To those of you pushing Obama/Rezko relationship do you hope it sticks if he is the nominee

[wndycty]

Poll question: To those of you pushing Obama/Rezko relationship do you hope it sticks if he is the nominee

I see a lot of folks pushing the whole Obama/Rezko relationship even though Obama has never ever been accused of any wrong doing. Even the real estate deal never involved any accusations of wrong doing, it was just bad judgment. This has always been about nothing more than guilt by association.

I have a simple question for you. If Obama secures the nomination do you hope that the whole Obama/Rezko relationship continues to hunt Obama? Its not about whether or not the GOP will use it (we know they will), its about whether or not you want to see them use it.

Also, since so many folks are outraged about the whole Obama/Rezko issues please detail for me the wrong doing you believe Obama engaged in. I want more than the fact he received support from a alleged bad person, I want allegations of illegal activity please.

[Kermitt Gribble]

1. I didn't vote in your poll.

It doesn't matter who mentions it now, or how relevant his connection is. The pukes and MSM will make it known to everyone if he's the nominee - facts or fiction.

[wndycty]

2. Judging from the DU it would appear that many on this board want to . . .

. . .to believe the worst in this situation. There is no doubt that the GOP and MSM will not drop it, but its not about them its about the DUers who keep bringing it up. Keep using it to taunt Obama supporters. I have been very careful in Clinton criticisms because I know she could very well be our nominee.

[MoonRiver]

12. If you have been careful, you are a minority of about 3.

And I say that sincerely and literally.

[ClassWarrior]

3. To those who vote "No"... Does that mean...

...this is a matter of deep moral and ethical concern - but only if it'll help to nominate another candidate? And that it'll no longer be a matter of deep moral and ethical concern if Obama's the nominee?

NGU.

[wndycty]

6. Well so far two have answered yes

:kick:

[ClassWarrior]

25. No answers?

:shrug:

NGU.

[harun]

4. If that is the worst dirt they got on him he will win the GE (n/t)

[LandOLincoln]

76. It's not all, though.

I'm afraid there's a lot more. Please educate yourself. Check the archives of the Chicago Sun-Times and the Chicago Tribune.

[harun]

99. If there was more Hillary would have used it (n/t)

[LandOLincoln]

105. Just check out the Chicago papers, and don't be a

so damned juvenile. Instead ask yourself why the MSM is holding their fire on this, and what will happen if/when Obama gets the nomination?

[ClassWarrior]

5. To those who vote "Yes"... Does that mean...

...you'll condemn the Clinton campaign's connections to Rezko if she's the nominee?

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

26. No answers?

:shrug:

NGU.

[wndycty]

28. They don't know what to say

:kick:

[jlake]

7. If he is the nominee, I hope he is exonerated of any nefarious connections or charges.

The Rezko scandal could get VERY VERY VERY Ugly.

[wndycty]

8. Exonerated? From what?

What wrong doing is Obama accused of? What does Obama need to be exonerated from? What exactly did he do wrong? Answer please?

[jlake]

11. He is connected to Rezko. I think Rezko is going to end up in jail for funding terrorists.

I hope that Obama can prove his real estate dealings and other connections to Rezko were on the up and up. - Otherwise Obama may be cast in the same light as Rezko.

[wndycty]

15. You don't even know what Rezko is charged with do you?

Tell me what you think Rezko is accused of and lets see if you even know what you are talking about.

And Obama has not been accused of any crime so how is he supposed to clear his name. The real estate deal happened, Obama does not deny it and acknowledged it was stupid, but tell me what he did wrong or what you believe he did wrong.

[jlake]

17. Yes, I do know what he is charged with. And I know where this is going.

[wndycty]

19. OK then share with us your knowledge of the case. . .

. . .what is Rezko charged with? And what exactly is Obama accused of doing? (I'll give you a few minutes to google).

[wndycty]

30. Still waiting on an answer regarding the Rezko charges

:kick:

[wndycty]

31. Are you ever going to answer post #19

:kick:

[Alexander]

35. No. Shillbots just like to make shit up and hope we believe it.

That's their version of "hope".

[wndycty]

37. True I'm still waiting on them to tell me what Rezko did wrong. . .

. . .they do have google don't they? But I guess if they tell me what he is charged with then they would have to explain how Obama had anything to do with it.

[leftynyc]

46. Wow - someone didn't jump to answer you

in 9 minutes. Maybe they're not online all day? I didn't answer the poll either - it's a stupid poll.

