Hillary's is the best plan for Healthcare.

[boston bean]

In a nutshell, as far as I understand, she wants to be sure everyone is insured to start. People will be able to keep their own insurance or get the congresses health plan. There will be subsidies for people who can truly not afford healthcare. People will have to get health insurance, just like you have to have house insurance and car insurance.

But here is where it makes its way to truly universal healthcare. If enough people are involved in the gov't healthcare system, it will drive down the prices of free market health care and create competition, which does not exist today.

More than likely over time we will have single payer health care and this is how you get it through the back door.

It is true when she says, if you leave 15M out of the loop, we will never get there.

Even John Edwards fervently disagreed with Obama on this issue and basically called him out in the last debate they were in together.

So, go ahead and keep on spouting the rw talking points of your uniter candidate and vote against your own interests.

[debbierlus]

1. Hillary is the better canidate

She is my last choice (Kucinich, Edwards are gone), but she is better then Obama by FAR.

[Thrill]

58. Not if you want to win Congress and the Presidency

[dkf]

2. Problem is it won't pass. Once you say "mandate" all the

libertarians/republicans are against it from the start.

And then when people look at their expenses and decide that what Hillary says is affordable is not within the budget then they will be against it.

We are going into a recession. The thought of extra costs may be a deal breaker for many Americans.

[boston bean]

3. so we will never have universal healthcare. She is willing to fight the fight, I guess obama will

capitulate.

[dkf]

28. Universal healthcare needs to be achieved through

single payer.

You should not be forced to enroll in plans offered by for-profit health insurance companies who make boatloads of $ by denying you services for whatever reason they want to.

I don't understand why no one wants to use our government systems instead of relying on private cos.

[milkyway]

27. Exactly! "Mandate" is a killer. That's why Obama is picking up so many endorsements

from Congress members from the mountain west and plains states. This region has a strong libertarian streak, and they have started to go Dem thanks to Bush enlarging the size and power of the federal government. Many now seem Dems as less intrusive in their lives than repugs. Hillary and her healthcare plan will kill that trend.

Obama will not try to cram down the throats of these Dems a healthcare plan that will only lose them their seat. They will have a difficult time going home and trying to sell a plan where the government is forcing them to do something for their own good.

Obama can get his plan passed, and help Dems take over this region. If the repugs lose these states, they are reduced to being a regional party.

Teddy said he's tried to get universal health care 12 times over nearly a half century. He's 0 for 12. His crowning legacy could be helping Barack get elected, and then getting a health care plan to actually pass.

[Ravy]

39. Also why his plan won't work.

You can't minimize costs and still pay for those that do not have insurance because they do not want to pay.

[patrice]

4. Yes. She's not afraid to say Universal Health Care. nt

[Kahuna]

7. Because she's not afraid to LIE. Universal is single payer. Both

candidates are offering insurance policies.

[boston bean]

18. this is not true. you are being feared mongered.

When will people wake up and realize we have to take some baby steps to get the single payor health care.

Look at the push back that is happening now, from a member of our own party, making you scared.

Hillary has said and this is what she meant, she is willing to stake her career to get universal healthcare for america.

I believe her. Obama is willing to use any trick, even getting you to vote against your best interests so he can sit in the oval office.

[patrice]

37. I know Gatekeepers when I run into one.

The Machine $peak$.

P.S. =/= you.

[milkyway]

51. Taking some steps to single payer is exactly what Obama is doing. The difference is

that he's got a better chance of getting his plan passed, and his plan won't kill the inroads the Dems have made in the mountain west states that have a libertarian streak.

The federal government telling people they have to buy something because it's for their own good is a tough argument in much of the country. The next step after Obama's plan could be something similar to Hillary's plan. Give people some time to get comfortable with Obama's plan and it will be a lot harder for the demagogues of the right to defeat it.

[Ravy]

40. Universal is "everyone is covered". nt

[no name no slogan]

5. H.R. 676 is the best plan for health care

unfortunately, none of our front runners has the guts to support it.

So once again, Dems are left fighting over whose Nixon-inspired plan is the best.

