. And we certainly don't need any more accusations that either Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton is a closet or even overt Republican "Bush -Lite". Instead we need honest real debate over the actual issues, and discussion about the relative strengths and weaknesses of our two impressive potential candidates for President.

I will notice who on this board works overtime now to bury the fresh start that we were just given last night with sleaze and vicious accusations instead. I hope that all of us do.

[Armstead]

1. Unfortunately real issues will be swept under the rug

This, IMO, is the kind of issue that should be the real meat and potatoes of this race.

Sorry, but it really pisses me off that this kind of thing isn't even being talked about.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4333840

[Tom Rinaldo]

2. OK, I just kicked that thread for you.

I will actually read it a little later because my origninal intent was to respond to your post here now.

If we clear out the dead underbrush of brain dead recycled attack threads on DU, real discussions will be easier to find and become involved in. As it has been for most of the last month, mostly my time here gets spend having to blunt stupid negative attacks on my client and sometimes on her opponents (now opponent) also.

[Hoof Hearted]

20. Inflamatory rhetoric discourages meaningful conversation.

You won't find me reading any post with "Clintonian" or "Clintonista" or any other right-wing smear term in the title.

I also refuse to visit further any "Obamabot" or similar threads.

[DURHAM D]

3. What Hillary did last night that was beautiful -

She spoke up for the Democratic Party. She illustrated the difference between Democrats and that other group. She did not pander to the enemy. She gave Democrats a reason to be proud.

She very skillfully pulled the rug out from under Obama's "can't we all just get along" mantra. Obama's overtures to others has been pissing off Democrats. I realize that many, if not most, of Obama's supporters do not realize the anger this has caused.

Hillary caused Democrats to fill up with pride last night.

[grasswire]

4. is there you-tube of this particular segment?

I guess I'd better watch it, although after Edwards dropped out my heart is just not in it anymore.

[DURHAM D]

5. It was a theme not a single statement.

You would need to watch most of the early part of the debate.

It was a thing of beauty.

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. Obama was good though also

I just feel a need to say that, because I have been somewhat critical of him before along these lines. Last night Obama trained his real fire against those Republicans who advance an agenda that is not in the interests of the overwhelming majority of Americans. And he pointedly went out of his way to frame his differences with Hillary as minor compared to his differences with the Republican candidates for President.

This was a Democratic debate and both candidates acted like Democrats in it. I stand by calling it a fresh start - and I say that while agreeing that Hillary was excellent at framing the differences between Democrats and Republicans last night without needlessly alienating Indpendents or moderate Republicans.

[DURHAM D]

8. Yes - he was better last night about attacking the real enemy.

Too late however.

The anger at Obama among a certain demographic is not reflected on the internet because that demographic is just simply not on the internet.

[robbedvoter]

7. Hear, hear!

[blues90]

9. Fresh start ?

You don't ever get a fresh start by burying the past . You don't move on until you repair the damage and most of this is human death which can never be repaired .

Yeah the lucky ones think of a fresh start as long as they can clear their minds of what they had allowed to happen .

[Tom Rinaldo]

10. Great wrongs were committed in the Spanish American War

And we stole Texas from Mexico, and the Black Hills from the Lakota. What sweep of history do you need to discuss? I was talking about the bitterness that has been tearing Democrats apart over the last few weeks.

I do not hold Hillary Clinton personally responsible for the invasion of Iraq, I hold George W. Bush personally responsible for the invasion of Iraq. I have said numerous times that Obama's early opposition to the IWR is a strong point in his favor over Clinton. But Clinton did not want that war with Iraq. Give Obama points for good judgment, fair and proper in my book. But the blood is on Republican hands.

U.N. inspectors did return to Iraq, in large part as a result of an IWR passing. Inspectors were well on there way toward proving that Iraq had no WMD's. That would have dramatically furthered the cause of Peace. Instead Bush yelled "Time's Up" and invaded Iraq without UN or Congressional approval. Fault Clinton and many other good Democrats for not distrusting Bush enough, and for assuming that Colin Powell actually was the Secretary of State. That is a fair political point to press. But it won't help Democrats keep Republicans in check if we throw Senators like Kerry, Biden, Dodd, and Clinton under the bus claiming that's how to do so.

[Armstead]

12. reread this quickly, especially the 2nd sentence

I've made the same typo in the past

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. Yep. The sticking key problem. Thanks! n/t

[blues90]

16. I know what you were saying , I also watched how this >

Iraq attack came about .

I still have problems with everything america has done and I don't care how far back we go into history , wrong is still wrong and death for the reason of gain is still wrong . We have not progessed from this , we continue to do this with even greater vigor with greater lies and easier ways due to technology to murder, kill and destroy .

With this said we have learned nothing and by the looks of it and past history we never will .

