The D.U. flip flop

[BlackVelvet04]

Is this really the same site that was full of people just months ago that hated republicans, thought they were all snakes and untrustworthy? For over 3 years I've witnessed a deep distrust of all things republican and now we have a board full of people who want bi-partisanship and unity?

[Kittycat]

1. You still don't get it.

[BlackVelvet04]

4. Actually it's YOU who doesn't get it.

But that's no surprise.

[Kittycat]

16. It's about the approach.

Arrogance, and slamming doors isn't going to get them to vote for healthcare programs, educational programs/reform, etc, etc. Obama is more progressive than Clinton, and yet you feel that she's the better option? Put it together - he's the most progressive, and STILL works with republicans? No, he gets them to come over to our side. He's help push through legislation in our state that would NEVER have gotten through without him. But your hatred runs so deep, you can't even see how he does it. How he gets them to agree with him.

I'm sick of the past. I don't want another Clinton, especially one with a bag the size Bill in tow. They set this country up for the mess it's in, by their actions and the laws they helped push through. I'm sick of the progressive crumbs they throw our way in hopes of appeasing us. I'm ready to move forward with real change.

[BlackVelvet04]

23. Oh, yeah, we're back to that whole

persuasion thing. You aren't really going to work with the republicans, Obama will dazzle them into doing things his way. LOL

I feel sorry for that kind of naiveté. I don't hate Obama, I just see him for what he is and I see his supporters being deluded into believing a bunch of bullshit.

[Kittycat]

27. Again, showing how little you know about him.

It's what he's been doing. Here in IL and in the senate. You don't see through anything, because you haven't bothered to look.

[BlackVelvet04]

33. I've looked at lot, kittycat, and I've seen a bunch

of no votes in the senate and present votes. What I'm seeing is a great speaker who has mesmerized a bunch of naive people.....just like the george bush supporters who thought he was one swell guy who was going to unite the country.

[Kittycat]

42. *sigh*

4000 votes. You cherry pick what you don't even understand. Again, showing how little you know about IL politics.

If you want 4 more years of divisive politics and scraps - only to turn it back over to a Puke, you go right on ahead and vote for HRC. NOTHING will mobilize the republicans & independents sick of the clintons, more than putting her on the ticket.

[BlackVelvet04]

58. I was talking mostly about U.S. Senate votes....

and I will vote for Hillary.....at least she's real.

[UALRBSofL]

96. Blackvelvet

I understand where you are coming from. It's clear he is just another SUIT. His flip-flop stump speaches speaks volumes that he will say anything to get elected. The fact he voted PRESENT 8 times on "CHOICE" tells me he has no interest in women and that he isn't willing to stand up for what he says he is in favor of. "Say what you mean and mean what you say" should be the theme of this years political cycle.

[John Q. Citizen]

86. Bill just ignored criminal action on the part of Republicans. He let the crooks walk away

scott free. His excuse was, "Well i knew I'd have to work with them."

Iran/Contra was swept under the rug. The BCCI Bank of Credit, which laudered billions for drug running and terrorism was swept under the rug.

So I guess that isn't a delusion on your part, that's being tough on republicans? Please don't make me laugh in your face.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

111. And this has led to the deterioration of accountability within the Chimpy

administration. Great point.

[nonconformist]

35. I disagree - Hillary is more progressive than Obama.

Her policies and her voting record both indicate that.

[Kittycat]

43. Wrong.

Report just released confirmed Obama is more progressive than HRC.

[nonconformist]

101. Link? nt

[Zodiak]

94. Actually, my results are just the opposite

I track Senate voting records and score them

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3010297

Wyden (Oregon) 65.51724138
Dayton (Minnesota) 65.51724138
Obama (Illinois) 63.79310345
Bayh (Indiana) DLC 60.34482759
Murray (Washington) 60.34482759
Schumer (New York) DLC 58.62068966
Inouye (Hawaii) DLC 56.89655172
Bingaman (New Mexico) 56.89655172
Dorgan (North Dakota) DLC 55.17241379
Reid (Nevada) 55.17241379
Byrd (West Virginia) 55.17241379
Clinton (New York) DLC 53.44827586
Menendez (New Jersey) DLC 50
Cantwell (Washington) DLC 48.27586207
Stabenow (Michigan) DLC 46.55172414

