Obama might fine people who refuse to buy health insurance

[Onlooker]

Fine are worse than garnishing in that they are on top of the monies owed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp

"Obama has said he would require parents to buy health insurance for children, and possibly fine them if they refused, but he would not insist that all adults buy insurance."

[sandnsea]

1. We already have SCHIP

Which is already working well. It's easily expandable and children are cheap to cover. That's why it isn't the same as garnishing wages for hundreds of dollars a month.

[Fed_Up_Grammy]

2. That's what they're doing in Massachusetts.

[NightWatcher]

3. read the plan first

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf

Q. How will the mandate that children be covered affect me?
A. When children are born, their parents will be assisted in signing them up for
affordable, high quality coverage, either through their own employer-sponsored insurance
plans, through Medicaid or SCHIP, or through options established by the Obama plan.
We will continue to make sure that children are covered, which may include verification
when parents sign them up for daycare or school. Obama’s plan will help parents make
sure their children get the care they need, at the time they need it.

[MediaBabe]

11. Obama wants fines and dumps enforcement onto schools

“I would sign them up in school in the same way they would get inoculated. I would fine parents if form some reason they refused. I am happy to be very clear on how we would enforce the mandate,” Obama said. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/11/28/48504...

[bluerum]

4. Why not? Romney did it. Your insurance company sends a form that

you file with your tax return to prove that you are insured.

If you don't send a form, you get nailed with higher taxes.

[ErnestoG]

5. Obama might force us to eat stale vegetables in a tin shack!

LOOK OUT EVERYONE! RUN!!!

[BootinUp]

9. you really think you are helping his cause

don't you?

[liberal N proud]

6. Do these candidates not understand why people don't have insurance?

My God! What is it about can't afford it don't they understand?

Hillary want to "mandate" health insurance and Barack wants to fine people if they don't buy insurance? How does that help anyone but the insurance CORPORATIONS?

[lvx35]

13. They both offer subsidies for the poor.

The question is how they intend to fund them. With Hillary, I'm clearer about that because mandating health care for the healthy will put some extra money into the system.

[cooolandrew]

7. He's only making kids insurance madatory it will only be hard hearted that won't gofor that at low..

...cost.

[Crazy Dave]

8. People in Massachusetts are already suffering....

....under more or less the same hideous republican plan. Fines are currently a few hundred dollars a year but due to increase in the next few years where the fines will cost you the equivalent of a health insurance plan.

[Cleita]

12. Yes, this is blaming the victims for their hardship and fining them. n/t

[Cleita]

10. Doesn't these mandatory proclamations sound more and

more fascist from both candidates? If that's the case, we are probably better off with the status quo so we can at least boycott the insurance companies and HMOs.

[Crazy Dave]

16. I think the boycott was coming

Since most American families can't afford $1000 plus a month in premiums, co-pays, deductibles and prescriptions. That's why the mad rush to make laws that will force them to have insurance.

Imagine losing your job with costs like that and being further victimized with a fine.

[jasmine621]

14. Uh, anyone here realize how Social Security and Medicare are paid for?

Do you mail them a check every pay day. If you refuse to contribute, what happens? I know, but do you?

[Cleita]

18. Theres a difference. Only a percentage is taken from your

income for SS bu you are allowed full participation in the plans when the time comes for you to retire. What they are proposing is that the rich guy and the poor guy pay the same premium like you do now. If you can't afford it then you will have to pay anyway, not just a percentage. It's very bad.

[Maribelle]

20. Hillary was clear that people will only pay what they can afford.

And there will be subsidies and tax credits according to income.

[Cleita]

21. The minute there is means testing, that's the minute you

have to qualify for these subsidies and tax credits. They squeeze people out this way. With SS you pay into it by the formula they have and when you turn sixty five you collect. No one tries to find out how much money you do or don't have or if you can afford to live without it. (Usually, you can't because most old people can't come up with matching income privately.) There is no means testing which is very humiliating incidently. Just ask anyone who has ever had to apply for food stamps. This is a very bad way of doing things.

[Maribelle]

22. Means testing for Pell grants is not humiliating. Applying for a mortgage is not humiliating.

Neither should it be humiliating for food stamps. Something is wrong with the system if it is.

[Cleita]

23. It is. Ask anyone who has had to get welfare or get food stamps

or apply for Medicaid and I am told that many of the questions they ask are humiliating, like how much money they have in their pocket and what they spend on beer or cigarettes. Maybe some people don't consider that humiliating but people who are poor and maybe haven't had a decent meal in a couple of days do. Also, the means are outdated. Like people are expected to live on $623 a month. If they earn extra, their benefits are docked. I mean $623 was enough in 1980 but not today. How long before those means become outdated too for health care? In the meantime the candidates are not really addressing how they will make the insurance companies cap their premiums if they intend even to do so.

[annie1]

25. apparently not.

[Thrill]

15. People would rather be fined than their wages garnished

[rucky]

17. Obama may fine, Hillary plans to garnish

WHAT'S THE BIG FUCKING DEAL AS LONG AS WE GET AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE?

If there is an option, I won't need a mandate, I'm kissing my 600/month shitty buy-in group plan goodbye, telling my employer to fuck off, because I don't need their crappy corporate plan and I'd rather work for a small business anyways.

Mandate me, garnish me, give me the option - I'll take it. It's better than the options that me or most other people have now. Neither plan is ideal, but neither plan sucks, either. Both plans will cost money - one way or another. If you can't afford the money, there's a sliding scale for both plans. If you don't buy into Obama's plan, you don't get covered. I don't know too many people who would do this, since you can be on your family plan until 25 anyways. The ones who don't, or wait to get sick until they get covered will not break the system - especially if there are fines.

[Maribelle]

19. If the goverment fines you they can garnish and withdraw from your checking or savings accounts

or send you to jail

[annie1]

24. and how to do you plan to afford it when not everyone pays in? people opt out when they want to save

then you pay when they get sick.

[rucky]

26. no, they pay when they get sick

hence the fines.

[annie1]

27. won't be enough to pick up the cost. what's he going to fine people...

who at that point don't have it? put them into collections when they're sick?

[rucky]

29. Knowing that possiblity is incentive to buy-in.

I'd like to think that people will make responsible choices, and if they don't, there are consequences. If the illusion of choice is what it takes to sell the plan, then that's fine with me. I'm no fool, I'm buying in or garnishing in either way.

What's she going to garnish? What's he going to fine? People will see positives and negatives to each plan.

We could go back and forth like this all day. Until we get a plan into action and see some solid numbers, we won't know for sure. So which one is most actionable? Hillary's or Obama's? Answer: The one who becomes president will have the most actionable plan.

[OzarkDem]

28. Obama's plan is a joke

It would completely collapse in less than a year because of the high cost of subsidies to insurance companies and the lack of a cap on premiums.