The people of this country for the most part were led and driven by fear which was the focal point of the bush admin and the media and the media has become a great tool used to convince one to pass judgement which over rules common sense which has been replaced by emotion .

As far as who in the senate voted for this attack no one can convince me they used common sense but rather the fear emotion to save their standing . Obama had a safe area , he did not have to feel the pressure so he can fall back on this when in reality he was not in the senate so how does this count .

Where does a fresh start begin and where does the past end is what I question . For me it's a matter of conscience that won't let go .

We are here in 2008 while millions have died since 2003 just because of the Iraq attack alone . what have we learned from this and what will become the next era of willfull ignorance that will through time be washed away ?

To me a fresh start may relate to a newborn who has not been brought up on hate and greed other than that I question a fresh start . Fair enough ?

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. Then give a nod toward tactics

Either McCain or Romney will run for President on the Republican ticket. The world would at least be less badly off today, no matter how you slice it, if Kerry was President now instead of Bush. And the world will be a more dangerous place if McCain or Romney become President rather than Obama or Clinton. A Democrat in the White House is much more likely to take global warming seriously than a Republican. You can start and end right there.

If we tear each other apart now by tearing Obama and Clinton apart prior to one of them becoming the Republican nominee, it becomes more likely that the Republican nominee will become President.

The struggle will not stop if either Democrat wins in Novemeber, nor is the struggle confined to the arena of an election. But it matters, and our behavior before then matters also.

[blues90]

18. I agree and understand , however

It is not me who decided to tear the Dems apart . I heard nothing from all the Liberal/progressive radio hosts other than we must support and Dem , they all all a good choice and all would do a good job and all would be far better than a repub .

Once this Obama craze came to be then suddenly Hillary became their target , even before a few hosts were bashing Hillary but now all are full behind Obama . Hartmann had his straw polls and most were for Kucinich or Edwards now this has switched to Obama for the most part .

I do realize radio is not the end all of talk , but even the blogs have jumped onto this band wagon .

Ok , so now everyone should just toss their votes to what was picked for us . Pretty fickle .

Certainly the main theme has remained the same , vote Dem to avoid a repub but the heart of it has been pared away to a hollow shell .

I am not here to tell anyone who to vote for , i have absolutley no power or voice in the matter and would not seek this .

Here's the deal . I have yet to see either Hillary or Obama in NOLA or at one rally to end the war both have said was wrong . They are willing to take money for their campaigns which will fill the pockets of the media TV talking heads . Yet they have not one day to get out to the people . Kucinich and Edwards have come to the people not just on a primary setting but on a base level .

None have gone after the black box machines , no they left this to groups and their money .

I have little confidence that Hillary or Obama are going to stop this occupation , while i know McCain may start another .

All the while Bush has almost a year left and this has taken back seat for the elections that have been going on now for a year , add the year before 2006 midterms and it's two years and what have the Dems done .

The entire playing field sucks to the extreme .

To say the least , I am disheartened by the entire game .

If Kerry would have fought perhaps bush would have been stopped . Promises mean nothing after that .

I do see your point and agree with it's frail standing . In my view we are right where we were with Kerry in 2004 .

[BootinUp]

11. This morning I come by and all I see is

attacks on Hillary for the IWR. THis was brought on by Obamas comments in the debate. I think it is reasonable for Hillary defenders to take those threads on. If my posts get a little too boisterous then I would welcome anyone to point it out so I can rethink it.

I think the unity feeling from last night is not to be long no matter what I do though. I know DU too well.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. I call that debating the real issues Jim

Our candidates debated the full sweep of the Iraq war, past and future, it is proper for us to also. As with most things though, it all depends on how it is done.

I just wanted to draw a line in the sand so I can look back from this day and see if DU is hell bent on being a cess pool no matter how our candidates actually conduct themselves.

[BootinUp]

15. Thats cool

will keep your suggestion in mind...

[Hoof Hearted]

19. I totally agree with your entire thoughtful post. I couldn't be more pleased at last nights debate

and I'm excited about our future as Democrats.

Go Hillary! Go Obama!

[Tom Rinaldo]

21. Kick while it still has time to matter n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. We are going to have to defeat the Republicans this fall by backing

one Democrat together. I get that there are plenty of reasons to get fired up for one candidate or fired up against one. They happen for me also. I don't know who will win the primaries but I am looking past them already. It is not good for Democrats to shoot oursleves in the foot prior to the most important race of the year.

This was my kick for the weekend crowd.

[BootinUp]

23. What do you do in a family that's split?

In the Kennedy family, says Kathleen, "We keep loving each other, talking to each other and arguing with each other. ... We wake up the next morning raring to go."

:)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/inside_the_divided_kennedys.html

[abburdlen]

24. kick

There are differences in the candidates both policy-wise and in style. We can discuss those differences with the BS and spin