[nonconformist]

102. ProgressivePunch gives Hillary a higher score than Obama

http://progressivepunch.yvod.com/members.jsp?search=selectName&member=ILIII&chamber=Senate&zip=&x=49&y=2

http://progressivepunch.yvod.com/members.jsp?search=selectName&member=NYI&chamber=Senate&zip=&x=52&y=12

[Zodiak]

105. Well, if you want to use Progressive Punch's method,

go ahead. I find their methodology to be awfully baroque and watered down with too many inconsequential votes to have any real meaning. I only concern myself with bill pasages and nominations..things that actually affect the American people.

My work is according to how I see things....what better way to measure our candidates than doing your own homework?

[0007]

129. tag team time, 'eh?

[AJH032]

121. "You still don't get it"

this is probably the most over-used expression on DU.

Translation: I don't have anything to really refute your post, so I'll say this and pretend to be all-knowing.

[D-Sooner]

122. *sigh*

...you still don't get it.

</sarc>

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. du hated Hillary a few years ago

[BlackVelvet04]

The photo in your signature tells me all I need to know

about you.

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. just stating the facts

I've been here since 2002.

[UALRBSofL]

98. Hate is not a democratic word

So please drop the HATE speech. Nothing personal but I have seen this word thrown about before and I don't like it.

[NoodleyAppendage]

114. Damn Straight! DU was decidely anti-Hillary until the Iowa caucus...

...it was after then that the Hillary grassroots efforts were put into full force and DU has been innundated with syncophantic pro-DINO/DLC types ever since. I'm still convinced that some are Hillary staffers or recruits.

[Thrill]

3. We want to win

You should too

[BlackVelvet04]

5. Hillary can win. n/t

[1awake]

17. Maybe the Democratic nomination

but The odds are very long for her in the GE. If she wins the nom, I'll support her, but I hope it doesn't come to that.

[Thrill]

19. We'll have to agree to disagree on that

I don't believe she can. I'll vote for her if she were the nominee, but I think McCain would beat her

[Dogmudgeon]

6. The REAL enemy is Hillary!

Republicans are just misunderstood. They just need a little love.

But Hillary must die! (Well, metaphorically, anyway.)

--p!

[sandnsea]

7. I thought you meant the Great IWR Flip Flop

Silly me.

[BlackVelvet04]

9. You might want to be careful with the IWR flip flop.....

Obama has plenty of his own when he bothers to actually take a stand on something he has to vote on.

[ErnestoG]

15. Obama never voted on IWR. Hillary voted "Yea".

No amount of spitting and sputtering and bluster will change that.

SHE OWNS IT.

[Straight Shooter]

10. It's really not a flip-flop.

It's more like contortionism.

[BlackVelvet04]

14. Isn't it just.

It's one of the scariest things I've ever seen.

[Webster Green]

11. We have a board full of people who want change..

The nineties were cool. Now we're well into the deuzies, and need to move ahead.

We're going to have a dem prez and a dem veto proof majority in both the senate and the house. We'll give 'em some bi-partisanship alright. We'll let 'em vote and everything, but they will lose.

Heh!:smoke:

[BenDavid]

12. The whole damn election is about taking the country in a whole

new direction as the president presents to the congress her budget and in that budget is the direction the president plans to take the country...

History has shown that appeasement never leads to peace when you are dealing with the republicans. and if obama the piped piper thinks he can reach across the aisle and work with the rethugs then obama will have a new nic.....captain hook or peg leg bates


Oh and maybe one of the first pieces of legislation that HRC will sign is the SChips providing children with health care

[Webster Green]

31. Oh, Please!......Politics is all about compromise..

Having The White House and a veto proof majority in the Senate should provide nice leverage in the negotiations with the pukes.

Think about all the powers that the chimp will have given to Obama! It will be great!

[BlackVelvet04]

37. I get it....

none of you are interested in compromise and unity. You think you can strong arm or sweet talk the republicans into capitulating, which makes you not only naive but dishonest about your desires and intentions.

