There is no fucking way that Clinton is going to steal money from my hardearned

[JFKgirl]

paycheck to fund the insurance companies that are funding her now.

She has basically no small donors, only fed lobbyists and PAC money. WHAT IF I LOSE MY JOB? WILL I HAVE TO PAY A FEE BECAUSE I CANT PAY FOR HEALTHCARE?

She can mandate my fucking finger.


Mandates does not equal universal healthcare


WHY CANT HRC SUPPORTERS READ THE CONSTITUTION. THIS ACT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

[JFKgirl]

1. Mandate this Hillary

[neutron]

52. Obama Accepted Nuclear Money then Weakened Safety Bill

NYT:

He has boasted of it on the campaign trail, telling a crowd in Iowa in December that it was “the only nuclear legislation that I’ve passed.”
A close look at the path his legislation took tells a very different story. While he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it, Mr. Obama eventually rewrote it to reflect changes sought by Senate Republicans, Exelon and nuclear regulators. The new bill removed language mandating prompt reporting and simply offered guidance to regulators, whom it charged with addressing the issue of unreported leaks.


“Senator Obama’s staff was sending us copies of the bill to review, and we could see it weakening with each successive draft,” said Joe Cosgrove, a park district director in Will County, Ill., where low-level radioactive runoff had turned up in groundwater. “The teeth were just taken out of it.” <snip>


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon.html?em&ex=1202101200&en=f2853a7f59384438&ei=5087%0A

[kikiek]

58. I suspect you're not for Obama or Hillary. RIght back atcha baby.

[jlake]

62. I suspect that too.

[demo dutch]

93. Better yet, ABOLISH SOC. SEC.!!! Hell it comes out of my paycheck!!

Do you think countries with Universal healthcare pay for it?? Are you really that stupid????

[demo dutch]

90. Ignorance of the collective unconscious! In every country with Universal healthcare

one pays either thru tax or premium. In Switzerland and the Netherlands it comes our of your paycheck like Soc.Sec/Medicare. And guess what It works, the Netherlands has the healthiest population on the planet according to the WHO. How do you think they pay for your it you idiot!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

112. Such a short career.

You will won't be missed. Good riddance, and thank you Mods!

[polpilot]

119. New career: Obama/JFK girl '08....NDP

NDP/New Democratic Party

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. OI VEI. I'm an Edwards supporter, but if this has got to get the award for the most pointless post

today.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

3. LOL.

There are some very competitive runners up though..

:rofl:

[JFKgirl]

4. Well

what if i lose my job?
what if my debt is already too high? YOU CANT JUST BASE IT ON INCOME.

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO SEPARATE OUR JOBS AND THE INSURANCE COMPANY. SHE IS TANGLING US FURTHER INTO SHIT AWAY FROM SINGLE PAYER. MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE TO GET single PAYER LATER.

Fuck mandates. UNFUCKINGCONSTITUTIONAL.

[MonkeyFunk]

5. oh, caps and swearwords!

You must mean business!

[desi]

36. Spammers Gone Wild on DU

:spank: poor mods. As if the regulars wars was not time consuming enough.

[MonkeyFunk]

55. No kidding

they're having a tough weekend, no doubt.

The last two days have been just astounding.

[PeaceNikki]

56. JFKgirl is my new "buddy"

ugdude was, too. But, alas, he's no longer with us.

[MonkeyFunk]

59. Hehe

mine too!

I missed ugdude entirely.

[flyarm]

66. oh you missed a doozie...lol...eom

[flyarm]

63. they tend to morph ..have you noticed that..i sure hate paid spammers..

and especially whe n candidates pay them to come here and post this bullshit..

it truely makes me go to other candidates!!

fly

[mondo joe]

8. "UNFUCKINGCONSTITUTIONAL"? Where'd you get that?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

16. OI VEI. You must've been feeling so cozy safe with Bush in the White House 8 F years....

... and now Hillary threatens your everything! ROFL! Oh my!

[flyarm]

44. have you ever heard of social security? JFK girl get back to school!

your ignorance and immaturity is screaming from your posts!!

fly

[demo dutch]

94. Better yet, ABOLISH SOC. SEC.!!! Hell it comes out of my paycheck!!

Do you think countries with Universal healthcare pay for it?? Are you really that stupid???? or are you just on the wrong forum?

[racaulk]

116. EVERYBODY RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

7. This spammer posted all 60 posts today to get to this point...

there will be, unfortunately, much more of this inane bullshit.

[rodeodance]

21. really? serious

[HCE SuiGeneris]

23. Yes, very serious. Check out the advanced search function...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=search_advanced&select_forum=389&search_archives=yes

You will find 1 of the same posts repeated over 20 times here in GD -Primaries

[rodeodance]

26. thanks, I will do as I have not used that feature yet.

[HughMoran]

10. Thank you

Saved me from having to sound repetitive.

[Kutjara]

12. This is why our healthcare system is the shambles it is.

Everyone wants a fair, just, and inclusive system, but they want it for free. Universal healthcare should just magically appear, staffed by elves and fairies who require no reward but the satisfaction of a job well done. Of course, every American will have the right to be included in the system, but nobody should have their precious freedom to refuse to pay taken away. Yet they'll still expect to be treated when they get sick.