:(

[Kahuna]

6. How much will it cost us individually?

[NoodleyAppendage]

8. Hillary steps in it this morning on This Week and now the Clintonites are out undoing the damage.

Voting for Hillary is a "vote against your own interests," as she is GUARANTEED TO TANK in the general election. I welcome your apology when your "girl" gets her ass kicked in the general election.

BTW - how does she match up against McCain in the most recent polls? Which candidate fairs better than McCain?

J

[sandnsea]

9. 25% of drivers don't have auto insurance

Who doesn't know that? Mandates don't equate to full coverage at all. It's just a way to sweep the problem under the rug and say you've solved it when you haven't.

[boston bean]

12. licenses are given out by the states, this will be run by the federal gov't

it is the best way to work towards single payor healthcare.

[sandnsea]

21. That won't make any difference

How do you think that will make a difference?

The best way is to provide a public program, regulate insurance benefits, and provide generous monthly premium subsidies, the way Obama does.

[boston bean]

34. what do you think hillary's plan does? helloooooooooooooo

[sandnsea]

42. No she doesn't

She doesn't have a plan to regulate insurance companies. And TAX CREDITS at the end of the year ARE NOT subsidies. Anybody who has to figure out how to feed their kids every month knows the damn difference.

[boston bean]

43. You are foolish

Insurance companies won't be able to deny you coverage or drop you because their computer model says you're not worth it. They will have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium. And like other things that you buy, they will have to compete for your business based on quality and price. Families will have the security of knowing that if they become ill or lose their jobs, they won't lose their coverage.

[Prefer]

10. So it forces everyone to buy the care product

does it address costs?
we need to fix this broken industry that has lost its way.

[boston bean]

15. yes it addresses costs. There will be subsidies to help people to afford it.

This is the first step towards single payor health care. please don't be scared by rw tactics even if they are coming from the left, cause he is only interested in getting elected and will say anything.

The proof is in the pudding. Hillary has always said she is ready for this fight and I 100% believe her. She will stake her political career on it, unlike others in this race.

[Prefer]

22. Once more, DOES IT REDUCE COSTS?

A plan that supports a failed industry is not a plan, it's a giveaway.

All this does is force hardworking people to pay for the irresponsible.

We need to LOWER COSTS.

Does Hillary's plan address lowering costs? Is there bargaining power? Or we just agreeing to have everyone buy whatever they decide to sell us?

[boston bean]

31. yes and it works this way

many people will be enrolled in the gov't health care system (the one congress uses) which gives great bargaining power to the gov't. She has outlined many ways to reduce the costs.

Basically this plan is to bring true universal healthcare through the back door. By, giving people a choice to particiapate in it. The plan is that this will bring more competition to cut costs and make private ins. co's have to be cost effective to get you to want to go with them. And increase their coverage for the same reason.

[sandnsea]

24. There will be subsidies for TAX CREDITS

Which don't help people pay their monthly bills.

They told us their college tax credits were going to solve all of our higher education problems too. How come nobody remembers that?

[dkf]

33. And tax credits can be screwed around with by whoever

comes up next.

When the next group of right wing let the poor suffer get into office these credits could be gone. Then people are screwed.

This is not a permanent fix.

[RC]

53. Forget the damn insurance companies. They are corrupt to the core and

will only buy off the needed congress critters again. Get them out of the equation in the first place. Only a government run health care or socialized system will work in the long run.

There is nothing wrong with a socialized health care system. Our roads are socialized. Our water is socialized. Our sewers are socialized. The Insurance concept itself is socialized. Fire and Police Departments, the Sheriff are socialized.

So what is so wrong with Health Care being socialized? Doing that would lower the costs for everyone. Everyone would be covered, being employed or not. It that not a good thing?

[TankLV]

11. Hillary has a PROVEN TRACK RECORD on Universal Health CARE for ALL...

and anybody who doen't know that is and IDIOT...

Obama is a "johnny come lately" and his plan will leave the MAJORITY of those currently without ACCESS to Health CARE without. Period.