[Webster Green]

49. I just said it was all about compromise.

Tuff shit for them that we will have more leverage. That's the way the system is designed to work, and it's about time the damn thing swings in our direction for awhile.

Isn't it?

[MediaBabe]

77. What do you need a veto proof Senate for

If you have the White House?

What do you want Obama for if you think he's going to veto good democratic legislation?

Or am I getting to deep for you?

Vote Clinton.

[Webster Green]

78. Yeah, I screwed that up, but you know what i mean

I was gonna edit, but said fuck it.

[MediaBabe]

79. I didn't know but I do now. *grin*

I don't think you need to edit. No one seems to have noticed but me.

[Bongo Prophet]

100. I noticed, but gave it a pass, thinking maybe filibuster proof was meant

Now that is pertinent to this scenario.

[ErnestoG]

13. Do you honestly believe there are no good hearted, smart people....

who for whatever reason found themselves in the Republican party, but now want to enlighten themselves and make an exit? Are you REALLY that narrow minded and out-of-the-know?

Do you want your little our-way-or-the-highway clique, or do you want to transform the nation to be a better place?

[BlackVelvet04]

18. Wow....

where'd you get that rhetoric? You really didn't address the point.

[ErnestoG]

38. rhetoric? You think the Democratic party has the monopoly on all smarts and heart?

Then you need to get out more.

I believe this is the best party, but we can always learn more, and we can always give a hand out to people who want to learn a better way.

Good luck finding allies. You're gonna need it.

[Barack_America]

20. No. I've always believe that Independents and Republicans are Americans too.

I've always believed that their opinions count. That doesn't mean that I yield to their ideas, but I will listen them and try to make them understand where I'm coming from.

I've never believed that partisan politics were in the best interests of this country.

[BlackVelvet04]

26. Sad......

try to make them understand where I'm coming from. Let me know how that works out for ya.

[Barack_America]

34. If you're open-minded, it tends to work out pretty well.

It's called living in the Midwest, where families are often comprised of equal parts Democrat/Republican/Independent. We know how to live together, and work together. We're forced to.

[BlackVelvet04]

39. That's not representative of politicians. n/t

[Tatiana]

95. Well, I'll take David Brock, John Eisenhower. and any others that want to renounce the Dark Side.

Kansas may have figured out what's the matter:

Nine ex-Republicans run as Dems in Kansas
Political crossover striking in bedrock Bush territory

Democrats consider it significant that 58 GOP incumbents in the state House drew Democratic opposition this year, compared with 39 in 2004. In the September primary, moderates mobilized to carry two Board of Education seats held by conservatives who had embarrassed many Kansans by endorsing a fundamentalist-Christian critique of evolution.

The recruiter-in-chief is Sebelius, who persuaded Republican Cessna executive John E. Moore to switch parties in 2002 and run to be her lieutenant governor.

"These are people who felt banished," Sebelius said in an interview before crowing to Democratic campaign workers: "We have some remarkable conversions. My favorite kind of revival is going to a place where someone says, 'I've been a Republican all my life, and I've seen the light.' " Sebelius, who has a solid lead over Republican challenger Jim Barnett, is the daughter-in-law of a Republican former member of Congress, and she likes to say the first Republican she converted was her husband. She has shown, notably in debates over school funding and the state budget, that she can negotiate compromises acceptable to both parties. Kansas has had a balanced budget for four straight years after six years of deficits.

This year, with Moore stepping aside, Sebelius recruited Parkinson, who views himself as squarely in the mainstream, talking up fiscal responsibility and a favorable business climate. He favors embryonic stem cell research, a woman's right to choose abortion and the teaching of evolution as settled scientific theory.

(more....)

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/the06fix/index.php?id=303

[GoldieAZ49]

117. so true

this is one country with 2 political parties that have used the politics of divisiveness for their own gain, not Americas.

Americans all want the same thing
Security
Economic Opportunity
Health Care
Education
Alternative Energy

Obama is the first candidate in 20 years that offers the opportunity to unite the two parties and move this country forward.