You start to see who the real progressives are when the ugly question of funding a genuinely equable social program is raised. If you listen carefully, you can hear the sound of wallets slamming shut all across America.

[Yuugal]

22. You just don't get it

We are all for funding a not for profit system, we just don't want wages being taken that goes straight to big pharma and ins co CEO's.

[creeksneakers2]

29. Please read this

Because we keep posting the same thing over and over.

You do not have to buy into a for profit health care plan. You'd have the option of a government plan.

[Yuugal]

57. Heres the problem

Unless it has zero co-pay and zero-deductible and zero cost for prescriptions, the working poor won't be able to use the system anyway. When you are struggling there just isn't any extra cash lying around for that stuff. Especially for preventive stuff like mammograms or prostate exams or diabetes screening. So they are just going to take more of poor people's money out of their paychecks for something they can't use.

If Hillary wasn't so in debt to corporate lobbyists us poor people might believe she intends to help us. I fell for that DLC crap with nafta, slavefare, and many corporate welfare programs and I'm never falling for it again. Corporate donations are nothing more than bribes and these people didn't give her hundreds of millions of bux because they want good govt. They expect payback.

We keep hearing what a great experienced politician she is but instead of just saying "health care should be a right for all Americans and it will come out of the general fund", she starts talking about punishing people and how she can "get at their wages".

[MonkeyFunk]

87. So you expect

free housing, free food, free heat, free transportation, too?

[Yuugal]

97. Where did I say free?

When I got disabled in a job accident my company certainly didn't care whether I lived or died. I was a broken cog in their machine and was worthless to them and needed to be replaced.

Every single person in America should be provided the basics of life if they can't get them for themselves any longer. If I could have the tax money I paid during my prime earning years back, I wouldn't need anyone's help. The scam we are handed in this country is that you pay in so that we can have a safety net for everyone. That net has been almost totally destroyed. Now we just get to fund wars and corporate welfare.

You will never understand unless you get to walk in my shoes, but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. The hatred for the poor and disabled here on DU is amazing for a site that calls itself progressive. My belief is that no one should be able to employ anyone in this country if they can't provide them with a living wage and adequate protection for their ability to survive should they become hurt on the job site.

These days, the dem party is so full of people who have never actually done any work(trust funders, rich people, white collars, and general pencil pushers), that the party no longer seems to understand what it is to WORK for a living.

[creeksneakers2]

102. It doesn't have to go to big pharma or CEOs though

[Kutjara]

34. Sorry, but I'm cynical about this.

People claim to be "all for funding a not for profit system," but such a thing is so far away from being reality, it would probably take a civil war to get there. Nobody's really going to have to reach into their pockets to pay for nonprofit healthcare anytime soon, so it's pretty safe to hoist the red flag and militantly support it.

But when some candidate does come up with a healthcare plan, however flawed, that tries to improve the situation (given the overwhelming reality that Big Pharma is not going away), the screaming about "thieves" and "pickpockets" begins.

Even in countries that have had "socialized" medicine for 50 years, there is still a vocal minority, perennially complaining about "freedom of choice" and "nanny states" and "government pickpockets."

The problem is orders of magnitude harder here, in the Home of Greed, where anyone who believes in social welfare and collective provision of necessary services is about two rungs below "pedophile" on the list of desirable role models.

[flyarm]

47. hey shit for....it already is taken out for that!!...get a pay check and come back here

and then twll us how little you know!!

but don't give us the bullshit when you are totally clueless!!

i don't remeber when $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ weren't taken out of my paycheck for health insurance..it's been that long!!

oh and it even comes out of my retirement check..hellllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

fly

[Yuugal]

60. I know you hate the poor and disabled

and I know my condition makes you feel like its ok to denigrate my intelligence too. There is alot of that on DU. "Get a paycheck and come back here" huh? I'd give your info about my life but you're too hateful and lost to waste time on.

It will have to suffice for me to just say that they take out of my disability check for healthcare too, healthcare I can't afford to use because of the deductions and co-pays. Forcing the working poor to pay for something they can't use either isn't going to help them. Go back to your latte and keep counting all the poor and working class votes you think your candidate is going to get.

Fuck this party.

[flyarm]

71. excuse me i do not hate the poor and disabled. What i hate is propaganda and pure ignorance posting

on a message board unadulterated lies!..at the expense of the Poor and disabled.

you don't know me..and your games don't work with me.

fly

[creeksneakers2]

28. I hate to say it but

The ones who want the government to provide them with the most are also, as a group, least likely to be willing to sacrifice a thing themselves. Many of them won't even bother to vote to get everybody health care if it costs them a dime, but expect everybody else to pay through the nose for them.

[flyarm]

45. it is obvious these little idiots don't work and never have..they have no clue

health care is already taken out of our paychecks..even my retirement check!!

please someone teach these kids something in school..or mommy and daddy show them your pay stub..they are too ignorant to tell us who to elect..

fly

[DesertFlower]

15. i spell it this way. Oy Vey.

