Edwards voter request to Hillbots

[Yael]

Guys, I have tried to let this go, but it set me off in the 1990s and I can't seem to shake it loose.

No, this isn't about Bill -- this is about Hillary.

Billy Dale was hired by the Jack Kennedy Administration to run the travel office. He and his staff worked through 32 years of D/R administrations and were very reputable and popular.

Any administration has the right to fire any staff and instill their own, but Camp Clinton (lead by Hillary) didn't take that approach because it wasn't popular or expedient at the time -- so they falsely framed Dale with trumped up graft charges (case which he won, but at GREAT personal cost) because they wanted their own (Hollyweird connected) people on the job.

Help me get past this.

This is not a "RW talking point" or Vince Fostering" -- so if that is your response, save it. I am over 40 and actually paid attention during those years and have grave concerns relating to her integrity going back over 15 years now -- and have a niggling feeling that I can't escape.

(Full disclosure -- I am also an Edwards democrat, to this isn't about my primary vote -- it is because I need to move past this in the off chance she is our nom and I am struggling with it).

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. You may not have noticed, but there were congressional hearings

And it wasn't a political decision. Simple mismanagement that was dealt with by internal WH procedures.

[Yael]

3. Those hearings vindicated Dale and said that Hillary's testimony was

"dishonest".

I lived throught those years and remember it well.

[Fredda Weinberg]

5. And I challenge you on that quote ... factually incorrect is not dishonest n/t

[Yael]

8. Telling me that I am "factually incorrect" doesn't erase that I LIVED through the

controversy and (at this point) wouldn't trust a Clinton any farther than I could throw one of them.

I am asking you to HELP me with this -- not berate me for not getting in line and goose stepping behind your preferred.

Make sense?

[Fredda Weinberg]

10. I posted the applicable quotes above. All I want is truth here n/t

[Yael]

13. What applicable quotes, where?

you linked a transcript -- that doesn't answer WHY Hillary did what she did.

[Fredda Weinberg]

16. You say Ray found her dishonest ... but these are the quotes that

generated your accusation. There's no there there ... what you apparently remember is the right wing spin cycle.

[Cassandra]

2. Not a Hillbot but...

it is my understanding that there were thousands of dollars of unused tickets in the desk drawers, and also that the old travel office had a too cozy relationship with the press whose tickets they booked. Not graft but not great.

[Yael]

4. They accused the man of pocketing money, not mismanagement (wnat he was charged with and later

exhonorated from).

Do you recall the hearings?

[Fredda Weinberg]

6. And if anybody actually cares about the truth ... here's the nub

Actual quotes from the transcripts ... and honestly, you'll laugh

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9805EFD6153EF93AA25753C1A9669C8B63

[Yael]

9. Read it, lived it. Hillary was signed off on as "dishonest" while Dale was

let off the hook as falsely sccused.

[Fredda Weinberg]

12. You keep putting a word in quotes ... what's your source? n/t

[Yael]

19. Sister -- I LIVED through it.

Remember it as if it was yesterday.

Dale was accused of graft. He went to trial and was vindicated. Hillary's statements were noted as "innacurate".

Do you dispute this?

If so, say so (as opposed to the spin) and I will be happy to google up the news accounts of the outcome.

I am asking for your fucking HELP here in case she is our nom and I need to get behind her -- and what I am getting is "fuck you".

Help me understand that.

[cooolandrew]

7. When something feels good it gives you goosebumps for me the Obama capaign does that...

...I can't say similar for the HRC camapign and also as you the doubts left from the 90s and the DLC movement.

[BlackVelvet04]

11. Turning the heat up will fix those goosebumps. n/t

[lisainmilo]

14. Thus, my emphasis on not voting for Edwards tommorrow but Obama

Do you want the status quo? I really think you don't, not if you are an Edwardian like me. Obama really takes these problems head on! He is the new candidate standing for change. Link to his site: issues

Just food for thought. :)

[Fredda Weinberg]

17. And you think travelgate was about the Clintons? Wait 'till they have

your candidate for lunch.

[Yael]

20. Lisa, please don't derail my thread with your shit.

Thanks.

[lisainmilo]

29. I'm Sorry :-( n/t

[Yael]

31. Appreciate it.

I really want answers on this one.

No offense intended.