Leave the divisiveness to the Rush's and Coulters that have made themselves rich at the expense of all of us.

Hillary is just another round in the same old BS politics that DOESN'T WORK

[LordJFT]

21. if it creates a permanent democratic majority, abosolutely

[gasoline highway]

22. I just registered today...

But I've been lurking during primary season. I am not a republican plant, I havent been here long enough to do anything but laugh at the concept of republican plants here. I am a first time voter who is 18. I study Political Science at American University.

[Big Blue Marble]

81. Highway, welcome to DU.

We are glad you are here. But fasten your seat belt. GD-P is a mosh pit.


:yourock:

[calmblueocean]

24. Votes of disaffected Republicans, yes. Unity with Republicans in the Senate, no.

That's what I think folks like yourself don't get. There are a lot of folks out there who label themselves as Republicans, but are basically Democrats without self-knowledge. Their Dad may have started them on the Republican path, they may only know other Republicans, whatever... there are as many ways to get to that spot as there are voters.

Yes, we want to reach out to these people, the ones who think America has gone off the rails. Because they have Democratic hearts.

But in the Senate, we're striving towards ideals. We want to have the votes to accomplish our goals. We get that by having big coattails, and we get big coattails by making our campaign a movement. The more disaffected Republicans we get on board, the bigger our mandate. The bigger our mandate, the more power we have to get our ideals accomplished.

Get it yet?

[1awake]

25. Very well put! n/t

[BlackVelvet04]

29. OMFG....

they have Democratic hearts. Ok, it's really time to step away from the fairy dust. Do you guys truly believe the bullshit you're spouting?

[calmblueocean]

40. Do you not know any Republican voters? I do. I know lots.

And I know what I'm talking about as a fact.

There are lots of people who vote Republican because they've been taught that that label is the "virtuous" label. The events of the past eight years have put them in a state of cognitive dissonance where they are open to the idea that a Democrat might just be the smart vote this time around. If you honestly question this, you need to get out and meet more people.

Disaffected Republican voters, yes we want their fucking votes. And if we get enough, and enough Independents, we can call the tune in Congress.

That's the strategy. My suggestion? Get on board or get out of the way.

[BlackVelvet04]

45. So, basically you are all a bunch of liars....

who pretend to want bi-partisanship and unity when what you are really supporting is manipulation and strong arming. Wow.

No, I won't get on board or out of the way because what I'm seeing being said here is despicable.

[calmblueocean]

52. You are adorable. You find yourself cornered, and you lash out.

There's nothing disingenuous about trying to get the whole country on the same page. That's what we're talking about. Not "bipartisanship".

First you accuse us of selling out to the Republicans. Then when you understand what the goal is -- to unify this country behind progressive principles, labels be damned -- you become the Republican Defender.

At least you get the idea now, so you can't go around saying the same old lies.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[1awake]

46. The world is not nearly as black and white

as you seem to think it is. It's hard to believe I know, but most of America does not resemble DU.. or freeperville.. or Hannity.. or any of the others. It would be easier to paint everyone with the same brush but it would be a lie and both harmful to them as well as to us. It's not about extending your hand across the isle to Republicans.. it's about getting those next door.. across the street etc to learn to think a different way. Everything else is preaching to the choir isn't it?

[BlackVelvet04]

50. Like I said....

you're a bunch of liars pretending to want to reach across the aisle to work with the republicans when all you want is to manipulate them to get your way.

[1awake]

53. only one attempting to strong arm.. is you. n/t

[TwilightGardener]

28. Repubs = Nasty flies. Hillary = vinegar. Obama = honey.

We'll draw them in to swatting range. :evilgrin:

[BlackVelvet04]

30. Yeah, that'll work....

:eyes:

[TwilightGardener]

32. Workin' pretty good so far for my Honey, isn't it?

[BlackVelvet04]

36. Not really......

it's sucked in a bunch of naive people and I don't think by any stretch of the imagination the republicans sitting in congress are naive.