:)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

18. LOL! :-) nt

[rodeodance]

25. Obamacampers not comprehening much today.

[flyarm]

84. i didn't know they could..when they get their brains beat in they start a new post!!

and repeat over and over again...

fly

[Proud2BAmurkin]

6. The rest of us shouldn't have to pay for your ER care

[Benhurst]

9. Single payer universal health care NOW!

Neither Clinton nor Obama gets it.

Pathetic.

Maybe someday we'll be able to drag the United States into the Twentieth Century. Then we can get to work trying to bring it into the Twenty-first.

[JFKgirl]

14. clintons is farther away from single payer

she is tying jobs with insurance companies. FUCKING DISGUSTING.

[Benhurst]

19. Neither are close enough.

As the late, great Bette Davis once said: "What a DUMP!"

[Garbo 2004]

46. Actually, it mimics the Edwards plan, opening the door to single payer with a gov't plan. n/t

[avaistheone1]

120. That's right. Clinton's plan is closer to single-payer.

She copied elements of Edwards' plan.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

20. Hold on while I pull my magic wand out of my pocket, and make it happen overnight... SWOOSH! Voila!

INSTANTLY! There. Howdya like that? Can anything happen faster?

[Benhurst]

115. It will only work if first you sit down at the table with the Republicans in

Congress, join hands, and sing three choruses of Kumbyyah.

[Garbo 2004]

48. They get it like Edwards gets it, but what they can get passed by Congress, which any plan has to go

through if it's to be enacted, is another matter.

[conservdem]

73. Who is the "single payer" you are referring to?

[DesertFlower]

11. i agree. i have health care from

hubby's employer, but my sister does not. she has been paying $300 a month for a policy with a $10,000 deductible. they just raised it to $320 a month. she has decided to drop it and "take her chances". basically she spends about $200 a year on health care.

apparently massachusetts has hillary's plan and some people are pissed off.

[flyarm]

69. for those that take their chances..we pay for them when their chances fall short...

yes we all do..so one damn way or the other we pay for them!!

fly

[HCE SuiGeneris]

13. YOU SUCK!

Yes, I WAS yelling, because I think you are daft.

[BenDavid]

17. okay, you do not state you have health insurance and if you do

congrats but if not the next time you know of someone that doesn't and goes to the doctor and they have to have some surgery or a member of their family, just who is going to pay that bill? Are you going too? That is the problem we all face that folks do not have insurance go into the emergency room and then because of some illness are admitted and then whatever procedure and hospital stay costs, we the public usually end up holding the bag, and our premiums go up and the hospitals lose and at the end have to write off millions and millions of dollars in lost revenue.....that is not right....

so in a way me, you and all others are indirectly garnished because our rates go higher....

[flyarm]

24. would you Obama kids please stop with this propaganda and bullshit..

you are only hurting your candidate!!

this is bullshit,..unadulterated bullshit!!


how many times must you post this bullshit?

and how many times must we make fools of you ?

fly

[Bluerthanblue]

27. you do realize that private corporations are profiting off this war- in

record ammounts.

And we don't have any say in that.

peace~

[tandot]

30. I am so sorry that the bad, mean Hillary took your toy away...

[Texas_Kat]

31. By your criteria, so is Social Security

[Midlodemocrat]

32. Go away.

[desi]

33. roflmao

Hey "girl," you sound just like "ugdude" ....hmmmm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4364293

[LoveleeRita]

35. but you'd give your $$ to big insurance companies???

[flyarm]

37. these obama ipod kids have no clue what they are talking about,..

they just continue to make fools of themselves and their candidate!

they sure are not making it attractive to join his campaign..they have actually made me run the other way..


and i am running real hard the opposite direction...and i didn't even like Hillary one bit!!

and they will surely send many over to McCain!! who have finally come over to our side..i wonder if that is the Obama plan?

fly

[mondo joe]

64. Why must my poor iPod be so tainted?

It never hurt anyone. It helps me run around the lake. It brings me music.

My iPod and I both think universal health care is important.

So does my iPhone!

[ErnestoG]

38. Pfeh, what matters the constitution to the Hillary campaign?

It's just an impediment to her entitlement!

Go Hillary!

[flyarm]

54. please as i asked you in the 1000 other posts..go play with your ipod..you have no idea

what you are talking about..back to school with you..do you learn anything in school??? do you???..try reading the constitution before you spew your nonsense..that might be good for starters!!

fly

[ErnestoG]

110. thank you for the non-answer. You Hillarites NEVER disappoint!

[flyarm]

111. sorry to dissapoint you..i supported and support John Edwards and voted for John Edwards

and volunteered on the road for John Edwards before the DLC booted him for obama and hillary..

fly

[dorktv]

39. How is it unconstitutional?

[Garbo 2004]

40. Um, did you forget there is a Congress? That legislation has to pass before it can be enacted?

Sounds like you haven't read the Constitution.

And if you lose your job your options are no coverage or gov't subsidized health care. You've got a problem with plans that would provide the latter?