[wndycty]

48. Not about jumping. . .

. . .the poster and I were going back and forth and then disappeared. Now since you have take up for him or her would you like to share with us Rezko's charges?

[leftynyc]

53. Here's a link to

Patrick Fitzgerald's press release about the indictiment. Knock yourself out and next time you can do your own work.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/pr/chicago/2006/pr1011_01.pdf

[wndycty]

55. I know what Rezko is charged with, I just want to make sure Hillary's supporters know

So as they keep attacking Obama on this, they have some idea on what the actual accusations are.

[jlake]

79. Don't you understand that it is an ongoing investigation and that Obama

has *not* been cleared?

[UALRBSofL]

10. I think it will be a non-issue in the GE

Because it's already out in the open

[jlake]

14. The trial hasn't even started. It is going to be a bombshell - and Obama may be

called as a witness. ..... This story is just beginning. That is NOT to say Obama is guilty of anything - but the Rezko story is far from over.

[wndycty]

16. What evidence do you have that Obama will be called as a witness?

What do you think Obama did wrong? You want to advance the perception he did something wrong, so you might as well tell us what he did wrong.

[jlake]

18. I said that Obama may not have done anything wrong.

Patrick Fitzgerald has confirmed that Obama was one of the "unnamed Chicago politicians" mentioned in his report.
I give it a 95% chance Obama will be called as a witness.

[wndycty]

21. He has not been accused of doing anything wrong. . .

. . .so you have to come a little better than that.

[jlake]

77. You are an absolute idiot. I already said 3 times in this thread that Obama may not have

done anything wrong. Being a witness does not mean you did something wrong.

[wndycty]

80. Are you going to address the charges against Rezko and tell me. . .

. . .how they are relevant to Obama.

[jlake]

81. Obama was named in the report. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

[wndycty]

85. Actually he was not named in the report. . .it was concluded that a politician. .

. . .received contributions from the scheme and there is wide speculation it is Obama. Obama has not been accused of any wrong doing and he is purging Rezko linked contributions. Additionally, Rezko money is not in Obama's presidential fund.

[jlake]

88. The Chicago Tribune reported he was the "unnamed chicago politician"

I did not say Obama *had* been accused of any wrongdoing - but to think it is not possible that he will be is just naive.
He had plenty of Rezko money - he is *still* purging it from his coffers.

[KittyWampus]

23. Fitzgerald DID NOT SUCH THING. You are either a liar or misinformed.

[jlake]

78. Excuse me. You are right The Chicago Union Tribune confirmed it was Obama.

[ieoeja]

86. There is no paper called "Chicago Union-Tribune". n/t

[jlake]

91. The Chicago Tribune.

[KittyWampus]

20. this is the essence of swiftboating. Making some prove every day they are innocent even though

there was never any actual wrong doing.

[wndycty]

22. Exactly, and the poster can't even tell me what the charges were against Rezko. . .

. . .there were charges but the poster has yet to tell me what the charges were.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

9. the RW machine will spend ALL their $$$ to make damn sure it sticks come Nov

[wndycty]

13. I acknowledged that in the OP, nobody is disputing that. . .

. . .my question is if he is the nominee do you want it to stick? Are you pushing it now and if so, will continue pushing it if he is the nominee?

[KittyWampus]

24. and they'll do same about Clintons' Uranium Mine buddy. Clintons haven't released their 2006 taxes

what are they trying to hide?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

27. No - but the Republicans will sure try to make it stick.

Bill and Hillary are NOTHING compared to the r-wingers and swiftboaters.

[wndycty]

29. I acknowledged that in the OP. . .

. . .but what do you think of DUers who keep raising the issue?

[UALRBSofL]

62. I havn't mentioned it at all

But I see a thread started every now and then.

[cooolandrew]

32. K&R

[cd3dem]

33. if he is the nominee, the swiftboaters will make it stick!

[wndycty]

34. Do you think Democrats should aid them in that effort?

:kick:

[cd3dem]

36. I think democrats should take it into consideration instead of sticking their heads up their ass

[wndycty]

38. Is taking it into consideration acting like Obama did something wrong. . .

. . .proclaiming Obama will be called as a witness? What is appropriate when it comes to taking it into consideration?

[cd3dem]

42. people need to know who they are voting for...

the media doesn't want anyone to know about Rezco so we nominate him and they can swiftboat him in the generals...leaving us with 4 more years of republican rule and a Supreme Court so right of center that women will have to throw away their pants and start wearing only dresses again!