[TwilightGardener]

41. I'm not naive. Neither is Ted Kennedy. Nor John Kerry.

[Sapphocrat]

44. I understand it, and I'm sorry I do.

Maybe when I'm not feeling quite so low (I just lost a friendship, permanently, I am sure, over these goddamned-to-hell primaries), I'll try to explain it; suffice to say, I understand it.

And I hate it, with every fiber of my being.

[BlackVelvet04]

47. Do you see what I'm seeing here?

Not people who want unity and bi-partisanship but people who think they can manipulate and strong arm. And that's EXACTLY the thing people sense about Obama that they haven't quite been able to put their finger on....the disingenuousness of it all.

[Sapphocrat]

48. Yes, I see it, BV.

"Unity and bi-partisanship" is just the current euphemism for it.

[1awake]

51. I see it to, though we are not talking about the same thing I am sure. n/t

[Sapphocrat]

63. I am sure we are not. n/t

[BlackVelvet04]

54. I'm truly saddened and disgusted by it all.....

and I won't vote for Obama in the G.E.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sapphocrat]

69. Oh, they'll flame you, try to intimidate you, shame you...

...but you will be able to sleep at night with a clear conscience.

Core values, BV. It's all about core values.

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

[BlackVelvet04]

73. Thanks....

Yes, it is about core values. I think I'm done with this thread. I found out what I wanted to know.

Night, and sleep well.

[1awake]

80. values..

what values.. you only seem to value yourselves and to hell with everyone else. If that's your values then you have more to consider than this election.

[Sapphocrat]

83. That's exactly what you don't understand.

It's far more than this -- or any -- election.

Goodnight.

[1awake]

87. I am not trying

to pick a fight with you, or anyone else. I have been insulted, cursed at, looked down upon, called a liar... so yea, I'm feeling a tad off. I see three possibilities here.. I am to tired to understand a point that velvet was making that didn't involve elitism... Velvet needs to express himself better beyond "I'm cool and everyone else sucks"... or how he's coming across is accurate.

Which is it.. or is it something else? I'm listening.

[Sapphocrat]

97. I hope you're not setting me up...

...because I am going to answer you in complete sincerity.

I've been "insulted, cursed at, looked down upon, called a liar," and a Hillbot, and accused of "faux outrage," and more, for what is simply genuine resistance to "Obama fever," for genuine, valid reasons -- which I've spelled out, repeatedly, yet which I'm told, repeatedly, are invalid.

I've explained, countless times, and no one in the Obama camp takes me seriously -- they tell me I'm looking for a reason to "hate" Obama (I don't), that I was a Hillbot all along (wrong; I've been extremely critical of Hillary, and I don't have blinders on now), that "all gays" are voting for Hillary anyway (this gay wasn't, until I was forced into a choice between a known quantity with viable solutions, as opposed to a host of empty platitudes from a man more than willing to throw me to the anti-gay crusaders).

Nobody in the Obama camp takes me seriously, and I don't expect you to either. It's nothing personal (how can it be, as I don't know you?), but after all these months of Obama supporters doing just that, why should I believe you're any different?

I don't know if you're setting me up, like so many others have tried. But I'm tired of being set up. I'm tired of being accused of being everything I'm not. And I'm getting very close to saying: "OK, you win -- y'all can celebrate grinding another uppity homo into the dirt."

'Cause that's all it's about -- that's all I see, and that, I sincerely believe, is what BV is saying here: Nothing matters except winning. And those of us who are not among the Obama faithful must be converted, and if we cannot be converted, we must be worn down, ground down, demoralized, devalued, destroyed. There is no middle ground. You won't even listen to us. You just belittle us, attack our intelligence, our character, our very humanity.

Do you see why those of us "resistance fighters" scoff at your pep talks about "unity"? You want "unity" with the right wing, when you can't even give the most loyal within your own party half the consideration you give our common enemy!

Enough. I don't expect this to make any sense to you. I only expect to be flamed to death by the "Why do you hate CHANGE?!?!?!?! Why don't you have HOPE?!?!?!?!" mob, already storming up the hill with torches and pitchforks without reading this post in its entirety, let alone bothering to think about what it means.