[boston bean]

41. She is NOT going to do send your money to a private ins. co.

She will however mandate that you chose a pvt. ins. co and pay through your employer, or you will be signed up for the gov't program.

[Dogmudgeon]

42. Chill, Emily

You sound like a drunk Libertarian.

You pay taxes, don't you?

How do you think Obama will pay for HIS insurance proposal? By asking us to HOPE for it?

I've been sick most of my adult life, was uninsurable as early as 1985, and nearly all my discretionary income between 1977 and 2003 went to pay doctors. Today I'm broke and crippled, and it's because I couldn't afford treatment for most of that time. When you're sick for a month or more at a time, you tend to get "let go". (And do you know what a week in the hospital costs if you have no insurance? And then there's how much neurosurgeons charge!)

There are millions of people in my position. We can't live on Hope, Promises, the Future, Change we can Believe in, Belief, or Audacity.

By the way, Hillary has lots of small donors; I know several. (I still have about $100 in the bank, and I may send her $20 of it.) And Obama has taken millions in industry money. So deal with it, sweetheart. And no more lying. As Michelle O. says, we have a deficit of empathy -- you go first.

But I personally don't need empathy. I need medical treatment. I am looking forward to becoming healthy again. And I don't care how it gets done.

--p!

[BlackVelvet04]

43. You are a LIAR......

Strengthening Security: The plan ensures that job loss or family illnesses will never lead to a loss of coverage or exorbitant costs.

[flyarm]

78. these obama ipod kids are nothing but liars and propagandists..

what color ipod did this one get ..can you guess?

fly

[monarch]

49. How much spam can one person post in a day? n/t

[desi]

53. It depends

on how many sockpuppets are delivered pizza.

[flyarm]

50. i know this might be hard for you Obama ipod kids to grasp..but $2,000.00 is taken from my hubby's

check each month right now..each and every month..for health insurance..his employer pays 2/3rds and we pay 1/3..if we renegged and didn't allow that money to come out..we would have no health insurance..period.

i know for those of you kids in school and that have never earned a living and have never paid a damn dime for your upkeep can come here and post your bullshit and propaganda over and over and over again..but you are seriously pissing alot of us off..and you are doing your candidate no favors..in fact you are making me damn mad,that he and his campaign put you up to posting these bullshit talking points..that are utter nonsense.

fly

[Darth_Kitten]

51. Well, maybe then Obama's get well wishes will be all you need?

:eyes:

[flyarm]

61. Our friend Andy Stephenson's employer never paid his heatlh insurance like she said she was..

and ya know what darlin..when he needed surgery for pancreatic cancer..he found out he had no insurance.....we did a fund raiser here to get him the $50,000. bucks he needed just to get in the hospital door...

now tell us all about the Obama plan again??????????

save your bullshit from here darlin..we get it..and we know all about your bullshit and Obama's bullshit plan!!

fly

[in_cog_ni_to]

72. Thank you, fly. *sigh* It makes me so sad to think about Andy.

:cry:

[flyarm]

77. me too but this bullshit being propagandized here today by Obama's paid Ipod kids

really pisses me off..so much so..and i have thought of Andy all day while trying to stop their bullshit.

Andy and Edwards health care plan is one of the top reasons i volunteered For Edwards and went to Iowa and froze my ass off.. and South Carolina..


damn why do people vote against themselves?
fly:cry: :cry: :hi:

[in_cog_ni_to]

65. Why don't YOU read her plan:

Hillary Clinton unveiled the third part of her plan to ensure that all Americans have affordable, quality health insurance. Building on her proposals to rein in costs and to insist on value and quality, her American Health Choices Plan will secure, simplify and ensure choice in health coverage for all Americans. This Plan covers every American - finally addressing the needs of the 47 million uninsured and the tens of millions of workers with coverage who fear they could be one pink slip away from losing their health coverage - with no overall increase in health spending or taxes. For those with health insurance, the plan builds on the current system to give businesses and their employees greater choice of health plans - including keeping the one they have - while lowering cost and improving quality. Specifically, the American Health Choices Plan will:

The American Health Choices Plan gives Americans the choice to preserve their existing coverage, while offering new choices to those with insurance, to the 47 million people in the United States without insurance, and the tens of millions more at risk of losing coverage.


* The Same Choice of Health Plan Options that Members of Congress Receive: Americans can keep their existing coverage or access the same menu of quality private insurance options that their Members of Congress receive through a new Health Choices Menu, established without any new bureaucracy as part of the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program (FEHBP). In addition to the broad array of private options that Americans can choose from, they will be offered the choice of a public plan option similar to Medicare.

* A Guarantee of Quality Coverage: The new array of choices offered in the Menu will provide benefits at least as good as the typical plan offered to Members of Congress, which includes mental health parity and usually dental coverage.

Americans who are satisfied with the coverage they have today can keep it, while benefiting from lower premiums and higher quality.


* Reducing Costs: By removing hidden taxes, stressing prevention and a focus on efficiency and modernization, the plan will improve quality and lower costs.

* Strengthening Security: The plan ensures that job loss or family illnesses will never lead to a loss of coverage or exorbitant costs.