[KennedyGuy]

15. Thats it? Billy Dale..thats the ONE issue you can't leave behind?

Riiiiiight....sure it is...

[Yael]

21. So you also have no answer

Well, thanks for saying hello.

YES, I have an issue with this. Be part of the problem or part of the solution. Reread the OP.

[ErnestoG]

22. I've come to expect this from the Shills. They are long on insult and invective,

short on facts.

[Yael]

25. Dammit -- all I am asking them to do is help me understand

How is that a crime al of a sudden?

[KennedyGuy]

24. Another satisfied Rush listener...

Billy Dale...
are you a travel agent?
Even Hannity has moved on from that..we're into tears now...try to keep up.

[Yael]

26. WTF are you talking about?

I am ASKING you all to fucking HELP me support your candidate in the offchance she is my nominee -- and telling you why I have reservations.

Rather than address them, you attack over it?

[BlackVelvet04]

18. What is it you want us to do for you?

You've made up your mind who is right and who is wrong. So, just what is it you want?

[Yael]

23. I have never heard from Camp Clinton on this.

The only thing is "old news" so "don't bother".

Some of us don't classify character questions (why not just fire them as opposed to setting up this ruse) as insignificant.

Look -- she isn't my candidate, but she may be my nominee. Wopuld you prefer that I sign up on FR and ask them to help me sort it?

Damn people -- quit eating your own. HELP us understand.

[BlackVelvet04]

27. I don't know what's inside her head and heart...

I can't help you understand. Nobody can. No candidate is perfect. People fuck up. Life goes on. I support Hillary in spite of her shortcomings not because I don't think she has any.

[Yael]

28. BlackVelvet -- I appreciate this

It is an unanswered question that I need answered.

I appreciate that she dosen't want to talk about this as it is "old", but there are those of us who call her integrity into question over it and that can't be erased with campaign slogans.

Thanks for being the first on this thread to actually ADDRESS my concerns with a reasonable response.

[BlackVelvet04]

30. You're welcome....

I'm sorry it bothers you. I really am....there are no perfect politicians or people. If you dig you will find dirt on all of them...yes, Obama has a lot out there that hasn't made national news. I don't say that to slam him, it's just a fact. Hillary comes with baggage, but we all do. Just like the people we love we have to decide to take someone warts and all.

Good luck on your decision.

[Yael]

33. Thank you again, BV

As noted, I have pledged my primary vote to Edwards. I am now in the position of personally 'vetting' O & C and so many Clinton skeletons are resurfacing in my pea-brain. I have to balance this with the "been there, done it" experience thing, so am just airing out among "friends".

Hopefully will find someone (here or offline) discuss this with me and give me a comfort level.

:hi:

[BlackVelvet04]

35. That's the problem, dear.

Obama hasn't been vetted. Here is an example of what's to come: http://www.obamatruth.org/

Is it true? I just had it brought to my attention so I don't know, but it's effective and the obama camp is NOT ready for it.

You're welcome.

[Yael]

36. I saw that over the weekend. Not pretty at all.

I WANT to get behind our candidate -- which is why I am reaching out for help to wrap my mind around Hillary of she is the nom.

Thanks for your feedback on this thread.

Best of luck tomorrow!

[TheDeathadder]

32. I wasn't able to take it your point at all...

because you had to start it off with Hillbots. Shame because it looks like you put effort into the rest of it, you should have started off with a bit more etiquette.

[Yael]

34. Welcome to the list

I am *TRYING* to get my mind around supporting your candidate. Good job in (not)advancing that cause.

[TheDeathadder]

37. If you're calling HRC Supporters Hillbots

chances are you aren't trying to think open mindedly about supporting Hillary Clinton. For about a month now the Hillary people have been telling DU about a thousand times that we didn't like being called Hillbots.

Not to mention did I really do anything to deserve putting my on *The List*? You know using the word Hillbots is a way of putting you on a list, but that's not what I'm going to do. I look for reasons and I debate on strengths of a candidate not slander. If you want to put me on a list, put me on one.

Starting off your post by calling HRC supporters Hillbots is not a point to be discussed. It's not the type of etiquette that would let the Hillary Clinton supporters know that you are open minded about how you look at Clinton as the term Hillbots has been used over and over again as slander.

So thanks for welcoming me to the list. I feel so unified now.