did you support the war in 2002, and who do you support now?

[anyothername]

i've been wondering this for some time. it seems to me to be the central question in this election.

firstly, in the year 2002, as the united states government was deliberating the merits of military action against iraq, what side of the debate did you, fellow du user, fall on? were you for it, or against it?

secondly, in this election cycle, who do you support for the democratic nominee?

i'm assuming that most who opposed it, are choosing barack obama, the candidate who shared their opposition to the war. but i'm also sure that their are some who opposed the war 2002, who are siding with hillary in 2008. if so, i'd like to hear the argument for supporting hillary, when she didn't support you, in 2002.

if someone could please make a poll (i can't, not a subscribing member yet), asking this question, with the following options, i'd be much obliged:

voting hillary - supported the war in iraq
voting hillary - opposed the war in iraq
voting obama - supported the war in iraq
voting obama - opposed the war in iraq

if you could also include the text, " if you are for hillary, but did not support the war, i'd like to hear the argument for supporting hillary, when she didn't support you, in 2002." after the poll question, that'd be just peachy as well. thanks.

it should be interesting to see the results. i fear many hear are compromising their own moral standards to vote for a candidate who doesn't best represent their own values, and are instead supporting a candidate for less practical reasons (their gender, for example)? hope i'm wrong.

[thunder rising]

1. I nearly went to jail screaming against this war. I certainly lost my job at ETS..GoBama!!

[alteredstate]

2. In 2002, I opposed the war.

I voted for Obama.

[silverweb]

3. I'll start the poll for you

I've never started one before, so I hope I don't mess it up. :D

brb....

[NYCGirl]

4. I marched against the war in 2002 (with about a million others in NYC). Obama. NT

[Abacus]

7. I marched as well. Obama. /nt

[Yurovsky]

5. I opposed the war then, and now ...

and will vote accordingly (Obama).

I cannot, in good conscience, support the murder of innocent Iraqi civilians. Obama will end this nightmare sooner rather than later (with Hillary who really knows?)

[Alexander]

6. I opposed the war in 2002. I voted Obama.

[Tom Strong]

8. Against war. Against IWR. For Clinton. n/t

[City Lights]

9. I was against the war in 2002 (as I am now), and will vote for Obama

on Tuesday.

[silverweb]

10. Poll is posted.

_here_

[BooScout]

11. I never supported the war. I now support Clinton.

I voted for Kerry/Edwards the last time around although I preferred Dean in the primaries. BTW, you do understand that Kerry/Edwards both voted yea on IWR and yet they were NEVER crucified for their vote like Hillary has been.

I support Clinton because I think she can be more effective in the office of President than Obama. I think her past experience is better. Her policies are more viable and I think on a global stage she definately has what it takes to stat to restore the damage Bush has done. I also think she is the better fighter against any Republican that will be running against her.

[emilyg]

12. Same here.

[Middle finga]

14. What experience? I keep hearing you guys talk about her experience

do you mean her first lady experience? If being a first lady qualify you for being the president of the U.S. I guess that makes Laura Bush, Barbara Bush, Nancy Reagan qualified as well and more capable than Barack.

[WillyT]

13. NO, And Obama !!!

:shrug:

[New Dawn]

15. I never supported the illegal war against Iraq, and I support Mike Gravel

[sniffa]

16. I never supported it

Back then, I had heated exchanges with the freepers who populate the fetish message board that used to be my home. That's also when I started using the "L" as a shoutout to my fellow liberals who were too cowered to respond as vociferously as I did.

[Rockholm]

17. Opposed then. Opposed Now. Support Hillary 100%

[Fire Walk With Me]

18. I was against the =invasion= before it began. I can't support Obama or Clinton

due to their non-presence regarding the necessary immediate end of this corporate cash-cow.

[sfam]

19. Strongly opposed then, strongly oppose now. OF COURSE I'm for Obama

Who else would I be for? Edwards and Clinton helped enable the fiasco we're in now. It was clear as day what this vote was about. It was also clear as day we rushed into it.

[DFLforever]

20. No! the main reason I support Obama.

[Kittycat]

21. Hell No!!! And I support Obama.

[ShadowLiberal]

22. Interesting statistics on support of the war then and now by democrats

"In 2006 polling, only about a fifth of Democrats recalled ever having supported the war, though in fact, almost half had supported it before the invasion."

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200801/partisan-retreat">It's in the middle of this article here.

But anyway at the time when it was obvious that the war was going to happen I thought that Bush was going about it in the wrong way entirely, but I believe I was mostly undecided about the war. Right after Bush actually invaded Iraq I turned against the war after hearing about how many billions the war would cost us.