[dkf]

35. Hillary has a great record of putting together unpassable plans.

[lvx35]

13. Yeah, I have looked and I still think her plan is spot on.

I love that pic by the way. I wonder if she ever listened to "Are you Experienced" by Jimi Hendrix when she was a hippy, that would be funny...(you know, where Jimi asks in the lyrics "are you experienced?") 40 years later she finds herself fighting for the nomination to be president arguing to another young talented black man that she is, in fact, experienced. :)

[Cleita]

17. There's going to be a big spot, er hole in your wallet if

she gets her plan passed (she won't) and you will not get quality health care anyway. As long as insurers are in charge of the delivery, they will be making profits and denying claims any chance they get to improve the bottom line.

[lvx35]

20. I would just choose government health care.

You can choose private or government in her plan.

[Cleita]

44. Her plan to make it mandatory is what stinks.

That means you are going to have to cough up the premium or jump through qualifying hoops to be subsidized by government. This means that a lot of people are going to suffer hardship to come up with the premium. Single payer covers everyone with no strings attacked and they fund it by various taxes that take money from where it's available.

You could still buy private insurance under single payer if you choose. It's your money to waste. It's just that people won't be dependent on the insurance companies to make medical decisions for them or worry how they will pay their premiums. You will of course have to pay your share of the payroll tax into single payer even if you choose not to use it.

[boston bean]

45. ta da and you're on your way to single payor. jesus, this is a tight rope

she's trying to walk here.

Look at the resistance she is getting now.

Obama will not even get you on the road to single payor healthcare.

[Cleita]

47. That's why neither she nor Obama have my vote in the primaries.

Neither really are going to do anything about this issue. It's all empty campaign promises. They know that their overbloated programs will not be passed by any Congress whether Democratic or Republican because they are unworkable. Then they can shove it on the back burner for eight years just like Clinton did. It's all very cynical on their part. And in the meantime thousands of Americans will die every year for lack of access to quality medical care.

[boston bean]

25. It is obvious you have not read her plan. please do not fall for these

tricks again. Especially when it's one from our own party that is using fear.

Where's obama's hope that this can be done for americans.

This is a really important issue and it should tell you something when he is willing to use these types of tactics to get to the white house.

[Cleita]

38. I have been judiciously reading her plans since 1993

and they all fall short. She just won't admit the obvious thing that health care is not a profit commodity to be traded on the stock market.

[Cleita]

14. Insured eh? This is the problem with our health care. The

greedy insurers have brought us here. Keeping them in the game will make matters worse. This is not what we need. We need John Conyers health care plan HR 676 to be passed by Congress and not vetoed by any sitting President. It is single payer universal health care and similar plans have already proven to be workable solutions in other countries for everyone involved, employers, patients, health care providers and taxpayers.

[zulchzulu]

16. It's the best plan for the healthcare insurance industry

Forcing people to have to buy healthcare insurance that doesn't even address affordability, consistent coverage including pre-existing conditions and has phony garbage like saying that both the healthcare and pharma industries will act in "good faith" is:

- A huge profit motive for the healthcare insurance industry, where Hillary has lots of contributions from PACs
- Does nothing to stop skyrocketing pharma costs
- Makes people be forced to buy insurance OR get fined, have taken out of wages or penalized if they show up at a hospital

[Cleita]

19. Thanks!

:thumbsup:

[BootinUp]

26. There is so much wrong info in your post it should be some kind of rule infraction, lol.

[Cleita]

48. Could you please point out what is wrong in that post and

your sources so that we can educate you?

[OzarkDem]

56. Clinton's plan offers a choice between govt and private plans

Are you just uninformed on the issue or what?

[BootinUp]

23. BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

Hello progressives? anyone home?

[liberalnurse]

29. American Nursing Association Endorses Hillary

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/02-01-2008/0004747684&EDATE=

Health Care is our Primary Focus and HILLARY can make this a reality.

[Cleita]

50. So what do you think of this?

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/january/rns_praise_courageou.php

Arnold's plan was similar to Hillary's.

[John Q. Citizen]

30. I support Obama, and his plan, Hillary's plan and Edward's plan all suck!

Let say it like it is. They are all means foe the govenment to subsidize private health insurance companies.