* End to Unfair Health Insurance Discrimination: By creating a level-playing field of insurance rules across states and markets, the plan ensures that no American is denied coverage, refused renewal, unfairly priced out of the market, or forced to pay excessive insurance company premiums.

Relying on consumers or the government alone to fix the system has unintended consequences, like scaled-back coverage or limited choices. This plan ensures that all who benefit from the system share in the responsibility to fix its shortcomings.


* Insurance and Drug Companies: insurance companies will end discrimination based on pre-existing conditions or expectations of illness and ensure high value for every premium dollar; while drug companies will offer fair prices and accurate information.

* Individuals: will be required to get and keep insurance in a system where insurance is affordable and accessible.

* Providers: will work collaboratively with patients and businesses to deliver high-quality, affordable care.

* Employers: will help financing the system; large employers will be expected to provide health insurance or contribute to the cost of coverage: small businesses will receive a tax credit to continue or begin to offer coverage.

* Government: will ensure that health insurance is always affordable and never a crushing burden on any family and will implement reforms to improve quality and lower cost.

Senator Clinton’s plan will:


* Provide Tax Relief to Ensure Affordability: Working families will receive a refundable tax credit to help them afford high-quality health coverage.

* Limit Premium Payments to a Percentage of Income: The refundable tax credit will be designed to prevent premiums from exceeding a percentage of family income, while maintaining consumer price consciousness in choosing health plans.

* Create a New Small Business Tax Credit: To make it easier-not harder-for small businesses to create new jobs with health coverage, a new health care tax credit for small businesses will provide an incentive for job-based coverage.

* Strengthen Medicaid and CHIP: The Plan will fix the holes in the safety net to ensure that the most vulnerable populations receive affordable, quality care.

* Launch a Retiree Health Legacy Initiative: A new tax credit for qualifying private and public retiree health plans will offset a significant portion of catastrophic expenditures, so long as savings are dedicated to workers and competitiveness.



* Most Savings Come Through Lowering Spending Due to Quality and Modernization: Over half the savings come from the public savings generated from Senator Clinton’s broader agenda to modernize the heath systems and reduce wasteful health spending.

* A Net Tax Cut for American Taxpayers: The plan offers tens of millions of Americans a new tax credit to make premiums affordable-which more than offsets the increased revenues from the Plan’s provisions to limit the employer tax exclusion for health care and discontinue portions of the Bush tax cuts for those making over $250,000. Thus, the plan provides a net tax cut for American taxpayers.

* Making the Employer Tax Exclusion for Health Care Fairer: The plan protects the current exclusion from taxes of employer-provided health premiums, but limits the exclusion for the high-end portion of very generous plans for those making over $250,000.

[JFKgirl]

68. Sorry, Obamas plan is infinitely better

Next, Hillary is going to mandate that we all buy cadilacs

Even if we dont need them OR cant afford them.

MANDATES ARE MURDER FOR THE POOR. They are also unconstitutional. Get the governments hand out of my hard-earned money.