It was around this time when it was obvious we would invade Iraq because Bush wanted to that I started to open up my eyes and slowly turn against Bush and the republicans. Before then I had blind loyalty to republicans/Bush simply from growing up in a republican household, and not thinking much about issues beyond "tax cuts = more money in our pockets, therefore they = good". At least I can say I was too young to vote in 2000, otherwise it would haunt me everyday knowing that I had voted for Bush.

[anyothername]

24. bush? ouch...

don't hate yourself too much though. some people supported nader.

[RoadRage]

23. voting obama - opposed the war in iraq NT

[TeamJordan23]

25. Opposed war from the start; voting Obama. nm

[LadyVT]

26. opposed wars - voting hillary -here's why

Clinton repeatedly stated she was not authorizing a pre-emptive war. She voted to continue the inspectors' work, and after being briefed by Senate intelligence, was told--as were all the other Senators--that Bush was using the vote to authorize force ONLY if the inspectors found WMDs, in which case, he would of course return to Congress (as has happened every time this country has been to war, and is--or was-- a Constitutional requirement) and make the case to invade. He pulled inspectors out early. Then he invaded. Without returning to Congress. This was the FIRST time in history that a President ignored Congress and went to war on his own. At that time, none of the Senators believed that could happen. It was unprecedented. It was against the Constitution of the United States. It was criminal.

Since then, Hillary has opposed the war at every vote, just like Obama has. Obama didn't cast a vote. He was offering an opinion. Here is what his opinion has been since then:

Obama: "So it’s not clear to me what differences we’ve had since I’ve been in the Senate. I think what people might point to is our different assessments of the war in Iraq, although I’m always careful to say that I was not in the Senate, so perhaps the reason I thought it was such a bad idea was that I didn’t have the benefit of U.S. intelligence. And, for those who did, it might have led to a different set of choices. So that might be something that sort of is obvious. But, again, we were in different circumstances at that time: I was running for the U.S. Senate, she had to take a vote, and casting votes is always a difficult test."

"Not only was the idea of an invasion increasingly popular, but on the merits I didn't consider the case against war to be cut-and- dried." <"Audacity of Hope," 2006, p. 294>

[anyothername]

29. but here's why you shouldn't

hillary may have made the claim that she was not authorizing a preemptive war with her iraq war vote, but the process of history certainly has a different opinion. the fact is, we all knew what the vote was for; it was a preemptive war. she was being disingenuous then, and she is being disingenuous now.

the facts: if you didn't support the war in 2002, she didn't support you. but worse. republicans cast all of us who strongly opposed the war in iraq at the time, as unpatriotic, illogical buffoons, and the actions of our democratic congressmen who voted with the republicans, in effect, was to agree with them. this should infuriate you.

barack obama, by contrast, stood with us. at a time when it was unpopular to speak out against the coming war, barack obama, at potential great expense to his political future, stood for us and spoke for us. it was an incredible act of political bravery. bravery which hillary herself, has not shown.

if you truly believe the iraq war to be a moral outrage on all levels, one of the biggest betrayals of the united states government perpetrated on its own people, then you cannot in good conscience, support hillary....

but maybe you don't believe that. maybe the war doesn't matter that much too you and never has. maybe, despite your protestations, you really aren't that outraged. the iraq war and the death and destruction which it has wrought, hundreds of thousands of men women and children dead, doesn't affect you. there are more important issues that need addressed. issues that in your mind, trump the relatively minor issue of iraq. issues so important, that everything else pales in comparison.

like electing the woman over then man... because you are a woman yourself. i hope i'm wrong, but much of the support for hillary, seems to be out of some tribal instinct to support your gender. it's not a rational support, it's an emotional one. it's an unpatriotic, and illogical one.

yes, maybe they were right about you in 2002. you've sold out your morals and country for something as insignificant as gender. if this accurately describes you, then it's time to take a look at your positions and a long hard look at yourself. if you support hillary, and you didn't support the war in 2002, you don't support yourself. you really are a buffoon. shame on you.

everyone else, who honestly did oppose the war in 2002, we're supporting barack. he supported us.

please, watch barack speak for himself on the war, in 2002:

(couple minutes a piece)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EhpKmQCCwB8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226po

p.s. those comments from obama were in 2006, when he was defending a fellow senators vote on the iraq war. that senators name? hillary clinton. he was just being diplomatic.

[VotesForWomen]

27. absolutely opposed from day1 - voting hillary. nt

[FrenchieCat]

28. Opposed, marched and voted for Obama in Cali

I'm consistent, period.

No rewards given acting out of politically expedience or stupidity, whichever she prefers.

[BklynChick]

30. against war, voting for obama (NY resident)

[Bluerthanblue]

31. No- marched/vigiled against war in Afganistan and Iraq- still believe war is

no solution to anything except "life".

peace~