[wndycty]

43. The media doesn't want anyone to know about Rezko?

Evidently you don't read the Chicago newspapers. Its obvious to me that there is no there there. What exactly did Obama do wrong. If you we need to know who we are voting for tell me what you know. What has Obama done wrong or been accused of having done wrong?

[cd3dem]

45. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ real estate deals $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

letters written... favors made.... land dealings.....

[wndycty]

50. And explain to me the wrong doing. . .let us know. . .

. . .was the real estate deal illegal? Was writing letters illegal. . .come on now. You sling it now back it up.

[cd3dem]

56. let the swiftboating begin

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2008/02/01/columns/john_brummett/020208brummett.txt

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/01/johannesburg_so.html

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/749138,obama20web.article

[wndycty]

57. Something you are more than happy to do. . .

. . .:kick:

[cd3dem]

66. stop drinking the kool-aid, and wake up and smell the coffee!

[wndycty]

70. Kool Aid? If that is not a drive by comment, I don't know what one is. . .

. . .tell me what Rezko is charged with (I know what he is charged with) and let's discuss. You can make drive by comments or you can actually have a discussion with me about what Rezko is charged with and how Obama is involved.

[cd3dem]

73. google Rezco or read the links... some people have heads of brick and don't want to let anything in

got better things to do than argue with you

[wndycty]

95. It seems like you spent a lot of time arguing with me. . .

LOL

[shayes51]

49. That is my response as well. Never underestimate Republicans.

[wndycty]

54. So should Democrats do the Republicans work for them?

:kick:

[cd3dem]

69. why is Obama hiding from the truth?

are we really so stupid that we think if we don't talk about it they won't either? are we so stupid we think they will be afraid someone will accuse them of using race? my GOD they attacked John Kerry on his Vietnam War service!!!!

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wndycty]

72. What truth is it you are accusing him of hiding from?

:kick:

[rucky]

39. Too late.

It's in play. Hopefully it won't be a dealbreaker for too many people.

They all have stinky stuff that will stick to them.

[wndycty]

40. Yeah but I want to know if the DUers who are pushing it now plan on pushing it. . .

. . .if Obama gets the nomination.

[rucky]

41. I think we need to propose a group amnesia pact after the convention. n/t

[amandabeech]

44. Judges must be concerned with the mere appearance of impropriety, not absolute impropriety itself.

I worked for a judge after law school, and believe me, he really took it seriously.

I cannot hold a presidential candidate to a lesser standard.

Obama came out of Chicago, which has a history of being the most corrupt U.S. city after the perennial winner, New Orleans (this is from a native who was very active there several years ago).

Rezko looks like a fixer and maybe a bagman for the Chicago and Illinois dem machine. I find it impossible to believe that Obama, as smart as he is, didn't realize this and keep his distance as best he could if he was harboring very high political ambitions.

Having any involvement with the likes of Rezko, even if above board, seems like a bone-headed move to me. And the explanations on the home purchase are just far too lawyerlike to really pass the smell test with lots of folks, just like the definition of "is" was. The whole thing could give many folks the impression of impropriety even if nothing illegal, as in quid pro quo, happened.

Don't get me wrong. I'll vote for Obama if he is the nominee, and hope for the best.

[wndycty]

47. Can you tell me what Rezko is charged with. . .

. . . and then point out to me what Obama did wrong.

[amandabeech]

90. Read my post. n/t

[mopinko]

58. this chicago shit is beyond the pale.

for those of you from other parts of the planet, let me tell you something- we are not all crooks here. you are going to have to come up with something a little more substantive than that. i don't think you even know what a bag man is. you are repeating stories from the days of fucking al capone.

[davsand]

67. Gee, does Tammany Hall ring a bell for anybody?

If I'm a crook for being part of Illinois politics, does that mean that anyone from NY is a crook because of the Tammany Hall connection? Hell--everybody KNOWS New York is a hotbed of corruption...

Oh wait--do any of you REALLY want to go there? Thought not.

Mo, you are swimming upstream against the currents of stupidity. I'm not sure it is worth taking the time to even try.



Laura



PS:

You all can kiss my entire fat ass. I live in Illinois, I am in Illinois politics, and I have never taken jack shit from a taxpayer for anything.