Barack Obama's Plan
Quality, Affordable and Portable Coverage for All
Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress. The Obama plan will have the following features:
Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.
Comprehensive benefits. The benefit package will be similar to that offered through Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), the plan members of Congress have. The plan will cover all essential medical services, including preventive, maternity and mental health care.
Affordable premiums, co-pays and deductibles.
Subsidies. Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.
Simplified paperwork and reined in health costs.
Easy enrollment. The new public plan will be simple to enroll in and provide ready access to coverage.
Portability and choice. Participants in the new public plan and the National Health Insurance Exchange (see below) will be able to move from job to job without changing or jeopardizing their health care coverage.
Quality and efficiency. Participating insurance companies in the new public program will be required to report data to ensure that standards for quality, health information technology and administration are being met.
National Health Insurance Exchange: The Obama plan will create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals who wish to purchase a private insurance plan. The Exchange will act as a watchdog group and help reform the private insurance market by creating rules and standards for participating insurance plans to ensure fairness and to make individual coverage more affordable and accessible. Insurers would have to issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums that will not depend upon health status. The Exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and have the same standards for quality and efficiency. The Exchange would evaluate plans and make the differences among the plans, including cost of services, public.
Employer Contribution: Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt.
Mandatory Coverage of Children: Obama will require that all children have health care coverage. Obama will expand the number of options for young adults to get coverage, including allowing young people up to age 25 to continue coverage through their parents' plans.
Expansion Of Medicaid and SCHIP: Obama will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs and ensure that these programs continue to serve their critical safety net function.
Flexibility for State Plans: Due to federal inaction, some states have taken the lead in health care reform. The Obama plan builds on these efforts and does not replace what states are doing. States can continue to experiment, provided they meet the minimum standards of the national plan.
Lower Costs by Modernizing The U.S. Health Care System
Reducing Costs of Catastrophic Illnesses for Employers and Their Employees: Catastrophic health expenditures account for a high percentage of medical expenses for private insurers. The Obama plan would reimburse employer health plans for a portion of the catastrophic costs they incur above a threshold if they guarantee such savings are used to reduce the cost of workers' premiums.
Helping Patients:
Support disease management programs. Seventy five percent of total health care dollars are spent on patients with one or more chronic conditions, such as diabetes, heart disease and high blood pressure. Obama will require that providers that participate in the new public plan, Medicare or the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) utilize proven disease management programs. This will improve quality of care, give doctors better information and lower costs.
Coordinate and integrate care. Over 133 million Americans have at least one chronic disease and these chronic conditions cost a staggering $1.7 trillion yearly. Obama will support implementation of programs and encourage team care that will improve coordination and integration of care of those with chronic conditions.
Require full transparency about quality and costs. Obama will require hospitals and providers to collect and publicly report measures of health care costs and quality, including data on preventable medical errors, nurse staffing ratios, hospital-acquired infections, and disparities in care. Health plans will also be required to disclose the percentage of premiums that go to patient care as opposed to administrative costs.
Ensuring Providers Deliver Quality Care:
Promote patient safety. Obama will require providers to report preventable medical errors and support hospital and physician practice improvement to prevent future occurrences.
Align incentives for excellence. Both public and private insurers tend to pay providers based on the volume of services provided, rather than the quality or effectiveness of care. Providers who see patients enrolled in the new public plan, the National Health Insurance Exchange, Medicare and FEHBP will be rewarded for achieving performance thresholds on outcome measures.
Comparative effectiveness research. Obama will establish an independent institute to guide reviews and research on comparative effectiveness, so that Americans and their doctors will have the accurate and objective information they need to make the best decisions for their health and well-being.
Tackle disparities in health care. Obama will tackle the root causes of health disparities by addressing differences in access to health coverage and promoting prevention and public health, both of which play a major role in addressing disparities. He will also challenge the medical system to eliminate inequities in health care through quality measurement and reporting, implementation of effective interventions such as patient navigation programs, and diversification of the health workforce.
Insurance reform. Obama will strengthen antitrust laws to prevent insurers from overcharging physicians for their malpractice insurance and will promote new models for addressing errors that improve patient safety, strengthen the doctor-patient relationship and reduce the need for malpractice suits.
Lowering Costs Through Investment in Electronic Health Information Technology Systems: Most medical records are still stored on paper, which makes it hard to coordinate care, measure quality or reduce medical errors and which costs twice as much as electronic claims. Obama will invest $10 billion a year over the next five years to move the U.S. health care system to broad adoption of standards-based electronic health information systems, including electronic health records, and will phase in requirements for full implementation of health IT. Obama will ensure that patients' privacy is protected.
Lowering Costs by Increasing Competition in the Insurance and Drug Markets: The insurance business today is dominated by a small group of large companies that has been gobbling up their rivals. There have been over 400 health care mergers in the last 10 years, and just two companies dominate a full third of the national market. These changes were supposed to make the industry more efficient, but instead premiums have skyrocketed by over 87 percent.
Barack Obama will prevent companies from abusing their monopoly power through unjustified price increases. His plan will force insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care instead of keeping exorbitant amounts for profits and administration. His new National Health Exchange will help increase competition by insurers.
Lower prescription drug costs. The second-fastest growing type of health expenses is prescription drugs. Pharmaceutical companies are selling the exact same drugs in Europe and Canada but charging Americans more than double the price. Obama will allow Americans to buy their medicines from other developed countries if the drugs are safe and prices are lower outside the U.S. Obama will also repeal the ban that prevents the government from negotiating with drug companies, which could result in savings as high as $30 billion. Finally, Obama will work to increase the use of generic drugs in Medicare, Medicaid, and FEHBP and prohibit big name drug companies from keeping generics out of markets.
Fight for New Initiatives
Advance the Biomedical Research Field: As a result of biomedical research the prevention, early detection and treatment of diseases such as cancer and heart disease is better today than any other time in history. Barack Obama has consistently supported funding for the national institutes of health and the national science foundation. Obama strongly supports investments in biomedical research, as well as medical education and training in health-related fields, because it provides the foundation for new therapies and diagnostics. Obama has been a champion of research in cancer, mental health, health disparities, global health, women and children's health, and veterans' health. As president, Obama will strengthen funding for biomedical research, and better improve the efficiency of that research by improving coordination both within government and across government/private/non-profit partnerships. An Obama administration will ensure that we translate scientific progress into improved approaches to disease prevention, early detection and therapy that is available for all Americans.
Fight AIDS Worldwide. There are 40 million people across the planet infected with HIV/AIDS. As president, Obama will continue to be a global leader in the fight against AIDS. Obama believes in working across party lines to combat this epidemic and recently joined Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) at a large California evangelical church to promote greater investment in the global AIDS battle.
Support Americans with Disabilities: As a former civil rights lawyer, Barack Obama knows firsthand the importance of strong protections for minority communities in our society. Obama is committed to strengthening and better enforcing the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) so that future generations of Americans with disabilities have equal rights and opportunities. Obama believes we must restore the original legislative intent of the ADA in the wake of court decisions that have restricted the interpretation of this landmark legislation.

