Obamamania - do you really want to smear Hillary Clinton so badly as to

[sjdnb]

unfairly besmirch Bill Clinton's legacy and make her out to be the Anti-Christ/Hitler/Worst Person In The World? Cuz, right about now, that's what you seem to be doing.

[Joe the Revelator]

1. Someone call in the waaaambulance

[Skittles]

5. here it is

[NJSecularist]

14. ROFLMAO!

[sjdnb]

11. Your predictable response is getting old

I've read this at least 10 times already - no logic, no debate, just we're hip, dig us or be damned.

[Joe the Revelator]

24. I've never used that before tonight

And stop playing the ageism thing. Its stupid.

[billbuckhead]

12. Wait till people find out about what Obama is really all about

So spineless he votes "present". McCain will glare at Obama and snap his neck.

[sjdnb]

20. Just the kind of response I am complaining about ... both the Obama and Hillary

camps need to get a freakin clue.

Personally, I think you've both sold out to power or hype while the real progressive/pro-American candidates have bowed out.

So, you, are the 'spoils' we've been left with - so to speak.

And, you both continue to reinforce our beliefs that neither of you is truly progressive/free of establishment/corporate/lobbyist encumbrances.

So, yeah --- I'll still be voting Edwards in February - because he really was the only hope for the average Americans working hard in this country.

[billbuckhead]

26. Sarkozy, Merkel and even Bloomberg are to left of Obama

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. Thanks for your concern. nt

[Cha]

3. hilary smears herself just

by opening her disingenous trap.

[bellasgrams]

42. very polished response

[HughMoran]

4. looks like you got your answer

above

[goldcanyonaz]

15. And below.

[HughMoran]

23. Let's back slowly toward the side door

:yoiks:

[Azathoth]

6. Bill did a pretty good job of besmirching his own legacy in SC

And his wife paid a price for it.

[Thrill]

7. Obama supporters only attack back when

CLinton Supporters are being so mean

[BootinUp]

13. lol nt

[BlackVelvet04]

19. OMG.....

how old are you? 10?

[ErnestoG]

22. thank you for providing a working example of the attack Hillarbots.

You guys never disappoint.

[TSIAS]

8. He besmirched his own legacy

When he became HRC's hit man in this race.

[bellasgrams]

43. He did nothing to besmirch his legacy. BO twisted what he said

and got a pass by the media. The media has really savaged this election. They have been so biased. I think they're afraid of offending BO and his followers.

[goldcanyonaz]

9. This has been their theme for a long time. Divide and conquer!

[Armstead]

10. I'm not an "Obamamaniac" but I really feel strongly she would be the wrong choice

She is not the Worst Person in the World.

But I believe she is wrong. And she is not what the Democratic Party or the US needs at this point in history.

She and Bill did much to set back the cause of liberalism and they actively helped to erect a global political and economic structure that is going to subvert civil society and all segments of society except the wealthy and powerful.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. I agree with you

I am not mad about Obama but I sure like him lots better than Hillary. In fact the more I learn about both candidates, the more I dislike Hillary and like Obama. I think that is called making up my mind. But I guess some here would call me names for doing this. :shrug:

[ErnestoG]

16. You are free to embrace that drug induced view.

But here on planet earth, it's a bit different.

Hillary isn't the worst person in the world. I just don't endorse her for the post of Chief Executive of my nation's government.

[ugdude]

17. She isn't so bad?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4346457&mesg_id=4346457

I disagree.

[ErnestoG]

21. I didnt say that. I said she isn't evil. Just the wrong person for the job.

[sandnsea]

18. I'm kind of like Harry Truman

“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”

[sjdnb]

25. If nuking/killing over 100,000 civilians in a couple of hours is your thing

Harry Truman is your man.

[PassingFair]

31. Not like authorizing a nutjob to kill 400,000 over 5 years....

What a set-up line....

:eyes:

[sjdnb]

37. Fact is because the Dems have no balls, we don't know jack shit

about what has really gone one in Iraq since Bush's BS war began. Hearings postponed, cave ... cave ... and, cave again on hearings, subpeonas, etc.

They've handed over billions to no-bid/fraud ridden contractors, acquiesced on our civil liberties/Constitutional Law, and, pretty much sold out the country to whatever Bush/Cheney (aka Halliburton, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, Carlyle, etc.) wanted.

[sandnsea]

48. And who leads the Dem Party???

THE CLINTONS. Geez. Get A Clue.

[sjdnb]

60. Actually, no they don't ...

Reid and Pelosi are the leadership, Hillary chairs the Environmental Health Committee. I was talking about legislative action, not political action.

[ugdude]

32. She authorised a war that cost the lives of 100000 civilians

So the analogy is true?

[Straight Shooter]

45. Yes, you are.

You like to drop bombs here and there.

[sandnsea]

47. At least I hit the right target

as did Truman, and didn't go off bombing New Zealand or Iraq or something.