[mopinko]

75. always a fart in a windstorm, that's me.

what can i say. i have an honest alderman, too. :shrug:

[amandabeech]

89. I know what a bag man is.

Do you?

Until recently, I had relatives who lived there, and I'm from the midwest.

I'm happy that the place has been cleaned up.

Rezko, however, will be cleaned up soon.

As for anything else, read me post.

[Cameron27]

51. I won't vote in your poll,

but I want everything about Rezko and Obama out now, no matter how innocent or foolish that relationship was. If Obama's the nominee, I don't want to be ambushed by the RW media with the same issues that they're keeping silent about now.

[wndycty]

52. So answer the question, if Obama secures the nomination will keep repeating. . .

. . .the whole Rezko/Obama meme?

[Cameron27]

59. If Obama is the nominee

I hope that no one in our party keeps repeating it, but how do we get the RW media and the GOP candidates from raising the story?

[wndycty]

60. And since we are still in the primary election its acceptable to keep repeating?

:kick:

[Cameron27]

71. I don't know wndy,

I think there are elements to this relationship that just don't jibe with the way that Obama's described it. Rezko goes before Pat Fitzgerald in a few weeks, so maybe more facts will come out then. Whether it's fair or not, I can't see the story dying down while the trial's in progress.

[wndycty]

98. Do you really believe that Fitzgerald is going after Obama?

He is going after my old boss, the Governor (I resigned from the administration in May to go back into consulting) Obama is not a target the Governor is.

[awaysidetraveler]

103. Hey! I'm super curious about this, and I do think that Fitzgerald is going after Obama!

The triangulation is uncanny: St. Eves/Fitzgerald/General Electric Capital Corporation.

Check out what I have so far.


http://journals.democraticunderground.com/awaysidetraveler/16

What makes you think that he's going after the governor alone? I think that Fitzgerald and St. Eves are neocon fascists,
and I think their power agenda puts Obama in their sights. GE has billions to lose and nothing to gain from an Obama presidency,
Fitzgerald's role in containing state secrets is not minor and may be illegal should Bush be impeached.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that--despite all the media says--Antoin Rezko is innocent.

[wndycty]

104. This whole investigation started because the Governor's father-in-law

Who is a Chicago alderman accused the Governor's advisers of selling jobs for contributions. They looked at a ton of his folks, including some of my co-workers who were never charged. The targets of all the investigations have never been a secret, believe me if Obama were a target we would know.

[awaysidetraveler]

106. That's unusual... I'm certainly having trouble identifying the targets in the indictment.

Individual A through N and so forth.... I've never seen this kind of indictment,
usually prosecutors are clearer about whom they're indicting.

The allegations against Rezko stem from one Stewart Levine.

Levine was caught, it seemed, in a scandal about skimming money from a teacher's retirement fund.
Rezko's lawyer claims that Levine is the only material witness against Rezko.
I can't find any other witnesses for the prosecution, though I do see a prosecutorial legal cartwheels
designed to reinforce the statments of Levine as a witness.

The original indictment against Rezko calls the victim General Electric Capital Corporation, but the stories
I'm reading make no connection between Levine and GECC. When will this connection materialize?

Also, the timing of this trial is more than slightly suspect. It's being timed to coincide with
Obama's election, meaning that it will loom like a specter over the campaign.

I have no story I can piece together from the entire Antoin Rezko fraud case,
and the longer I look into it the more convoluded the existing story appears to be.

As it stands, we are told to believe that Rezko--a man who had 3.5 million dollars sent in a wire to him several months ago
from Lebanon, a man who was seen hanging out with the Emir of Qatar in Springfield, IL as he gave a million dollars to the Lincoln museum there, a man who GECC loaned more than 10.5 million dollars for pizza businesses--was involved in small-time kickbacks from this TRS scam that netted a few hundred thousand dollars.

It just doesn't sound right, but let's say that it's true that this incredibly wealthy man liked fraud for whatever crooked business reason. Why then did he come back to face the charges? I mean, so he's got 3.5 million waiting in a Lebanese bank and he gets busted while he's in Syria. Why come back to Chicago? The newspapers all knew about the indictment, so doesn't it follow that Rezko also knew?

[awaysidetraveler]

107. Sorry to bug, any idea who Christopher Kelly's sister is?

It wouldn't be Jean Kelly, would it?

[mopinko]

61. start by getting the dems to knock it off.

wndy and i are not always on the same side, but he is hitting it on the head here. people don't even know what the fuck they are talking about.