Barack Obama is also committed to ensuring that disabled Americans receive Medicaid and Medicare benefits in a low-cost, effective and timely manner. Recognizing that many individuals with disabilities rely on Medicare, Obama worked with Senator Ken Salazar (D-CO) to urge the department of health and human services to provide clear and reliable information on the Medicare prescription drug benefit and to ensure that the Medicare recipients were protected from fraudulent claims by marketers and drug plan agents.
Improve Mental Health Care. Mental illness affects approximately one in five American families. The National Alliance on Mental Illness estimates that untreated mental illnesses cost the U.S. more than $100 billion per year. As president, Obama will support mental health parity so that coverage for serious mental illnesses are provided on the same terms and conditions as other illnesses and diseases.
Protect Our Children from Lead Poisoning. More than 430,000 American children have dangerously high levels of lead in their blood. Lead can cause irreversible brain damage, learning disabilities, behavioral problems, and, at very high levels, seizures, coma and death. As president, Obama will protect children from lead poisoning by requiring that child care facilities be lead-safe within five years.
Reduce Risks of Mercury Pollution. More than five million women of childbearing age have high levels of toxic mercury in their blood, and approximately 630,000 newborns are born at risk every year. Barack Obama has a plan to significantly reduce the amount of mercury that is deposited in oceans, lakes, and rivers, which in turn would reduce the amount of mercury in fish.
Support Americans with Autism. More than one million Americans have autism, a complex neurobiological condition that has a range of impacts on thinking, feeling, language, and the ability to relate to others. As diagnostic criteria broaden and awareness increases, more cases of autism have been recognized across the country. Barack Obama believes that we can do more to help autistic Americans and their families understand and live with autism. He has been a strong supporter of more than $1 billion in federal funding for autism research on the root causes and treatments, and he believes that we should increase funding for the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act to truly ensure that no child is left behind.

More than anything, autism remains a profound mystery with a broad spectrum of effects on autistic individuals, their families, loved ones, the community, and education and health care systems. Obama believes that the government and our communities should work together to provide a helping hand to autistic individuals and their families.

[in_cog_ni_to]

70. She IS NOT mandating that you all buy Cadillacs. how fucking stupid. READ WHAT SHE SAID!

ONLY people who CAN afford health care and won't buy will have their wages garnished. She didn't say she WOULD do that...she was giving examples of things that COULD BE done. If people who CAN afford health insurance and don't buy it, go to the hospital and can't pay that bill, WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK PAYS FOR THAT????!!!! YOU DO! I DO! Wake the hell up and stop being so childish.

[flyarm]

74. no it is not! stop lying.The Edwards Effect .By PAUL KRUGMAN

The Edwards Effect


By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: February 1, 2008

If 2008 is different, it will be largely thanks to Mr. Edwards. He made a habit of introducing bold policy proposals -- and they were met with such enthusiasm among Democrats that his rivals were more or less forced to follow suit.

It's hard, in particular, to overstate the importance of the Edwards health care plan, introduced in February.

Before the Edwards plan was unveiled, advocates of universal health care had difficulty getting traction, in part because they were divided over how to get there. Some advocated a single-payer system -- a k a Medicare for all -- but this was dismissed as politically infeasible. Some advocated reform based on private insurers, but single-payer advocates, aware of the vast inefficiency of the private insurance system, recoiled at the prospect.

With no consensus about how to pursue health reform, and vivid memories of the failure of 1993-1994, Democratic politicians avoided the subject, treating universal care as a vague dream for the distant future.

But the Edwards plan squared the circle, giving people the choice of staying with private insurers, while also giving everyone the option of buying into government-offered, Medicare-type plans -- a form of public-private competition that Mr. Edwards made clear might lead to a single-payer system over time. And he also broke the taboo against calling for tax increases to pay for reform.

Suddenly, universal health care became a possible dream for the next administration. In the months that followed, the rival campaigns moved to assure the party's base that it was a dream they shared, by emulating the Edwards plan. And there's little question that if the next president really does achieve major health reform, it will transform the political landscape.

snip:

Furthermore, to the extent that this remains a campaign of ideas, it remains true that on the key issue of health care, the Clinton plan is more or less identical to the Edwards plan. The Obama plan, which doesn't actually achieve universal coverage, is considerably weaker.


Paul Krugman joined The New York Times in 1999 as a columnist on the Op-Ed Page and continues as professor of Economics and International Affairs at Princeton University.

Mr. Krugman received his B.A. from Yale University in 1974 and his Ph.D. from MIT in 1977. He has taught at Yale, MIT and Stanford. At MIT he became the Ford International Professor of Economics.

[in_cog_ni_to]

81. They've been spewing this shit since I logged on this morning. Since MTP was on!

10:30 A.M. and the LIES just keep coming. They're like COCKROACHES only cockroaches can't type, so they're WORSE! :grr:

Would you happen to have a link to that Krugman article? I'd like to save it if you do.:)

[flyarm]

82. i know nothing but damn lies..and they are all newbies today!!

i saw enough of these kids that got the new Ipods in Iowa and SoCarolina..by the Obama crew..i am fed up..

never felt like this before..but they are pushing me to stay home in Nov..

a disgusted fly..one thing is for sure..they have done a damn good job of making me despise Obama!!