[hfojvt]

66. do you ever notice that Clinton supporters

seem willing to attack any other Democrat in order to "defend" Clinton - Ted Kennedy, Truman, Kerry, Dean, etc. But to them it's divisive to be an Obamaniac and tear the party apart by criticizing the Clintons.

[PassingFair]

27. Just because everybody doesn't fall in line and vote for your candidate...

doesn't mean we think she is the "Anti-Christ"!

This IS a primary, you know.

People DO get to choose.

:eyes:

[grantcart]

28. No one has done more to hurt Bill Clinton's legacy than what

he did in South Carolina. The thing about legacy is that there is no fairness. I could go on and on about Pres. U S Grant bringing the army against the KKK or moving to stop the genocide against the Native Americans but his legacy is shit and when he left office he was without doubt the most popular man in the world. He went on a world tour. Had Mark Twain edit his memoir.

Every 3 weeks I go to a VA hospital and do some work with employees and in this case they happen to be mostly African Americans. Before South Carolina they were ambivalent about the election. Now they are pissed, fired up and ready to vote.

What happens in here doesn't impact anybody's legacy. When Bill Clinton tries to merchandise Sen. Obama as a warmed over Jesse Jackson so he can trivialize an opponents victory has an impact. Now he has to decide if he is going to take the high road like Carter who says nice things about the candidates he likes and nothing about the ones he dosen't is up to him, not us.

My prediciton is that there is going to be a frosty night in the Clinton household Tuesday night.

[ForRusty]

29. Thank you for saying that. People act as if the Clintons are the worst political family in history.

And it ain't so. When she gets the nomination, and she will, I'll be the first on here to say QQ.

[CoffeeCat]

34. The Clintons aren't the "worst political family in history"...

..as you said, but they sure as hell ran the worst political campaign in history.

In the end, when Hillary loses Super Tuesday--history will blame their campaign
and how they failed to run on policy and record--and instead decided to insist
that Barack Obama said he was Ronald Reagan's biggest fan.

In the end, America rejected the tricks and Rovian campaign tactics.

[bellasgrams]

46. He not only praised Reagan he insulted BC. It's just another

example of BO's twisting the truth when he tried to deny it. I heard him myself so did the 2 friends I went to dinner with this eve.

[CoffeeCat]

53. What were you guys drinking at dinner?

Obama never said ONE WORD about any Reagan policy. He never "praised Reagan" as you stated.

Please show me the exact quote in which he did that?

You're caught up in the spin.

The exact quote was that the "Republicans were the party of ideas". Hello. That is a historical fact.
The Republicans coalesced a series of conservative principles and they ran on them and galvanized their
party around those ideas. The Democrats were not as organized. That is a FACT.

Obama never said he liked their ideas. He said he wanted to "change the trajectory in the ways that Reagan did...he
was speaking about mechanics.

As Obama went on to day, "Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of American politics". He did. Reagan
made conservatism cool, and as Obama pointed out--Reagan got Democrats to cross party lines and vote
against their self interests for Reagan. Reagan's influence is still alive today in the Republican
party.

Are you going to deny history? I'm no Reagan fan, but his contributions to their party are undeniable.

Clearly, to anyone who is paying attention and not wanting to distort---Obama is saying that he wants
to "change the trajectory" like Reagan did, and be a President who can get Republicans to cross over.

Bill Clinton did not do that. Ronald Reagan did.

I don't think there's a soul left on the planet--despite the Clinton spin machine--who believes that Obama
loves Reagan's policies.

[sandnsea]

39. Okay challenge

You tell me what your line in the sand is. How bad does bad have to be before you call it what it is.

I'm thinking maybe you just don't know.

They aren't the worst political family in history, but we can do soooo much better.

[CoffeeCat]

30. I think Bill Clinton...

...did enough--on his own--to destroy his legacy.

The campaign he started waging in NV was shameful, and grew into an abomination in SC.

Dem higher-ups came out of the woodwork, to tell him to STFU and quit making a fool of himself.

When your former Labor Secretary chimes in and says that you're using race in an inappropriate
manner, it's a bad move to thumb your nose and then downplay Obama's win by saying, "Oh yeah, well
Jesse Jackson won SC too."

I was a major Bill Clinton fan. I stuck up for him, even when he made his infamous, "I did not have..."
comment. I will always remember Bill Clinton's administration fondly.

However, you cannot blame anyone--especially anyone here--for noticing what every high-level Dem
in the party has noticed. How many Dems (including Ted Kennedy, John Kerry) called Bill to tell
him to knock it off?

And no one said that Hillary is "the worst person in the world". Many of us believe that she shouldn't
be our nominee. That's a valid viewpoint. It's not the end of the world.

[dailykoff]

33. What goes around comes around.

Their legacy would have been much better served if they'd gone out laughing instead of trying to drag the whole freaking party down with them.

[goldcanyonaz]

36. Damn straight, and many of us will be laughing once Obama gets vetted.

[Kahuna]

50. "Laughing?" This is why there is so much disdain for Hillary supporters..