You may very well win the nomination. You may very well win the White House. But you will have lost me, and you will have lost my faith in the Democratic party, and in the democratic process. And I will make you and all Obama supporters this promise now: If Obama gets the nomination, I will log off DU once and for all. Oh, I could live through an Obama presidency (hell, I've lived through LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Bush I, Reagan, and Bush II -- I can survive anything!), but I will not be able to abide by the frothing gloating that will come from the Obama camp -- which does not want "unity," but only wants to win, at any cost.

And if that means nothing to you, well, then you've proved my point. Because, goddamnit, I am just as important as you are.

[BlackVelvet04]

103. Well said,

and I'm with you.

[1awake]

119. Knowing abit more

about who you are, in all honesty puts into perspective for me most of my whining about how I perceived Velvet treating me. I do not enjoy being categorized, lumped into groups, and being told how bad I am and then being dismissed. Unfortunately, you probably have huge insights into these things over the years, and thus you are the last person I should be complaining to.

I disagree with you on several points concerning Obama, though I will agree that there are many unknown quantities. To clarify, I have no wish to unify with the right wing. Until recently, I was counted as one of the right wing. I have stated in other posts that I believe the right wing needs to be destroyed as a viable political entity. To me, that doesn't sound like unity. That does not mean I am willing to through out the baby with the bath water. I know for a fact, there are people.. everyday people like you and I who have voted on the right. Who think more like us, than the right wing talking heads who spout things like freedom, Pride in our country, and all the other wonderful things that they've twisted to sway. I am not willing to give up even one person to their lies and corruption. I also am not willing to give up you either. Believing in the ability to bring some of those republicans over to our side does not negate my ability to see you, your thoughts and feelings, nor your value, which I do hold in esteem. I have never met you, and most likely I never will. But you do not know me either, nor my belief's as an individual.

I have never made a post telling Hillary supporters they must convert, and while I have stated I think she will lose the GE, I have also stated that I will furiously support her if she wins the nom. And none of this has anything to do with how I feel about Hillary as a political figure, or as a human being.

I do not want to win at any cost, but I do want to win. If I thought for a second Obama or Hillary would cause harm to come to anyone on the progressive side, I would not vote for either of them, even if it meant 4 more years of republican rule. Again, I am not willing to lose even one, even though I am just one.

If Obama loses the nom and Hillary is elected, I will be feeling pretty down. AFter a day or two, I will pick myself back up, dust myself off, and focus on doing all that I can to get Hillary into the office. I am not asking you to do the same thing, I only ask that you don't do what several of the Obama supporters have done (as you pointed out) and lump us altogether as one. And if the Obama camp continues to do it, then they do it at their own demise. What did lincoln say.. a divided house can't stand? It still rings true today.

Thank you for taking the time and answering. I do hold you in value, and hope you understand I am in no way attempting to placate you.


LK

ps-

Yea, this is alittle corny but It's a quote that I love:

"But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you... I love you. With all my heart, I love you."

–Valerie

[ErnestoG]

84. Thank you.

[mihalevich]

56. Obama Obama Obama

And I was part of this site in 2001... just lost my login

[mihalevich]

59. In the early years this site

was dedicated to the few true patriots that descended against the iraq war. Obama was with us all along...

[ErnestoG]

61. Damn right he was. He never voted yes on IWR.

[BlackVelvet04]

104. He never VOTED on IWR PERIOD. n/t

[ErnestoG]

128. Well isnt that something!

[calmblueocean]

57. We want to unify the country behind progressive policies, labels be damned.

There's no "strong arming" or "manipulation" there. We want to get the country behind our ideas, so we can turn them into reality. We're changing the minds of the represented, so the representatives will change too. That's democracy -- or don't you get that, either?

You're just pissed off, looking for a new way to smear Obama.

Hell, I can't stop you, but I can call you out on it.

BTW: If Hillary's the nom, I'll vote for her, too. But I think the way she campaigns is exactly what you're decrying here. Hillary is tough, and 4 or 8 years of her presidency will require a series of "strong armed" votes in Congress. It will require endless "manipulation" to achieve our goals.

Let go of your anger for just a bit and think about it for a while.