[in_cog_ni_to]

85. I was trying to decide between Obama and Hillary before I came into this forum.

These freaks MADE ME support Hillary.

[Garbo 2004]

80. Mandates in themselves aren't unconstitutional. Or do you have a choice whether or not to have

payroll deductions to pay into Social Security, Medicaid & Medicare? Those are gov't programs which help the poor who have no other resources or choices.

[demo dutch]

95. Better yet, ABOLISH SOC. SEC.!!! Hell it comes out of my paycheck!!

Do you think countries with Universal healthcare pay for it?? Are you really that stupid????

[yardwork]

67. Thank you for your concern. I see you joined DU today just to warn us.

[flyarm]

75. was today your first day working for the Obama campaign..i see this is your first day on DU..

welcome..but please leave the talking points at home!!

fly

PS did you get one of those cute IPODs Obama has handed out to kids to do work for him??
check into it..i have talked to many kids who loved getting it!!

[Blue-Jay]

76. .

[JFKgirl]

79. shouldnt the line drop after youve read the post, not before?

[flyarm]

83. school honey..don't drop out of school!!....if ever anyone needed it..well you know..eom

[in_cog_ni_to]

89. LOL! In some parts...education is overrated

Apparently......:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[demo dutch]

86. Ignorance of the collective unconscious! In every country with Universal healthcare

one pays either thru tax or premium. In Switzerland and the Netherlands it comes our of your paycheck like Soc.Sec/Medicare. And guess what It works, the Netherlands has the healthiest population on the planet according to the WHO.

[rodeodance]

88. I call it the Obama Glitter effect--Toto will pull back the curtain soon.

[Nimrod2005]

91. I feel the same way!

[exchange77]

92. Its a fucking Obama camp lie..its not true !!!!!!!!! How old are you anyway ?

Under 29 i guess...

[apocalypsehow]

96. As a new person at DU I just got

very rude treatment over in General Discussion. So I thought I'd come over to General Discussion Primaries and see if the going was any smoother. After reading this thread, think I'll turn around and head back to General Discussion.

[yardwork]

105. Welcome to DU. I'm sorry you were treated rudely.

General Discussion Primaries (GD-P) is probably the rudest place on DU right now. General Discussion (GD) can also be fierce, but at least discussion about the primaries is not allowed there now. Please visit other forums here before you give up on DU. We're mostly a very nice group. The primaries have us acting a little....odd.

[apocalypsehow]

113. Thank you very much for your warm welcome!

I truly appreciate it.

[yardwork]

121. You're welcome! I recommend Latest Breaking News.

That forum contains only news articles and the posts are generally calm and well-reasoned.

[LittleBlue]

98. They can take my money for healthcare... NOT FOR INSURANCE COMPANIES n/t

[JFKgirl]

99. Exactly. Hillary will take my hardearned money and pay back the

insurance lobbyists that funded her campaign. She doesnt get too many small donations, now does she? She needs those lobbyists.

[LittleBlue]

100. There are a lot on DU out of touch with people like you who want health care and not insurance.

We don't want deductibles, crucial procedure rejection of payments, and HMO's.

[yardwork]

107. This is a ridiculous lie. Obama gets just as much corporate money.

Hillary includes the insurance companies in her plan because they are the 2,000 pound gorillas that we are stuck with for now. There's no way any other plan will make it through Congress. Hillary learned that the last time around, in the 1990s.

Spreading lies about a Democrat is a disgusting thing to do.

[yardwork]

106. Unfortunately, we're stuck with insurance companies right now.

Hillary Clinton tried to get around the insurance companies during the 1990s and her plan was destroyed by a well-funded smear campaign from the insurance companies. This time around she is taking the pragmatic approach. It just might work.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

101. Is mandated auto insurance also unconstitutional?

You should read her plan, she will give subsidies and tax breaks.

[Catherine Vincent]

103. Shouldn't this thread be locked?

The OP is no longer with us.

[PeaceNikki]

104. Yay!! My new use for the "buddy" list is working!!

:bounce:

[yardwork]

108. It's actually become a rather informative thread - not many agreeing with the OP.

[mtnsnake]

109. Yes, but maybe the mods will let it go, just so all can witness this historical display of stupidity

If they lock it too soon, some of the late-night posters might miss it. Record-breaking showings of ignorance like this should not be missed by anyone! lol

[sellitman]

114. Go back to Freeperville.

Social security is a mandate.

A very good one at that.

You sound like one of them.

[racaulk]

117. GET YOUR FUCKING HANDS OUT OF MY WALLET!!!

:rofl:

Later, troll.

[flyarm]

122. get your non insurance paying ass out of my insurance and my lifelong caps!!

its either your wallet or mine..seems you want me to pay for your lazy ass ..or you just think it all comes free...well bubba it doesn't!..someone will be paying for your sorry ass..and i assure you..it won't be me...i am done with the likes of spoiled brats like you!!

[racaulk]

123. .

:rofl:

[Marrah_G]

118. Okay so tell me, how much do you pay for your health insurance?