There is a certain air of "entitlement." That if she doesn't win, we'll just take our marbles and go home. Well you know what I say, take your damn marbles! Just like Billary, you're not team players. You think it's all about you. But it's not. It's about all Democrats and Democrats running for congress. Those running for congress know that they will have a tougher challenge with Billary at the top of the ticket than with Obama.

[goldcanyonaz]

51. And this is the reason that there is so much disdain for Obama supporters.

[CoffeeCat]

40. That's so true...

The Clintons were willing to trash Obama seven ways to Sunday, and destroy him--a rising star
in the Democratic party.

My God, they used race to try to win this thing.

It was clear that they were willing to do anything--like, distort, twist, trick--to gain what
they had determined was their birthright. They didn't care how they won, or that they were
fracturing our party and creating so much animosity. Anything to win.

We're supposed to feel bad for these people?

That's crazy.

[dailykoff]

41. They always get all etiquette conscious when they're losing.

I expect we'll be hearing a lot of niceness sermons in the next few days. :)

[ErnestoG]

44. You noticed that too.

[CoffeeCat]

55. Yes, and it's called "playing the victim"...

You attack, attack, attack--and then after the damage of those attacks
is implemented, and people start calling you out on your dirty tricks--you
spend 36 hours looking doe-eyed, innocent and friendly.

It's a tactic, and it's pretty sickening if you ask me.

You see this a lot in dysfunctional and alcoholic families.

Toxic Campaigning at its' finest, brought to you by the Clintons.

[Jed Dilligan]

35. Never was a fan of Clinton or his legacy

We've had enough good ol' boys at the helm of this land. He had the good fortune to preside over a short-lived, false prosperity.

[lapfog_1]

38. Sort of like the Clinton TPs that get regurgitated here over and over

that besmirch Obama...

Like the current three...

"Obama voted "present" on abortion rights issues and so he can't be trusted" (debunked over and over, and yes I know he voted present but that's what NARAL and PP asked him to do)

"Obama has the same record as Hillary on Iraq" (he wasn't there to vote to authorize the use of force against Iraq, his speeches at the time strongly indicate that he thought it was a stupid war.. and yet, because BOTH Hillary and Obama have voted funding for the troops fighting there... that makes both of them what? not pure?)

"Obama is up to his neck in slimy real estate deals and influence peddling" (Because one supporter, who wasn't even under investigation at the time, bought some land next to his. And this is against the specter of Hillary's numerous slimy fund raisers, some now convicted felons like Norman Hsu).

so like Obama supporters are supposed to lay off the campaigner in chief for Hillary? Especially when he does such low down and slimy thing like compare the Obama win in SC to Jesse Jackson, because why, oh, they are both marginal black candidates... right. Or Bill saying that Obama opposition to the war was a "fairy tale" when there are speeches and video of Obama saying over and over "This is a stupid war, I'm against stupid wars". Some fairy tale that. Or the attempt to suppress the union voters in Nevada.

If Bill was so concerned about his legacy, he could do what George H. W. Bush did in 2000 when his son was running for President, issue a statement of support and stay out of it.

[Kahuna]

49. You're likely referring to some threads that I haven't read yet. Still, I'll play..

I feel really bad that if Obama prevails it will redefine Bill's legacy. I really do feel bad about that. But still, why should I be the one to feel bad? He's the one who sought to divide and destroy the Democratic coalition just so that he could go back to the White House. So if his actions are repudiated that's a good thing. But it is also sad.

[MoonRiver]

52. Yes, they do.

That's why we are racing toward President McCain. Nice work.

[Barack_America]

54. How is accurately critiquing someone's voting record a smear?...n/t

[BlueStateGirl]

61. ..

[BlueStateGirl]

62. Well, it was when Bill Clinton pointed out that since he has been in

the Senate his voting record, in regards to Iraq, was the same as Hillary's.

[Vinca]

56. Ditto what's being done to Obama. nt

[boston bean]

57. yeppers they do. it's like visiting free republic when you visit gdp. nt

[GalleryGod]

59. What Legacy? He all but went around SC in a sheet.

Sorry for the bad hyperbole..but I've had it with them!

Hell he just collected $132 Million for the "Bill Foundation"...
that's a lot of wings and doughnuts,Bill.

[DeepModem Mom]

63. I'm an Obama supporter, and I count myself out of that crap. I apologize on behalf...

of my candidate for it, and I wish Senator Clinton and her husband, the former President, all the best, and thank them for their service to our country. I believe and hope I'm not the only Obama supporter on this board who feels the same way -- and my fondest hope is that, as both candidates have also hoped, one of these extraordinary and talented people is the next President of the United States.

[rodeodance]

65. Thank you

[cali]

64. oh just stop your fucking whining

it's just as bad in the other direction, genius. And I've never seen anything as pathetic as the stomping on the Obama endorsement threads by some Hill supporters. When Hillary gets an endorsement, I post my congrats. I don't see Hill supporters doing that. Your perspective is fucked if you think Hillary is the only candidate being trashed.