[wndycty]

63. Thank you dear. . .

What did you think of the arrests in the 50th ward last week? Berny is in trouble! LOL

I might as well take advantage of the "mowndy" unity while it lasts ;)

[mopinko]

74. yeah, i heard it was ugly over dere.

bernie, bernie. 'bout time to hand it over to his daughter, maybe. i always wonder, tho, why some people get cracked and others don't. :shrug: lotta room for tomfoolery in that absentee business. and this whole early voting sorta gives me the willies. touch screens and all that. had to do it myself this time, and i grumbled the whole time. too much room for funny business. everyone around here thinks i'm crazy, tho, cuz david orr is a local saint.
glad i live in 49 is all i can say. good bunch of folks up here, and joe moore is a good guy. some lyin' ass bloggers, tho. holy moley. the challenge to our election was a joke, but still, the guy is tainted. so, yeah, i see your point exactly on this thread. throw enough shit.....

[wndycty]

82. Those guys are looking at 2-5 years. . .LOL

I was at their bond hearing and smiled as I saw them appear on the video monitor from the holding cell.

[mopinko]

84. poor naisy

these guys think hilly has it bad....
i hear she is thinking of running again next time.

[wndycty]

87. We never stopped running. . .

. . .she is knocking on doors for Ira and running as an Obama delegate. The Sun-Times even wrote that Naisy and Berny will have a showdown tomorrow (that was back in the summer) Stone is running as a Hillary delegate.

[mopinko]

92. bwahahaha

that's good. i hope she kicks his big ass.

[wndycty]

94. Even funnier Daley has asked Stone to step down as vice mayor

:kick:

[mopinko]

96. he's the vice mayor?

i guess cuz he is the oldest old coot? this last election was great, seeing so many of these old fossils put out to pasture. (and seeing joe hang on in a tough, ugly contest.) hopefully next time around will be even better. and thank you howard dean for that, actually. between dfa and seiu, which got very political backing howard, i would say that he deserves some credit. you just never know what is going to happen when people show up.

[wndycty]

100. Yes its a ceremonial position but has two staffers (Stone cronies)

So its funny watching those two folks being let go, they were evil folks.

[mopinko]

64. yeah, how dare that obama

stick up for a guy trying to build affordable housing in a blighted neighborhood. the nerve.
thanks for this thread, wndy. these idiots are making me :puke: i'd like to pile them on a bus and take them on a drive through kenwood and oaklawn, and see what rezko was trying to do. me, i wonder how much of this case is manufactured as it is. i know that things ended up badly, but someone trying to take on what he took on cannot be thinking they are gonna get rich, unless they are out of their minds. it'll be interesting.

[kelligesq]

65. soon as he was Sen. he bought house for 1 mil$-but got 300,000 reduction - I

want to know how he did that...cause it sure is a good trick

[wndycty]

68. Do you know how large of an advance he got on his book?

About a million.

[mopinko]

83. you don't know because, i assume,

you have never been to kenwood. and it was $1.65 mil, iirc. it's called asking vs getting. that's the way real estate works. kenwood is a decent neighborhood on the edge of some of chicago's most blighted areas, places that burned in the 60's and never came back. once upon a time, tho, it was home to the very rich. full of beautiful old houses, mansions, gorgeous old greystones, and next to hyde park, home of the university of chicago. so, it has had an anchor, but still, from block to block, it is night and day.
but we have what ya call a democratic administration here, and even those areas are starting to feel the boom. areas like this are places where people can buy a lot of house for the money. it all depends on how you feel about having poor brown neighbors. and in chicago, lots of people don't have a problem with that. but apparently not too many of them wanted this house. it sat on the market for a while. which usually means that the seller will take less than asking. and the only reason rezko was part of the deal is that the seller wanted to sell the adjacent lot with it. now, if i found the house of my dreams, but didn't want to buy that lot, and i knew someone who was a developer, i would call them up. wouldn't you?

[ieoeja]

93. Do the math.

Asking price = 1,650,000
Sell price = 1,350,000
Difference = 300,000 / 1,650,000 = 18%

Homes typically sell for 10-15% less than the asking price. Seller in this case came down only slightly more than typical. It was a good deal, but not a great deal.

[ErnestoG]

97. Good post - notice none of them have the honesty to answer it

[wndycty]

101. Yup

:kick:

[Little Star]

102. This poll is flame Bait and I will not play.