[Political Heretic]

65. I don't get how a hillar y supporter can talk about disingenuousness with a straight face.

I really don't. That may be a direct attack on your candidate, and I really fight hard to avoid that. But I just sort of sit here stunned when Hillary Clinton supporters start calling other candidates disingenuous. Both Hillary and Bill Clinton elevated the perverse art political manipulation and tactics to new levels, and the only thing I've ever seen either of them be consistently genuinely concerned about is themselves.

[BlackVelvet04]

68. I'm really glad you guys exposed yourselves

for what you really are. Thanks.

[Political Heretic]

72. I'm really glad you've exposed yourself for what you are. Thanks.

See? Make a meaningless issue diverting quip too! :hi:

[ErnestoG]

85. Here's me exposing myself.

the dog may need therapy.

[Political Heretic]

62. TOTAL RED HERRING

Anyone who isn't being totally dishonest purely for political gain knows that the kind of unity being talked about is a united American people. You can't listen to Obama speak, or read his words without seeing that fact on its face.

Obama is about Uniting the American People behind Democratic ideals. Remember the book, What's the matter with Kansas?. It asked the question, how can the people who would benefit from the policies and politics of liberalism the most constantly vote against their own best interests? The Obama message is that its time to change that.

As I have written before, when you strip away all the political spin, and the partisan entrenchment, the people of the United States actually SHARE many core beliefs and expectations for their government.

A majority of ordinary people on both sides of the isle believe that we have a health care crisis. A majority of ordinary people on both sides of the isle believe that this war was either ill-advised or ill-executed or both, and that it is hurting us economically, hurting us diplomatically and that its time we brought it to a close.

A majority of ordinary people on both sides of the isle believe that massive out of control spending and deficits combined with legal exemptions allowing multi-billion dollar corporations to pay less in taxes than a middle-class family is a failure of our system - regardless of what they think about higher or lower taxes in general or about the spending priorities of washington.

A majority of ordinary people across both sides of the isle feel that the protection of constitutional rights for American Citizens matter, and that accountability in government is tragically missing.

The disconnect is between the polarizing propaganda of beltway politicians and the establishment media consistently bombarding the airwaves speaking for the American people and telling them what they believe. While reseach consistently indicates that when partisan rhetoric is stripped away, the American people are overwhelmingly in favor of a richer, progressive more community oriented America. It is time for a leader who will unite ordinary people across political divides around these common goals. That message of unity is not some secret scheme. It is the vision for a better tomorrow.

When those who don't support Obama - and I respect your choice, and your candidate - rush in to try to twist and pervert this message into some sort of MEME that Obama is coming to take the democratic party away and unite with washington professional political neo-conservatives....well, its kind of gross.

[BlackVelvet04]

64. You guys have exposed yourselves

as far as I'm concerned. You only want unity if you can manipulate everyone to your way of thinking. That's disgusting and frightening and GROSS.

I wouldn't vote for Obama if he were the only candidate.

[1awake]

66. I wouldn't want you to after this thread.

you know.. talking with you is like being back in high school. Your like the cool kids sitting over in the corner telling everyone else to go to hell because their not good enough.. disgusting.




added pointless rant on edit

[BlackVelvet04]

70. good.....

then we're both satisfied with the result.

[Political Heretic]

67. Translation: I have no coherent response.

[BlackVelvet04]

71. Only for those who can't read......

buzz off.

[Political Heretic]

75. Well argued! Epsecially the part where you have no response to any point.

...They just hand there in the internet air, for everyone to read. They get to read my thought out, clear response to your original post, and then they get to read.... well you.... making silly meaningless quips and telling me to buzz off.

Hmmm... :D

[mihalevich]

74. I just

fell That Obama represents what the DU has stood for sense it's conception. Change!

[calmblueocean]

76. This is the most bizarre response I have ever read on this site.

"You only want unity if you can manipulate everyone into your way of thinking."

WTF is manipulative about *asking* people to vote for your candidate, and telling them *what your candidate will do that's better* than things are now?

Please tell me.