A couple of years ago, bush had a plan for social security. The plan called for using public tax dollars to subsidize private investment firms, to provide retirement insurance. It's sucked, it was a stupid idea and the Dems said so.

Yet, now all three candidates are proposing to use public tax dollars to subsidize private insurance companies to provide health insurance.

What don't people understand about why this is a stupid idea, whatever the details are. It's just plain bad public policy. If it's a bad idea for retirement insurance, why is it a good idea for health insurance?

By the way, fire insurance isn't required unless by the terms of a mortagage. It's not required if your house(s) are paid off. The lenders require it, in the case of a mortgage.

We should also socialize basic mandatory auto insurance. Pay for it at the pump, have a statewide insurance pool and everyone with gas in their car is insured at the minimum state mandated levels. No more uninsured drivers, no more spending tax dollars for police and courts to enforce a state law to require people buy private insurence from a private company. Much cheaper much fairer, If you own two cars, you don't have to pay exorbatant rates when you can only drive one car at a time. No more getting hit by an uninsured driver and you end up paying out of pocket. The more miles you drive the more you pay, but if you only use your car to go to the store once a week, you don't pay as if you are commuting daily.

Americans are suckers. We want corporations to fleece us because we are too ignorant to set up soem simple socialized systems to deal with our needs.

[Neshanic]

32. It is so sad that Obama gang can't understand this basic concept.

[Glenda]

36. You know what made me decide in favor of Hillary?

When I saw the Michael Moore film about health care, and there was a short piece showing when Hillary was working on healthcare... and all the republicans, etc were against her

I LOVED her back then! It brought back all my fond memories!

SHe's still the same person now, but much more savvy on the ins and outs of politics. So I think she can get something accomplished on this front.

[Hieronymus]

41. We can thank Edwards for much of Hillary's plan .. his was better.

[Cleita]

46. Yes, and his plan was workable and wouldn't have placed

hardships like wage garnishments to collect premiums for the wasteful, for profit private insurers. She stopped short of making it workable because she owes the same industry for her campaign contributions. She is their asset, bought and paid for.

[boston bean]

49. I believe people who do not enroll voluntarily will be enrolled in the gov't program. nt

[milkyway]

52. What happens under Hillary's plan to people who do not enroll in a plan? What's the penalty and how

is it enforced?

[boston bean]

54. if people can afford it they pay. If not they get subsidies.

There is no why reason people who can afford healthcare don't have to be manadated to have it.

It makes our costs go up, when they get sick and can't pay.

[milkyway]

55. That doesn't answer my question. There will be people who can afford healthcare who still

won't want it, particularly young people who would rather not spend a lot of money on something they are unlikely to need. How is mandatory healthcare enforced, and what is the penalty for those that don't get it?

And it seems to me that these low-risk young people are funding other people, kind of like Social Security where the young are funding the old. Am I wrong (I only have a general knowledge of the issue)? It doesn't seem like a lot of people are aware of this.

And if these questions are too difficult for Hillary now, wait until the repugs get hold of it--they'll be saying Hillary will jail everybody who doesn't want "Hillarycare."

[boston bean]

60. Everyone will have to be enrolled. If they can afford it they pay for it all by themselves.

If they can't afford it their are subsidies.

What is so difficult to understand about this.

Why should hospitals and me and you be responsible for people who get sick and have no insurance?

[milkyway]

63. How is it enforced? What happens when someone doesn't pay the premium?

[Alexander]

59. Wrong. Hillary just said she'll garnish wages if people can't afford it.

No thank you.

[Alexander]

57. To hell with her plan. I don't want my wages garnished because I can't afford insurance.

Hillary needs to keep her hands off my paycheck. Obama will.

[BootinUp]

62. Obama's plan has mandates. Also any penalties are applied based on ability to pay.

There will be no penalties if someone cannot afford it.

[IndianaGreen]

61. Sure! If you are part of the health care industry and the investor class, Hillary is the best.

If you are a member of the working class, you are going to get fucked by the Clintons for another 4 years!

Clintons = BOHICA