[DUyellow]

91. tsk tsk

[DUyellow]

92. tsk tsk

[Adelante]

99. Excellent post nt

[andyrowe]

82. It's simply about this.

A wise man who would be President of the United States once said, "We worship a mighty God in the blue states and we don't like Federal agents poking around our libraries in the red states."

[DUyellow]

89. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States....

There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.

[andyrowe]

126. Fired up!

Ready to go!

[DUyellow]

130. Heck YEAH!

[DUyellow]

88. I am an American FIRST, I have been over seas, we look like a joke. We can do better, and i do....

not care who i have to work with to make that happen. Republicans, Independents, Democrats. We have worked together in the past to make this country the beacon for the world, It is about time we go back to that mind set.

[geiger]

90. I, for one, do not support bi-partisanship.

The Republicans fuck us over every chance they get, and need to prove to us, that they will truly act to uphold their oaths over protecting Party.

[nonconformist]

113. Your guy there talks about bi-partisanship and working with the Republicans constantly.

Were you not aware?

[Califooyah Operative]

93. hmm

you either don't get it or you get it and you see it all slipping away. Either way, get off your perch. you don't know anything the rest of us don't.

[maximusveritas]

106. We're choosing bipartisanship/unity over centrism/DLC

If you don't know the difference, check out my post on it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4301890

[BlackVelvet04]

109. Your fellow supporters don't support bipartisanship

at all.

[mtnsnake]

107. Hey, what's with the blatant swipe at snakes?

Is this really the same site that was full of people just months ago that hated republicans, thought they were all snakes and untrustworthy?

A more suitable analogy would've been maggots, not snakes :smoke:

[goldcanyonaz]

108. GoMAMA!

:woohoo:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

110. Thanks for contributing to the toxicity of this forum!

What would we do without posts like this?

[stevietheman]

112. Perhaps some of us don't want the Democratic version of 'W': Hillary n/t

n/t

[Straight Shooter]

115. Some people want to feed the dogs that will bite them.

Repubs froth at the mouth every chance they get to diminish Democrats, but we're supposed to believe that Barack is the dog whisperer? Not a chance. Repubs are hyenas. Doesn't matter if we all "know a good Repub." I know good Repubs, too, but they aren't in Congress.

[Blue-Jay]

116. This is the same board that used to distrust the DLC too.

:shrug:

[GoldieAZ49]

118. So you don't want progress

I thought that was what being "progressive" was all about

this is one country with 2 political parties that have used the politics of divisiveness for their own gain, not Americas.

Americans all want the same thing
Security
Economic Opportunity
Health Care
Education
Alternative Energy

Obama is the first candidate in 20 years that offers the opportunity to unite the two parties and move this country forward.

Leave the divisiveness to the Rush's and Coulters that have made themselves rich at the expense of all of us.

Hillary is just another round in the same old BS politics that DOESN'T WORK

[Metric System]

120. The MSM has spoken. It only has our best interest at heart. Now let's all vote for Obama!

[Clinton Crusader]

123. That's right, hated freepers, Rethugs, Chimpy, Cheney, you name it, NOW..

this is what they do all day long...



Makes me sick, sad, and distraught.

The freepers must be wetting their pants with glee and orgasmic pleasure how the DUers are shitting on the best DEM president in DECADES. You'd NEVER catch Rethugs doing that to a Rethug, ever. That's part of why they win, they stick together no matter what. This place is like a pack of wolves on a feeding frenzy, but a circular one.

Shameful.

[goldcanyonaz]

125. That cartoon sums up how I feel too. The GOP won't need anything other than this forum to defeat us

We kill our own.

[robbedvoter]

124. You need to go to GD for that. This one has been invaded by pod people

[ShortnFiery]

127. People of good faith need to move beyond the "Us" (good) vs. "Them" (evil) partisan politics

It works out very well for "the investor classes" but financially rapes us "little people" who don't have over a million invested in the stock market.

I think that *the issues* should rank much higher in our political discourse than "which party" one is affiliated within.

Especially after The Clintonian DLC has carried our beloved Democratic Party to border on the Corporate-MIDDLE ground, PARTY affiliation is becoming quite an amorphous "blunt force object" many to weld haphazardly over others? :shrug: